Key Suspects In Horrific Beating Of Arab Teens Come From Haredi Families

"Impoverished neighborhood settings, combined with high drop-out rates, constitute surefire prescriptions for youth violence in any context, suggests a professional who works with young Haredi drop-outs. 'Now this rule applies to the haredim.'"

Ten days ago, a large mob of Jewish teens attacked and almost killed three Arab teens in downtown Jerusalem's Zion Square. One of the victims, Jamal Julani, was left in a coma from the attack.

Now it turns out that some of these Jewish teens, including the two lead attackers, are from haredi homes.

Tamar Rotem reports in Ha'aretz:

…The third young woman, the one who is still being detained, comes from an ultra-Orthodox family with two working parents. Until a few months ago, she studied at the Beit Yaakov seminary.

The young woman indicates, as does the prime male suspect, "A" (who also comes from an ultra-Orthodox home ), that drop-outs from religious seminaries and yeshivas should not be regarded as harmless idlers, as Haredi leaders depict them. They have a disposition for grave acts of violence, the two suspects indicate.

Indeed, impoverished neighborhood settings, combined with high drop-out rates, constitute surefire prescriptions for youth violence in any context, suggests a professional who works with young Haredi drop-outs. "Now this rule applies to the Haredim," he points out.…

"Regrettably, there are demonstrations of racism in our public," [a female haredi teacher from Jerusalem] says, noting that in this neighborhood an Arab housekeeper was forced to leave under the accompaniment of her male employer, due to fears that she might be attacked. Yet this teacher says that contempt for Arabs never translates as physical violence. "The most that happens are verbal, racist denunciations," she says.

But poverty and being a haredi yeshiva/seminary dropout aren't the only indicators for propensity for racist violence, as Rotem herself notes about a group of Bnei Akiva Orthodox Zionist teens from the south of Israel that she interviewed in Zion Square:

…"It's very good that they [the Jewish assailants] hit them," said one young man. "It's just too bad they didn't kill them," he added.

"Had I been there, I would have killed them," boasted another young man in the group.

The Bnei Akiva youths said they wouldn't have tried to stop the assailants who beat the Arabs - in fact, many agreed they would have joined the perpetrators. "Arabs are terrorists who carry out attacks and want to murder all of us," they explained

As they spoke, their counselor kept silent, never interrupting to denounce the attack.…

Comments

[Yaakov]

Korbendallas72

Your dismissal is noted. You are wrong, but I don't have any impulse to disabuse you of your mistaken ideas about me or what I meant by my comment.

[Korbendallas72]

Yaacov - US Dollars have no intrinsic value. That's not wrong. It is government fiat, money by decree. They're just coupons. Then there's the whole matter of the Federal Reserve and the way they've bailed out every corporate entity on Earth while impoverishing its own citizens...

[Eli, what me messiah?]

"However, one of the basic flaws in these grand conspiracy theories is motive."
Motive is always there. We're all self-interested.
The most basic flaws are (1) they are load of hooey that make no sense once anyone starts to plumb them for consistent thinking and evidence, and (2) there's no way on earth that anything so big and extensive could be kept a secret. Take the 9-11 conspiracy nutjobs, for example. By now SOMEONE among the thousands in the government would have spilled the equivalent of the Pentagon papers.
And, basically, the other flaw is the absolute inanity of the people who propound these theories. For example, the white supremacists who used to distribute flyers in front of my high school (this was some 30 odd years ago) about the grand scheme of the "Trilateral commission" Henry Kissinger, the IMF, and "Jews" (not sure they counted Henry once or twice)... they were not rocket scientists. I'm surprised they were able to print their semi-literate flyers.
Stupid or mentally ill people believe stupid or crazy theories.
Same with UFOs and alien abductions. People actually believe our government is capable of hiding alien findings in Roswell for over 50 years. And these are the same people who don't think the government is capable of doing anything.

[Korbendallas72]

Eli, I get where you're coming from. Lunatics and half-wits go on and on about half-baked conspiracies. Nobody has the whole truth, but there are a few key ones that unravel the rest of it, namely the financial and media control aspects. When a lunatic tells you it's raining, and you go outside and it's actually raining, does it matter that he was a lunatic?

It's not a secret that the media is controlled by a small handful of companies who are in turn controlled by a small number of men. It's an Orwellian nightmare is all. You know what's going on in Fukushima, right?

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

++...How 'bout an American administration (and/or European etc) declaring absolutely that the country stands behind Israel and will not let it's survival be endangered.
And how 'bout an American administration revealing and openly denouncing the anti-Israeli/anti-semitic propaganda constantly tought to Arabs in their schools and in the state approved media...++

It's been done by every POTUS and every American Congress. Hasn't made any difference.

Yaakov, Eli: I stand by my previous statements that G.i.n.a., Korbendallas, and LaC are all suffering from profound mental illness.

Earlier in my career, I was a physician in a mental hospital. I assure you, there is no reasoning with them. All you can do is offer them food and sit them down in front of the TV. Medication helps blunt the outbursts.

I greatly appreciate the efforts you've gone through to reason with these individuals, and the arguments set forth that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is not as black-and-white as the pro-killing cheerleaders on each side would have us believe all these years.
It is political (and sometimes literal) suicide for politicians from Israel, the USA, or any Arab country to argue as you have. And so, peace is probably impossible.

Change can come from within, resulting in cessation of hostility, such as with Egypt and Jordan. Northern Ireland is also such an example. Such change requires less orthodox religion from both sides.
Of course, the orthodox of each religion can't stand peace.

[Korbendallas72]

Or, you can let WSC do your thinking for you. Do you know what's going on in Fukushima?

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

"There is no human problem which could not be solved if people would simply do as I advise."

- Gore Vidal

[Korbendallas72]

I'd say that's a yes.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Korb, if a lunatic says it's raining outside, I'll check myself to see if they are right or if it's just another delusion. No, I don't know what's happening in Fukushima, but I'm happy to let WSC do my thinking. Please fill him in and I'll follow up later as I've already frittered waaay too much of my day on FM....

WSC, while I can't speak for God(ina), Korb, or LaC, I agree completely on the mental illness angle. I have a close family member who suffers from paranoid delusions, seeing nefarious plots and conspiracies in everthing. You can't even try to reason with her.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

The rats are fleeing the sinking ship:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/08/
christie_adviser_crazy_to_sugg.html

Korbendallas, I would agree with you if you're proposing that we are not getting the truth about the extent of the catastrophe in Fukushima and the global danger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=fukushima

I will no longer eat fish, especially tuna, if it's from Pacific Ocean origins. I check cans of tuna and only buy that which is from the Mediterranean area, even thought it's more expensive. There are a lot of Italian speciaty stores here in the NJ/NY area, and that's a good place to find such tuna and sardines.

[Yaakov]

Eli:

There is no motive to enslave the population as the various current theories and their UN/FEMA camps, etc. propose. Of course there is a motive for personal gain, but that motive is mutually exclusive with preventing the general population from prospering. So, "no motive" in my comment isn't what you presented it to be.

[Korbendallas72]

Korb, if a lunatic says it's raining outside, I'll check myself to see if they are right or if it's just another delusion. No, I don't know what's happening in Fukushima, but I'm happy to let WSC do my thinking. Please fill him in and I'll follow up later as I've already frittered waaay too much of my day on FM....

Wow so you're kind of Haredi yourself, I guess. Letting other people do yoir thinking for you. Trusting someone else to know a simple fact better than yourself. Do you eat a lot of seafood?

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/bill-nye-science-guy-hits-evolution-deniers-123047918--abc-news-tech.html

[Korbendallas72]

WSC, yes this is what I'm suggesting. What kind of framework do you think must be in place to facilitate such a global news blackout? You're aware of what the EPA did with RadNet after 3/11?

Yaacov -
There may be a motive if we all stop working or start rioting over skyrocketing food prices or something like that. It depends on how bad the inflation gets but we're almost into banana republic territory with the QE at the Fed already.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

Korb, would you allow me to buy you a sense of irony?

[dh]

WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar | August 27, 2012 at 09:13 AM

WSC, see this is why I have removed you from my Will. So tell me about "them". Were "them" all diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia? Any of "them" autistic? Were some of "them" on the bipolar spectrum? Any major depressives amongst "them"? Major psychosis,PDD, BPD, DPD, ABC, MD, blah, blah?

It's a good thing you don't enjoy Beethoven, Keats, The Gettysburg Address, Hemingway, Dickens, etc. etc. etc. because all of "them" were "them". If their physicians doped "them" up and plopped "them" in front of the television so much of our lives would have been stunted.

Until and unless you, my former beneficiary,learn to listen to "them" they will never learn to listen to you.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Korbendallas, please, make yourself a nice sandwich (tuna from Spain) and watch some TV. Wash it down with a Catalan beer from Spain.

http://www.tienda.com/food/products/se-39.html?site=1

It's not difficult to stonewall journalists trying to get info from Fukushima. You don't think the Japanese government wants any bad news to leak out, do you? I don't see any conspiracy theories beyond the Japanese borders, although I'm sure other nuclear facilities don't need bad news coming from this disaster, either.

Reminds me of politicians after the BP spill in the Gulf trying to convince the public that everything is fine. Republicans said there was no environmental impact whatsoever. A few weeks later, Pres. Obama was swimming in the Gulf in a show of support for the local tourist industry.

[who knows]

Yaakov, are you insane of just forgot to take you pills today?

Here is what you've wrote:

"In 2011, 21 people were killed by Palestinian terrorists. That same year, 384 people died in automobile accidents. Israelis are more of a threat to themselves than Palestinian terrorists are! "

In the same year that 9/11 killed about 2800, more than 30,000 were killed in car accidents in the US. Are americans more dangerous to themselves than the terrorists?

Are you an idiot or you think that your readers here are idiots? What is it Yaakov?

[dh]

He thinks readers here are idiots, which is not altogether unfounded.

[who knows]

"Look at Walid Shoebat or Bridgett Gabriel so they should be persona non grata, because? "

Bridgett Gabriel is not Palestinian, but a Lebanese Christian. In fact she was traumatised for years and almost killed by the muslim Palestinians. Why do you consider her a representative of Palestinians I have no idea.

Walid Shoebat is a son of American christian mother and is married to American christian wife and is christian himself. Why do you consider him to be a representative of muslim Palestinians I have no idea.

[Korbendallas72]

Eli, I wouldn't know what to do with it.

WSC, you don't think the NEC, EPA, or General Electric have a huge stake in making sure the sheep stay asleep?

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

++dh | August 27, 2012 at 12:29 PM++

I was counting on your inheritance for my retirement. I guess I'll have to keep working until I'm 80.

My sensitivity and devotion to the patients I dealt with back then was- and remains- second to none. It was a facility for those who were too far gone. It was not a place in which to find authors and composers. Were there some misdiagnosed, and potentially within reach? I don't know, but every doctor and therapist working there was a decent devoted person, trying his or her best.
Please give some of us doctors more credit. Try visiting a long term care psychiatric facility; do some volunteer work there for a few weeks, and let me know what you discover.

Korbendallas, I would agree that covering up the extent of the Fukushima catastrophe is in the best interests of big oil, big business, big nuclear, the USA, Canada, all of southeast Asia, etc. Imagine the impact on the West Coast and Hawaii if it were revealed that all seafood, and the ocean water itself, was practically glowing with nuclear toxins.
Just how much of a coverup conspiracy am I willing to sign on to? Well, you're starting to push me in that direction.

[who knows]

Yaakov, here is another lie that you've chose to "profess", when talking about the incident of lynching 2 Israeli soldiers who accidentally drove into Ramallah by taking a wrong turn:

"But, that wasn't "Palenstinians", it was a particular group of zealots, at a time when Israelis were killing people around them with bombs and guns."

Israelis did not bomb Palestinians at the time.

[No Light]

WSC - the patients with delusions of grandeur were much harder to deal with, in my opinion, than the paranoid ones.

Printed info from trusted sources could quell fear of a network of spy cameras hidden in teeth, but trying to convince three guys at once that they're not Jesus? Not fun.

At one point we had Jesus 1, Jesus 2, Isa (Muslim Jesus), Mohammed, and Vishnu. I was tempted to see if there was a Kali on the women's ward, to rain down some destruction and shut them up for a bit.

Unfortunately they were all Marie Antoinette or Girl!Jesus. Aiii.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

WSC, don't go there. The various regulatory authorities, GE, etc, all stand to lose more via nondisclosure . People go to jail for hiding things like that.
That's why the tendency today is disclose and ask for leniency.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Eli, true. I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory stuff about anyone outside of Japan being involved in any organized coverup.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

No Light, LOL!

[Korbendallas72]

WSC, don't go there. The various regulatory authorities, GE, etc, all stand to lose more via nondisclosure . People go to jail for hiding things like that.
That's why the tendency today is disclose and ask for leniency.

Posted by: Eli, what me messiah? | August 27, 2012 at 04:42 PM

If there's anything the financial meltdown can teach us, it's that the various regulatory agencies have failed and the foxes have been guarding the henhouses. The amount of data and the severity of the conditions in Fukushima are inhuman. They don't want this to get out into the public consciousness because it becomes painful to ignore the meaning of the media blackout. Simply put, Eli... if you knew the consequences of what's actually occurring in Fukushima, you'd drop what you were doing and become an anti-nuclear activist. The depth of the corruption and the consequences of three nuclear melt-throughs simply for the sake of plutonium production for nuclear weapons would be too great to bear.

Or, you can continue to pretend the regulators are looking out for you... and permit the use of the word conspiracy to dictate what is and is not acceptable thought.

[Eli, what me messiah?]

No, Korb, I don't trust the regulators to look out for me. More simply, I trust them to look out for themselves. Meaning, they won't throw themselves under a bus (risking criminal consequences) by lying just because it serves someone else's nefarious plans.
If this were some totalitarian state, I'd have a different view. But in this case you've got prosecutors who want to make a name for themselves, journalists dying to scoop whatever they can, and individuals pooping in their pants with fear over the criminal consequences of NOT disclosing any mistakes they might know about.

[dh]

@ WSC "Try visiting a long term care psychiatric facility; do some volunteer work there for a few weeks, and let me know what you discover."

I have, I do and I will continue. What I have discovered in states bordering the Pacific as well as the Atlantic is primitive. Horrible abuse not only with patients but with each other! Illiterate stupid mental health workers, many vengeful, uncaring seemingly uneducated doctors as well as nurses. I said 'seemingly' because they may have some knowledge as well as access to it, but they do not apply it, probably for more than one reason.

I have been horrified. I remain horrified. I see no reason not to continue to be horrified.

This is no mass pronouncement. Not everyone, I'm sure. Because nothing is 100%. Some wonderful people work in that shattering milieu but it does not translate in appropriate care and treatment that I could ever attest to.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

++the various regulatory agencies have failed and the foxes have been guarding the henhouses++
++if you knew the consequences of what's actually occurring in Fukushima, you'd drop what you were doing and become an anti-nuclear activist++

So Korbendallas, I get the impression you are no longer a Republican.

[dh]

Lol, WSC

[Korbendallas72]

No, Korb, I don't trust the regulators to look out for me. More simply, I trust them to look out for themselves. Meaning, they won't throw themselves under a bus (risking criminal consequences) by lying just because it serves someone else's nefarious plans.

You know nobody's gone to jail for the financial meltdown, right? What consequences?

[Yaakov]

who knows:

Yes, that's an astute observation. It is the same effect. An over-estimation and over-response (at the cost of blood and treasure) to a (terrible, tragic) event, and the ignoring of something far more actually dangerous to life and limb because it is "ordinary".

The irony is that the terrorists actually got what they wanted: a US in reduced condition due to overspending, many more Americans dead fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a population living in a virtual police state thanks to the "justified" expansion of government power.

[ultra haredi lite]

Death by wordsmithery!

[Drive-by Dan]

Yaakov, I agree with much of what you say, as usual. Only small errors can I find in your posts.
I would nitpick but this thread is too long already.
I will only say that you make baseless assertions in small yet important places, upon which I will not bother you with today, but maybe I will bother you about them later, since they are almost sure to arise again in your postings.