The Common Source That Binds "Forcible" "Legitimate" Rape With Metzitzah B'peh

The source of the magical thinking that punishes women for 'enjoying' being raped and that heals babies by sucking their open, bleeding circumcision wounds.

Originally published on Saturday 8-25-2012 at 8:55 pm CDT. Edited for clarity at 7:22 pm CDT 8-26-2012.

An Analysis: The Common Source That Binds "Forcible" "Legitimate" Rape With Metzitzah B'peh
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Todd Akin, a Republican member of the US House of Representatives from Missouri and the party's candidate for US Senate, told a TV interviewer last week that "doctors" had told him that a woman's body shuts down conception when she is "legitimately" raped:

Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.

Akin's remarks sparked a national firestorm of disapproval, including calls from Republicans for him to drop out of the race for US Senate.

Akin apologized for what he called his "language," but he refused to leave the race.

He also garnered support from pro-life groups and politicians who saw little or nothing wrong in his original remarks, including former Republican presidential candidate Mike Hukabee.

The idea that a woman could not conceive from a "legitimate" rape – usually defined as a forced sexual encounter in which the woman actively resists  – is based on an ancient Roman-Greek physician's understanding of human reproduction.

Galen of Pergamon (129 CE – circa  200 CE) believed that both men and women emitted "seed" on orgasm, and that without a woman's orgasm, no "seed" was emitted by her. Therefore, without a woman's orgasm, conception could not occur.

From this concept, which was widely accepted for more than 1900 years, grew the idea that if a woman conceived from what she said was a rape, she must be lying.

Courts would come to believe that if a woman was "legitimately" raped, she would not get pregnant. (See, for example, The Encyclopedia of Rape, page 155.)

That idea was enshrined in common law in many localities, and was used to decide issues of paternity and adultery well into the early part of the 20th century, even in parts of the US.

That is the ultimate origin of the 'science' that forms the basis for at least one recent bill in the US House of Representatives which banned abortion but granted an exception from that ban to women who had been "legitimately" "forcibly" raped.

The author of that bill?

Rep. Akin. A cosponsor? Rep. Paul Ryan, the Republican's candidate for vice president.

In reality, the human reproductive system does not work the way Galen thought it did. His ideas on the subject are anachronistic, and conclusions like Akin's drawn from them are demonstrably false.

There is another idea of Galen's that, while anachronistic and demonstrably false, has been in the news lately because a group of people want an unsafe practice based on it to be protected by New York State law.

The practice is metzitzah b'peh (MBP), the direct mouth-to-bleeding-penis-suction done primarily by hasidic mohels immediately after the circumcision cuts are made, but that was once done by all mohels to all babies undergoing the ritual.

The Mishna (codified circa 200 CE – just after Galen, the greatest physician of  that era, died) mentions the practice as a health measure done to protect the baby, but doesn't explain why. It also does not specify that the suction, or drawing out, be done by mouth. The Rambam, Maimonides, writes in the Mishne Torah that, “One draws out the milah until the blood comes out of the distant places, so that no danger shall prevail."”

In his journal article on metzitzah b’peh, Mezizah be-Peh: Therapeutic Touch or Hippocratic Vestige?, published in Hakirah several years ago, Shlomo Sprecher quotes The Healing Hand——Man and Wound in the Ancient World by Guido Majno to explain why Maimonides and the authors of the Mishna thought metzitzah was a necessary health measure:

The Greek physicians studied disease primarily by giving it a lot of thought [as opposed to observation]. The result was an overall, synthetic, but wholly imaginary theory of disease, in which the basic disturbance, and therefore the treatment, was always of the same kind, even in the case of a wound. The reasoning went about as follows. In nature everything is balanced. ““Too much”” or ““too little”” causes an imbalance, which is disease. The actual components of the body that may go out of balance are the celebrated four humors: blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile. In the normal body these humors are harmoniously mixed; disease ensues if they are mixed in the wrong proportions, or if they become unmixed…[A]ny pain or lump could be explained as a ““distemper”” or disharmony of the blend… [B]lood was regarded as the worst offender, because it was liable to spill out easily and therefore to ““stagnate.”” This was supposed to be dangerous, because one of the key propositions in Greek medicine maintained that stagnating blood will decay…and in decaying, it might even become pus…the parts around the wound will develop spasms, attract blood, become soaked with it, and decay. The beauty of this thought (corruption originates around the wound), however wrong it may sound today, is that it shows how the Greeks struggled to explain the mechanism of what we call infection——or in their terms, corruption. They could have no idea that the cause was something [micro-organisms] deposited on the surface of the wound. Therefore, using their principle that ““stagnating blood decays,”” they rationalized that the trouble had to arise all around the wound: blood was attracted there, and turned into pus. This thought is stated or hinted at may times in the Collection [Hippocratic Corpus]; for instance, ““all wounds draw their inflammation and swelling from the surrounding parts, because of the blood flowing into them. In every recent wound …it is expedient to cause blood to flow from it abundantly, for thus will the wound and the adjacent parts be less attacked with inflammation …when the blood flows they become drier and less in size, as being thus dried up. Indeed what prevents the healing…is the decay of the blood.””

Sprecher goes on to point out that “this doctrine, originally formulated by Hippocrates [(circa 460 BCE – circa 370 BCE)] and his disciples, received an enormous boost through its enthusiastic endorsement by the great second-century Alexandrian physician Galen, whose works became synonymous with the practice of medicine for at least fifteen centuries.”

This theory popularized by Galen is also an anachronism. It is demonstrably false.

Even so, hasidic and many other haredi rabbis insist on following rabbinic decisions based on it.

Akin – whose understanding of rape and conception is also based on 1800 year old medical theory popularized by Galen – is an Evangelical and an ordained minister.

Akin's understanding of "legitimate" "forcible" rape is endorsed by Republican VP candidate Paul Ryan and by large swaths of the pro-life movement, just as Galen's understanding of "bodily humors" and "blood stagnation" is endorsed (unwittingly, perhaps) by hasidic and haredi rabbis.

The common thread between the two groups is more than just a bizarre fealty to 1800-year-old disproved medical theory.

The common threads are also fundamentalism, disdain for modern science, and looking at the world through magical non-linear thinking rather than through logic and empirical truth.

Comments

[Rebitzman]

While I am not entirely sure I see the connection you do, this is very thought provoking.

Nicely done.

[SkepticalYid]

The connection is obvious- both are based in discredited medical theories from the same epoch. Magical thinking is endemic in fundamentalist thought.

[Yoizel]

Shkoiach for the Shmaridiocy! Pure 100% unadulterated! What a dumbell II!

[think for a change]

I also do not see the connection, nor do I agree with your assessment.

Anyhow, the belief that the women conceive with orgasm is also found in the Talmud Niddah 31a.

[dh]

I must say that I found this very interesting. I have, of late, taken a keen interest in antiquity filth and disease as well as the absence of any real science of healing and all the idiot leaders that thought prayer and other such nonsense would cure smallpox. I've read the first fifty or so pages of a number of books on the subject, so consider myself something of an expert on ancient sewage, cesspools and the like.

I can see that nonsense only becomes frivolous with time. Two hundred years ago humankind did not know any benefit of avoiding stepping in a steaming pool of human, um, what-not pooling out their door. What is taking so long with these two nauseating ridiculous theories from men who desperately crave to rule us?

The worst sewage is the sewage of the mind. There is definitely a stench that comes from ancient and stupid beliefs left unchallenged.

[Yoizel]

Correction-sorry!
Shkoiach for the Shmaryidiocy! Pure 100% unadulterated! What a dumbell II!
08/25/2012 22:12
Yoizel

[my opinion]

"The idea that a woman could not conceive from a ...sexual encounter in which she does not orgasm"

And you really think the 18 year old yoikels in Monroe, Williamsburg and Boro Park know what an orgasm is before they've produced 5 kids minimum????

[soso]

Take a look at this scandalous piece published on a blog, where it is suspected that a woman enjoys to be raped:

http://daattorah.blogspot.ch/2012/08/defining-onas-force-by-others.html

this blog also regularly publishes comments advocating spousal rape and get-extortion.

[Jeff]

Shkoiach for the Shmaridiocy! Pure 100% unadulterated! What a dumbell II!

Does your rebbe know you're using the treife Internet?

[Jeff]

Take a look at this scandalous piece published on a blog, where it is suspected that a woman enjoys to be raped:

http://daattorah.blogspot.ch/2012/08/defining-onas-force-by-others.html

this blog also regularly publishes comments advocating spousal rape and get-extortion.

Posted by: soso | August 26, 2012 at 03:12 AM

That blog is maintained by yet another Haredi (or Right Wing MO, which is the same thing) passing himself off as a psychologist. Someone like that has about as much credibility in my eyes as would a Haredi "scientist".

[jancsibacsi]

The trade mark of the hassidim is primitivism they love that stage in civilization that is how they dupe their followers, has vuchulile they learn some science that would be the end of their way of life,they dont see how stupid they are in todays world educated people see them as stone age cave men .

[jancsibacsi]

Jef-fAbout them using the internet i can say this,every minute of their waking life is a lie they lie to themselfs their rebbes to the government to get sec.8 most probably this is how they get their wifes to bear them 8 9 or 10 children whoknows how many rape their wifes .

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Frumma yidden, like frumma goyem, seem to enjoy defaulting to the Dark Ages.

Worrying about complicated medical problems and diseases, difficult financial and social issues, dealing with foreign countries and peoples who we fear- it's all scary stuff, and it requires a lot of thinking and worrying to deal with.

It's much easier to just hand your brain over the a rebbe or gadol, or the republican counterparts such as Limbaugh, Palin, or Bachmann, and just await their instructions.

Even if you're not religious, but just simple minded and afraid of challenging your brain, religion and the politics of the religious have a lot to offer you.

Try new ideas? That is scary stuff, and could lead to change. Who needs that. Why take a chance. Just pray and obey.

Consider the writings of HL Mencken, writing in 1925 from the Scopes Trial. It's a perfect description of frumkeit.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/menck02.htm#SCOPES4

[Jeff]

Consider the writings of HL Mencken, writing in 1925 from the Scopes Trial. It's a perfect description of frumkeit.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/menck02.htm#SCOPES4

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar | August 26, 2012 at 09:57 AM

As true today as it was 87 years ago. The descendents of the backwoods cretins he describes with such derision and contempt are now running America - and they remain true to the traditions of their antecedents.

Why, indeed, read a book? If what was in it was true then everything in it was already in the Bible. If it was false then reading it would imperil the soul.

Mencken also said something to the effect of: "The 100% American is 90% moron." Every aspect of my experience during the past 55 years validates it.

[Sifter]

It sounds a lot like Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) which the elite and affluent tend to flock to these days as 'cutting edge' alternative medicine. Imbalances, stagnation.... see Ken Cohen's masterpiece 'The way of QiGong' for details.

[Sifter]

Sorry SOSO, I read that blog and did not get anything bad out of it. He's simply outlining differing viewpoints of how a rape victim is treated. Rambam in Hilchos Sandhedrin seemd the most lenient. Remember the times it was written in.. I don't think we can automatically thrust our contemporary oh-so-enlightened (for today) pre-judgements on these writings with derision. I'm sure the rabbanimim of the day were not immune to some of the horrors and violence that humankind has to offer. Reading at least that isolated blog section, I simply don't see it as a negative the way you apparently do.

[seymour]

I also do not see the connection, nor do I agree with your assessment.

Anyhow, the belief that the women conceive with orgasm is also found in the Talmud Niddah 31a.

Posted by: think for a change | August 25, 2012 at 10:16 PM

you just proofed his point and did not realize it

simply that the Talmud just was following the common believe of that time yet people like you want to cling to theories that have been disproved.

Yet when it comes to other things all of a sudden modern medicine is better

hypocritical as always

[Nobody]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Daat Torah blog post on rape, it's extremely liberal, it (the halachot there) takes the "blame" off of the raped (intercourse by force) woman completely in an extremely intolerant time, even if she admits she ended up loving it and would hire the guy to do it if she knew how good it would end up feeling.

Also, bear in mind that blog is surely one of the most serious and consistent haredi voices against haredi abuse and molestation, and came out strong and hard against Tropper. AND he's not anonymous!

Finally, the fact is, suction itself IS medically indicated and beneficial for a circumcision wound; the only problem is mouth germs which can be avoided by using a tube. So all the rest is BS, there is no claim regarding the importance or mandation of oral suction in the ancient sources (Jewish or not), only scumbag Hasidic and Haredi Humrameisters falsely claim that (because how else can they get away with sucking baby penis whilst insisting one is severely prohibited from looking at one's wife's genetalia).

[Shmarya]

Finally, the fact is, suction itself IS medically indicated and beneficial for a circumcision wound; the only problem is mouth germs which can be avoided by using a tube.
Posted by: Nobody | August 26, 2012 at 05:55 PM

That is completely and totally false.

[Radical Feminist]

One in 4 African American men carries a Y chromosome that can be traced back to European ancestry, presumably due to the high incidents of rape by slave owners against enslaved women.Is Atkins suggesting that those women weren't raped?

[Nobody]

Finally, the fact is, suction itself IS medically indicated and beneficial for a circumcision wound; the only problem is mouth germs which can be avoided by using a tube. Posted by: Nobody | August 26, 2012 at 05:55 PM

That is completely and totally false.

Posted by: Shmarya | August 26, 2012

I'll find the medical references, there is a benefit to suction in terms of better/faster healing of wound.

[Shmarya]

I'll find the medical references, there is a benefit to suction in terms of better/faster healing of wound.

Posted by: Nobody | August 26, 2012 at 06:19 PM

Sigh.

There are none.

[Jeff]

Nobody, the current practice in wound therapy is to provide constant suction, hence the use of pumps to treat wounds that are otherwise resistant to healing.

Two seconds' worth of suction accomplishes nothing.

[Nobody]

Shmarya,

Once again, I am not talking about fellatio on a wounded baby penis, I am talking about the suction itself - most recently, MIT agrees:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/itw-haiti-0414.html

Keep up the good work, buddy.

[Nobody]

Two seconds' worth of suction accomplishes nothing.

Posted by: Jeff | August 26, 2012 at 06:28 PM

The constant suction model is used on severe, larger wounds and ulcers that are resistant to healing.

Two sec. (maybe a bit more, need to look into it) suction on a small uninfected wound will accomplish indexing and draw macrophages and other healing agents to the area. Application of a special bandage of a type used now in the military (hemCon) of course appropriately sized, will produce a very fine looking result but most importantly, very quick, infection-free healing.

[Shmarya]

Two sec. (maybe a bit more, need to look into it) suction on a small uninfected wound will accomplish indexing and draw macrophages and other healing agents to the area. Application of a special bandage of a type used now in the military (hemCon) of course appropriately sized, will produce a very fine looking result but most importantly, very quick, infection-free healing.

Posted by: Nobody | August 26, 2012 at 06:57 PM

No, the pressure needs to be constant and the seal needs to be absolute.

Past that, one of the ways it probably works is by keeping the area of the wound intact and protected from motion.

It has nothing to do with why NBP was – or is – done, and there is no evidence that "2 seconds" of suction on a circumcision wound accomplishes anything positive at all.

And oral suction could never generate the force this medical device does.

Put simply, a Conestoga, a train car, and a station wagon are all called wagons and all deal with transporting goods and people. But they aren't the same thing. And to say you can hop in your Conestoga and drive from Boston to New York for the weekend and be back home in Beantown by Monday is a lie.

In the same way, MBP can't do what one of those machines can do, and those machines can't do in "2 seconds" what takes them days to do otherwise.

[rebitzman]

Once again, I am not talking about fellatio on a wounded baby penis, I am talking about the suction itself - most recently, MIT agrees:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/itw-haiti-0414.html

According to the study the suction has to be maintained for quite a significant period of time in order to be effective.

I will step away from that straight line and leave it for others - however, the bottom line here is MBP in no way maintains the "negative pressure environment" described.

[Nobody]

Shmarya,

Do you know what "indexing" means in terms of a cut type of wound?

Do you know the severity of a properly done circumcision with a blade at least as sharp as a medical scalpel, as opposed to one of the non-halachic crush-wound monstrous penile mutilations usually done in hospitals and non-traditional Jewish-style ceremonies with clamps?

Since you insist on equating all suction with oral suction, ie MBP,and MBP or not, imply brief duration suction is worthless, Did you ever ponder the possibility that saliva from an uninfected mouth might contain some kind of protective substances? Ever heard of IgA and lysozyme? Regarding pathogens present in the mouth, this is well known and dangerous, so it's not simple. But non-oral suction may confer a benefit, even if not, I find no evidence it causes any harm.

In any case, these studies showing urethral and other damages to a circumcised penis don't clearly indicate which methodology was used - clamp or knife.

The clamp method should certainly be outlawed. The traditional knife method (irregardless of suction of any kind) is obviously also a risky procedure just like any surgery. For someone not Jewish or Moslem, no reason/excuse to do this whatsoever.

What we need are real, verified statistics regarding outcomes in say, 1,000,000 or so proper Halachic circumcisions involving experienced non-diseased proficient Mohels.

Finally, in Israel most Moslems get circumcised in the first week in a hospital by - a Mohel (without priah or MBP, but tube suction is done)

[Ron Low]

Legitimate rape has a lot in common with forcible genital cutting, especially - as depicted in the article - with an adult's mouth on a child's genitals.

[PrettyBoyFloyd]

http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/ap/circumcision-pluses-outweigh-risks-pediatricians

[Jersey Mom]

"Akin's understanding of "legitimate" "forcible" rape is endorsed by Republican VP candidate Paul Ryan and by large swaths of the pro-life movement"

Please give one single citation to support that comment. In the first place, Akin's stupidity was not even the stupidity you are ascribing to him. His theory (which has a reasonable medical basis but just happens to be wrong) is that the trauma of the "forcible" rape screws up the women's endocrine system to the point that she doesn't ovulate. Trauma/stress DOES interfer with the chemical processes that lead to ovulation (as any woman trying to get pregnant knows) but if a woman is already 1-3 days from ovulation at the time of a rape, she is still going to ovulate.

That said, please name ONE SINGLE OTHER well-known pro-life person who has Akin's opinion on this.

[Shmarya]

I realize this will be rocket science to you, but try to process – the bill Akin wrote says forcible rape, Ryan backed it and lots of Republicans signed it.

As for the endocrine system, try re-reading my post.

You'll notice that I'm talking about the history of the idea, which traces back to Galen.

And just so you know, women often conceive from rape and your grasp of human reproduction isn't much better than Akin's.

[Big Bill]

"One in 4 African American men carries a Y chromosome that can be traced back to European ancestry, presumably due to the high incidents of rape by slave owners against enslaved women.Is Atkins suggesting that those women weren't raped?"

Not necessarily. Atkins might say that (following Jewish law) White/Black relations might have been willing for both parties, or may have started as rape and ended with female orgasm. Of course we are left wondering if it ENDS in her thrashing around and begging for more would it be considered rape under Jewish (or Judeo-Christian) law. How would you characterize The Rape of the Sabine Women? Or an arranged (non-consensual) Jewish or Muslim woman.