Artscroll, The Rabbis, The Talmud, The iPad And The Internet

One “feature” that comes with the app and cannot be turned off is a warning screen that appears as soon as the Digital Talmud is loaded. “Note,” the screen reads. “This app does not require the Internet for daily use. Following the ruling of leading rabbinic authorities, web devices should be used only with filters.”

The Times of Israel has a long feature story on the Artscroll Talmud iPad app. Here's a brief excerpt dealing with using the treife Internet:

…One “feature” that comes with the app and cannot be turned off is a warning screen that appears as soon as the Digital Talmud is loaded. “Note,” the screen reads. “This app does not require the Internet for daily use. Following the ruling of leading rabbinic authorities, web devices should be used only with filters.”

It’s a dictum Artscroll has tried very hard to fulfill, said Pasternak. “The only connection to the Internet is to download files; other than that there is no need for an online connection.”

As such, he said, the app fulfills the letter and spirit of the calls to ban the Internet at the recent “asifa,” the major gathering at Citi Field in Queens, in which some 60,000 people heard speeches condemning Internet use. “The rabbis there made it very clear that the Internet could be used only with strong filters, and we don’t require Internet use at all [after the initial download],” Pasternak said.

As a matter of fact, “we have had in place at the Artscroll offices in Brooklyn for years a very strong filter that ensures that the Internet can be used only for work purposes,” he added.

In fact, the iPad wasn’t Artscroll’s first choice of device for its digitized library plans. “We seriously examined the possibility of developing our own device, hardware and software, that would be dedicated for use with our library,” Pasternak said. Those plans halted when the company found out how much developing such a platform would cost — millions, “for a device that would reach a limited audience and would be outmoded within six months. We had to wait for a device like the iPad to go ahead with this project.”

Just who is the Digital Talmud for? Clearly, for iPad owners, although, said Pasternak, “we don’t advocate anyone buying an iPad” in order to get access to Artscroll apps. “The app does not work on Shabbat, so anyone who wants to study on Shabbat needs to use a physical volume, and we assume most of the users of the app have a set of Schottenstein Talmud books.”…

[Hat Tip: Rebitzman.]

Comments

[Dave]

Way too expensive! Get iTalmud for Pad instead. $29.95 for then entire shas including audio shiurim, daf view and English translation.

http://www.crowdedroad.com/iTalmud%20iPad%20Edition/

[think for a change]

So we can't have internet but Artscroll can create a trailer for their app that reeks of movie influence?!
This video used to be posted on youtube and is still linked to on the Artscroll website(http://www.artscroll.com/artscrollapp.html), before they took it down.

[Reb Mendel]

i know a bachur who was top boy in his yeshiva until he tata gave him an iphone as an award and now he lives like a bum.

[Dave]

Make that:

Way too expensive! Get iTalmud for Pad instead. $29.95 for the entire shas including audio shiurim, daf view and English translation.

http://www.crowdedroad.com/iTalmud%20iPad%20Edition/

[think for a change]

Somehow my link to the video wasn't posted in my first comment here it is
http://vimeo.com/37879751

[FMFan]

1. As an app it sucks.
2. It works on Shabbos.

[rebitzman]

@Shmarya

Thanks for the hat tip, but all I did was supply the image - YOU have apparently done some real digging. I still hope that the steinsaltz koren talmud will develop their promised app (it was promised in July) so I can put this one to bed.

@Dave

I have both apps, and the Artscroll Schottenstein is far superior to iTalmud in terms of language and commentary. The popup is simply annoying. I suppose if all you want is the Hebrew screenshot of the Daf, they are equal, but if you use the English at all there is really no comparrison. iTalmud is Talmud Lite.

@FMFan

1. Sucks in what way? It is extrodinarily complete - a mirror of the paper version.

2. I wondered how they would be able to disable the app one day of the week - especially when they openly state that it does not require an Internet connection to work. That coding is certainly possible, but I doubt very very seriously if Apple would allow it.

[zipora]

What Art Scroll doesn't tell you is what a large book dealer told me years ago that most of his art scroll shas and other books he sells to evangelical and other gentile students.! rc"l

[Dave]

@Dave

I have both apps, and the Artscroll Schottenstein is far superior to iTalmud in terms of language and commentary. The popup is simply annoying. I suppose if all you want is the Hebrew screenshot of the Daf, they are equal, but if you use the English at all there is really no comparrison. iTalmud is Talmud Lite.

I do not doubt for one second that Artscroll is better but at $1/page, $17/volume vs $30 for all of shas it makes a compelling purchase!

[Dave]

By the way, they also have a version for the iPhone for $25.

http://www.crowdedroad.com/iTalmud/

[Ken]

Despite what it says in the last paragraph, the program does not seem to be technologically locked against use on Shabbos, according to a friend who tried it.

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

How could they lock the device on Shabbos. It would have to know whether it was in Australia or NYC. If the device, like its propagandists, does not know where it is because it is not connnected, how can it know the time and day of the week.

And let's not even talk about the international dateline.

[Steve]

It's safe to assume that those of you complaining the loudest probably have very little interest in learning the daf.

I have no use for Internet bans yet I love the app and it's only going to get better. It's expensive, however if you learn the daf the ease of use is worth every penny.

[jomadar]

Reb Mendel-Is that boy you?

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

I know a Karaite website that says it's unavailable for 48 hours each week, so that it's not available anytime it's Shabbat anywhere in the world.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

How could they lock the device on Shabbos. It would have to know whether it was in Australia or NYC. If the device, like its propagandists, does not know where it is because it is not connnected, how can it know the time and day of the week.

And let's not even talk about the international dateline.

Posted by: Yerachmiel Lopin | August 08, 2012 at 10:54 AM

Yerachmiel,
My laptop knows the day and time, even when not connected to the internet. So technically the app would always know if it was Saturday, from the ipad's internal calendar.

Notice that the app does not say that it won't work on holidays, only on saturdays.

As for Australia, you're right. The ipad would automatically reconfigure its calendar for each time zone everytime it is connected to the internet. But once its reconfigured, the app would automatically stop working on saturday.

I'm not that tech-savvy but this does make sense.

[rebitzman]

@Yerachmiel Lopin

iPad is GPS enabled - it knows where and when it is at all times (unless the user turns off the GPS). The technology itself would not be difficult, but the "feature" would (according to an Apple app developer I asked - I have not seen anything "official") fall outside Apple standards for an app sold through their store.

@Dave

It's still a LOT cheaper than is buying hard copy - and a lot easier to store. I now have three complete sets of Talmud on the shelf now (including Schottenstien) and it appears my wife is working on getting #4 (Koren Steinsaltz). At $17 a book it IS a lot mmore expensive than iTalmud, but........I suppose the cost is relative to use. We (my family) hammer these things, so the cost doesn't seem that bad. To someone who wants a reference tool - iTalmud may well be just the thing to own.

[rebitzman]

@Office of the Chief Rabbi

That site is maintained by Hakham Avraham Ben-Rahamiël Qanaï - one of the best educated men I have ever met. He is deadly serious about this stuff. He won't even open (much less read) anything written to him on Shabbat - e-mail, letters, bills.......

[Dave]

I guess if you buy it for the current daf yomi cycle the the $17 per volume is not too bad since the cost of all of shas will be spread out over 7 years.

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

@rebitzman He's a friend of longstanding, over 35 yrs I guess.

[S.]

"As a matter of fact, “we have had in place at the Artscroll offices in Brooklyn for years a very strong filter that ensures that the Internet can be used only for work purposes,” he added."

I am only one witness, but since I blog about Artscroll, I can testify that one many occasions I got hits from inside the offices of Mesorah Publications. Maybe you can kvetch that for them reading my blog posts that mentioned Artscroll is work related.

[Garnel Ironheart]

> We seriously examined the possibility of developing our own device, hardware and software,

Oh! Oh! Is there a version where the screen is smudged, like those eyeglasses Shmarya keeps advertising?

[Jerry Baum]

This is all about $$$$ not Torah, like usual. They got a heter to use and promote the use of the Internet (only for initial downloads, every day that a download is required - like G-d who renews the world every day). These are all Rosh Yeshiva wannabees that don't want to get a real job so they hide behind the guise of Klei Kodesh, even if they have to admit that their keilim are taameh(no pun intended). It's a big joke. But keep learning. Today's daf (Berachos 6) says it all. And they'll just have to re-learn what they should have learned from history - http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeyttl9/

[Jerry Baum]

@ Garnel Ironheart

But they're own device would have been too expensive. Therefore, the heter for using the Internet due to loss of large amounts of money. The caterers use it all the time.

[Abracadabra]

ANNOUNCING The First Unofficial Failed Messiah Get Together
THIS SUNDAY, July 12th

A bunch of us commenters on Failed Messiah are getting together this Sunday, July 12th, for an evening of live, face-to-face conversation, discussions and just some good ol' shmoozing. Come and chat with some of the regulars and meet like minded people.

If you are interested in attending, send an email ASAP to either APC: ahpeechorus@gmail.com or to Abracadabra: zehtov2@yahoo.com

You MUST include in the email your Failed Messiah screenname and email address you use for posting comments. Once we verify that they match up, we will send you the time and place of our gathering which will be in the greater NY/NJ Metropolitan Area.

Trolls Be Warned: We will have a bouncer at the door who means business, as well as the 3rd Billy Goat Gruff, and trolls will not be tolerated.

The Small Print: This event is not endorsed or sponsored by Failed Messiah, and Shmarya will not be attending.

[rebitzman]

@ Abracadabra

You kinda missed July 12th - by almost a month

[rebitzman]

@Office of the Chief Rabbi

He and I disagree on...well, pretty much everything. BUT he disagrees from an educated perspective - and while he can be gruff, he is never mean spirited.

Hard not to respect him - tell him I said Hi.

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Ummm...... did you mean August 12th?

I will come if Jeff comes too. Let me know if Jeff is coming.

Do you think this get together will lead to mixed dancing?

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

@rebitzman I'm hoping he'll get here for Sukkot. He came last year. Wouldn't touch our food..but the wine met his approval! Does he know you as "rebitzman?"

[R. Wisler]

The article states:

As such, he said, the app fulfills the letter and spirit of the calls to ban the Internet at the recent “asifa,” the major gathering at Citi Field in Queens, in which some 60,000 people heard speeches condemning Internet use. “

I ask in reply:

Why didn't 60,000 people show up for an asifa to protest the raping and murdering of children in the hareidi community?

[rebitzman]

@Office of the Chief Rabbi

Yep - knows my real name as well

[Abracadabra]

CORRECTION – AUGUST 12th – The First Unofficial Failed Messiah Get Together will be this Sunday AUGUST 12th (and NOT July 12th).

[Fleishike Kishke]

My old cassettes came with the request, "Please do not play on Shabbos and Yomtov." Now that the fundamentalists have the "power" there is no request, they've simply disabled the device so it *cannot* play on Shabbos (and Yomtov). You have nothing to fear from the religious gaining power.

[Parve Kishke]

He meant that the app wont "work" for people who are Shomer Shabbos, so they will still need a hard copy. The app itself does work on Shabbos.

[Avi]

All you who think that a disconnected iPad can't tell what day of the week it is have apparently never owned a digital watch, or a fancy analog that keeps track of the day/date.

Do you think iPad owners fail to set the date and time (whether automatically or manually) just to fool the Artscroll app?