'Filmmaker' Who Sparked Middle East Violence Defiant

This is a political movie," said [Sam] Bacile. "The U.S. lost a lot of money and a lot of people in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we're fighting with ideas." Bacile, a California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew [but who is not – please see below], said he believes the movie will help his native land by exposing Islam's flaws to the world. "Islam is a cancer, period," he said repeatedly, his solemn voice thickly accented.

 

The AP spoke with the Israeli-American real estate developer/'filmmaker' who made the film Innocence of Muslims, a low budget D movie (calling it a B movie denigrates all the drive in movies and triple feature specials many of our older readers watched in their youth) that had no play anywhere and which has been shown in a theater exactly one time – and that showing was apparently paid for by the film's producers.

The film spaked riots in Egypt and Libya, killing the US Ambassador to Libya and three other US staffers.

From the AP's talk with Sam Bacile and a "consultant" on the film, Steve Klein, it is clear Bacile knew the film would spark violence – but he didn't care:

…Speaking by phone from an undisclosed location, writer and director Sam Bacile remained defiant, saying Islam is a cancer and that the 56-year-old intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.…

"This is a political movie," said Bacile. "The U.S. lost a lot of money and a lot of people in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we're fighting with ideas."

Bacile, a California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, said he believes the movie will help his native land by exposing Islam's flaws to the world.

"Islam is a cancer, period," he said repeatedly, his solemn voice thickly accented.

The two-hour movie, "Innocence of Muslims," cost $5 million to make and was financed with the help of more than 100 Jewish donors, said Bacile, who wrote and directed it.

The film claims Muhammad was a fraud. An English-language 13-minute trailer on YouTube shows an amateur cast performing a wooden dialogue of insults disguised as revelations about Muhammad, whose obedient followers are presented as a cadre of goons.

It depicts Muhammad as a feckless philanderer who approved of child sexual abuse, among other overtly insulting claims that have caused outrage.…

Though Bacile was apologetic about the American who was killed as a result of the outrage over his film, he blamed lax embassy security and the perpetrators of the violence.

"I feel the security system (at the embassies) is no good," said Bacile. "America should do something to change it."

A consultant on the film, Steve Klein, said the filmmaker is concerned for family members who live in Egypt. Bacile declined to confirm.

Klein said he vowed to help Bacile make the movie but warned him that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.

"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.…

Nothing would have happened, however, except that Terry Jones, the Koran-burning pastor from Florida, began to promote the film.

Whether Bacile, who is allegedly in hiding, contacted Jones and encouraged him to promote the film, or if Jones found it on his own, is not clear.

Nothing justifies the riots or the murders of the US Ambassador and his three members of hus staff, and we all need to stand up for honest, good, fair attempts to report or depict the truth of any issue.

But there is a difference between that and propaganda, and this film is very bad propaganda that is reminiscent of Nazi propaganda films made against Jews and others

Update 1:46 am CDT 9-13-2012 – Bacile isn't Jewish, he's a Coptic Christian and a convicted felon, as the AP is now reporting.

Comments

[Steven]

If your film, book, cartoon or burning is going to cause innocent casualties then I think it better not to annoy these animals.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

OMG, Shmarya, I was holding my breath to see how you would blame all the violence on the filmmaker, until you finally stated that nothing justifies the violence, and that we need to stand up for honest good fair attempts to portray the truth.

Wow.

But I will add, that we need to stand up for ALL freedom of speech. Anyone has a right to say anything they want.

If you're only going to stand up for "the truth" but not for "propoganda", who's to say what is "the truth" and what is "propoganda". The haredim say that everything on FM is antisemitic propaganda. You say its the truth. Who's to decide?

That is why it is important to stand up for ALL freedom of speech, even if you feel it's not the truth. Otherwise, someone one day will come along one day and declare FM a vile propaganda "reminiscent of Nazi propaganda films made against Jews and others", and try to ban you.

[The Anti-Schmendrick]

Did Jews riot when Ben-Hur hit the theaters, or even when that Mel Gibson dreck film appeared? Did Christians riot when any of a number of TV shows or films with priests or ministers depicted negatively appear?

This film is total garbage. D for Dreck is a compliment. It is an F for Failure and for everything else that F stands for.

If it were made about Chabad and the Rebbe(chas vesholom), I would watch it in the bathroom, laugh my head off and say, ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu that someone had to go this low to mock my beliefs. If Muslims were sane, they'd do the same. However, they know the premise of this movie is true, even if it is of the quality of a 1970s elementary school filmstrip.

Islam is a threat to mankind. Wherever there is Islam, there is terror. Unlike the last great world threat, Communism, which denied Hashem, Islam reshapes Hashem into a disgusting and bloodthirsty idol.

It, too, will fall.

[Garnel Ironheart]

They can insult everyone else. No one can insult them. They can declare that all other religions are false. No one can question theirs. They can attack and kill who they want but no one better touch them.
What a great culture.

[mendel]

Lubavitchers are Christians
Do you maintain the same for us Lubavitchers

[Sarek]

Massive Fail for all. Fail for the schmuck filmmaker for creating such insulting dreck. And Fail for the rioters who know only violence when they feel insulted, not to mention ignoring freedom of speech.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Lubavitchers are Christians
Do you maintain the same for us Lubavitchers

Posted by: mendel | September 12, 2012 at 09:28 AM

I'm not sure what you refer to. If you question whether you have the right to free speech, OF COURSE!! You have the right to do whatever you want, including worshipping a dead man, like Christians. And I have a right to point that out to.

Which is all I do. Point out that you worship a dead man, like Christians. Is that ok? Do I have the freedom of speech to point that out?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Freedom of Speech when it's someone else in harm's way? Another reason for Americans to be pissed off at Israel and Israelis.

And Romney wants us to go to war with Iran and Syria. Let him send his sons there first. Americans no longer want their sons and daughters dying on behalf of Israel. Just ask the family of the man who was killed at the embassy.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

The real story in this entire protest is that at the Cairo embassy protest, the US Embassy released the following statement:

“We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.”

Can you f***** belive it? Our government is saying that it rejects free speech if it offends others?

This is what happens when our President tramples on the constitution. Trickle down tyranny. If we don't stop them now, the day will come when we will realize that its too late.

[nachos]

Speaking of free speech, I love the sign right next to the shul in Postville that claims that all Jewish men in Postville are sexist pigs. Gotta love that free speech.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Freedom of Speech when it's someone else in harm's way? Another reason for Americans to be pissed off at Israel and Israelis.

Just ask the family of the man who was killed at the embassy.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 12, 2012 at 09:54 AM

Its ironic that Americans won't be pissed off at the actual murderers. Americans won't be pissed off at the Libyan government for failing to protect the sovereign embassy of the US. Americans won't be pissed off at the Muslim world for creating a religion that encourages murder of those who insult the prophet. Americans won't be pissed off at the Arabs, who have created a culture of blood thirsty anti-American mobs. Americans won't be pissed off at American Pastor Terry Jones for spreading the video. No, Americans, in your mind, will be pissed off at Israel (Jews). Why? Because a lone American-Israeli (Jew) excercised his free speech and made a movie that inflamed these blood-thirsty mobs to go on a killing spree.

That, my friend, is irrational anti-semitism. And if you really believe that this is how Americans feel, in effect you believe that Americans are irrational anti-semites.

Wow.

[Seraphya]

There are very legitimate criticisms of Islam, just like there are of Scientology, Mormonism, Christianity and Judaism. I am not making a judgment call here as to ranking which opens itself up to the most to criticism. The problem with this is that it was designed to incite in a crude manner.

The problem wasn't even the hostile tone. It is possible to debunk young-earthers and such people while pointing out that what they say doesn't make any sense. It might not be the way you will change minds, but there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

Just like you can make quite harsh critiques of Israel and the occupation without being an antisemite, you can scholarly debunk many of the claims of Islam with about as much ease as debunking the bible codes. But these people seem to be filled with racist hate and have no interest in truth.

---

Just like an offensive joke isn't taken as badly when it is funny, but when it isn't funny it is totally unacceptable; so too attacks on a religion that not are not based on truth are just plain disgusting.

[WoolSilkCotton]

LaC, it is very easy from your sofa in Boro Park to lecture Americans about freedom of speech.

Americans are not as stupid as you think. American Christians and Jews and even most American Muslims condemn the violence and they know the blame is squarely on the murderers.

We cannot change the fact that the Islamic lunatics will riot and murder people with minimal provocation. A wise person knows to keep his mouth shut and not provoke them.
A wise President knows that the embassy under seige needs to issue statements to placate those who are eager to become an angry mob.
Irresponsible candidates with nothing to lose can shoot off their mouths about starting more wars that no American wants to fight.

Let Pastor Terry Jones, Sam Immbecile, and Myth Romney send their sons to work at an American embassy in an Islamic country. Then they can practice free speech and release films slamming Islam.

Until they are willing to do so, it would be best for you and them to STFU.

Barring nuclear annihilation of the entire Mid East, the Islamic world over there will not change.

Do you remember when 256 US Marines were killed in a terrorist attack in Lebanon? What did President Ronald Reagan do? He withdrew all our troops from Lebanon. He did not launch a war against anyone. He was smart enough to know that there was no winning to be done there. What would your new hero Myth Romney do?

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Just like you can make quite harsh critiques of Israel and the occupation without being an antisemite, you can scholarly debunk many of the claims of Islam with about as much ease as debunking the bible codes. But these people seem to be filled with racist hate and have no interest in truth.

Posted by: Seraphya | September 12, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Haredim say that FM is filled with racist hate and has no interest in truth.

Should FM be banned? Oh right, haredim don't riot and murder people based on FM's words.

So which is it? Who gets to decide that FM is full of truth and the film against Islam is full of lies. And if you agree that they're both of full of lies, yet you only have an issue with the anti-Islam video because the Muslims will riot and kill, unlike haredimn are you admitting that you're just giving in to the mobs? Are you capitulating to the animals?

But that doesn't make sense either. Because when the haredim riot in Beit Shemesh, we all agree that they should be put down. We don't blame secular for "causing" haredi riots. Yet, we'll blame the filmmaker for "causing" the Muslim riots.

Such hypocrisy. The only consistency I see here is a deep Jewish self-hatred, and the inability to stand up for what's right.

[WoolSilkCotton]

LaC, try reading the comments on news websites that posted this story, as well as the stories about Romney's saber-rattling, then get back to us about how Americans are feeling about Israel.

[DiedAndGoneToHeaven]

he believes the movie will help his native land by exposing Islam's flaws to the world. "Islam is a cancer, period,"

Are you kidding? Islam is great! What other religion gives you the opportunity to get 72 virgins of your vey own! Talk about paradise! Sure beats sucking a bleeding baby penis!

[WoolSilkCotton]

++the inability to stand up for what's right.

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | September 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM ++

You are welcome to "stand up for what's right" when it's YOUR sons and daughters in harm's way.

[WoolSilkCotton]

LaC, you should contact the family of the murdered ambassador, and lecture them about the Israeli filmmaker's right to free speech, and how we should send American troops in there to defend the embassy so that Becile and Pastor Jones can keep inciting the fanatical Islamics.

Then you should call the families of any American soldier murdered in that mission.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

WSC. You're a little slow today. I was responding to your statement that Americans will be pissed off at Israel. Go back and read your comment. Then read mine.

Now, thank Buddha that I don't live anywhere near liberal food stamps NY. But free speech is one of the basic foundations of liberty in America. If not for free speech, we would not be able to sit here on the internet and say whatever the hell we want.

For a US Govt agency to publicly say that "we reject freedom of speech if it offends another religion" is tantamount to saying "we reject our Constitution because we don't want to offend the Muslims".

Reagan was smart for pulling our troops out of Lebanon. But he never rejected the constitution. He never rejected anyone's right to free speech. FOr a US govt agency to publicly reject the constitution is a new low and just another step down into total tyranny.

What will happen when the Muslims demand Sharia law in America? Will we then capitulate to them for the sake of peace? Will you demand that everyone on their sofas in Boro Park stop lecturing about freedom of religion, and instead just accept Sharia law? I'm sure some idiot will then say that we need to capitulate, just like Reagan pulled the troops out of Lebanon.

[Oy_Vegas]

WSC, very well said.

However I'm going to vote against Obama, even if it means having a President like Romney.

[WoolSilkCotton]

And I'm going to vote for Obama, even if it means having a President like Obama.

[Mikal W. Grass]

WSC, this has nothing to do with Israelis and Israel. This film could have been made by any one of a number of people living in America who despise Islam. Some I am sure lurk on this forum.

The Ambassador and his staffers died not because an Israeli made what might be a crappy film but because others think it is their absolute right to threaten, intimidate, and kill others if the sky isn't blue enough or the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, and they think it is an insult to their religion.

The fact that an Israeli made this film is just another arrow in the anti semtic quiver that many carry around. Oh, and by the way, I think the filmmaker is a coward for going into hiding.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

LaC, try reading the comments on news websites that posted this story, as well as the stories about Romney's saber-rattling, then get back to us about how Americans are feeling about Israel.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM

Dammit. I thought they hate Jews only because of MBP or KJ. Dammit.

[Yoel B]

"Ytringsfrihed er ytringsfrihed er ytringsfrihed. Der er intet men."

So the Jyllandsposten editorialized about the first Mohammed cartoon riots.

Free speech is free speech is free speech. There is no but.

[george]

Can't we for once face the truth - Islam is a religion founded on forceable conversion with a warrior founder who killed Jews and Christians if they didn't become Muslims. And since Muslims believe Mohamed was the perfect man, his belief/life is their role model. Therefor ALL believing Muslims want to enslave or kill us. They will do so until the whole world is Muslim or until they are all dead - those are the only two alternatives.

[george]

And in case you haven't noticed, starting in the 600's from a small outpost in what is now Saudi Arabia, through wars in the middle east, north africa, into europe, Islam has not taken over 1 billion souls - not through missionaries, but through wars of conquest. The battle continues.

[george]

And the most current thought about the cause of the destruction of the classical Greek/Roman world was not the the German invasion of Rome but the Islam wars against the Byzantine empire, ultimately destroying that ancient classical land.

[mendel]

Lubavitchers are Christians--
Let's define terms so as to avoid having a pseudo-argument.

What do you mean by "worship" and "dead"?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

Bacile? or Imbecile?

[Yosef ben Matitya]

george,
it is a well known fact that it was the arabs that preserved the greco roman culture.
while it;s true that some arabs are in the way of the settlers in Israel, it's no reason to make fools of ourselves. bad enough that rabbis are now promotting ignorance.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Mikal, good points, but unless the proponents of free speech are willing to go to war with the Islamic fanatics, there is nothing good that will come from waking up the slleeping dogs.

Most Americans want to get all our troops out of the MidEast ASAP. Nobody is interested in new wars against more Islamic fanatic scumbags, certainly not over some ill-advised crappy movie.
Kindly re-listen to the song Fortune Son by John Foggarty to see just who is interested in such a war.

[george]

Yosef, I'm not arguing specific issues: I'm looking at the war of civilizations from the macro level - the basis thrust of Islam is to convert the the world to Islam - by force! So all those "let sleeping dogs lie" and "don't upset the applecart" sentiments are delusional - the dog is alive, rabid, out there and vicious, and wants to bite you for not being a fellow dog - it doesn't need any other provocation.

[Mikal W. Grass]

WSC, I will listen to the song and I am sure I will agree with Mr. Fogarty and you. Nobody wants war, especially sane individuals who have "war" age children.

The Muslims never sleep; they are forever vigilant and ready to defend the honor of their religion 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We can't stop living - yet - because a billion or more people get insulted by a crackpot film.

[WoolSilkCotton]

So George, please tell us specifically what the USA should do.

If it involves war, you need to be willing to reinstate the Draft. There are not enough volunteers in the US military to support a war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, and Egypt.

Also what is the plan regarding financing those new wars?

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

this film is very bad propaganda that is reminiscent of Nazi propaganda films made against Jews and others.

One difference is that that there were no riots by Jews after Leni Riefenstah made her movies and she did not have to go into hiding.

[jancsibacsi]

Seraphya-Everyone in here is forgetting this movie was not in any theatre it was put by someone on youtube thats all its not a released movie no theater shwos it so what the big fuss about someone saw it on youtube and started this whole mindless riot,theese fanatics belong in a lunatic asylem.

[Mikal W. Grass]

Bassi, the world was a much different place in Leni's time. She did not have to go into hiding because she had the imprimatur of the Hitler govt behind her. Also, there weren't over a billion Jews in the world who were connected by social media,tv, and the internet. The Jews didn't have rocket propelled grenades, nor did they have the intestinal fortitude to risk their lives rioting over such things.

Finally, the film is hardly a propaganda film against Islam. It looks more like a pathetic attempt at a very very very soft core porn film. The guy who portrays Mohammad probably took the part so he could grope a few women and not get in trouble because he was "acting."

[Shmarya]

One difference is that that there were no riots by Jews after Leni Riefenstah made her movies and she did not have to go into hiding.

Posted by: Bassy the Haredi Slayer | September 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM

Of course, the fact that Jews were a MINORITY in Germany, that they were well integrated before Hitler and completely marginalized after he took power, all that didn't play into our response then?

[Brian]

Of course, the fact that Jews were a MINORITY in Germany, that they were well integrated before Hitler and completely marginalized after he took power, all that didn't play into our response then?

Hi Shmarya,

There's plenty of anti-semitic propaganda today coming from Iran and the Palestinian territories, much of it targeted towards children.

Jews are the majority in Israel (unlike Germany), yet i'm not aware of the deaths of any deaths of foreign ambassadors on Israeli soil as a direct result of riots stemming from said propaganda. Sure, the Haredim riot (a lot!)- but no secular Israelis are rioting over this.

[Brian]

(apologies for the repetition "the deaths of any deaths"- bad editing!)

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Brian | September 12, 2012 at 01:30 PM

No, of course. In Israel, we just have church and mosque vandalism, the firebombing of a cab carrying an Arab family, beatings of Arabs, attacks against Arab property, and stonings of Arab homes and and Arab people.

[Jake]

Occupational hazard of one VOLUNTERING for the military is death,dismemberment and disfigurement.

Doesn't matter who the commander in chief is.

Arguments such as let his children be there are retrograde stupid.

[Barry]

But does this Sam Bacile and his 100 Jewish backers exist?

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Jake | September 12, 2012 at 01:42 PM++

Spoken like a true Fortunate Son.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

But does this Sam Bacile and his 100 Jewish backers exist?

I am afraid Barry that there are quite a few more than 100 Jewish idiots backers.

[WoolSilkCotton]

FYI, during the Vietnam War, your draft-dodging hero Myth Romney became a Mormon missionary and was sent on shluchos to Paris to spend the war.

[Brian]

No, of course. In Israel, we just have church and mosque vandalism, the firebombing of a cab carrying an Arab family, beatings of Arabs, attacks against Arab property, and stonings of Arab homes and and Arab people.

I completely agree with you, but these are the actions of fundamentalists (not just Haredim) and (hopefully) not the secular-majority of Israeli society.
It seemed as though you were suggesting that, if Jews as a whole were powerful enough, we'd jump at anything antisemitic and start rioting.

[Shmarya]

I completely agree with you, but these are the actions of fundamentalists (not just Haredim) and (hopefully) not the secular-majority of Israeli society.
It seemed as though you were suggesting that, if Jews as a whole were powerful enough, we'd jump at anything antisemitic and start rioting.

Posted by: Brian | September 12, 2012 at 01:58 PM

The majority of Egyptians and Libyans did not riot and do not support the riots – or the attack on the US Ambassador.

So you are either a toll or very misinformed – or both.

[vince]

Personally I think Obama is really hesitating to touch this embassy issue, given that Americans are already fed up with war, islam, and the middle east along with Netanyahu.

[Mike]

George,

You are so ignorant - the largest Muslim population - over 12% of the world total - is in Indonesia, which was NEVER conquered by Muslims or converted by force.

[Sarahbracha]

You all have read wh ere this Bacile guy is probably a hoax and this was made by someone intentionally to cause violence -not to promote truth or any such garbage in the promotional material, right?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/12/161003427/what-we-know-about-sam-bacile-the-man-behind-the-muhammad-movie

What we. Know is that this "man" has little to no record of his existence, no record of existing or working in hollywood and is not a known Israeli citizen.

His credibility as a sourcefor anything seems a bit shaky, yes?

[maven]

Apparently neither Bacile or Klein are Jews, for the record:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/muhammad-film-consultant-sam-bacile-is-not-israeli-and-not-a-real-name/262290/#

[Rocky]

WSC: You have made many good points.

"Freedom of Speech when it's someone else in harm's way? Another reason for Americans to be pissed off at Israel and Israelis." Time to shut down AIPAC?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Not shut them down, just tell them to STFU and stop banging the war drums.

Want America to go to war with Iran and Syria for you?
Sorry, no can do.

[Korbendallas72]

Any Jew who votes for Obama harbors hatred of God.

It's that simple. If you want to be a secular humanist because you think you know better then fine... at least admit it.

So are you hoping that when the Jewish backlash comes, they'll come after only the "bad evil Jews", of which you are not one? It's ok if they persecute Jews that don't agree with you politically because then they're not party members...

[WoolSilkCotton]

++Reagan was smart for pulling our troops out of Lebanon. But he never rejected the constitution. He never rejected anyone's right to free speech.++
++Lubavitchers are Christians | September 12, 2012 at 10:41 AM++

I can just imagine your reaction if 256 American soldiers were killed in a terrorist explosion in an Islamic country, and Pres. Obama's response was to abandon the mission with no retaliation.

And BTW, what was Reagan's official reaction to Israel for blowing up the Iraqi nuclear reactor? He condemned Israel, remember?

++For a US Govt agency to publicly say that "we reject freedom of speech if it offends another religion" ++

You know damn well there was no such quote. You are babbling Faux News propaganda. The embassy was trying to quell the fanatics by saying what they felt they had to.

Meanwhile, why don't you call the family of the murdered ambassador and give them a lecture about free speech.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++ Korbendallas72 | September 12, 2012 at 03:50 PM++

There you go again.

Korbendallas, I love ya when you bash frumma, but when you mix politics and religion, it's no go.

[rebitzman]

You know damn well there was no such quote.

Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

[george]

Mike, your are right - Indonesia seems to be conquered by Islam as a result of missionary work, as opposed to Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran, Egypt, Algeria, Tunesia, Syria, Turkey, Morocco, Pakistan, good chunks of Nigeria, the Sudan, etc. etc. which were all conquered militarily by Islam.

And of course Europe and Great Britain are being conquered by Islam as a result of misquided immigration policies in those countries, given another 50 to 100 years they will all probably be Muslim majority countries also, with ultimately the Christians assuming dhiminni status or fleeing to America. And what would I do? I'd make sure there was no more immigration from Muslim countries, for one thing.

[rebitzman]

For a US Govt agency to publicly say that "we reject freedom of speech if it offends another religion"

First of all - that is not what was said - your use of quotation marks to outline your own intepretation of what was actually said is a tad odd.

Secondly - are you really suggesting that it it is not possible for the president (or anyone else for that matter) to both condemn bigotry AND defend free speech?

[Gloria]

Send him back to Israel and/or hand him over to Egypt.. He nor his sons will go and fight for this country.. It will be our sons and daughters that get killed...

[who knows]

Great! Shmaryah is condeming the film because it caused riots!
Quote:
"The film spaked riots in Egypt and Libya, killing the US Ambassador to Libya and three other US staffers."

WSC accuses Israelis for killing American ambassador and dragging Americans into a war with Islam! Why? Because the filmmaker is Israeli American!

Both accusations are stupid and false even if the were true, but they are also false.

Should now Israelis riot and kill an American ambassdor because American Jews like Shmaryah and WSC offended Israel?

Everyone knows that they will not do it and this is why Shmaryah can continue his work in safety and WSC will not be accused in killin anyone. This is the difference which, for some reason, escapes the great minds of these 2 individuals.

[gil]

This whole conversation is one big circle jerk. Soon, everyone will realize that these attacks were NOT spontaneous, butt rather, planned in advance to coincide with 9/11.

So much for these specious theories about some dumbass movie.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: who knows | September 12, 2012 at 05:29 PM

Are you really this stupid?

At some point, you're going to have to own up to your stupidity and to your craven behavior.

Now toddle off to mommy and see if she can help you work on reading comprehension skills.

[jancsipista]

Shmarya--You think you know how dumb who knows is, well let me tell you about theese hassidim like who knows they are beyond dumb
a dummy is a genious compared to them,and the unbeleivable part is that they havent a clue to their own stupidity their emotion is slave to their rebbes and stopes them from thinking
and on top of it all, they think they are the smartest.

[David]

The film was NOT made by Jews or Israelis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_of_Muslims

In any case, what does it say about Islam that the mere suggestion of criticism justifies a homicidal rampage or even war?

[David]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=161025565

[Radical Feminist]

Deamanding the right to "Freedom of Speech," (and America's right to say or publish anything we please without consequence)in countries where people are not even granted basic rights seems a projection of America's values on cultures and societies Americans seem to know little about. The idea that any criticism of Islam usually evokes this kind of response says alot about the Muslim world today, and what kind of crises it is in.

[justsayin]

shmarya i think that this post requires an update as there seems to be serious doubt and confusion as to the films origin/funding/producer etc. there is even question whether a full film even exists. in my opinion and this is purely speculation the attacks and film are actually unrelated and the action/reaction relationship between the two is only an attempt to explain away a violent bloodlust action as a reaction

[rebitzman]

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/muhammad-film-consultant-sam-bacile-is-not-israeli-and-not-a-real-name/262290/

It appears the guy is neither Israeli, Jewish.......or real.

[Sifter]

Evidence now suggesting attack was long-planned coordinated attack by al Zahiri of Al Queda.

Recently, a menorah was vandalized at Indiana University. Cases of the Jewish Studies department were smashed, and sacred documents were taken, later distributed to eight bathrooms and urinated upon.

Did the Jews go bonkers? Did they burn buildings, overturn cars, chant death to anti-Semites? (Maybe they should have.)
My point is nothing, NOTHING no matter how distasteful or vulgar or propagnada oriented, created by any media, justifies this kind of murder and mayhem.

This film didn't "spark" middle east violence, Shmarya. These Muslims riot over any and everything, real or perceived offenses. They did it London, Paris, all over the world. Stop blaming the mini skirt for the rape.

[Shmarya]

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/muhammad-film-consultant-sam-bacile-is-not-israeli-and-not-a-real-name/262290/

It appears the guy is neither Israeli, Jewish.......or real.

Posted by: rebitzman | September 12, 2012 at 06:42 PM

Actually, what Goldberg – who cite – concludes is not what you conclude:What are we to make of Steve Klein's assertions? I'm taking everything about this strange and horrible episod with a grain of salt, though I will say that I haven't seen any proof yet that Sam Bacile is an actual Israeli Jew, or that the name is anything other than a pseudonym. More to come, undoubtedly.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

We all agree that there are a lot of Muslims who commit murder, violence and mayhem with minimal provocation. No other religion nowadays acts like they do.

We all agree that the rest of the world is living in fear of provoking any such provocation.

We all agree that curtailing our cherished freedoms in the interest of appeasing these savages is causing all freedom-loving peoples great angst and anger.

So what do we do now?

Nobody is interested in going to war again with any Islamic country. If you are, please have your sons and daughters report to the nearest Army Recruiting Office.

The USA cannot afford another war with any MidEast country. If there is, there will have to be a Draft and massive tax increases to pay for the war (as was done during WWII, when the tax rate on the highest earners was 90%), as well as rationing. Good luck selling that proposal to the American people.

Do we pull all Americans out of every Islamic country, and advise all other western nations to do the same? Risk another Arab oil embargo, as well as the economic chaos that would ensue?

Evacuating Israel and then nuking the whole fu_king MidEast?
I really don't see any other way of dealing with this.

[Shmarya]

This film didn't "spark" middle east violence, Shmarya. These Muslims riot over any and everything, real or perceived offenses. They did it London, Paris, all over the world. Stop blaming the mini skirt for the rape.

Posted by: Sifter | September 12, 2012 at 07:05 PM

So the riots in Egypt were also Al Qaeda?

Or do you mean to say that the film was meant to be cover for the riots and attacks?

Or do you mean it was unrelated to Libya but related to Egypt?

Or unrelated to both?

The film is a disgrace no matter if it provoked violence or not. (See the post for a brief explanation of why that is so.)

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

++For a US Govt agency to publicly say that "we reject freedom of speech if it offends another religion" ++

You know damn well there was no such quote. You are babbling Faux News propaganda. The embassy was trying to quell the fanatics by saying what they felt they had to.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | September 12, 2012 at 04:02 PM

Are you for real? Here's the link to the American embassy's website, and they say just that: :We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others"

Now, you accused me of babbling Faux News propaganda. However, if you read the US Embassy's website, you'll see that it is true. Which tells me that whichever "news" site you get your news from, DOES NOT tell you the truth. Hey, you may actually have to watch Fox News to get the truth.

The link:

http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html

You are brainwashed by the liberal media, and they're not telling the truth. Whatever. There's no use in arguing with a liberal.

[george]

WSC: the western world should bar all visits/immigration from Muslims, the same way we bar Nazis even now from entering the US. Based on their behavior the burden is on the individual Muslim to show he/she has a personal belief system that is consistent with Western values, otherwise they stay home!

[who knows]

Funny how Shmaryah always fails to admit any of his mistakes and always gets enraged goes into a name calling frenzy...

Here is an example of a discussion Shmaryah style:

" Are you really this stupid?

At some point, you're going to have to own up to your stupidity and to your craven behavior.

Now toddle off to mommy and see if she can help you work on reading comprehension skills.

Posted by: Shmarya | September 12, 2012 at 05:44 PM

"

Perhaps some day you will improve your analytical skills little and will stop blaming anonymous film maker and entire Israel for killing an ambassodor and even will be able to process that such an operation can not be spontenous? It must have been prepared for a long time.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

LaC, once again you show how limited your reading comprehension skills are.

How is your quote "we reject freedom of speech if it offends another religion" the same as "we firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others"?

Do you not "firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others"?
And what statement would YOU issue if an angry mob was starting to form outside your building?

BTW, is the right of free speech 'universal'? Outside of America, most of Europe, and a few other places, it isn't.

[who knows]

Shmarya--You think you know how dumb who knows is, well let me tell you about theese hassidim like who knows they are beyond dumb
a dummy is a genious compared to them,and the unbeleivable part is that they havent a clue to their own stupidity

Posted by: jancsipista | September 12, 2012 at 06:01 PM

Not discussing the issue at hand and descending to name calling does not show you as a smarty. You've managed to produce a perfect description of yourself though in the comment above (just replace "who knows" by "juncsipista" and you'll get a perfect match).

[Yoel B]

"Does Sam Bacile exist?"

Good question. Here's what NPR said: "Our library did not turn up any footprint for Bacile. They found no property, phone, licenses nor court records. And Bacile had not made news until today."

A bit odd for a guy described as a property developer; and as for his being an Israeli, NPR also reports ""I don't know that much about him. I met him, I spoke to him for an hour. He's not Israeli, no," [Steve] Klein [described by the AP as an "associate" of Bacile's] told [the Atlantic's Jeffrey] Goldberg. "I can tell you this for sure, the State of Israel is not involved, Terry Jones (the radical Christian Quran-burning pastor) is not involved. His name is a pseudonym. All these Middle Eastern folks I work with have pseudonyms. I doubt he's Jewish. I would suspect this is a disinformation campaign."

[Rebecca]

Unfortunately Kamtza Bar Kamtza got it wrong this time. This so called film maker is not an Israeli Jew, and not even Jewish and it is now coming out that this whole story is part of a conspiracy to increase rabid anti-semitism in this country and around the world. But isn't that what this website is all about anyway!May G-d give you the wisdom and clarity to shake off your bitterness in the coming new year and stop your rabid rants against those Joooooz. There is a way to stand up against corruption in a dignified manner without sounding like a mad and loathing self hating Jew!

[rebitzman]

Are you for real? Here's the link to the American embassy's website, and they say just that: :We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others"

And that is NOT what you claim to have quoted.

@Shmarya

"I haven't seen any proof yet that Sam Bacile is an actual Israeli Jew, or that the name is anything other than a pseudonym." is what I concluded - exactly I said.

NPR is reporting the same thing as is ABC News, as is salon.com, as is...........

Where's the disconnect?

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

George,

You are so ignorant - the largest Muslim population - over 12% of the world total - is in Indonesia, which was NEVER conquered by Muslims or converted by force. 
----------------------------

You are the ignorant! Islam came to to Indonesia by force, but it was local force. 

King Parnaswera in 1414 converted to Islam, became the sultan of  Malacca and then converted the population by sword. 

Read some academic text books on Indonesia instead of what you are reading now.

[maven]

This site will continue to insist that Sam Bacile is an Israeli even as it is clear that everyone involved is Coptic or Evangelical, and even if this Bacile is shown to not exist, he will remain as Jewish as... Jorge Puello...

[dh]

WSC, you're back on my Chanukah list.

[Steven]

From debka.com

Al Zawahri personally ordered Al Qaeda to murder US Ambassador Stevens.

The US Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and three staff members at the US consulate in Benghazi were deliberately murdered Tuesday night Sept 11. debkafile’s counter-terror sources report exclusively that far from being a spontaneous raid by angry Islamists, it was a professionally executed terrorist operation by a professional Al Qaeda team, whose 20 members acted under the orders of their leader Ayman al Zawahri in revenge for the liquidation of top al Qaeda operative Abu Yahya al-Libi last June.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

++dh | September 12, 2012 at 09:03 PM++

LOL!

[baba boooey]

Fafafoooooey

[Rocky]

More twists and turns in this story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/13/anti-islamic-film-us-nakoula

A Coptic Christian living in California may have been involved in the production of the film. Other Coptic Christians may be involved with the production and promotion of the film. "Sam Bacile" may be Egyptian.

[dh]

baba, correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we know each other in fifth grade? Remember? I sat in front of Tommy who wanted to be an astronaut and you sat in the back chained to the legs of the desk?

[who knows]

An Israeli Jew financed by 100 (good round number indeed) of American Jews indeed.

If Shmaryah is buying such a cheap propaganda from Al Jazeera. I wonder how much of the rest of his information is of the same "high" quality?

[Shmarya]

That you're not a smart person or an honest person is fairly evident. You've proved both defects over and over and over again.

But if you would actually read my post, you might notice that the source I cite is the Associated Press, not Al Jazeera.

Past that, as I noted above, Jeffrey Goldberg, the source for the claim that Sam Bacile is not Jewish, himself says that he doesn't know what to believe, that the information is too muddied and has changed too much too often for him to know with certainty who actually did what.

But cretinous people like you have difficulty with reading comprehension and with honesty.

[uncle sam]

so here's what we know as of this moment: 1) intelligence sources are being quoted saying the riots were too professional and too planned to have been a spontaneous response to the "movie", rather they were probably planned for a 9/11 accent; 2) the identify of the makers of that 25c trailer are not known, there is no real reason to think they are Jewish or Israeli; 3) Muslims will riot at the drop of the hat, kill,murder, mutilate non Muslims, because they believe that's what their religion commands. No more Muslims into the Western World!

[justsayin]

But cretinous people like you have difficulty with reading comprehension and with honesty.

Posted by: Shmarya | September 12, 2012 at 11:19 PM

shmarya i agree that @who knows is being bashfull and dishonest but dont you think that you should at least update your post and correct the headline as it seems the facts are not clear as who was involved in the film.

it seems that you were hasty to judge when the first reports came in that the producer of the film was jewish/israeli and you may turn out to be right but as of now for the sake of the integrity of this blog wouldnt the right course of action be to update the post

[Shmarya]

so here's what we know as of this moment: 1) intelligence sources are being quoted saying the riots were too professional and too planned to have been a spontaneous response to the "movie", rather they were probably planned for a 9/11 accent; 2) the identify of the makers of that 25c trailer are not known, there is no real reason to think they are Jewish or Israeli; 3) Muslims will riot at the drop of the hat, kill,murder, mutilate non Muslims, because they believe that's what their religion commands. No more Muslims into the Western World!

Posted by: uncle sam | September 13, 2012 at 12:08 AM

No.

What we know is that the protests started days ago, that the basis for the protests is the film, that the attack on the consulate in Libya was probably staged by a terrorist group which used the protest as a diversion, the AP interviewed "Sam Bacile" who told them he's Jewish, denials of that came later from Klein, who claims to be an Evangelical.

That's basically what we know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

…it seems that you were hasty to judge when the first reports came in that the producer of the film was jewish/israeli…

Posted by: justsayin | September 13, 2012 at 12:16 AM

The AP interviewed the guy. He claimed to be an Israeli Jew living in LA, and the AP apparently knew (at least some of) that to be true.

[Steven in UK]

When a year or so ago, a British Commonwealth war cemetery were desecrated, with extra malice shown to the Jewish graves, what excuse did they need then?.

[Steven in UK]

The mob mob a YouTube film, of themselves doing it, with their faces hood less, and banishing their riffles,.

The so called Libyan government pledged to bring them to justice, then as now.

How might they do it!, and with whose army?.

[Seraphya]

I was saying what sarahbracha was saying. That this film was mad for the reaction and not for what it said. The guy probably is super happy about these riots. He is probably less happy about being exposed though.

[takeiteast]

The bit about it being financed by a bunch of Jews at least gave me pause from the beginning. The NYT also reprinted the AP report though so laziness must be a valid excuse.

[who knows]

Al Jazzera still has their inerview where they claim that the movie was made by an American Israeli Jew and financed by an exactly 100 Jews.

Shmarya, now you know that you were wrong jumping to conclusion (a stupid and unreasonable one at that) and blaiming the Jews and swearing at me.

Don't you think that this is good time to apologize or it is too hard for a guy like you?