Chabad's Yeshiva Centre In Bet Din Trouble Over Firing Of Long Time Staffer

Chabad's Melbourne, Australia Yeshiva Centre, which is embroiled in a large child sexual abuse scandal covering decades, is now in beit din trouble over the firing of a long time staffer. And as is frequently the case in these matters, Chabad's rabbis are ignoring the Chabad beit din (religious court) the fired staffer went to for help.

Mr Don Wolf
Yeshivah Centre

Dear Mr Wolf

Re Engel Vs Yeshivah

I have been asked to convey the following to you on behalf of the Beth Din:

"The Beth Din notes with dismay that you have ignored it's ikul [restraining order]. Furthermore the Beth Din has not received the name of your borer nor even the courtesy of a response from you.

As a matter of course the Sydney Beth Din regularly consults with gedolei haposkim.  In this instance it has consulted with the world renowned expert in all areas of Halacha including Choshen Mishpot, the author of "Dinei Momonois" on Choshen Mishpot and "Shu"t Shaarei Ezra" on all Shulchan Aruch, former Av Beis Din Yerushalayim , HaGaon Dayan Ezra Bazri Shlit”a who confirmed the standard practice of Botei Din to issue ikulim in such circumstances and in particular the correctness of our ikul.

You no doubt know that an ikul does not decide the outcome of the case - which still needs to be heard - but rather retains the status quo until the matter is heard, in this case via a zabl”o of chabad rabbonim.

You certainly understand that it is unacceptable that the authority of Halacha and a Beis Din is ignored by yourself and your institution, and that the resultant consequences and Chilul Hashem cannot be tolerated.

The Beth Din requires that within seven days from today, that is by 4pm Tuesday Elul 24 , either Rabbi Engel is reinstated or a binding shtar borrerus is completed and signed. If either of these two courses of action are not completed, the Beth Din will inform the Rabbinical Council of Victoria, the Melbourne Beth Din, The local Head Shluchim, Vaad Rabbonei Lubavitch in NY and Merkoz L'Inyonei Chinuch in NY, that yourself and the Chabad Institutions of the Yeshiva are "לא צייתא לדינא" and we will also consider other enforcement action available to us.

It goes without saying that the Beth Din considers your actions against Rabbi Engel as null and void and will inform the zabl"o Beth Din when convened accordingly.

The Beth Din is confident you will abide by Halacha and it will receive by the appointed time notice of the completion of a shtar borrerus or notice of the reinstatement of Rabbi Engel ( untill such shtar will be signed).

This letter has been cc'd to Rabbi Engel."

By order of the Beth Din

Rabbi Schlanger
Secretary
Sydney Beth Din

Comments

[MenAtWork]

Something is definitely wrong when one lives upside down .

[R. Wisler]

That's the beauty of baatei din'im that are constituted by this made-up Talmud religion that's called Judaism. There's no one to enforce edicts passed down by the judges as prescribed by the Torah portion of two weeks ago. Thus, anyone can ignore their edicts.

Same exact thing happened with that clown Schechter from Chaim Berlin when he was brought to beis din for a flagrant violation of Torah and Talmud law. Sonofabitch simply ignored the edict and went along his merry corrupt way.

[Bruce J Cooke]

Not long ago Z.Waks had a dispute with the Yeshivah Centre regarding the YC noncompliance with council building regulations.ZW tried to resolve this by asking the YC to settle the matter by a Beit Din(Zabloa).The YC declined ie the YC REFUSED to go to a Din Torah.Proof of what I am saying is in the pudding ie it is in writing.
Then when ZW goes to council to force the YC to comply with the law of the land he is sledged by the Dyan(not the Rabbi,the YC has not got a Rabbi).He is sledged as a mosser in a Shabbat drasha.
All this from an institution that sent out a letter recently saying "the law of the land must be obeyed & supported".
GO FIGURE.
When you are in the business of teaching morals & ethics you need to teach by example.The Rebbe spoke about this how many times?
To not do so is doubly,triply damaging.

[Bruce J Cooke]

Oh yes.I forgot to mention in the above post that Don Wolf advised ZW that he WANTED the matter to be resolved by secular law.Then when ZW does that he his called a mosser!!!!!!!!

How many averas has the YC committed here.Will some Talmid Chachim please do a cheshbon & tell me.A bit like the case of Rav Avner & Nachmanadis no?
What Mordy Engel copped was just more of the same.In a sense it really all Engels fault.Yes that's right.You see Mordy Engel chose the wrong surname.Had he chosen Glick or Wolf or Groner or...he would have had a job for life.When did a member or extended family member of the management EVER get fired??Someone please tell me.

[gezha]

they have tried to fire engel plenty of times. this is an ongoing saga, they fire him he refuses to go so they say ok fine u can stay.... nothing new. engel is a good guy let him stay and do his job, hes not a trouble maker and shame on you for thinking he does not have yichus .... he has big yichus in fact ... he is from sydney!!

[Emanuel Newgant]

Yeshiva Centre’s real nature is becoming more revealed all the time. Their hypocritical actions in all areas are disgusting.

Waks asks for Beis Din, they refuse and say go to the secular bodies. He does that and they call him, to this day, a “masser”, and spread this around the world.

All this means is that they really intend to put people in a position where they have to do what Yeshiva dictates to them, or else. It’s an immoral, unhalochic power trip.

[Lo K'darkah]

1. What is the background to this? i.e. why do they want to remove Rabbi Engel?
2. Why does this involve the Sydney Beth Din when the case is about the Yeshivah Centre in Melbourne?

[CM Brexxer]

Engel has been trying to get this before a beis din for months. Telsner first wrote a letter to support him and then under pressure from "the don", withdrew it so they could sack him.

How on earth can Telsner give any halachic ruling about how to deal with an employee? He is also an employee!!!

But don't worry - Chaim Tzvi is "dealing with it". Its like watching grass grow

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

Hypocrites!

[Emanuel Newgant]

No, it’s like watching grass rot.

[lionroars]

feldman has a g-d complex he thinks he is above the law

[Aussie]

Engel is a twit....He should just go them for unfair dismisal...

In unrelated news....

Unger catering is also in deep shit over the underpayment of staff at the scopus canteen a couple of years back....

"Fair work ombudsman" is ready to hand down huge fines over this...

Typical of Chabad how they think they above the law...

[Steven]

mr lion, Rabbi Feldman is in a different city. Yeshivah with a 'h' is Melbourne, without 'h' is Sydney.

[There are lot's of stories I could tell]

But he is right about the Feldman's.
They don't care who they screw for money. They should be in prison.

[CM Brexxer]

Aussie - Unger is typical of Chabad? I think you are more of a twit than Engel

[Aussie]

No CM punk....Unger I don't think is pure Chabad...But they cut from the same cloth...

[Aussie]

@ "There are lot's of stories I could tell"

Every dog has his day and Feldman will get his...

And if you got stories you can tell then please tell....
Though there is not much I ain't seen Pinchas do from all forms of scams to the cover up and protection of Pedo's...

[CM Brexxer]

A bit closer to the real story written by a real journalist

http://www.jwire.com.au/news/sydney-beth-din-calls-for-reinstatement-of-fired-melbourne-rabbi/28046

[Shmarya]

Posted by: CM Brexxer | September 06, 2012 at 12:31 AM

Please.

What J Wire wrote is basically the content of the email I posted many, many hours before them.

And you'll note that Telsner didn't seem to be rushing to follow the beit din's ruling until this story was made public.

What is it with Chabad? Do you people grow idiot trolls now?

Really now.

[CM Brexxer]

Shmarya - that email spread around melbourne even faster than you can concoct a connection to pedophiles. It was plenty public and Telsner is overseas anyway. But thanks for taking credit - you deserve it.

The guy who wrote that checked facts with primary sources before publishing, and didn't add the irrelevant crap about Yeshivah and the sex abuse scandal, and Chabad ignoring beis dins. Now Chabad grows idiot trolls too. Every f**king story just has to make these stupid connections, right? It's all part of some global corrupt Chabad beis din ignoring pedophile ring, right?

[There are lot's of stories I could tell]

@ Aussie,

Just more of the same sh..t. Stealing money from people by asking them to draw out the equity on their homes, borrowing on their credit cards etc etc and then not paying them back. Also not paying the teachers' salaries but drip feeding them with small amounts every so often so they don't starve.
Yeshiva should be shut down and all the properties sold and people paid what they are owed.

[Emanuel Newgant]

CM Brexxer | September 06, 2012 at 01:15 AM

So many Yeshivah trolls, hard to keep track of them all now. “didn't add the irrelevant crap about Yeshivah and the sex abuse scandal”? I don’t know where that is written, but there is a connection. YC is a law unto itself, in all fields, from the biggest to the smallest. I think they will eventually be forced to “get it” though.

[Aussie]

The guy who wrote that checked facts with primary sources before publishing, and didn't add the irrelevant crap about Yeshivah and the sex abuse scandal, and Chabad ignoring beis dins.

Posted by: CM Brexxer

Is that guy even Jewish??....I mean we all know that we write it as "G-d"....
Idiot wrote it with capitol "G" and the "O" as well...
J-wire is such a crappy site...

[Bruce J Cooke]

Is there any point in going through these motions?If things are not resolved to the likings of the Yeshivah will the ruling be binding in SECULAR law?If not who can put their hand on their heart & say The Yeshivah will abide by the umpires decision?
Someone who is very naive I would suggest.

As far as Shmarya taking credit for the about turn that is a non issue.It would have happened anyway I believe but FM didn't hurt Engels cause.
Before the internet age we would still be like mushrooms.The management would be unhindered by a pesky & informed bunch of customers.

[aussie echo]

God ol' Jwire, they of Rabbi Shem Tov fame..
http://tinyurl.com/9d8kla8

a site that is mechalel shabbos and yom tov
http://tinyurl.com/9jhayej

[jj]

engel should ignore the chabad bet din puppets/wizards , hire a lawyer and go a secular court.

engel is wasting his time fighting with these chabad assembly of wizards .

halloween is coming soon .

remember ! halloween is chabad day .
trick or treat !

[Aussie]

Just wondering in regards to teachers pays....
Does Feldman treat the secular teachers like he does the Rabbi's??.....
Got to wonder if a math or science teacher would put up with Feldmans BS or would they run to the ombudsmans office??...

[gezha]

all of feldmans teachers are haimishe people ... the richards bros, mr johns and his good old 20c can machine are long from flood st! so is much else long gone but i digress.....

[John]

gezha....

You seem to know intimate details about Sydney. You couldn't possibly be gezha.

Your handle should read "wannabe gezha" , else if you are anti "dontwannabe gezha".

[gezha]

yasher koach mr johns we are all "wanna be"s and the saddest truth is we are ALL nothing but shem yechuna'niks . its ellul have a good look

[one that was there]

While the yeshiva’s behavior is not what you expect from a “rbbes institution”, I agree with the refusal of the yeshiva to appear in front a person who straight as a rattle snake, who gave a few years ago a Hashgocho on behalf f the Sidney Beth Din for milk production in new Zealand, under paid the Mashgichim, and pocketed the money the “Beth Din” received’ into his own pocket, or in front a “Holy” person that stops the Sidney Kosher caterers under the Sidney beth din supervision using meat from Melbourne butchers, whether it is meat from Melbourne butchers, whether they are either his brothers Hasgocho, Adas or the Yeshiva Hashgochos, unless they pay him thousands of dollars in cash.

Would you trust such a person?

If the public can’t control him, may be that the tax department will do it for them/ he must be stopped.

Do we know whether it is his nose that he stuck in the wrong place, or he paid to do it?

[chaim glick]

Had he chosen Glick or Wolf or Groner this quote from bruce cook should include the line "if his name was bruce cook he would certainly have kept his job....that is if he worked in a christian school ,which is where the very outspoken and highly informed yiches bearing Bruce Cook was educated and in my humble opinion still belongs
I seriously question the validity of his comments regarding any Jewish institution ,without going into too much details he pretty much lacks the traits that torah tells us are inherent to being a jew
perhaps with rosh hashana so close its time for bruceeee to at least get a jewish name.Perhaps a wife as well,it may take away some of his built up frustrations and attention seeking,its probobly been a while i reckon bruceee

[Emanuel Newgant]

If you really are “chaim glick”, who exactly are you to talk about anyone? And if you are not cg, the tone of your comments means you could be, so again, who exactly are you to talk about anyone?

[chaim glick]

who is this chaim glick guy anyway ,he sounds cool
in answer to your not too einstein like question newgant here is a clue
sir name glick
Had he chosen Glick ....that is a quote from bruceeeeee
does that clear it up a little .its ok i'm sure that you have many other good character traits brains arnt everything mr newgant

[Michelle Stein-Evers Frankl]

If I sat on the secular court and I saw lubavich aiming my way, I'd nail the doors shut and ask the Prime Minister to declare martial law!
The last time Yeshiva (Sydney) ended up in court after years of avoiding a Beth Din was the case of rav Feldman vs. his brother-in-law, rav Joseph Gutnick. Oy.
From what I understood, there was a table set up in the corridor with deli and dips so the bocherim could nosh a bit when they needed. When it was time to pray or bentch, the crowds would run for the door, so they could pray outside of the courtroom.
Aussie courtrooms are like British ones; the judges are referred to as your worship and when one has to pass before the bench, one bows in respect. Except of course, those guys. It took me years to get used to the bowing and your worship; it felt like genuflection Ina Catholic Church . But Feldman v Gutnick was heard by a three man bench of WASPs, whose first ancestors probably came over on a convict ship: these folks didn't know from Jews, except maybe the Minhag Anglia sort at the Great Synagogue or Temple Emanuel. I am sure they had never heard Yiddish, never seen or smelled smoked fish and never an Australian kosher bagel.
And the proceedings were reported on every night on the 6 o' clock news. And even tho none of it was mine, I felt so embarrassed, for all of us members of the Tribe... And now the process begins again. Lucky us.