Haredi Soldiers Get Illegal $5,000 Grant While Secular And Zionist Orthodox Soldiers Get Nothing
An American philanthropist has allegedly violated Israel Defense Forces rules by giving direct grants of $5,000 to haredi soldiers in the Netzach Yehuda battalion while ignoring non-haredi soldiers in the rest of the Kfir Brigade.
Haredi Soldiers Get Illegal $5,000 Grant While Secular And Zionist Orthodox Soldiers Get Nothing
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com
An American philanthropist has allegedly violated Israel Defense Forces rules by giving direct grants of $5,000 to haredi soldiers in the Netzach Yehuda Battalion while ignoring non-haredi soldiers in the rest of the Kfir Brigade, The Jewish Press reports based on a report first published by the Israeli news website Walla. The money should have gone to the IDF’s Association for the Wellbeing of Israeli Soldiers or the LIBI Fund. The IDF’s Office of Human Resources would then have disbursed the money equitably.
Soldiers in the Kfir Brigade sent a letter of complaint to IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz yesterday about the discrimination between soldiers serving in the Haredi Netzach Yehuda battalion and non-haredi soldiers.
Haredi soldiers reportedly received a one-time grant of from the philanthropist that included $3,000 towards home furnishings and another $2,000 for their families’ general needs. Married secular soldiers got nothing.
Kfir Brigade soldiers reportedly claim that senior Netzach Yehuda Battalion officers attended a charity event for their battalion’s soldiers which took place two months ago at a Jerusalem hotel.
“The outcome was that married, non-Haredi soldiers do not receive a $5,000 grant and that the IDF supports this discrimination,” one of the brigade’s non-haredi soldiers reportedly said.
IDF sources told Ynet that the charity event and the grants that grew from it are being investigated by the secretary of IDF High Command.
Forgive me for not understanding, but what exactly is the crime? Can a person NOT give a grant to whom he wants, even if it is unfair?
Posted by: ultra haredi lite | August 22, 2012 at 04:55 PM
Forgive me for not understanding, but what exactly is the crime? Can a person NOT give a grant to whom he wants, even if it is unfair?
Posted by: ultra haredi lite | August 22, 2012 at 04:55 PM
interesting question
Posted by: seymour | August 22, 2012 at 04:58 PM
The IDF spokesperson responded: “When the complaint letter is received, it will receive a direct reply. Army orders forbid direct contributions to individual soldiers or a unit which do not go through the Association for the Wellbeing of the Soldier or the Libi Fund.”
Posted by: seymour | August 22, 2012 at 05:00 PM
UHL, no military wants outsiders to be giving money selectively to their troops, since it gives those outsiders undue influence on the soldiers they are supporting.
In other countries where coups and inter-force conflicts are more common this is a huge problem.
What would you think if a some rich Saudi was giving money just to Muslim soldiers here in the US?
Posted by: bulan | August 22, 2012 at 05:04 PM
I think most countries would be (or should be) uncomfortable with foreign citizens giving direct grants to soldiers, even if the foreign citizen was a citizen of an ally and even if the grants were given by co-religionists. For example, can you imagine Canadian evangelical Christians giving direct grants to evangelical American soldiers. Or if that doesn't bother you, how about Saudis giving direct grants to Muslim US soldiers. Or German neo-Nazis giving grants to the many white supremacist soldiers serving in the US armed forces.
To me, it's not just an issue of discrimination. It's an issue of security and foreign influence.
None of this is to equate the unnamed US donor with any of the above scenarios, but it's helpful to think of other contexts when considering why certain actions might be objectionable.
Posted by: Jason | August 22, 2012 at 05:12 PM
If the payments contradict IDF policy, then the soldiers must be compelled to remit it to the IDF for need funds. Whether or not the funds have been spent by the soldiers or their families, in the name of fairness to all troops, the Haredi soldiers cannot keep the funds.
If the Haredi soldiers cannot pay it at once, then their pay will be reduced commensurately.
Posted by: Alter Kocker | August 22, 2012 at 05:36 PM
An American philanthropist has allegedly violated Israel Defense Forces rules by giving direct grants of $5,000 to haredi soldiers in the Netzach Yehuda Battalion
What chutzpa, taking his own money and spending it as he wished - how un-American!
hat kind of a nutty rule did the IDF cook up, telling outsiders who they may give their money to, I guess they didn't get a kickback the way it was done.
What if he did give it to the secular Zionists, maybe some should go to the Arabs as well?
Imagine if here in the US the government would tell people just who they may give their charity to. I don't think that will go over very well.
Posted by: Nathan | August 22, 2012 at 05:54 PM
AK
You have any idea how much a draftee in Israel makes?
Anyway the salary of a married soldier goes to the wife's bank account.
Posted by: Jake | August 22, 2012 at 06:00 PM
It is forbidden to give money to Hareidi soldiers, as this is clearly some sort of bribe and violates the halacha.
Posted by: Rabbi David Wolpe Shlita | August 22, 2012 at 06:10 PM
What kind of idiots posting here cannot understand that giving money like this to soldiers based on their religious observance is a threat to discipline and morale.
Do you think that any decent army in the world allows cash donations that go only to Christian soldiers and no-one else, or just to Muslim soldiers? Let alone cash coming from someone in another country?
Get a clue morons!
Posted by: Dovid | August 22, 2012 at 06:33 PM
Good idea! For the right amount of guilt, chareidim will become soldiers.
Posted by: Bas Melech | August 22, 2012 at 06:34 PM
Jake
I don't give two shits and a rats ass how much they make. Point is that the Haredi troops got money while the seculars did not. That is neither fair nor does it improve morale, instead it is divisive and creates two levels of soldier.
Therefore the Haredim MUST give it to the IDF to be equitably distributed.
Posted by: Alter Kocker | August 22, 2012 at 06:34 PM
Jake
I don't give two shits and a rats ass how much they make. Point is that the Haredi troops got money while the seculars did not. That is neither fair nor does it improve morale ...
Therefore the Haredim MUST give it to the IDF to be equitably distributed.
Posted by: Alter Kocker | August 22, 2012 at 06:34 PM
I get it. In a school it is not fair or moral for a child of a wealthy individual to get a large allowance enabling that student to purchase better school items, nicer clothing and tastier foods. I think the school should share all students personal funds and redistribute it among all the classmates equitably.
It is the right thing to do!
Posted by: Nathan | August 22, 2012 at 06:52 PM
I meant to write gelt,not "guilt".
For the right amount of gelt, chareidim will become soldiers
Posted by: Bas Melech | August 22, 2012 at 07:35 PM
Rivka Gornall Leiner https://www.facebook.com/rivka.leiner·
comments under the original article in the JewishPress.com:
Hesder is now letting students study for their degree instead of Torah when not with their units in a university classroom (not in spare time open university), something no charedi or secular soldier can do. Upset? Why begrudge what others have. None of my boys, in Nachal Charedi, rab banut or kravi got anything special.
Also, the LIBI organization does absolutely nothing for religious and esp charedi soldiers. Ask the man who has been fighting for years, a wounded vet, for a few hours a week of men only swimming in the Bet HaChayal pool.
My kravi son got 2 weeks in a non mehadrin hotel on the beach. He had nothing to do as his buddies were out cruising for girls and partying.
Get the facts out, investigate when writing an article like this.
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 3 hours ago
Posted by: A Yid | August 22, 2012 at 07:48 PM
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Posted by: Nathan | August 22, 2012 at 08:13 PM
You see this just proves how the whole drafting charadim thing is B.S.
In the US there are plenty of non profits aimed at helping specific units in the Military.
Posted by: TheRealJoe | August 22, 2012 at 09:41 PM
Posted by: Nathan | August 22, 2012 at 06:52 PM
Comparing two totally different scenarios isn't an effective argument. It's just specious.
Posted by: SkepticalYid | August 22, 2012 at 09:44 PM
Nathan, TRJ - were you guys born that ignorant or did you have to work at it?
It's against the law because it divides the loyalty of the soldiers. It gives the outsider undue influence and is sudden death to military discipline.
No, the US military does not permit outsiders, let alone foreigners, to selectively supplement the salaries of their chosen units, least of all by paying the soldiers directly.
Donating equipment, cookies or whatever to the Department of Defense to be given to soldiers at the DoD's discretion? Certainly. There are all sorts of programs for that. Saying "I want to give money directly to the soldiers of Echo Company"? Any officer would say "You're out of your goddam mind!"
Posted by: A. Nuran | August 22, 2012 at 09:54 PM
Simple, for the simple minded:
*A civilian Foreign national approaches, in our outside their Military installations, the Military IDF personnel of a combatant unit, more specifically, its Religious individuals only, on the tune of $5,000 (NIS20,000), causing a rift and a sense of mistrust between them and the unit's Secular fellow soldiers, of what it is supposed to be a cohesive battle brigade.
This event is prohibited by IDF standing orders, which states that any direct contributions to individual soldiers or a unit must be processed by the Aguda Lemaan Hachayal, for even distribution among the whole of the unit.
Simpler still:
*A Foreign civilian made illegal discriminatory contributions, causing resentment among Israeli IDF soldiers among belief lines, undermining the brigade's combat effectiveness.
Barebones:
*Foreign national destroys an IDF military unit's discipline via Religious bribes.
Justify this sabotaging meddling now.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 12:27 AM
Posted by: TheRealJoe
"You see this just proves how the whole drafting char(e)dim thing is B.S."
Joe, Military story time: The unit in question is the "Netzach Yehuda Battalion", an all volunteer (not drafted) Hasid IDF brigade.
The illegal use of those funds screwed up the discipline of those Hasid soldiers. Leave it some some moron to sabotage a, until know, perfect integrated idea.
If you were trying to make a point, sorry Joe, it was an unrelatable, inane one.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 12:39 AM
A. Nuran can you at least understand the other point of view as presented in the comment I quote above? A mother of religious soldiers points out that IDF's favored non-profit LIBI fund appears to have programs geared for the secular soldiers not the chareidi ones. So perhaps the philanthropist should have worked thru the system , but may be he was rebuffed and decided to offer a direct grant. In any if the current regulations are to remain in place the system must be changed to accommodate the needs of charedi soldiers.
Posted by: A Yid | August 23, 2012 at 12:41 AM
Bob - you'd have more chance of reaching them if you stuck to monosyllabic words.
Remember, the Trollover Yeshiva does not teach using goyishe practices such as logic, critical thinking, reading comprehension, or morality.
You're dealing with people who'd probably wet themselves if they tried to approach "What came first, the chicken or the egg?", but with the caveat that they can't just say "God did it".
Posted by: No Light | August 23, 2012 at 12:59 AM
Oh, I understand it. I also understand that the reasoning is false, the practice is corrupting and fincompatible with military discipline, and the "philanthropist" committed a crime as may have officers who disbursed the illegal funds.
A foreigner undermined the IDF. He knew or should have known that what he did was wrong as well as illegal.
If the Charedi units think they're being treated in a discriminatory fashion there are avenues to redress the grievance from avenues within the chain of command to political pressure within the government. Choosing to ignore the law, especially for soldiers and officers under military discipline is not a minor thing. It cuts at the heart of any decent Army.
The Charedim need to understand that they are just like everyone else in the IDF. The laws DO apply to them.
Posted by: A. Nuran | August 23, 2012 at 01:02 AM
Posted by: A Yid
"the LIBI organization does absolutely nothing for religious and esp charedi soldiers."
First: Reference links?.
Second: IDF command indicated that the funds would go through the Aguda Lemaan Hachayal or LIBI, to then passed along to to the IDF’s Office of Human Resources for redistribution via its disbursing office.
So, LIBI as squat role one to who, or whom not, the money would go through to, so drop the "the LIBI will not give the grants to Religious or Charedim soldiers because of (inset B.S. reason here)!" angle.
Third: "Get the facts out, investigate when writing an article like this":
"The Secretary of the IDF High Command is investigating the, as per IDF standing rules, direct and illicit monetary contribution to Hasic soldiers based on Religious grounds." (http://goo.gl/p3b0M)
Sorry, bubbeh, the story is still about a US national possibly violating Ru'ah Tzahal, not Religious persecution.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 01:13 AM
Posted by: A Yid
"A mother of religious soldiers points out that IDF's favored non-profit LIBI fund appears to have programs geared for the secular soldiers not the chareidi ones. So perhaps the philanthropist should have worked thru the system , but may be he was rebuffed and decided to offer a direct grant."
Once again, the funds given to LIBI or Aguda Lemaan Hachayal are redirected to the IDF’s Office of Human Resources for redistribution via its disbursing office.
More concise: These organizations have no role of how this "philanthropist" grants would have ended up on the pockets of any IDF soldier, no matter what sex, marital status, or Religious beliefs.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 01:21 AM
A. Nuran a US resident is not expected to know
minute details of IDF regulations or Israeli laws for that matter. I am sure he was approached by the fundraisers affiliated with Nachal Charedi who themselves may or may not have known that regulations are being violated. In any case we all know no matter how much you and others let of steam in these comments what's going to happen in the end is that army will either change the regulations or how it spends the money. Nothing else can be expected as the IDF is not going to want to repel future donors nor cause another coalition crisis in the government so all of you may go to sleep in peace and wait for another "battle" to fight.
Posted by: A Yid | August 23, 2012 at 01:27 AM
It is a very serious matter how donations are made to IDF units and individuals. There needs to be accountability and you can give to specific units if you go through the correct organization. Things need to be recorded and kept track of to make sure nothing dodgy is happening.
People who don't understand this might not understand what is wrong with slipping envelopes stuffed with cash to a politician, because after all you could have donated through regular means.
Especially in an army where discipline and regulations are extremely important the officers should have known better than this.
Having dealt with projects (from the army side of things) in the army funded by philanthropist money, I can tell you there is a lot of planning and coordination between the AWIS and libi funds, the ministry of defense and the army about how to make best use of donations in an equitable manner that will respect individual donor preferences.
Posted by: seraphya | August 23, 2012 at 02:51 AM
Posted by: A Yid
"a US resident is not expected to know minute details of IDF regulations or Israeli laws for that matter."
Jewishpress.com (a Jewish news site, quoting an Israeli Military official):
"The Secretary of the IDF High Command is investigating the, as per IDF standing rules, direct and illicit monetary contribution to Hasic soldiers based on Religious grounds." (http://goo.gl/p3b0M)
"I am sure he was approached by the fundraisers affiliated with Nachal Charedi who themselves may or may not have known that regulations are being violated."
"I am sure", imagined personal conjecture, not fact.
"What's going to happen in the end is that army will either change the regulations or how it spends the money."
Presumption. No need to fix something that's not broken. If anything, "violators" will be informed on how things are done properly (common practice).
"Nothing else can be expected as the IDF is not going to want to repel future donors nor cause another coalition crisis in the government."
Pretentious pontification not based on fact or reality, implied threat of political Religious confrontation in the Knesset if the IDF doesn't knuckle down.
"So all of you may go to sleep in peace and wait for another "battle" to fight."
Dismissive "I win!" closing argument. Expectance of prevailing on the ongoing argument?: Not achieved.
Nul point, skippy.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 03:18 AM
Posted by: seraphya
"Having dealt with projects (from the army side of things) in the army funded by philanthropist money, I can tell you there is a lot of planning and coordination between the AWIS and libi funds, the ministry of defense and the army about how to make best use of donations in an equitable manner that will respect individual donor preferences."
Thank you for the direct personal input on the matter, seraphya. It really helps on the discussion. ^.^
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 03:22 AM
What chutzpa, taking his own money and spending it as he wished - how un-American!
hat kind of a nutty rule did the IDF cook up, telling outsiders who they may give their money to, I guess they didn't get a kickback the way it was done.
What if he did give it to the secular Zionists, maybe some should go to the Arabs as well?
Imagine if here in the US the government would tell people just who they may give their charity to. I don't think that will go over very well.
Posted by: Nathan | August 22, 2012 at 05:54 PM
Noch a meshuganeh troll.
Posted by: Darth Zeidah | August 23, 2012 at 09:12 AM
Who is this dork Bob Guthrie?
Posted by: Darth Zeidah | August 23, 2012 at 09:15 AM
Posted by: Darth Zeidah
"Who is this dork Bob Guthrie?."
Not very keen on basic civility and social manneers, are you, Bud?. Nice to meet you too, by the by. =P
Who me?. At the present time, somebody not very enthused to have an US "philanthropist" bypassing the Israeli IDF command by directly, or indirectly, funneling illicit monetary contributions to bribe only the Hasid IDF soldiers in the Netzach Yehuda Battalion, causing friction between them and their fellow non-Hasid IDF brigade team mates, to such a degree to undermine the Military effectiveness of the unit.
Thus my comments on the subject posted above. You?.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 10:51 AM
Charity starts at home - There's over 200 000 homeless vets in this country ,...
Posted by: snag | August 23, 2012 at 11:54 AM
Yes Snag, and there are beautiful grounds that were set aside for veterans and once were used to house veterans that now, still grand, are vacant but off limits for veterans. It's disgusting.
They give, sometimes with life and limb, and we let them sleep in the gutter. The United States of Amnesia.
The dearth of veterans in the ultra orthodox communities is an extraordinary weak link.
Posted by: dh | August 23, 2012 at 12:48 PM
dh - So much for gratefulness for a roof over their heads to those that made it possible to make those millions ,...
Posted by: snag | August 23, 2012 at 04:34 PM
Was going to respond to A Yid's mediocre attempts at sophistry and emotional manipulation. Thanks to Bob Guthrie for sneaking in ahead and saying it so well
Posted by: A. Nuran | August 23, 2012 at 04:35 PM
He didn't give it to Haredi soldiers (haredi soldiers - judging by all that is written isn't that an oxymoron???). He gave it to the Netzah Yehuda battalion (which is part of Kfir). Anyone can serve in Netzah Yehuda as anyone living in Israel knows. The fact that most of the people serving there are religious is because they want to serve without female conscripts. Anyone can join them and get the "donations" too.
Posted by: Klotz Kashe | August 23, 2012 at 08:09 PM
Posted by: Klotz Kashe
"He didn't give it to Haredi soldiers."
*Jewishpress.com: "An American philanthropist has allegedly violated Israel Defense Forces rules by giving direct grants of $5,000 to haredi soldiers in the Netzach Yehuda Battalion while ignoring non-haredi soldiers in the rest of the Kfir Brigade."
"(haredi soldiers - judging by all that is written isn't that an oxymoron???)."
Way to dismiss AND insult the only Hasid that have the testicular fortitude to voluntarily join and serve in the IDF, Klotz
"He gave it to the Netzah Yehuda battalion."
*"American philanthropist... giving direct grants of $5,000 to haredi soldiers."
"Anyone can join them and get the "donations" too."
*"American philanthropist... giving direct grants of $5,000 to haredi soldiers... while ignoring non-haredi soldiers in the rest of the Kfir Brigade."
Read. Comprehend what transpired. Then comment, Klutz.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 23, 2012 at 10:18 PM
@ Shmaryah:
How can you allow a single person to take over a thread? Do you no longer exercise any editorial control over what appears here?
If you think that shock jocks bring in a larger footfall to your site please think again
DZ
Posted by: Darth Zeidah | August 24, 2012 at 05:49 AM
I agree, regarding one humorless egomaniacal stupidly pedantic verbose condescending poster of minutiae jibberish, but Bob, sometimes resident jelly doughnut in a bag of bagels, to his credit doesn't pack up his toys and run home when the throngs aren't bowing and scraping and he does maintain a humorous humility.
Posted by: dh | August 24, 2012 at 11:52 AM
Hmm, Jelly Dougnut,...
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 24, 2012 at 06:48 PM
Althought a New York style Lox baggel with cream cheese (extra lox), pickle on the side, and a bottle of Dr. Browm's cherry soda would hit the spot tonite.
Dinner settled. ^.^
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | August 24, 2012 at 06:57 PM