Haredi Father Loses Court Bid To Stop Children’s Co-Ed Education

A British haredi father tried to get a London appeals court order to block his ex-wife from sending their children to non-haredi co-ed Jewish schools. The father also objected to the children having free access to television, movies, "certain newspapers", and the Internet.

Haredi Father Loses Court Bid To Stop Children’s Co-Ed Education
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

A British haredi father tried to get a London appeals court order to block his ex-wife from sending their children to non-haredi co-ed Jewish schools, the Telegraph reports.

The father also objected to the children having free access to television, movies, "certain newspapers", and the Internet.

While married, the couple belonged to London’s haredi community.

But after studying for a masters degree, his ex-wife has her own career and wants her children to have the education she says she never had access to.

She reportedly told a British court last week that educating the children at a non-haredi Jewish school would provide them with “infinitely superior opportunities” educationally and in life.

Her ex-husband’s attorney complained that the ex-wife lives a long walking distance from the nearest synagogue, which  impacts the children on Shabbat and holidays, also noting that the ex-husband fears that his ex-wife will denigrate haredi Judaism to the children and cause the children to be distant from him, as a result.

The court, however, rejected the father’s appeal for joint custody. It also rejected his request for an order barring his ex-wife from enrolling the children in co-ed Jewish schools.

Before the decision, the haredi community of Stamford Hill, London had organized an evening of tehillim (Psalms) recital on behalf of the children.

Comments

[Sarah]

Good, now at least the children will be educated.

[Jeff]

And he could get a lawyer to argue for that, yet. Lawyers are whores.

Before the decision, the haredi community of Stamford Hill, London had organized an evening of tehillim (Psalms) recital on behalf of the children.

Oh, thank God. Now the poor children will have a chance at a life of ignorance and xenophobia. Baruch Hashem!

(Meanwhile, those three Haredi kids in the photo get around, don't they?)

[Jeff]

Faah fah FOOOOOOOOEY

Someone needs to say tehillim for this loser.

[jancsibacsi]

Jeff--Most probably he is one of those ultras that didnt get his way on fm, so heis very embittered this is his moronic way of expressing his feelings

[Jack]

Faah fah FOOOOOOOOEY

Posted by: baba boooey | September 09, 2012 at 10:33 AM

I hear you "baba" it is "foey" but this is gallus and you will not get any understanding from outsiders. Let's just hope that the ex-wife keeps the dangers of Internet porn away from the children.

[Jeff]

I hear you "baba" it is "foey" but this is gallus and you will not get any understanding from outsiders.

Oh, yes - we're all ignorant of the truth. If only we understood the beauty of the frum way of life. Please show us the way, oh heilige rebbe! Toyreh! Toyreh!

[jancsibacsi]

Jeff -The beauty of the beast that molests helpless children the heilige rebbe will protect him and the animals who support the beauty of such perverted toireh oh yes

[danny]

Imagine having an entire neighborhood performing their voo doo rituals for you soul, once you decide to leave their cult. That's a heavy mind trip for these poor kids, especially if it's your father on the other side.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Perhaps the woman should tell the judge about the Hasidic Penis Sucking Ritual.

[Shoshi]

Posted by: danny | September 09, 2012 at 11:56 AM

Amen!

[Jeff]

Perhaps the woman should tell the judge about the Hasidic Penis Sucking Ritual.

What was it you said yesterday? New York is the baby penis sucking capital of the world? I think that should become the City's official nickname.

I'm beginning to think this could be an ad campaign as well:

"New York City - Come for the theater, stay for the baby penis sucking!"

[Jeff]

Posted by: jancsibacsi | September 09, 2012 at 11:47 AM

Yep.

[NeverFrum]

I wouldn't want to be a garbage dumpster in that neighbourhood after the court ruling :P

[put a square into a hole]

TO JEFF

FAGETABOUTIT sounds like a much better slogan for NYC. for get about the penis sucking slogan 'cause it might just arouse some of the pedophiles that rome the boro park & williamsburg mikvaos

Yes those 3 boys do pop up everytime their is an article about sex or the penis,

[Yosef]

I assisted a party to a divorce in which the mutually signed separation agmt was scripted to stipulate Haredi environments for the rearing of the children, as well as entertainment venues, devices, electronics, and etc.
There was also a mutually signed arbitration agmt that stipulated Haredi BD to issue rulings in the case. The other party ultimately tried to have the secular court vacate BD's rulings, and lost big time. The secular court ratified every last item that BD ruled on, which also included every last item in the separation agreement. The secular lawyer arguing for the winning party made the case for the continuity and consistency of ethical values for
the sake of the children's emotional/mental health (not to have the core value system that was the bedrock of their lives yanked from beneath them) (although, to be fair, the judge seemed to decide based mostly on the binding validity of the arbitration agmt signed by both parties).

[devora-torah]

what do jack and the hardei british father have in common? they are gender benders as both are c u n t s.by the way what is a british hardei as compared to an english one? all very complicated for this simple jew to understand.

[Expatriate Owl]

"Her ex-husband's attorney ..."

And who will be the attorneys for them all if they don't allow their children to have a well-rounded education that includes secular subjects?

[Shragi Getzel]

Fear not, that tehilim is being stored in shamayim for use at a later date when it will be even more needed.

[barry]

Yosef, in the UK, parents cannot exclude the jurisdiction of courts as regards the welfare of their children by arbitration agreement.

The law states the courts (and no-one else, such as a Beis Din) must consider what is best for the child.

The court will release a full judgement shortly.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Barry, the decision should be interesting reading. The father's argument was not unreasonable: maintaining continuity in the children's lives. But the court of appeals has not shown great sympathy for religious arguments in civil cases.

[Fleishike Kishke]

How nice to see a judge not influenced by Haredi Lobbyists, such as they often are in the United States, where judges routinely favor the "status quo" at the time of marriage (the "religious" parent) to the objective detriment of the children.

[barry]

There is simply no way a UK court will have regard to an argument that maintaining continuity in a child life should outweigh that child remain uneducated.

[Jeff]

How nice to see a judge not influenced by Haredi Lobbyists, such as they often are in the United States, where judges routinely favor the "status quo" at the time of marriage (the "religious" parent) to the objective detriment of the children.

Once again, we demonstrate that we are a sociological backwater. Our legal system, like our penal system, is an object of ridicule throughout the developed world.

We literally cannot do one thing right in this country. If I were able to afford it, I'd move to Western Europe and never look back.

[Realist Jew]

Why is atheism and the non-religious on the rise around the world?

[David]

No one is objectcting to the kids remaining Jewish and even religously so.

All the goyishe court is saying is that the kids have a right, and the parents have an obligation to educate the kids.

It is even Halacha to educate one's children so I fail to see how rhw frumma can object,

[Fleishike Kishke]

"maintaining the continuity" when one parent decides to leave the frumma lifestyle, is as specious an argument as forcing a lottery winner to live in his old house because we don't want to "disrupt his children's status quo." Any judge who rules that children must remain in the Haredi world when one parent is trying to get them at least half way out, ought to be forced to live "frumma continuity" for 60 days, and then see if that adjusts his decision making.

[A. Nuran]

Yosef writes:

I assisted a party to a divorce in which the mutually signed separation agmt was scripted to stipulate Haredi environments for the rearing of the children, as well as entertainment venues, devices, electronics, and etc.
There was also a mutually signed arbitration agmt that stipulated Haredi BD to issue rulings in the case. ...

When Muslims do this the herp-a-derp crowd screams "Sharia Law! Sharia Law! The sky is falling!" The yidden shriek twice as loudly. But when it's a private agreement to raise kids in a toireh-true lifestyle it's all good.

Hypocrites.

[Yosef]

A. Nuran, the Sharia concern is about a presumption, or at least a significant possibility, of coercion of the woman by a closed society. In this case, both parents were secularly educated; both professionals with extensive careers in the medical field. Both were quite savvy as to the ins and outs of the legal options available to them; no real danger of coercion here.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Yosef, you should have said that earlier!

[Rocky]

Sarah said: "Good, now at least the children will be educated." I definitely agree.

[A. Nuran]

Yosef, that same presumption applies for Orthodox Jews. In spades. You're showing Olympic-level hypocrisy here.

[David]

Perhaps the woman should tell the judge about the Hasidic Penis Sucking Ritual.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar | September 09, 2012 at 12:00 PM

The judge wouldn't believe it.

[Barry]

Binding arbitration is a form of conflict or dispute resolution. It is appropriate for disputes about alimony between ex spouses regarding issues which effect themselves. So a wife cannot come back and argue that she made a mistake or circumstances have changed and she needs more alimony while the husband cannot claim that he mistakenly agreed to pay to much. Each party is entitled to get on with their lives in the knowledge that they need never have to deal with their ex-spouse again.

With children it is different. There should never be a conflict between parent and child where a parent can claim something has been decided already and I do not want to be put to the trouble of considering this issue again even if circumstances have changed.

Yosef, if you stood up in a UK court waving your arbitration agreement and raising issues of contract law, stating that it should override what the court considers best for the child and that the court must enforce it, the judge would remind you that the child (unlike a wife's alimony) is not the property of its parents and would probably consider you as not caring about what is best for the child.

So in summary, if a mother admits that she once thought that a particular course of action was correct and agreed to it without undue influence put on her or any misrepresentation or other unhand tactics being carried out by her husband, than as regards alimony she is barred from asking the court from reopening the agreement, but as regards anything regarding the child, she is not and the court is duty bound to hear her arguments.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

++So a wife cannot come back and argue that she made a mistake or circumstances have changed and she needs more alimony while the husband cannot claim that he mistakenly agreed to pay to much++

It happens all the time. Your ex can take you back to court for more alimony anytime. They will appear in front of the judge crying and dressed in rags.
My ex got automatic cost-of-living-increases in alimony.

The nightmare never ends.

++Each party is entitled to get on with their lives in the knowledge that they need never have to deal with their ex-spouse again.++

If only what you said was true. Reality is otherwise.
Some ex-spouses will not release their claws from the ex, despite wanting to "get him out of my life", they can never seem to get enough conflict, courts, lawyers, etc.

[Barry]

If a ex spouses has agreed to end all monetary claims, the court will not hear any further claims that the spouses have for the duration of the parties' lives and even after death of one or other of the ex-spouses. Such agreements are known as Clean Breaks.

This type of financial settlement will only put in order the finances of the spouses. Future financial provision for the children of the union cannot be finalised in this way.

However in many cases such clean breaks are not possible and it is not in the wife's interest to agree to end all claims.

What happens in a clean break is usually the husbands says to the wife 'I will give you a massive one off payment if you go away and leave me in peace for the rest of my life'. For the wife having a such a one off payment may be preferable to collecting monthly checks.

However in many cases, the payment the wife would be entitled to for a clean break is so large that the husband has no chance of paying it off in one go. In such a case the wife has no incentive to 'release' her husband from his liability to maintain her for her life.

WoolSilkCotton - That is the situation I suspect that you found yourself in. You simply did not have a few million spare to get your ex out of your life!

[Jeff]

The judge wouldn't believe it.

Posted by: David | September 10, 2012 at 02:35 AM

Gentiles have enough trouble believing kapparot is real - and who can blame them?

[David]

Can someone PLEASE tell me how it is a mitzvah to not educate your children?

[David]

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/09/haredi-rabbis-allegedly-control-east-ramapo-public-school-board-block-programs-for-non-jewish-non-ha-123.html

As it now stands, many haredi boys leave high school with the equivalent of a third grade secular education.

How is this Halachically acceptable? And these pagans call themselves Jewish and religious?

[Jeff]

How is this Halachically acceptable? And these pagans call themselves Jewish and religious?

Yep. They're the real Jews. We're the impostors.

I'd like to ask the authors of the Jewish Catalogs, who promoted neo-Hasidism (because they were all under the influence of Reb Zalman, whom I do like), if they had any idea. I've actually met Michael Strassfeld two or three times, when I've been to SAJ. I wish I'd asked him. Of course, they didn't know. They believed whatevre Zalman and Shlomo told them, and they succumbed to all of the romanticized crap.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

++WoolSilkCotton - That is the situation I suspect that you found yourself in. You simply did not have a few million spare to get your ex out of your life!

Posted by: Barry | September 10, 2012 at 08:01 AM++

Barry, you are right, I did find myself in that situation, but I DID have the money for the 'lump sum buy-out of alimony', but my ex refused. She wanted the option of always being able to appeal for more. I suspect she also liked the idea of me sending her checks every month in perpetuity.

If every man had to attend classes in what he would have to deal with in case of divorce, I doubt if anyone would ever get married. Maybe that's why marriage is for the young, foolish, and starry-eyed.

[my opinion]

Dont know the story, but apparently both began in not chareidi world butended up there at the time of the divorce. The ones who will be hurt most here in the end will be the children, bc obviously its not just about secular education anymore but a tug of war with the kids in the middle... and the kids are the ones who get bent in every direction and suffer.

I am all for a proper education, but sometimes you have to know when to sacrifice. A real mother would say-- okay, enough is enough, dont cut the baby in half. And a real father wouldnt have used religion to have an upper hand.

If a whole community is praying against the mother -- you can just imagine that she has fallen out of their community. Need ore information to know why and where the mother ended up. Very sad. A tragedy with kids involved.

My concern is more -- why move so far walking distance from shul? and what else is going to go on in that home? Am only interested in the kids best interests.

Not enough information for the public to give any opinion whatsoever.

[Sarcastic Warrior]

How dare that woman take her children into the outside world!
This poor Hareidi man is just trying to protect his children. Those children should be kept in the dark like all Hareidi children.