Audio: Dr. Daniel Berman Using Deceit To Support Haredi Mouth To Penis Circumcision Sucking Ritual

Dr. Daniel Berman caught on tape trying to mislead a room full of people. Berman first claims that there is no DNA match between any of the sickened or dead babies and the mohel who did their circumcision that included metzitzah b'peh (MBP). He says that doubt allows us to continue doing MBP, and claims that even though mohels have refused to cooperate with the heath department, and even though that lack of cooperation was, at the time, the reason there was no match. In other words, Danny Berman lied. He also claims to be involved with the cases at that time, and he gives the people involved medical advice. This is enough, I think, for Berman to be prosecuted for negligent homicide.

A. Romi Cohn doing metzitzah b'peh earlier this week

Originally published at 10:11 pm CDT 9-13-2012

Thie audio posted below is excerpted from a class given at Congregation Beth Abraham on 12-25-2005 by a Yeshiva University rosh yeshiva Rabbi Yaakov B. Neuberger. When Neuberger finished, Dr. Perl spoke about the medical dangers of MBP. Dr. Daniel Berman interrupts him and starts lying, at which point Perl exposes him.

When Berman says there are no reported cases of transmission for several other illnesses, he doesn't say that most of those illness do not have mandatory reporting, so barring a very noticeable epidemic, there wouldn't be any reported cases. (HIV is an exception, but it doesn't transmit easily through saliva, so babies would not get it easily, if at all, from a mohel. A mohel would have a greater risk of getting it from a baby, but that would not be evident for a long time after the bris, making any link difficult to prove. Past that, babies who have HIV overwhelmigly get it from their mothers; they're born with it. And that is almost always known before a bris would be done. And almost all mohels have permission to skip MBP when there is any fear of HIV.)

Secondly, his claim that there are no historical incidents of herpes being transmitted through MBP is false. It's just another word game played by Berman to deceive people. See this post for the details.

His claim that herpes could have come from the babies fathers or nurses, etc., has been disproved in the more recent US Centers for Disease Control report and was so very unlikely when Berman said this in 2005, that it would probably count as a lie in a court of law.

Berman also makes deceptive claims about the health of Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer, whose MBP killed and maimed babies. He says Fischer never had a positive test. But Fischer had never tested positive at that point because on the advice of and with the backing of haredi rabbis – rabbis Berman may have been advising –  he refused to be tested.

The first audio runs from the end of Neuberger's class onward.

The second starts with Berman.

Metzitzah B'peh Neuberger Perl Berman 12-25-2005

Metzitzah B'peh Dr. Daniel Berman 12-25-2005

Comments

[chussid]

you're welcome for the link shamaryah

[AA]

I do not get it. what exactly is this lie you are talking about ? What is not true ?
Is there any documented case of DNA match from Mohel to child ? We are talking about thousands of cases over the years. Is there a massive cover up ?
Certainly there are are visceral reasons for that make MBP abhorent to many, but stick to the facts. When people start making ad hominum attacks on those that they disagree with,like you are doing, it is probably because they are debating with emotion and not facts.

[Shmarya]

I do not get it. what exactly is this lie you are talking about ? What is not true ?
Is there any documented case of DNA match from Mohel to child ? We are talking about thousands of cases over the years. Is there a massive cover up ?
Certainly there are are visceral reasons for that make MBP abhorent to many, but stick to the facts. When people start making ad hominum attacks on those that they disagree with,like you are doing, it is probably because they are debating with emotion and not facts.

Posted by: AA | September 13, 2012 at 10:36 PM

Please.

DNA matching has only been possible for a few years. Herpes is almost impossible get, because the mohel has to tested when the virus is active, and there is no schedule for that. So the mohel either has to be very compliant and run in to the health department the minute he notices a lesion, or he has to be kept in prison until that happens.

And, as I CLEARLY noted above, the mohels refused to be tested.

If you'd listen to the tape, you'd hear Danny Berman admitting that.

The problem is not "ad hominum" attacks by me against Berman.

The problem is that Berman is lying and Jews like you are too poorly educated to know it.

[steven k]

" This is enough, I think, for Berman to be prosecuted for negligent homicide."

Thanks for the "i think" caveat.

You are getting way ahead of yourself here

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: AA
"When people start making ad hominum attacks on those that they disagree with,like you are doing,..."

AA, read the MBP articles posted in the last two weeks, and all the tons of data posted,... then come back and join the enlightened.

Hmm, cold outside. At least it's no raining. Bagel run!.

[Just Curious]

This is a nursing home doctor working for supporters of this nuttiness. Has anyone checked Berman's bosses and audited the books of the nursing home. Anyone working there should report anything untoward.
Hamayvin yovin

[Just Curious]

Just out of curiosity, who is the "Dr. Perl" who correctly puts the lie to Berman's nonsense?

[Alter Kocker]

These idiots won't stop until the day they discover one of their mohels sucking on a baby penis while jerking off. (Unless he tells them he is making his own special cum-in)

[PrettyBoyFloyd]

Simple question moron,
Is there any documented case of DNA match from Mohel to child?
Why can't you answer that simple question, moron?

[Shmarya]

Simple question moron,
Is there any documented case of DNA match from Mohel to child?
Why can't you answer that simple question, moron?

Posted by: PrettyBoyFloyd | September 14, 2012 at 09:45 AM

Please.

You're the moron.

Try re-reading the post. Do it slowly and try to process.

And add this to what I wrote there:

You could know a mohel has active herpes and that baby is not infected and no one, save for the mohel, coming in contact with the baby before or after the bris is infected. The mohel could do MBP. A week or so later, the baby could have an outbreak of genital herpes. The mohel and the baby's lesions could be tested then for a DNA match.

And do you know what, moron?

There is well over a 50% chance that there won't be one, even though we know with 100% certainty the the mohel transmitted the herpes virus to the baby.

That's because it is extremely difficult to do DNA matches for a virus like herpes.

Add to that the fact that mohels won't cooperate with the health department, and that rabbis order parents not to, either, and you make that situation far worse.

Now you answer a question for the rest of us:

Were you born this stupid? Or were you dumbed down in yeshiva?

[danny]

I'm not aware of any DNA match, PrettyBoyFloyd. I don't know if anyone has even tried, or if the DNA of a herpes virus can even be sequenced.

However, in the year 2012, the scientific and medical community understands how diseases get transmitted. MBP is possibly the worst example of improper disease prevention protocol. Most people with a smidgeon of sechel understand that placing herpetic lips on a freshly cut penis is horribly unsanitary and dangerous.

It appears to me PrettyBoyFloyd, that you are asking for impossibly burdensome proof ("DNA match"), especially if the Mohelim are uncooperative with providing access to their cold sores.

[Deremes]

We all know that people get killed daily on the streets by cars hundred times more the MBP.
Should we make a mother sign a consent that each time she goes out with a child shes putting the child in danger and if anything happens she will be charged with child abuse?
So its not similar to the mbp issue but im sure there are many examples which is similar to MBP and we don't ask for a consent
Who knows where stuff like these might lead us.

IF mbp is SO dangerous why not make it criminal?
IF its so dangerous why would orthodox Jews want to continue doing it? Perverts who say its about pedophilia need not to answer.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Deremes | September 14, 2012 at 11:16 AM

You've 'asked' these questions many times already. Every one of them has been answered.

But you, the moronic, insincere, disingenuous Satmar troll, know that.

You keep 'asking' these moronic questions because you hope to, a) create doubt in the minds of the casual reader who isn't familiar with your lies, and b) to irritate me and the rest of us that have had to read your asinine, stupid, illiterate and often false comments for years.

The facts do not support you.

History does not support you.

Medical science does not support you.

Logic does not support you.

You are killing babies and you know it, but you don't care. You're sacrificing them to protect the reputation of your rabbis and keep your hold on power.

And the God who you believe in should let you rot in hell for all eternity for doing it.

Process that.

[Deremes]

Some have been answered in circles and some answers made no sense.

Why they wont make it illegal?i think you answered the city knows that morons like me wont listen.Does it make sense not to make it criminal when it kills babies?

Im not creating doubt in anyone in here becuase most despise and hate Orthodox Jews way more then Orthodox Jews hate secular Jews.I doubt you will find ONE comment from Orthodox Jews on the entire web (don't include the Misnachlim types)with comments on secular Jews like you find on FM on orthodox Jews such as:poisn them,get rid of them etc etc.
So MBP is only one of many things they cant understand why we practice.

THESE days there are very few who would do anything to protect rabbis in the sense that what they say is like from heaven.At-least in the Satmar community it is like this.And i have no clue what holding on to MBP has anything to do with power.How silly to say that we are sacrificing babies to protect rabbis.Stuff like this you can sell to people who have no clue what observant Jews are all about.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Deremes | September 14, 2012 at 11:16 AM

Your lies, your stupidity and your disingenuously illiterate comments don't stop.

The point, you lying little POS, is that by requiring informed consent, the city has a way to find out who the infected mohels are and ban them.

Making the practice illegal doesn't necessarily provide that.

But don't worry.

From what I hear, your behavior and the behavior of your rabbinic friends will eventually create a larger ban against MBP – one that will be complete and total, and which won't be confined to NYC or New York State.

You kill babies, little man, and the civilized world will no longer look the other way while you do it.

Rot in hell.

[jancsipista]

Shmarya-I wrote here before that theese frummies like dersheker are master masochists they love to be humiliated no matter what they stick to their mindless rantings a 5 year old can differentiate that when you cause pain and physical damage to a helpless child its a no brainer but not to them they are hypnotized that its a tragedy on the good jewish people to be their coriligionists a shande.

[baba boooey]

Baabaabooooooooey

[Truth Teller]

Charedi nursery rhyme:

Romi, Romi, puddin' pie,
Kiss baby's penis and make him die!

[baba boooey]

Baaabaaaboooooooey

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: Deremes | September 14, 2012 at 11:55 AM

The comments posted about "Secular" Jews on the web are often vile and disgusting. By the by, you did forget once again to inform everyone that your community defines almost all non-hassidic Jews as "Secular?"

[PrettyBoyFloyd]

You write this " even though we know with 100% certainty the the mohel transmitted the herpes virus to the baby." with absolutely no shame. Do you think for 1 second if that were true, especially 100% true, that the government wouldn't ban it immediately?! Your such a disingenuous, consistent liar when it comes to orthodox customs, that frankly I'm surprised Chabad was able to make you see the light even for a short period of time.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Deremes
"We all know that people get killed daily on the streets by cars hundred times more the MBP."

Again with the cars. Round and round.

"Some have been answered in circles and some answers made no sense."

Speaking of going in circles. Oh, and speaking of "answers and answering", Deremes, once more from the top:

*Do you justify even one single infant death by metzitzah b’peh based on a religious law decision set by fallible human beings?.

*If so, would you vouch that G-d himself would justify the death of a single one of his children due to metzitzah b’peh?.

...And the answer is not "cars", bubbe.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: PrettyBoyFloyd
"You write this " even though we know..."

Must be so refreshing to post in a new MBP with a complete clean slate brain wipe, devoid of all the facts and links presented in the other MBP articles you already been part off already.

A new mental adventure guaranteed every time!. You are so precious when you are so fanatically oblivious. ^.^

Promise us to never change, skippy. Now go play inside a cement mixer. =)

[Lenny Lesin]

I don't think it is necessary to say suck p---s. You sound like a bitter jew. If a goy would write like that they would call him an anti-semite. Even if you have a problem with the Jewish religion per se, journalism dictates a little decorum. Wishing you a Kesiva Vchasima Tova, May G-d enlighten you so you come back into the Jewish fold.

[danny]

Lenny... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And MBP is nothing less than penis sucking performed in a group setting. Can you honestly argue that it is anything other that?

[Shmarya]

You write this " even though we know with 100% certainty the the mohel transmitted the herpes virus to the baby." with absolutely no shame. Do you think for 1 second if that were true, especially 100% true, that the government wouldn't ban it immediately?! Your such a disingenuous, consistent liar when it comes to orthodox customs, that frankly I'm surprised Chabad was able to make you see the light even for a short period of time.

Posted by: PrettyBoyFloyd | September 14, 2012 at 03:24 PM

You are an absolute moron.

You asked the following question: "Simple question moron,
Is there any documented case of DNA match from Mohel to child?
Why can't you answer that simple question, moron?"

I had already pointed out that the ability to match DNA is very new, so we're really only dealing with the last decade or two.

And I also had pointed out – and Berman agrees with this on the tape after he's outed – that the mohels were not cooperating and were not allowing themselves to be tested.

Therefore, there would be no matches.

But you asked, and I answered with more data for you:…You could know a mohel has active herpes and that baby is not infected and no one, save for the mohel, coming in contact with the baby before or after the bris is infected. The mohel could do MBP. A week or so later, the baby could have an outbreak of genital herpes. The mohel and the baby's lesions could be tested then for a DNA match.

And do you know what, moron?

There is well over a 50% chance that there won't be one, even though we know with 100% certainty the the mohel transmitted the herpes virus to the baby.

That's because it is extremely difficult to do DNA matches for a virus like herpes.

Add to that the fact that mohels won't cooperate with the health department, and that rabbis order parents not to, either, and you make that situation far worse.…From this very clear response, you cherry pick one line, take it completely out of context, and write:You write this " even though we know with 100% certainty the the mohel transmitted the herpes virus to the baby." with absolutely no shame. Do you think for 1 second if that were true, especially 100% true, that the government wouldn't ban it immediately?! Your such a disingenuous, consistent liar when it comes to orthodox customs, that frankly I'm surprised Chabad was able to make you see the light even for a short period of time. That you are not bright we can all see.

That you are not honest is also clearly evident.

You need mental health counseling. Get it.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Hasidic Penis Sucking Ritual.

That's all what it is.

[Jeff]

Wishing you a Kesiva Vchasima Tova, May G-d enlighten you so you come back into the Jewish fold.

Posted by: Lenny Lesin | September 14, 2012 at 04:19 PM

Offensively condescending. He's trying to save the lives of Jewish children. What are you doing, apart from kissing your rabbi's behind?

[Jeff]

Your such a disingenuous, consistent liar when it comes to orthodox customs, that frankly I'm surprised Chabad was able to make you see the light even for a short period of time.

Posted by: PrettyBoyFloyd | September 14, 2012 at 03:24 PM

I love shit like this, especially at this time of year, when they're supposed to be doing teshuvah. It illustrates how seriously the Orthodox take their theology.

[Jeff]

And I include the Modern Orthodox in that. They all think they're in it for the theology. They aren't; they're in it for the community. The theology is merely window dressing.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Yes indeed, the frumma can really help you see the light.

[jancsibacsi]

WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar -----Actually the frumma blind you with their light not make you see.

[Babs]

Org.......plz stop. Who cares about scientific proof. Stop allowing grown men to do this to your babies. The parents should be prosecuted.