Circumcision Lawsuit Unites Haredi Groups

"The intention of the mayor is to stop metzitzah b'peh in any way he can. Parents are deciding not to go with a mohel [for the bris] because parents think 'mohels kill babies,'" he said. "Painful myths have arisen from these regulations, that we don't care about our children in order to protect our customs. It goes without saying that we care about each of our children."

Lawsuit Unites Jewish Groups
Activists representing Satmar, Chabad and Agudah held an urgent press conference this week with the major frum media outlets.
COLlive

A press conference was held this week at Yeshiva Torah Vodaas in Brooklyn where the urgency of the subject matter was perhaps more emphasized by the ones who participated than by what they said.

Lined up were a rare and wide-ranging representation of Agudath Israel of America, Central Rabbincal Congress of the USA and Canada (Satmar) and the Lubavitch-affiliated International Bris Association.

"Today is historic, and not in a good way," attorney Yerachmiel Simins told the major frum news outlets that were invited in addition to COLlive.com - Mishpacha, Hamodia, Yated, Der Blatt, Der Yid, Chabad.org, Yeshiva World News, VIN and Kol Mevaser.

"It is historic because Satmar, Agudah and Lubavitch have joined hands to fight this," he said in reference to a lawsuit filed against New York City Department of Health (DOH) to stop its regulations on the Jewish tradition of performing circumcision on an 8-day-old.

As reported on COLlive.com, the suit argues that the DOH is attempting to discourage the practice known as metzitzah b'peh (MBP) by requiring mohelim to distribute a form stating that MBP can lead to serious health risks.

That regulation violates both the rights to free speech and freedom of religion, argue the three organizations who filed the suit with plaintiffs Rabbi Samuel Blum, Rabbi Aharon Leiman and Rabbi Shloime Eichenstein.

Simins, who was involved in the 2006 Circumcision Protocol with the NY State Health Department, said "this also marks the first only frum media press conference," noting that the Jewish media is stronger now than ever, and can help in the fight against these regulations.

"This lawsuit is an extraordinary step after other measures were taken but did not help in stopping these new regulations," he said, and accused Mayor Michael Bloomberg of helping spread misinformation about the long-held Jewish practice.

Simins said this regulation is but the first step in the Mayor's plan to stop metzitzah B'peh altogether, and has had a vastly negative impact on the custom already.

"The intention of the mayor is to stop metzitzah b'peh in any way he can. Parents are deciding not to go with a mohel [for the bris] because parents think 'mohels kill babies,'" he said. "Painful myths have arisen from these regulations, that we don't care about our children in order to protect our customs. It goes without saying that we care about each of our children."

The lawsuit is supported by affidavits from experts in infectious diseases, epidemiology and statistical analysis that question the assessment and methodology of the DOH in forming its opinion about the safety of MBP.

"We need to get this out to the public and dispel the myths that are out there," said Rabbi Levi Heber, a Crown Heights resident and head of the Bris Association. "What they are demanding of us would be an infringement on Jewish practice of yiddishkeit, not just bris milah."

The suit argues that "the government cannot compel the transmission of messages that the speaker does not want to express—especially when the speaker is operating in an area of heightened First Amendment protection, such as a religious ritual."

Dr. Daniel S. Berman, an adult infectious diseases specialist who has been tirelessly fighting the Department of Health and the Medical community on this issue for 7 years, questioned the validity and motivations of opinions by many in the medical community who claim metzitzah b'peh is dangerous.

He suggests anti-religious bias as a significant factor in their conclusions and in the actions of the DOH.

Joining his assertion that the DOH's data is flawed was Dr. Brenda Breuer, an epidemiologist at Beth Israel Medical Center, who said "the report purported to identify 5 cases over nearly 6 years of infants who were suspected to have undergone mbp and later developed HSV infection."

Breuer said the reports used were outdated and used inaccurate data, and that "they used the wrong formula. The formula they used unjustifiably increased the results. Had they used the correct formula, the results may not have reflected that. And If only one of the five cases had been wrong, then even their own formula would not have supported the findings."

The amendment from the Board of Health states "to require written consent from a parent or legal guardian when direct oral suction will be performed during his or her son's circumcision." The amendment also states that the Mohel must inform the parents that "the Department advises against direct oral suction because of certain risks associated with the practice, including infection with herpes."

The plaintiffs say the amendment violates freedom of speech because it forces the mohel to declare something which they completely disagree with.

Rabbi Gedaliah Weinberger, Chairman of the Board of Agudas Israel, stated, "You may ask, 'what's the big deal? All they are asking for is a consent form.' The problem is that it not only intrudes on our religious practice, but it intrudes on our religious decision making. Already it has had a damaging impact."

1. To be clear, Dr. Brenda Breuer is not a medical doctor. She is an Orthodox Ph.D. who teaches at Yeshiva University's medical school. She specializes in palliative care but has written widely on other medical topics, including hepatitis.

2. Daniel Berman is a wholly dishonest man who practices at a small community hospital. He is not an expert in pediatric infectious diseases.

 

Comments

[Jack]

Parents are deciding not to go with a mohel [for the bris] because parents think 'mohels kill babies,'" he said.

This is nonsense since if the mohel will not perform MBP no document has to be shown or signed so I fail to see how it will dissuade someone from having a bris for their child if no MBP is to be done.

[Adam Neira]

THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY from this report...

THE GOOD

- "It is historic because Satmar, Agudah and Lubavitch have joined hands..."

Strange days indeed. Groups who hated each other previously now joining hands yet on the wrong issue. Oh well, two steps forward, one step back on the Redemption timeline. (Pity it can't be faster. Alas such is the nature of denial and cognitive dissonance.)

- "The DOH is attempting to discourage the practice known as metzitzah b'peh (MBP)"

THE BAD

"...to fight this."

THE UGLY

- Rabbi Levi Heber, a Crown Heights resident and head of the Bris Association. "What they are demanding of us would be an infringement on Jewish practice of yiddishkeit, not just bris milah."

Rabbi Heber and his ilk are using the anti-semitic argument to paint opponents of MBP. Cheap and nasty tactic. Also the issue of bris milah is not in question. Certain people are being disingenuous and are making the waters murky on purpose.

- Rabbi Gedaliah Weinberger, Chairman of the Board of Agudas Israel, stated, "You may ask, 'what's the big deal? All they are asking for is a consent form.' The problem is that it not only intrudes on our religious practice, but it intrudes on our religious decision making. Already it has had a damaging impact."

Rubbish !

If you go to a dentist to get an implant you sign a consent form to acknowledge your understanding of the risks involved. Ditto decent driving and skydiving schools. Why shouldn’t people be aware of the risks of certain courses of action, especially the health of their newborn ? Again, the rights of children have been neglected since Noah was a boy.

Final scene at the MBP Corral coming up ? Who will play Lee van Cleef ?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9etarIaqF1Y

[RebMendel]

Bllomberg is like a rodef why does he aflict us so? If he wins again obama will be evenworse watch and see he too wll attack us for obeying our customs.

[Adam Neira]

To RebMendel,

Some rabbis called Rabin a rodef and look what happened. Careful...

[RebMendel]

If they can stop us on this what is next? Do goyim get to tell us how to run our bais din or when to light candles on shabos or not to light candles?

The only answer is to fight now on everything and pray to hashem that the agge of the moshiach will arrive soon!

[SMR]

I have to sign a waiver when my kids goes on a Yeshiva field trip.

What's wrong with parents signing a waiver before subjecting their newborn to something potentially dangerous (and not halachically binding). No one (including Bloomberg) is suggesting that MBP be banned.

As far as "pick your battles" goes, the Haredim have badly miscalculated on this one.

[Adam Neira]

To Reb Mendel,

Your candle reference reminded me of something I saw a few years ago...

REAL ADS IN JEWISH SINGLES SECTION OF a USA NEWSPAPER

- Divorced Jewish man, seeks partner to attend shul with, light shabbos candles, celebrate holidays, build Sukkah together, attend brisses, bar mitzvahs. Religion not important.

- Sincere rabbinical student, 27. Enjoys Yom Kippur, Tisha B'av, Taanis Esther, Tzom Gedaliah, Asarah B'Teves, Shiva Asar B'Tammuz. Seeks companion for living life in the "fast" lane.

- Yeshiva bochur, Torah scholar, long beard, payos. Seeks same in woman.

- Nice Jewish guy, 38. No skeletons. No baggage. No personality.

- Female graduate student, studying kaballah, Zohar, exorcism of dybbuks, seeks mensch. No weirdos, please.

- Staunch Jewish feminist, wears tzitzis, seeking male who will accept my independence, although you probably will not. Oh, just forget it.

- Jewish businessman, 49, manufactures Sabbath candles, Chanukah candles, havdallah candles, Yahrzeit candles. Seeks non-smoker.

[S.]

I think part of the worry is that the rank and file masses will think twice about MBP and unilaterally begin omitting it from the brisim they make. It's one thing to "hear" there is a risk - another to have to sign an official form stating you acknowledge the risk and accept it.

IOW they fear that consent forms will empower people to NOT consent.

[Deremes]

It must be said that in the eyes of those secular Jews(not all)any orthodox Jew is a liar and a thief.Orthodox and lie goes synonyms in their thinking.
This was well known during ww2 when Jews were REALLY killed in the millions rabbi Weissmandel zt'l in one of the letters he sent to secular Jews begging to help at first they said they don't know who this man is but he seems to be orthodox becuase on top of letter he writes "B'H" therefore they don't believe him.So a doctor who is orthodox being called a liar is not becuase what they say but ONLY becuase of being orthodox.

Question:
Why would orthodox rabbis prefer killing babies?

Also,have any of you who are "concerned" that mbp "kill" babies read the book "Unaccountable: What Hospitals Won’t Tell You and How Transparency Can Revolutionize Health Care" by Dr.Martin Makary?
Boy does he tell horror stories about Bad doctors. Prescription errors. Surgical slips. Medical mistakes injure or kill hundreds of thousands of Americans every year. Why patients are kept in the dark.
Or maybe he "lies" like Dr Berman.
After reading some excerpts it will be normal to sign a consent before entering a hospital,ha Bloomberg?
Check it out in Newsweek magazine.

[Jeff]

IOW they fear that consent forms will empower people to NOT consent.

One can only hope.

[Alter Kocker]

Wanna stop MBP?

Add a codicil to the civil laws regarding mohelim. Only mohels inflicted with Parkinson's disease can practice MBP. The children may still be infected, but then again there will likely be less males in a few years.

[jancsibacsi]

RebMendel --You are the biggest affliction of them all you mentally deranged idiot.

[AztecQueen2000]

Deremes--I've had to sign a consent form every time I was treated for anything in a hospital (2 births, one car accident.) So, yes, I think this law IS reasonable.

[Shmarya]

t must be said that in the eyes of those secular Jews(not all)any orthodox Jew is a liar and a thief.Orthodox and lie goes synonyms in their thinking.
This was well known during ww2 when Jews were REALLY killed in the millions rabbi Weissmandel zt'l in one of the letters he sent to secular Jews begging to help at first they said they don't know who this man is but he seems to be orthodox becuase on top of letter he writes "B'H" therefore they don't believe him.So a doctor who is orthodox being called a liar is not becuase what they say but ONLY becuase of being orthodox.…

Posted by: Deremes | October 25, 2012 at 11:49 AM

You disgusting, lying, Satmar imbecile.

You're not even smart enough to lie well.

Anyone can follow the LINK in my post and can hear Berman lie with their own ears.

I hope your rot in hell, you disgusting Satmar piece of trash who lies in order to let his rabbis continue to sicken and kill innocent babies.

And the rest of what you wrote? Complete BS.

And even if your very weak grasp of it were true, would that in any way justify or permit rabbis to endanger babies by sucking their bleeding penises?

Of course not.

But as I've pointed out before, logic and Satmar do not go hand in hand, and ethics and Satmar do not go hand in hand.

It isn't just that you're primitive, shoteh. So called primitive people when shown that something they do is a risk to health and life stop usually doing it. They may be primitive in terms of modern education and scientific knowledge, but they are not immoral, unethical, liars or stupid.

On the other hand, Satmar is all of those things.

You and your rabbis kill babies, Deremes.

I hope you rot for all eternity.

[Sarek]

Could this be death by 1,000 cuts?

[Yochanan Lavie]

Apologies to:

Boston — (Peace Of Mind):

Now if you're feelin' kinda holy 'bout the Jews who've been praying
Politicians in a row-
And they wanna run but the campaign's dismayin'
Can't decide on whom they should blow
Yeah, yeah, yeah

Chorus:
I understand about circumcision
But I don't want a mohel who's blind
People livin' with a dick incision
All I want is to have a piece of mine.

Now you're schnorring for the vote of a rabbinic leader
Hope he doesn't clip your schlong
Can't you see the mohel wants to drink a liter
He thinks legislation is wrong

Chorus.

Clip a little head, clip a little head, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah... oy!

Now every rabbi's got bloc votes they just keep on givin'
Doesn't mean that it's for free
Lot's of Yidden like the make-believe fabrengen
Can't decide ballot entries.

Chorus

Clip a little head, clip a little head. Little head.

[Barry]

Deremes, if it is so safe, why do Satmar say the following after a bris?

"May He who blessed our fathers, Yoelish
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Moses and Aaron, David and Solomon, bless this tender infant (name) the son of (name) because (name) the son of (name)pledged for his sake to the Teitelbaum's Zurich based numbered bank account. In this merit, may the Holy One, blessed be He, hasten to send a complete recovery to all his two hundred forty-eight bodily parts and three hundred sixty-five veins, and raise him to Torah, to marriage, and to Otisville; and let us say, Amen"

[shoshy]

It seems they keep harping on the statistical aspect of it. They don't seem to relate at all to the argument that everything we know about disease transmission indicates this is a dangerous practice. You don't have to wait for people to die to take reasonable precautions against a deadly disease. And why do they keep talking about 5 cases? The CDC study discussed 11 cases.

[Jeff]

Posted by: Yochanan Lavie | October 25, 2012 at 01:29 PM

One of your best, I think. (Maybe it's just because I know the song this time!)

[danny]

Yochanan is a chucham and a poet!

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thanks Danny & Jeff.

[MM]

Deremes, of course people are not kept in the dark about all the therapeutic misadventures you list. If people were in the dark about such things there would be no medical malpractice suits and doctors would not be paying high premiums for medical malpractice insurance. People know very well about such things (they are an tv which perhaps you don't watch, both on the news and on ads from personal injury law firms). However, there are PLENTY of (successful) malpractice suits, both on behalf of individuals and as class actions.

The plain fact is that informed consent is required for ANY procedure performed on the body. Not long ago I had to have an examination that was purely visual, nothing whatsoever even touched any part of my body. The only thing that was unusual about it was that the exam was performed using an additional light source and a magnifying lens. And I had to sign a consent form that listed all kinds of risks that were in this case entirely nonexistent, since no one ever had an ill effect or died from being examined with a strong light (just a regular incandescent light, not a laser or anything out of the ordinary) and a magnifying lens. So I signed (big deal!), had the exam, everything was fine. End of story.

All of this carrying on is in aid of an agenda that has nothing to do with either freedom of religion or freedom of speech.

[Abracadabra]

Yochanan - I don't know the song this time, but I read some of your other songs on other posts recently that were great! You're a genius!

[Abracadabra]

Barry - LOL!

[shoshy]

I'm surprised they let a woman speak in public. And sit up on the dais! What is this world coming to?

[kyle]

Shut the fuck up, you skanky ho

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thanks, Abra.

[Runner1983]

A primary Jewish value is to do no harm. MBP is in violation of this primary Jewish value. How much harm would an infant need to be exposed to before the haredi rabbis would stop the practice? One death in 1,000? Ten deaths in 1,000? One hundred deaths in 1,000? Just because a practice has been in existence for thousands of years doesn't mean it should continue, if modern medical science finds that it is hazardous.

[Runner1983]

One of the prime tenets of Judaism is to do no harm. MBP is a non-sanitary ritual, and it should be obvious to everyone it is something that exposes an infant to unnecessary risk. When it comes to the health of a child, you error on the safe side. I don't know what the rabbis are practicing by insisting that this ritual not be questioned, but its not Judaism.