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July 27, 2012

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jancsibacsi

LofasaShegedre-its not shegedre its shegedbe hahaha,youre hungarian needs improving.

jancsibacsi

LofasaShegedre-hahaha its not shegedre its shegedbe youre hungarian need improing.

WoolSilkCotton

Ah, the NY Post would love the headline "Hasidic Penis Sucking Ritual".

LofasaShegedre

shmarya, I was just thinking. You are so similar to this Rabbi Eliyasev. You both live in your mothers house with all your children. Of course his children are all grown up and out of the house, and all your children are still at home, all over your walls. Both of you are great deciders of Jewish law.
But here the difference ends.
Where Rabbi Eliyashiv's decisions are misogynistic, sadistic, masochistic, cold and sexist, your rulings are all warm, caring and fully if good fuzzy feelings.
I'm sure in the not too distant future there will be a long well trodden path to your humble doors.
I can just imagine you facing Rabbi Eliyashiv in Olem Haemes (if there is one) and you telling him of all the terrible rulings that he made.
May our society merit this meeting very very soon.
How stupid to compare MBP to cigarettes. Cigarets are taxed and a good income to the state. If they could figure out how to tax MBP that would solve the problem.

WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar

++Bassy the Haredi Slayer | July 28, 2012 at 05:11 PM++

++Satmar babies need compassion and care++

I know that the frumma (especially Chabad) feel that I am raising my children in a wrong, dangerous, and ungodly way.

The frumma would love to have my children taken from me so that they could brainwash them with 'Torah True' Judaism.

As you know, I feel that MbP is disgusting and medically dangerous.
Nevertheless, I have no interest in prohibiting Satmar parents from doing something they are convinced is God's Word, nor have I interest in taking Satmar children away from their parents 'for their own good'.
We know that there is no reasoning with the Satmar regarding any changes in the practice of MbP.
We also know that all NY politicians are beholden to Satmar, and so no law with any real muscle will ever be passed against MbP.

I also feel that change, in order to be real and lasting, has to come from within, and that can only come sometime in the distant future, if ever.

And so, I have no problem and no interest in changing what the Satmar do with their babies, as long as it does not harm the rest of society.
If they were spreading contagious diseases to the general public, such as by failing to vaccinate their kids, that would be another story.

Office of the Chief Rabbi

is the headline in big type of "metzitzah b'peh" like the bill clinton headlines about oral sex, where parents have to do some uncomfortable explaining to their children?

Bassy the Haredi Slayer

Satmar, wherever in the world they may be, ought to learn to obey the law of the land, learn to work and provide for themselves, educate their children and be honest, loyal and participating citizens

When hell freezes over...

Bassy the Haredi Slayer

...then I have no problem with the frumma sucking their children's penises.

Very disturbing attitude, even the Satmar babies need compassion and care.

Yochanan Lavie

They should rename themselves Suckmore.

Apostate

How is this lunacy any different from the Taliban's? I really think religion causes brain damage.

Chicago Sam

Satmar is a prime example of what inbreeding does to a Hassidic group that is still culturally stuck in the Dark Ages.

Chicago Sam

What can one say? Satmar really sucks.

Rebitzman

@WoolSilkCotton

If we were trying to convince the frumma, you MIGHT be right, but we don't want or need to convince them. Only the authorities who ultimately will allow, disallow or regulate BMP - and they are not swayed by "cock sucking" arguments.

westernjew

Oral genital suction on an infant can probably cause petecial internal bleeding too. What a wonder for our newly ordained rabbis and mohels to etch into our children's experiences.

WoolSilkCotton

Rebitzman, there is no logic or persuasion or reasoning with the frumma about this topic.
Ridicule and dick jokes are the only tactics to use when discussing this.

The frumma are not interested in anyone else's opinions about halacha, nor do they give a shit about hygiene.

dh

Wow, you drink tea your whole life and no one accuses you of being a tea drinker. But suck one cock and all of a sudden you're a cocksucker.

We are a society that knows the importance of prenatal care. Aren't we concerned about the brain in utero? But once the poor child is born it is the subject and target of systematic risk and abuse. From day eight someone with a bigger and more important body and all it's parts is enjoying the smallest and weakest.

Raghuveer Shettigar

What kind of respectable news source would write penis so many times in an article?

Please stop being such a prig.

How would you like the penis to be described? As you no doubt already know, there are numerous synonyms, not all of them suitable for publication.

jancsibacsi

Rebitzman -You dont know what you are talking about ,it has been established that in a study that there is extreeme pain to the baby it is a fact you can even see it when the baby cries on the face of the baby it clearly shows that its having alot of pain the face
so dont give me that baloney about nerve endings,the intelligent way to have a brit is to minimize or tottaly allievite the painit can be done with today technology,i never vulgarize the precedure you never see me writing c s have a good shabbat.

Korbendallas72

And those of us who see it as a barbaric violation of hallachah are equally free to choose safer means to perform Brit Milah.

Whatever the resolution, there can be no rational discussion with one side screaming "cock sucker".

Posted by: Rebitzman | July 27, 2012 at 10:46 AM

I disagree, this can't be condoned. Cultural relativism is a bad way to look at an archaic practice that modern medicine has proven harmful. Then there's that whole passing the child over Molech thing...

Dan O.

If this were an issue about religious freedom and circumcision, the political thing to do would be for the Satmar to make this quiet down. At least making it appear to give in on MBP protects them in the long run.

But it's not about religious freedom. It's about the leadership's unmitigated religious authority (including political authority) over their community.

The victims are Satmars. The fact that this involves babies only makes this more egregious. But even if the victims were adults, it would not be acceptable. A good comparison would be hazing deaths. Nobody finds hazing deaths acceptable. That's how far out these cult leaders are.

Rebitzman

@Janscibacsi

At 8 days - it's used to pee. Not enough nerve endings developed for anything else. It is why our culture is fortunate to have this done early. It certainly hurts, but only for a few seconds then the baby is calm.

So unless the mohel is gaining some sexual satisfaction from the act (and I have seen nothing to make me so conclude), then I stand by what I said: the rational arguments for and against BMP are based on hallachic and hygienic grounds.

In both cases, BMP is not supportable. I personally would support a ban, but would probably be more comfortable (from a 1st Ammendment perspective) that it simply be regulated. Requiring the mohelim to be tested, and the parents to sign informed consent forms in no way infringes on anyone's rights.

And those of us who see it as a barbaric violation of hallachah are equally free to choose safer means to perform Brit Milah.

Whatever the resolution, there can be no rational discussion with one side screaming "cock sucker".

Yochanan Lavie

No wonder the chareidim like to suck on phalluses. They use logical fallacies, which also suck.

hilton

to jeff. if what you say is correct to any degree you must report satmar officials who practise this sucking of a male bab y's wee wee to the fbi. my reading of sorna rules to paedophiles would call this an indictable act of extreme child violation. perhaps by now all the satmar jews around new york are,males of course, have infected brains and suffer from a growing brain illness epidemic. what a sad subject to be concentrating on when in reality being born is usually a blessing amongst non satmar and other, chabad? groups, to all other secular jewish people. they are a really sick and depraved bunch, your satmar jews. somehow they have been cursed.they should be set apart and sent out to perish as an atonement as is done and explained during the yom kippur service.

Jeff

The scary part of MBP is the undetected brain damage that it causes.

I'm beginning to think that may explain a great deal.

jancsibacsi

Rebitzman-You cant just ignore the sexual side since it is the sexual organ that is being subjected to trauma and abuse.

Rebitzman

@WoolSilkCotton

For what it is worth, I think the more persuasive arguments against BMP are halalchic and hygienic. Attempting to spin a sexual side to this is a loser in the long and short run, and serves only to provide the "other side" with the not altogether illegitimate argument that opponents of BMP are arguing out of emotion, and not from a foundation of fact.

jancsibacsi

Korbendallas72-You know me well i wrote here that i am from hungary ,as a child i lived there until the age of12 when i saw this mbp the first time i was about9 years old i could not bring myself that this was real it was just too disgusting and i am sure it was done to me since i grew up in that part of the world near satmer i wrote here that i was also molested by our husheve shoihet moiel so there you have it you can see whom we are dealing with stubborn fools who would not listen to reason.

Korbendallas72

Jansci - You can't get lower than that! Yet they seem to think they're holier than thou anyhow. Hamas in black hats.

jancsibacsi

The satmerers are lowlife trashes masquerading
as the holy of holies of the jewish people,you cant be lower then that.

WoolSilkCotton

We see from the frumma troll outpouring here that the frumma still want to suck their babies' penises.

And that is why I say, let them.

As long as the public is warned, so that any non-frum Jewish family wanting to hire a frum mohel is aware of the repugnant act about to be done to their infant, and the rest of the public is warned that frumma babies may be carrying herpes or AIDS because of the indiscriminate dick-sucking that the frumma do, then I have no problem with the frumma sucking their children's penises.

Some of my virtual friends here were put off by my saying this on another thread, but I really see no other approach to this issue.

Alter Kocker

Perform MBP and risk losing the child to the state.

Barry

Bob M, you really need to learn the purpose of the doctrine of separation of state and religion.

This doctrine's arose because of the need to prevent people killing for religious reasons, not (as Satmar seem to assume) to facilitate it.

Shmarya

******Sockpuppet Alert******

Zindel, Bob M, The Crusader, and Third Crusade all all the same person.

That is called sockpuppeting. It is an attempt to make it appear that more people support a particular view than actually do support it.

It is deceitful and it is not permitted.

It also got him banned.

Korbendallas72

True or false This country is build on seperation of state and religion and the mayor should respect that godly or not,

btw, if a kid scratches her hands and it bleeds and mom or yourself licks it off! it's no ones business and it's certainly not outlawed .

Posted by: Bob M | July 27, 2012 at 08:29 AM

We should also be more tolerant of Aztecs and permit the sacrifice of virgins because that's just how they roll, true or false? Haredi attempts at logic fill me with rage.

To claim the the practice is archaic, outdated, barbaric, etc. I can understand, but to claim that "MBP has sickened, maimed and even killed babies through transmission of the herpes virus." is a lie, and you know it. Some babies got sick, and the doctors cited MPB as one of the causes that could've made the babies sick, so of course the health dep. (and Shmarya) jumped on this.
If MPB truly was so deadly, there would've been at least hundreds of deaths by now, and there isn't.
You're a liar.
Posted by: PrettyBoyFloyd | July 27, 2012 at 07:50 AM

It's perfectly moral to play Russian roulette with the life of an infant. The way these Haredi morons pump out babies, they're practically disposable amirite?

Bob M

westernjew: " This procedure is UNG-DLY AND SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED. "

True or false This country is build on seperation of state and religion and the mayor should respect that godly or not,

btw, if a kid scratches her hands and it bleeds and mom or yourself licks it off! it's no ones business and it's certainly not outlawed .

Devorah

"In the end he wouldn’t even take up an audience of the most revered rabbinic rabbis to listen to their pleads!"

He's too smart and too busy to listen to your "most revered rabbinic rabbis." Thank goodness, he doesn't fall for their crap.

westernjew

No matter what you say and no matter what your "traditions" are. This procedure is UNG-DLY AND SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED.

PrettyBoyFloyd

To claim the the practice is archaic, outdated, barbaric, etc. I can understand, but to claim that "MBP has sickened, maimed and even killed babies through transmission of the herpes virus." is a lie, and you know it. Some babies got sick, and the doctors cited MPB as one of the causes that could've made the babies sick, so of course the health dep. (and Shmarya) jumped on this.
If MPB truly was so deadly, there would've been at least hundreds of deaths by now, and there isn't.
You're a liar.

Korbendallas72

Bob M, te Satmar and scumbag Haredim have built their mindless cults upon the idea that if they accuse any critics of anti-semitism, they can get away with anything. The entire world now knows what you filthy black hatted scumbags are all about.

Yerachmiel Lopin

Point of Fact: The Yid is the Zaali Williamsburg Satmar newspaper. At this point there is no generic Satmar newspaper. The Blatt is the Ahroni KJ rag.

In all things Satmar there is no such thing as generic Satmar. The lead should have read, "The Zalman Leib aligned Satmar newspaper, the Yid..."

Having said that I have no doubt that the Ahronis have or will take the same position. In fact they may put something in the Blatt to show that they are frummer than the Zaalis. G-d protect us, they may insist on sucking twice unlike the heathen Zaalis.

Bob M

neverFrum: "They ignore every other rule in the countries that they live in"

Very original anti-semitic argument, bravo!

ודתיהם שונות מכל עם, ואת דתי המלך אינם עושים -אסתר ג

neverFrum

They ignore every other rule in the countries that they live in, why is this any different?

Bob M

Shmarya: "Klal Yisroel [the Jewish community] is determined, if necessary, to fight the decree on the legal front and to ignore the regulations"

This country and state is not governed by "decrees" there was no legislative discussions or votes or judicial scholars yet discussing this issue the mayor can go fly a kite if he wishes! With his caprices and decrees

zindel

Flatbusher: "But they should not have trumpeted it, shoving it into the governments face."

You're wrong they begged and pleaded quietly, this mayor Haman for years now to get his hands-off this fabricated issue, which btw was revenge by him and the gay community for the cheridim going against gay marriage! In the end he wouldn’t even take up an audience of the most revered rabbinic rabbis to listen to their pleads! It's time to expose him and fight this Haman of a mayor! It's still a free country! The constitution still forbids the mingling of state with religion! Will expose and throw out these bums! Who some say he is not better than spitzer!

zindel

The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) writes:
+ Over a million patients are injured in U.S. hospitals each year
+ 280,000 die annually as a result of these injuries
+ Dwarfs the annual automobile accident mortality rate of 45,000
+ They are filled with infection-causing bacteria that cannot be found anywhere else
+ Many of the microbes passed on thru the air conditioning and heating systems and hospital staff
+ Hospitals are among the most contaminated places in the world
+ Doctors can be the worst transmitters of disease in hospitals
+ 90,000 people a year die from hospital-acquired infections
+ 300,000 Americans die each year in hospitals as a result of medical negligence
+ Most dangerous place in a hospital is the maternity ward
+ A spot check of 105 U.S. hospitals showed that 69 of them had violated basic laws and rules.
+ 3,000 hospital patients in the U.S. undergo wrong-side surgery each year

The above statistics are from 1995 they say it got much worse since, the statistics does not include 100,000’s clinics, doctors offices, etc. So the Health Department is concerned of one or two “maybe” deads, or of herpes cases in MbP מציצה בּפּה (from 100,000’s) and they want the bris should take place in a “Hospital” instead!
New York’s Board of Health Get busy with the above statiscis, keep your hands off religious practices

כי עליך הרגנו כל היום זו מילה . גיטין נ״ז

The Crusader

If the Board of health is looking for preventing new health hazards, I'll give them a clue where to look for חז"ל אמרו: חכמי הרופאים אומרים אחד מאלף מת בשאר חלאים ואלף מרוב תשמיש maybe by curtailing provocative ad's and internet lurid sites would be a good start?!

The Crusader

How about banning (underage) horse riding that injures more people than motorcycles! or banning altogether smoking that kills thousands yearly! Why use MbP for political fodder when it kills no one!

Observer

The government is supposed to legislative public health, and children, as a weak, vulnerable class, are owed the highest duty of care. That is why second-hand smoke, affecting children, can and should be legislated.

The scary part of MBP is the undetected brain damage that it causes. MBP should be unconditionally illegal.

Third Crusade

Pope Bloomberg himself allegedly had an MbP at his bris and got brained damaged himself, taking on a loosing battle of MbP that will only put him in the roster of the paroh-haman-yevenim-spaniards-germans.. When at the same time he supports gay marriages the source of the terrible AIDS epidemic witch killed already 1000's what a hypocrite!

Barry

Flatbusher has a point.

No one objected when Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali knocked the living daylights out of each other over 15 rounds at the Madison Square Gardens in 1971, but when last week, I landed a right hook on Angela Lansbury, these hypocrites gave me no end of problems.

WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar

++Flatbusher | July 26, 2012 at 09:43 PM++

So your logic is:
If smoking cigarettes is legal, why can't smoking little boys' penises be legal?

When the next batch of frumma babies with herpes or AIDS occurs, and it will be traced to their mohel, can the NYC government be held responsible, since they knew about this danger but acted in a pusillanimous way because the politicians are afraid of the frumma?
You can bet the frumma will sue the City of NY.

Todros Modene Yankel

Noh prablem: If a baby gets sick from metzitzebepe, we'll just farkoyf the herpes to a goy.

Nigritude Ultramarine

What kind of respectable news source would write penis so many times in an article?

It's just anatomy.

fyg

danny, you don't sound too Jewish to me. I in your shoes wouldn't be so offended when they talk in the name of "Klal Yisroel".

jancsibacsi

Flatbusher-You are missing the point a grownup smoking is a grownup making his own decision,not the same when the baby has no say in what is done with his body dont confuse the two.

Flatbusher

The government is totally wrong on this. While we expect our govt. defend us, protect our water & food supply, etc. we must still be allowed to make decisions which maybe harmful to us.

Example smoking: Yes they have these 'warnings' on the package but we all know that is a joke. How many people die every year from smoking? HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Yet every corner grocer sells cigarettes. Why? All agree its more dangerous than MBP.

Some feel this is a religious obligation; a religious tradition over many hundreds of years. There may be a risk, but so is a bris itself. Chazal say 'maysu echov machmas milah'. In todays world these parents would be arrested. Would any sane Jew regardless of denomination agree with the GERMANS disallowing circumcisions?

So while there is plenty to bash charedim about, they are right about this, in a libertarian way. We don't want or need a nanny government.

But they should not have trumpeted it, shoving it into the governments face. In effect saying in a community news headlne : screw you, I own Williamsburg and hence the universe. That is idiotic.

David

What kind of respectable news source would write penis so many times in an article?

Posted by: think for a change | July 26, 2012 at 09:27 PM

What kind of respectable Jew would suck on a baby's penis based upon a false middle ages understanding of medical science which is now proven to be invalid and actually harmful to the baby and which is not halacha in any case? Why do you ignore halacha which prohibits doing harm?

David

Sooner or later the great tolerance extended to these sorcerers by Jews and Gentiles will be withdrawn. Satmar, wherever in the world they may be, ought to learn to obey the law of the land, learn to work and provide for themselves, educate their children and be honest, loyal and participating citizens.

think for a change

Failed Messiah the tabloid-like blog about the orthodox jewish community.

What kind of respectable news source would write penis so many times in an article?

Korbendallas72

Satmar are replacement theologists. They run around screaming "True Toyreh! True Toyreh!" while performing ancient Sumerian bloodsucking rites in the name of God.

danny

The Satmars need to STFU about "Klal Yisroel", as if their demented 17th century ways represents me.

MBP should be 100% illegal. No consent forms or other opt-out bullshit. Put non-compliant Mohels in prison.

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