Move To The Back Of The Bus, “Shiksa”: College Student Shouted At, Spit On And Harassed By Haredim

"I was reading a newspaper and the man, a very old man with white hair, began ordering me to go to the back. He said that according to the Halacha [Jewish law] women must sit at the back and called me a 'shiksa' [a derogatory term for non-Jewish women], 'holera' [literally 'cholera,' or vile] and 'dirty.'"

Dolev Karazi

Move To The Back Of The Bus, “Shiksa”: College Student Shouted At, Spit On And Harassed BY Haredim
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

College student Dolev Karazi boarded Egged’s Number 319 in Ramat Gan, a suburb of Tel Aviv that borders the haredi city of Bnei Brak, yesterday. Karazi was heading home to her parent’s house in Nes Ziona. She took a seat near the driver and began to read a newspaper.

Soon after, several haredi men boarded the bus and, according to Karazi, one of them, an elderly man, saw her sitting in the front and demanded that the driver force her to move to the back.

"I was reading a newspaper and the man, a very old man with white hair, began ordering me to go to the back," Karazi told Israel HaYom. "He said that according to the Halacha [Jewish law] women must sit at the back and called me a 'shiksa' [a derogatory term for non-Jewish women], 'holera' [literally 'cholera,' or vile] and 'dirty.'"

"An old haredi man ordered me to move to the back. When I replied that I wasn't interested in doing that, I was shouted, cursed and spat at. I said to myself 'dear God, it's Israel in 2012, is this what you meant in your Torah?'" Karazi wrote on her Facebook page as the incident was taking place. "I stayed at the front of the bus until the end of my ride. The curses became more obscene throughout the incident. The spitting also got worse. The driver said he couldn't intervene, so I just sat there and remained silent the entire trip."

"They did not stop shouting and spitting at me for about an hour until I arrived at my parents' home. Unfortunately, there were no secular people on the bus. Except for one religious woman who told them to leave me alone, and who was quickly silenced by the men, no one was there to stand up for me," Karazi told the online newspaper.

In a statement, Egged reportedly admitted the incident took place. “The driver rejected a request by an ultra-Orthodox man to force the girl to move to the rear of the bus because he is prohibited by law from doing so."

Less than half of one percent of Egged’s are women, and none of them have ownership shares in the cooperative.

In Jerusalem, for four years Egged refused to allow ads featuring women or girls – even modestly dressed women or cartoons – to run on its buses. When Israel’s High Court of Justice was about to issue a ruling banning that practice, Egged agreed to run the ads.

Instead, it went back on its word and tried to force an advertiser to add long sleeves to women’s clothing and make other changes in the ads.

When the advertiser refused, Egged and the advertising agency contracted to handle all of Egged’s on-bus advertising decided to ban all ads with any depiction of a human being – male or female, adult or child, photograph or cartoon character.

The case is being returned to the High Court of Justice for resolution.

Additionally, incidents similar to the one Karazi experienced have taken place multiple times on Egged buses over the past several years.

In those incidents, Egged drivers most often either tried to force women to move to the back of the bus to conform with the demands of haredim, or stayed in their driver’s seat and refused to get involved at all.

Karazi is reportedly considering filing a criminal complaint over Thursday's incident.

Comments

[jancsibacsi]

This is what theese mutant chareidim jews are afraid of, a girl,they cant control themselfs from going ballistic,wow they are tottal degnerates i hope their animalistic behaviour will be stoped by rational thinking people before its too late.

[Hp]

The state needs to arrest these spitters. A few months in jail should suffice.

Undercover agents dressed as charedim would be best.

[AztecQueen2000]

I thought shaming someone was akin to murder. These people should be considered as unobservant as someone who breaks Shabbos.
BTW, kudos to the young lady. You acted perfectly through all of this.

[Althelion]

The government, municipal and national, needs to treat these incidents as the crimes that they are. This shit wouldn't fly out here in diaspora goy-America. Even in the most goyishe U.S. town, the police would arrest the harassers and the prosecutor would file charges.

Are Jewish women safer under goyishe laws?

[D]

A very elderly man with white hair. She was sitting in the front, by the door. I might have given my seat for an elderly possibly not in his right mind person. I'm sure I would - It would have been the kinder thing to do in the first place. Instead it escalated.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Dolev, you've got some guts for standing your grown (not giving in or getting off) and for going public on this atrocious incident.

May others follow your example and courage.

[Shmarya]

A very elderly man with white hair. She was sitting in the front, by the door. I might have given my seat for an elderly possibly not in his right mind person. I'm sure I would - It would have been the kinder thing to do in the first place. Instead it escalated.

Posted by: D | August 31, 2012 at 09:23 AM

Please.

There were other open seats. This is N-O-T an issue of being unkind to an elderly person.

Stop trolling.

[JK2]

Posted by: D | August 31, 2012 at 09:23 AM

Yes, blame HER.

[mp]

haredi should be banned from boarding on egged buses in israel . they should have their own only for haredi buses . and should not have any contact with the reg population .

[God is not amused]

Ladies you want to see a Haredi cry? Reach down and squeeze/pull with all your might.Disgusting yes, but totally effective, and that is what counts. Or one well placed punch/kick in the gonads the offender will not be able to utter one single word of derogatory terms.
You have to fight fire with fire. These people take a beautiful day and destroy it with their foul presence. Well, one rotten turn deserves another. Ruin their day!

[Sarek]

If she had spat back, she would have been the one arrested.

and D - great way to make up a fake excuse. Straw men around the world salute you.

[D]

Fake excuse? It's called manners...be it religious or not, man or woman...I would have given up my seat to an elderly person. Be they in their right mind or not....Perhaps the whole story is not being told. She might have said this is the reason I am giving my seat, and the only reason..though I wouldn't have myself. It would have been done with.

[Garnel Ironheart]

These girls should smarter up. Pull out the cell phone (should have the same effect as pulling out a cross on a vampire) and videotape the incident, then go to the police.

[Shmarya]

Fake excuse? It's called manners...be it religious or not, man or woman...I would have given up my seat to an elderly person. Be they in their right mind or not....Perhaps the whole story is not being told. She might have said this is the reason I am giving my seat, and the only reason..though I wouldn't have myself. It would have been done with.

Posted by: D | August 31, 2012 at 10:05 AM

Perhaps if we repeat this for you slowly, you'll understand.

THE OLD MAN DID N-O-T WANT TO SIT IN HER SEAT. HE HAD A SEAT. AS THE ARTICLE CLEARLY REPORTS, HE WANTED HER TO SIT IN BACK BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE.

There.

Isn't that better for you?

[PrettyBoyFloyd]

I saw a man do this to a woman on a bus in Brooklyn two years ago, I stood up and threw him off the bus. True story.

[D]

Point I'm making...it wouldn't have mattered whether he wanted her to or not, or shouted harsh words...no matter what he said..just shows the character perhaps of the young lady telling the story. Lack of respect for an elderly white haired man. Religious or not. Nor does it state anywhere how full the bus was nor where he was sitting.

[seymour]

Fake excuse? It's called manners...be it religious or not, man or woman...I would have given up my seat to an elderly person. Be they in their right mind or not....Perhaps the whole story is not being told. She might have said this is the reason I am giving my seat, and the only reason..though I wouldn't have myself. It would have been done with.

Posted by: D | August 31, 2012 at 10:05 AM

you are assuming the bus was full which

[ruthie]

imagine how he must treat his wife and daughters!!!
mini taliban here

[seymour]

I am not shocked at the Haredi behaviour but I am shocked at the bus driver did nothing. why not simply stop the bus and not move until they stop, or call the police, or they Egged, have a bottom like they do in NY that would flash outside call the police

[Shmarya]

Point I'm making...it wouldn't have mattered whether he wanted her to or not, or shouted harsh words...no matter what he said..just shows the character perhaps of the young lady telling the story. Lack of respect for an elderly white haired man. Religious or not. Nor does it state anywhere how full the bus was nor where he was sitting.

Posted by: D | August 31, 2012 at 10:28 AM

You make no sense at all.

If she were sitting in front, and a dozen seats around her – including seats equally close to the door – were empty, would you say the story "shows the character perhaps of the young lady telling the story. Lack of respect for an elderly white haired man"?

If you would, you have a serious problem with understanding the world around you.

The point, "D," is that the man did not want the girl's seat, other seats were open, the man had one of those other seats, and he – not the girl – started the confrontation.

He clearly ordered her to move because she is a woman, and the girl even notes that "except for one religious woman who told them to leave me alone, and who was quickly silenced by the men, no one was there to stand up for me."

Egged – which again mishandled haredi thuggery – confirms her story.

[A. Nuran]

D, stop it. You're just digging yourself in deeper. She didn't refuse to give up a designated seat to an elderly man. The chazer demanded she go to the back of the bus and the rest of those kufirs insulted and spat on her when she didn't.

[who knows]

Egged must pay a heafty fine for allowing abuse to go on for entire hour without calling police of the internal bus company security personnell.

[Alter Kocker]

Time for Israeli women to arm themselves with Tasers. One shot to one of these pricks should get the bunch to settle down. Literally, if it were my daughter similarly attacked, I would want her to force one of the despicable pieces of human feces off the bus to make a clear statement.

[ah-pee-chorus]

as Hp wrote, if the police cared they could assign a few female undercovers to ride the buses and then arrest these terrorists. the evil of charedism must be confronted. egged is part of the problem.
she should have taken pictures of the monsters and posted them for all to see.

[D]

http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=43702
Maybe it was the same bus driver. I only know that there is hate from all sides. I wish it would stop. It's the nature of this site to only post the negative from one side. I forget. I don't recall if the article was posted about the newly married Nahal soldier that got on a bus...was ridiculed by the passengers, he had to present his IDF service card, to show that he had served his full term, but the harassment continued. It goes both ways. Unfortunately, it should all stop. In this month we should be concentrating on other matters, and how we stand. Our own selves. I surely am one that needs to do that..by not visiting this site perhaps might be a start.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: D | August 31, 2012 at 12:19 PM

Please.

There is no evidence that it is the same driver.

It is not the same line and the line does not serve the same cities.

There is no evidence that anything else happened here other than a haredi attack on an innocent girl – another in a long line of similar haredi attacks.

You don't like that because it makes your community look bad.

So you do what people suffering from cognitive dissonance often to – you lie to yourself and to others to cover up the the uncomfortable truth.

God doesn't desire your lies.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

In pre independence Israel the Hagana set up local defense forces (shomrim) to protect the population from Arab violence. It is time for Shomrim 2 which will protect the population from Haredi violence.

The above Shomrim has no relation to the haredi shomrim which mostly focuses on keeping Blacks and Hispanics out of Haredi hoods.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

We had something like this in the states: the Freedom Riders.

[Ahab]

Look like she was told to move to the back of the boat not the bus. Could be the spit was the ocean mist.

[ah-pee-chorus]

i wonder why we didnt see the usual troll attacks on the victims appearance. hmmmmmmm

[westernjew]

Seemingly today, the more 'orthodox' they are, the less Torah Values that they use to guide their words and actions.

[D]

In my naivety I've always thought it was one community. You included Shmarya. What concerns me most is the hate. And the wide net cast. In both directions. ALL directions.... And what it might take..for people to realize the above
G-D forbid. And the fact that your site is linked to a very hateful site put out by others. all the best Shmarya..from one midwestern to another. Good Shabbos, I mean it...

[Hey]

She's not bad.

[MM]

"...why not...they Egged, have a bottom like they do in NY that would flash outside call the police"

Seymour, I am sure that a "bottom" flashing outside would not only summon the police, but would stop all traffic on every direction. Terrific idea! :-)

As has been said of Freud, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but in this case maybe it's a bit more than a cigar....

[PrettyBoyFloyd]

D - you are naive for believing for one second that you can have a nice heart to heart, including your "good Shabbos" with this Jew hater, who thank G-d has no progeny that'll continue to fill this world with hatred. Somwhere along the away of doing a good deed, by reporting and exposing what the Frum world refused to do on its own, Shmarya took a left turn down the road to Jew hatred. Had he stuck to that, he would have been respected by Jews worldwide.

That said, I'm surprised by the apathy of regular frum Jews that see this going down.

[seymour]

Posted by: MM | August 31, 2012 at 02:22 PM

wrong I have seen it in NYC and it di not stop traffic

[David]

She can sit On my lap.

[MM]

"wrong I have seen it in NYC and it di not stop traffic

Posted by: seymour | August 31, 2012 at 02:37 PM"

Well, New Yorkers are known for taking all manner of strange sights in stride, so maybe no one ther would pay any attention to someone flashing a bottom out of a bus. However, I assume in Israel where the sight of a little girl's toe is enough to cause a near riot, a flashing bottom would set the trashcans burning and the dirty diapers flying.

[Drive-by Dan]

I like the idea of undercover officers riding the bus.
The possibility of these extremists being body-slammed and cuffed and put in prison for being utterly stupid nikulturny fascists would be a good thing.

[Just Ruth]

To those who are attacking the character of this young woman keeping her seat... Are you female? Have you ever felt physically unsafe whilst travelling alone and among strangers? I have. On buses. For that reason if I have to ride a bus for any length of time, I prefer to sit up front near the driver. Better to stick the men at the back of the bus. If these haredi men cared ANYTHING about women and their safety, they would be sitting at the back.

[Elisheva]

"In a statement, Egged reportedly admitted the incident took place. “The driver rejected a request by an ultra-Orthodox man to force the girl to move to the rear of the bus because he is prohibited by law from doing so."

In other words, they might have if not for those pesky things called "laws." That's how deep the Haredi demand that everyone bow to them has become ingrained.

[george]

Just a note: the particular action of this white haired old man and his cohorts is not typical of all Heredi - I'd guess the disgusting ones are less than 5% of the Haredi population, I know many and none of them would tolerate this kind of abuse to women.

[dh]

Why didn't she call police?

[David]

This fine lady not only goes to college I bet she also served in the military - both of benefit to Israel - two things the charedim will never do.

The charedim should not have let the sight of themselves offend her eyes and should have got the next bus or walked.

[zionist goy]

A disgusting episode. i would hope that a few secular or orthodox religious vigilantes would break a few noses. This hatred and persecution of women is very curious as well as hypocritical to me since many of the ultras have been known to frequent Israeli prostitutes. Maybe it's self loathing? I'm surprised this kind of junk seems to be branching out to Tel Aviv environs, rather than confined to Beit Shemiesh, Arad, etc. We'll never tolerate this abuse stateside. If i ever saw a little girl spat upon.... and they call other jews nazis?

[A. Nuran]

The "squeeze the baytzim" technique works well to stop harassment. There's an even better weapon in the ladies' arsenal.

Smile sweetly. Gently touch the bearded degenerate on the face and say "I'm menstruating"

[Pearl of Wisdom]

How crazy is it to be spat upon? This poor woman, how could she have endured this for an hour? Israel needs to employ 'bus marshals' the same way they employ 'air marshals'

[Jeff]

I hope she sues Egged into the ground. I'm sick of their lack of backbone and their pussy drivers allowing the Haredim to get away with this crap.

[David]

Israeli buses should have closed circuit video to record these incidents and when they happen the driver should immediately stop, lock the doors and keep the scum detained under the police arrive.

(Note: I would have thought that Israeli buses do have security video - does anyone know?)

[Radical Feminist]

I think the time has finally come for Jewish women to wake up and realize that we no longer are part of the Jewish State.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Hmm, interesting how no one mentions the fact that there is no halocha that says that women have to be in the back, or in fact anywhere (on a bus, or any other transport, or any public place, or any private place, etc)

Making it up as they go, as usual.

Religion sucks.

[Jeff]

Israeli buses should have closed circuit video to record these incidents and when they happen the driver should immediately stop, lock the doors and keep the scum detained under the police arrive.

Excellent idea.

Hmm, interesting how no one mentions the fact that there is no halocha that says that women have to be in the back, or in fact anywhere (on a bus, or any other transport, or any public place, or any private place, etc)

Making it up as they go, as usual.

People of faith - particularly those of conservative theology - always do.

[Dov]

D's arguements are as as straw as the come. First of all, giving up your seat for someone else is a COURTESY.. nobody HAS to do it. Second of all, how do you know he wasn't spry? How do you know she wasn't pregnant or otherwise disabled? How do you know she wasn't looking out the window, sleeping, or -- as she says she was doing -- reading the newspaper (ie minding her own business)??

[Yid]

Wow!! She must have enjoyed her shower.
Any sane person would just move if being attacked.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Wow!! She must have enjoyed her shower.
Any sane person would just move if being attacked.

Posted by: Yid | September 01, 2012 at 03:58 PM

Yeah. To Beirut.

[uncle sam]

Second only to the disgusting action of the spitters is the posters who use this as an excuse to attack religious Jews and Israel in general. The tiny % of miscreants represent neither Jews nor the religious, and using them to blame Israel is pathetic. And btw,if anyone ever spits at a woman while I'm on a bus they are going to find themselves headfirst on the ground - I would hope the other posters here would act the same.

[Chicago Sam]

I agree that arresting them for 3 months would probably solve the problem.

Ultimately, I think relocating the Haredim to Gaza, Syria, or Iran would be even better. They will receive the treatment they so richly deserve.

[E]

Perhaps she should have started to sing :)

[David]

She can sit On my lap.

Posted by: David | August 31, 2012 at 02:43 PM

That comment was not from me (the regular David).

[rebeljew]

So Haredi sages ( "He said that according to the Halacha [Jewish law] women must sit at the back ...)

Please quote the siman and siyif of the "halacha" that woman must sit in the back of the bus, and its source. For a source, a demand the same source you would demand of a non-Orthodox Rabbi who quoted a "halacha", acharonim, through rishonim, through the gemorrah. If you are going to quote halachas that do not exist, you are no better than those non-Orthodox you disparage. You are minim, heretics.

Also, while you are hemming and hawing on that, please quote the halacha that permits you publicly embarrass a stranger on a bus. I have read several halachas that seem to run counter to that idea, l'fi aniyat daati. Once again, you have a nerve to publicly insult someone for a halacha that does not exist, you must justify yourself for that insult as well.

If you cannot quote these halachas and their acceptable sources, please stop embarrassing the rest of Orthodox Jewry by associating yourselves with us. Admit that you are different religion and I will say go and practice your religion in peace. But, leave Jews alone, like I would say to any other foreign antisemite.