Intent To Deceive: Haredi Rabbis Twist The Truth To Skirt US Law And Mislead Their Followers

Claims — advanced primarily by one infectious diseases doctor, Daniel Berman of Westchester Square Medical Center in the Bronx — that the government data are “scant” or “inconclusive,” and that the risks of MbP have not been adequately proved, have been vigorously challenged by leading infectious diseases specialists as well as professional organizations, including the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association and the Israeli Pediatric Association. Not only do these individuals and organizations stand by the CDC’s report, but many have told The Jewish Week that they strongly suspect that incidents of metzitzah b’peh-related infections — both viral and bacterial — are underreported and under-recognized by doctors who are unaware of the practice.

The Jewish Week accurately reports that the haredi groups threatening to sue New York City over the new informed consent requirement for circumcisions that include metzitzah b'peh (MBP – the direct mouth-to-bleeding-penis suction applied by the mohel to the baby's open circumcision wound done by most hasidic and some non-hasidic haredi mohels) are basing their legal argument on the idea that there is no real risk from MBP.

To do this, haredi rabbis are relying on the opinion of one man, Dr. Daniel Berman, who I've previously shown to be dishonest. (And here and here.)

The JW doesn't get into Berman's dishonesty, though. Instead, it briefly focuses on how Berman's views are judged by the the majority of leading experts in the US:

Claims — advanced primarily by one infectious diseases doctor, Daniel Berman of Westchester Square Medical Center in the Bronx — that the government data are “scant” or “inconclusive,” and that the risks of MbP have not been adequately proved, have been vigorously challenged by leading infectious diseases specialists as well as professional organizations, including the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association and the Israeli Pediatric Association. Not only do these individuals and organizations stand by the CDC’s report, but many have told The Jewish Week that they strongly suspect that incidents of metzitzah b’peh-related infections — both viral and bacterial — are underreported and under-recognized by doctors who are unaware of the practice. They also emphasize that it against basic medical theory and standard hygiene protocols to place a human mouth on an open wound, particularly the wound of an immuno-compromised newborn.

But why is it that haredi rabbis are ignoring dozens of experts, almost every one of whom has more standing than Berman and is a far better doctor than Berman will ever be?

Two reasons, I think.

The first reason is that haredi rabbis cannot accept the fact that there is real risk from MBP. If they do accept that fact, halakhicly the proper response is to ban MBP – unless they want to rule that the added risk to life and added deaths and maimings are acceptable because the "goyyim"  and the "reformers" are engaged in a real "war" against circumcision itself.

And while that contention might make convenient hyperbolic rhetoric, the facts don't support it.

The second reason is that in 1944 the US Supreme Court ruled in Prince v. Massachusetts that parents and religions do not have absolute rights to do what they want to with children:

“neither the rights of religion nor the rights of parenthood are beyond limitation. ... The right to practice religion freely does not include the right to expose the community or the child to communicable disease or the latter to ill-health or death.”

So any legal challenge that acknowledges there is added risk from MBP will almost certainly fail.

The haredi masses for the most part have no idea that Berman is a dishonest evil little man, and they don't know what US law actually holds or how their rabbis are manipulating the facts with help of Danny Berman to try to skirt that law.

Would it make a difference if they did know?

I'm not sure. It would, however, be good to find out.

Comments

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Hooray! The HASIDIC PENIS SUCKING RITUAL is back on FM!

[tesyaa]

Does Dan Berman live in a modern orthodox Westchester community, or is that a different guy?

[Jack]

Can you tell me again what MBP means? I forgot?

Posted by: Al zheimer | September 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM

MBP - the direct mouth-to-bleeding-penis suction applied by the mohel to the baby's open circumcision wound done by most hasidic and some non-hasidic haredi mohels.

[Perverts]

Hooray! The HASIDIC PENIS SUCKING RITUAL is back on FM!

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar | September 27, 2012 at 11:16 AM

My, we are preoccupied here with little children's penises. How sick!

[dh]

We ain't no preverts. We ain't thems that are doin the HPSR! We be jist discussin HPSR.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

"haredi rabbis are relying on the opinion of one man, Dr. Daniel Berman, who I've previously shown to be dishonest."

The situation is very similar to the fraud perpetrated by Andrew Wakefield via his 1998 paper that purportedly linked vaccines to autism via a "study" of 12 children. The paper was seized on by the anti-vaccine lobby to encourage parents not to vaccinate their children.

Untold numbers of children were placed at risk or died as a result.

Berman, Wakefield... same thing. Dishonest propaganda that gets taken as science by people too blind or ignorant to know the difference.

[Alter Kocker]

And I say once again, to those who support MBP: The next time you, or your loved ones undergo surgery, the surgeon must spit into the open wound. If you are unwilling for that to happen, then you should not support MBP.

[Deremes]

IF all the doctors who agree with Dr. Berman will come out publicly with their opinion that there is no risk in metzitzah b'peh,i bet they would be called liars as well.

To think there isn't a war against bris milah in general isn't a good sell for orthodox Jews.Just look whats going on in Germany,San Fransisco,Israel.

Orthodox Jews who are used to be at war with those who tried to reform them in the name of helping them have a good sense to smell what the real intentions are.

for a few generations they are at war with those who try to reform Judaism.Those Orthodox Jews who said then lets hear what reformers have to say and perhaps they are right why do we need to follow all the unnecessary things maybe the reformers are right that the halacha of metzitzah b'peh kills babies and is a disgusting thing to do.Maybe the reformers are right with all they say,those Orthodox became reform and within time assimilated becoming full fledge goiyim.

It would be nice to tell the readers that Dr.Thomas Frieden the head of the CDC was the head of the NYC Heath dept where he started the whole MBP.Just like when any lawyer or public official who writes an article in defense of Rubashkin there will be all kinds of digging up why he wrote it.Let it be that the lawyers cousin is a neighbor to Rubahkins defense team or they once worked for the team.

[barry]

Deremes, why does one say the following after a bris if it is so safe?

"May He who blessed our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Moses and Aaron, David and Solomon, bless this tender infant (name) the son of (name) because (name) the son of (name)pledged for his sake to the Teitelbaum's Zurich based numbered bank account. In this merit, may the Holy One, blessed be He, hasten to send a complete recovery to all his two hundred forty-eight bodily parts and three hundred sixty-five veins, and raise him to Torah, to marriage, and to Otisville; and let us say, Amen"

[Deremes]

barry,
Purim hangover?
its a day after yom kipur not after purim.Anyways,l'chaim just be careful not to mix.

[jancsibacsi]

Deremes--D i bist mentally deranged with youre paranoia on bris mila.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Years ago when Rav Tendler came out against MBP I was told by a kolleleit pisher that Rav Eliashiv had consulted with an infectious disease specialist and was told that there is no herpes transmission risk which is why he announced that, Daas Torah, direct MBP is the only halachically acceptable method to use.
Is Berman the prick that told him that?

[WoolSilkCotton]

Defends, what other doctors agree with Berman?

[Seraphya]

Its not just vaccines, although that is the most similar one. Its the same with genetic modification or global warming. Also Haredim are more anti-scientific than the general population so that confounds the problem

[MICHAEL ROLOFF]

Unfortunately it is / has been circumcision that has MADE for no end of anti-semitic sentiments. Freud found that it was the chief reason for unconscious anti-Semitism. And the myths surrounding it are at the core of the “blood libel.” Thus, It's time to eliminate the Brit Milah because if that is the chief reason for being anti-Semitic
or anti-Abrahamic [Islam too practices the rite]then why hang
on to this left-over of human sacrifice? that traumatizes
the child, cutting off 5,000 nerves, and only serves the Ultra
Orthodox to maintain their power? After all, reform Judaism
sought to eliminate the rite in the 19th century, and
Jewish identity depends on being born by a Jewish mother,
or converting. Here a link to an archive of the entire German and then some debate, note especially Michael Wolffsohn's two pieces . Circumcision has been controversial also within Jewry forever.


http://analytic-comments.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-circumcision-debate-links-and.html

Eine Diskussion ueber das Thema, mit drei Deutschen + einem Amerikanischen Psychologen.

http://analytic-comments.blogspot.com/2012/08/psychotherapeutenyahoogroupsde.html
http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/debatte/article108847257/Die-Vorhaut-des-Herzens.html

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/meinung/andere-meinung/gastkommentar-zur-beschneidungsdebatte-danke-deutschland/7160872.html

http://www.facebook.com/mike.roloff1?ref=name

http://www.roloff.freehosting.net/index.html

Member Seattle Psychoanalytic Institute and Society

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

First jancs writes this:

Deremes--D i bist mentally deranged with youre paranoia on bris mila.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | September 27, 2012 at 02:31 PM

Then a few hours later, someone else writes this:

Unfortunately it is / has been circumcision that has MADE for no end of anti-semitic sentiments. Freud found that it was the chief reason for unconscious anti-Semitism. And the myths surrounding it are at the core of the “blood libel.” Thus, It's time to eliminate the Brit Milah because if that is the chief reason for being anti-Semitic
or anti-Abrahamic [Islam too practices the rite]then why hang
on to this left-over of human sacrifice? that traumatizes
the child, cutting off 5,000 nerves, and only serves the Ultra
Orthodox to maintain their power? After all, reform Judaism
sought to eliminate the rite in the 19th century, and
Jewish identity depends on being born by a Jewish mother,
or converting.

Posted by: MICHAEL ROLOFF | September 27, 2012 at 06:50 PM

Jancs, good it be that Deremes has a point? You tell me.