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July 25, 2012

Bloomberg: Unsafe Practices Like Metzitzah B’Peh Will Not Be Permitted

Bris Milah Circumcision Metzitzah B'peh closeupMayor Michael Bloomberg responded to haredi rabbis’ threats to sue the city if the city passes a requirement for parents to sign an informed consent form acknowledging the dangers of metzitzah b’peh (MBP), the oral-to-penis sucking done primarily by haredi mohels immediately after the circumcision cut is made.

Bris Milah Circumcision Metzitzah B'peh closeup
Metzitzah being done in Israel

Bloomberg: Unsafe Practices Like Metzitzah B’Peh Will Not Be Permitted
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Mayor Michael Bloomberg reportedly responded strongly to haredi rabbis’ threats to sue the city if the city passes a requirement for parents to sign an informed consent form acknowledging the dangers of metzitzah b’peh (MBP), the oral-to-penis sucking done primarily by haredi mohels immediately after the circumcision cut is made.

“We have an obligation to keep people alive and safe and the courts have held that up repeatedly…There are certain practices that doctors say are not safe and we will not permit those practices to the extent that we can stop them. You don’t have a right to put any child’s life in danger, and this clearly does,” Bloomberg reportedly said.

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Kudos to NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

Cue accusations of anti-semitism against Bloomberg...3, 2, 1...

They will call him a nazi and jew hater, even though he is a jew himself. This will be interesting.

Hooray for Mayor Mike for standing up to the utter stupidity of the haredim in NYC. The highest calling in Judaism is to save lives whenever and wherever possible. Since it's now been shown that in certain situations, mbp can endanger the life of a newborn, there is no question that the procedure should be forbidden for all britot. But the haredi rabbis are too pigheaded to understand this and so a ban from the city health department is certainly in order. A signed statement of informed consent by the parents is a poor substitute for such a ban, but at least it's a step in the right direction. If the frummies decide to take this issue to court, there is no doubt that they will lose.

What is MBP again?

Good for Bloomberg. I guess only a billionaire in his last term has the batzot (batzim?) to tell them off.

Cue accusations of anti-semitism against Bloomberg...3, 2, 1...

Posted by: Dovit | July 25, 2012 at 10:41 AM

To late read VIN

what it really sad is that I am 100% confident that chazal themselves would ban it today

Although I'm not a fan of Bloomie, he's right about this one. Tell him mohelim force the babies to drink 20 oz sodas and he'll really get incensed.

Rabbi A. Romi Cohn, defended the practice, saying rabbinical law guidelines are “much stricter than the medical profession,”

yes because we all know swishing wine in ones mouths is more than what a doctor would do. who is he kidding. Is he for real, is this the best the MP defenders got?
That statement might have closed the deal since many in the meeting most likely just thought these guys are simple delusional

Don't get so excited. The same community that has no trouble hushing up incest and pedophilia will have no trouble getting parents to sign the consent form. This changes very little.

Like I wrote on another post, if the NYC Dept. of Health ends up forcing all Mohels to get a signed consent form from the parents before doing MBP, the Charedei Mohels will be dancing in the streets. The form will release them from all liability if something goes wrong.

The consent form will become a badge of honor for Charedei parents to sign to show how frum they are and the Mesires Nefesh they went through to keep the Mesorah alive. There will be too much peer pressure to do anything but this.

I don’t have numbers to back this up, but these days most MO Mohels no longer do MBP. They use a pipette and therefore the Dept. of Health guidelines will not change anything in this community.

So in the end, the Charedim will win, the NYC Dept. of Health will have accomplished nothing but to protect the Mohels. Their actions will ensure that this practice never goes away and just the opposite, guarantee its survival.

I don't know about you but I never read legal mumbo jumbo that I am typically presented with.

When I install a piece of software and in the installation process I am presented with a screen full of legalese with "I Accept" and and "I Decline" buttons do you think I for one second hesitate clicking the "I Accept" button without even glancing what I am accepting to? Same thing here, the mohel will present the paper to the parents and ask them to sign as a necessary formality to the bris process. Leave it up to the city to fill the page up with legalese, official looking header and tiny print, most people will simply sign on the dotted line.

Bloomberg cannot be accused of being a Jew hater. Quite frankly the race card is worn out and boring. Bloomberg is a self anointed dictator whose soul was rotted by money: But on this, his is 100% right. This practice is, ASSAULT/BATTERY and pedopheila that stays with the childs psyche forever. What a horrible way to start the journey of life.
Some of these "rituals" belong in an by gone uncivilized era. Humanity needs to evolve beyond this "ritual."

Now if Bloomberg would just kick able bodied men off of welfare and stop the "ritual" lifestyle of "robbing" the welfare system through fraud/chicanery NYS/NYC could lower the tax burden of the "PRODUCERS."

Bloomberg: Unsafe Practices Like Metzitzah B’Peh Will Not Be Permitted

Maybe I am missing something but doesn't it say that it is permitted as long as you sign a consent document?

Question to all you well meaning people:
Lets say Metzitzah B’Peh is out, banned,kapout,how many of you would say that a mohel should not preform a bris all together and only a trained doctor should?

A bris should only be performed by a competent moiel someone who feels for the baby and not just treat it like an inanimate object the baby should be anesthesized should not feel the pain it should be done under humane conditions it is the least we can ask for.

,how many of you would say that a mohel should not preform a bris all together and only a trained doctor should?

Posted by: Deremes | July 25, 2012 at 11:51 AM

Would this be covered by your typical health insurance policy? Also where would the bris be performed i.e. do doctors do house calls?

Lets say Metzitzah B’Peh is out, banned,kapout,how many of you would say that a mohel should not preform a bris all together and only a trained doctor should?

Posted by: Deremes | July 25, 2012 at 11:51 AM


most likely very few, since it can be done by a doctor yet many people who know MP is dangerous still use a mohel.

maybe you do not know most frum non chassidseh moheleim use a tube

do not think NP is dangerous next time your kid gets cut why not lick the wound

Bloomberg cannot be accused of being a Jew hater.

Sure he can! Just wait!

Question to all you well meaning people:
Lets say Metzitzah B’Peh is out, banned,kapout,how many of you would say that a mohel should not preform a bris all together and only a trained doctor should?

Posted by: Deremes


i'll go one better. no brises should be allowed whatsoever until a boy is 18 unless the AMA or CDC determines thats is necessary and beneficial. in such a case, of course only a doctor may perform this surgery, just as with all other surgery.

ah-pee-chorus | July 25, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Thats my point all along with the Metzitzah B’Peh issue that supposedly you all mean well that babies should "stop being infected and dying". ah-pee-chorus says clearly what the real issue is.I admire your honesty.

Would this be covered by your typical health insurance policy? Also where would the bris be performed i.e. do doctors do house calls?

Most insurance plans cover the services of a mohel.

People have known that smoking has a direct relationship with certain forms of cancer. Why hasn't smoking been declared illegal? I'm sure that more people die from tobacco-induced diseases in a day, than from Mezizo B'Peh in a year.

Anyone that thinks Metzitzah B'Peh is wonderful, tell your doctor next time you need surgery you don't want antiseptics - tell him you want a rabbi to suck the wound clean with his dirty mouth.

no brises should be allowed whatsoever until a boy is 18 unless the AMA or CDC determines thats is necessary and beneficial. in such a case, of course only a doctor may perform this surgery, just as with all other surgery.

As long as the 1st Ammendment stands - this won't happen.

Please feel free to make (or defer) this decision for your own children - keep your hands (metaphore) off of mine, please.

Deremes, at least be honest yourself. Admit you think it's okay to put babies penises in your mouth, and admit that it's okay for babies to die for no good reason at all.

Does anybody know if babies and mohels ever got HIV from MBP?

Does anybody know how many baby girls in the frum community got infected with herpes in the last fifty years?

Deremes-We are talking only about males y you bring up females dont try to sidetrack the issue.

Leibel Schenkel-Youre pretending to be stupid we said this a thousand times here,this is about choice an adult makes the choice of smoking he had a choice, a baby has non whatsoever to have mbp or not, get that into youre thick skull once and for all.

Bloomberg remains a jerk

He could of done this in the last bout.

He personally ordered the Department of Health.
A relative was the person representing the Department of Health at the time. Met all the rabbis went to all the meetings and was all for banning MBP.

Except Bloomberg wanted the vote.

No praise here and now for the little Napoleon man.


People have known that smoking has a direct relationship with certain forms of cancer. Why hasn't smoking been declared illegal? I'm sure that more people die from tobacco-induced diseases in a day, than from Mezizo B'Peh in a year.

Posted by: Leibel Schenkel | July 25, 2012 at 12:38 PM

And guess what - if - for religious reasons people had babies smoking there would be an outcry. Nobody is claiming that an adult who has not yet had a bris should not be allowed MPB (OY!!!).
And past thAT - thats why cigarette boxes have WARNING LABELS ON THE BOX! The point of the consent is exactly like a WARNING label. Sorry that you cannot do the analysis necessary to figure this out yourself.

As long as the 1st Ammendment stands - this won't happen.

Please feel free to make (or defer) this decision for your own children - keep your hands (metaphore) off of mine, please.


Posted by: rebitzman


i guess you arent aware that our courts have already ruled that freedom of religion does NOT permit a parent or clergyman to actively do harm to a child and even to passively withhold medical treatment from a minor. that is why children suffering from illnesses whose parents are christian scientists that are refusing treatment on religious grounds , are taken away from their parents and given the needed medical intervention. it is also why members of religious cults may not have sex with minors no matter what the minors parents say, and regardless of any claimed religious requirement.
it is also why all circumcisions-and kal v'chomer metzitzah b'peh- should be prohibited.

People have known that smoking has a direct relationship with certain forms of cancer. Why hasn't smoking been declared illegal? I'm sure that more people die from tobacco-induced diseases in a day, than from Mezizo B'Peh in a year.

Posted by: Leibel Schenkel


it never fails. every time the issue comes up some charedi apologist thinks hes come up with a brilliant defense.
ADULTS ARE NOT CHILDREN!! adults may choose to smoke despite the dangers. children may not, and we certainly wouldnt permit a parent to force his child to smoke, just like we cant permit a parent to mutilate an 8 day olds penis.
all your learning hasnt led you to one iota of logic. what a shame.

ah-pee-chorus | July 25, 2012 at 12:18 PM

Thats my point all along with the Metzitzah B’Peh issue that supposedly you all mean well that babies should "stop being infected and dying". ah-pee-chorus says clearly what the real issue is.I admire your honesty.

Posted by: Deremes


you have employed a fallacy in logic. while i may be against all genital mutilation, there are plenty -in fact a large majority here- who have no problem with a bris. they are troubled with the ADDITIONAL issue of the bris being performed in the safest manner possible. and you cant dismiss the entire MBP issue by pointing to a minority who find the entire act barbaric and saying that that somehow absolves you of any responsibility to ensure a childs safety during a bris.
that is dishonest.

You can not reconcile Bris with Western medical ethics as the same principle prohibits Muslims mutilating their daughters' genitalia or atheists tattooing babies faces with 'God does not exist'.

Deremes, you seem to be of the view that non-frum Jews can influence public opinion against Bris Milah. You are wrong. It is non-Jews who oppose it.

Jews may have to accept that they may need to perform this ritual on a ship in international waters like Polish women had to before abortion reform.

You can not reconcile Bris with Western medical ethics as the same principle prohibits Muslims mutilating their daughters' genitalia or atheists tattooing babies faces with 'God does not exist'.

Deremes, you seem to be of the view that non-frum Jews can influence public opinion against Bris Milah. You are wrong. It is non-Jews who oppose it.

Jews may have to accept that they may need to perform this ritual on a ship in international waters like Polish women had to before abortion reform.

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | July 25, 2012 at 01:30 PM

Here is what i believe and of course i don't expect anyone on fm to agree:
It starts with Metzitzah B’peh claiming that babies are maimed and dying,some will even claim its pedophilia.If successful with making it illegal next step will be only a doctor should do it the hospital.Next,not to the eight days.
Point,to make it hard for orthodox Jews to practice as they did and want to continue and to make sure frum Jews should be looked upon by non-Jews as disgusting despicable people.
This is what they all want but it wont happen hopefully.

NO ONE values Jewish life as an observant Jew.NO ONE means the good for observant Jews as they themselves.

Deremes et al-all due respect:
In my city most of the mohelim are physicians EXCEPT for those mohels serving the ultra-orthodox. I sincerely believe that any person cutting into the flesh of another must be medically trained and certified. All due respect to the mohelim who have done this for years without incident, a trained physician would know better than to put a gaping wound into his mouth. Any dentist will tell you that the human mouth is a hotbed of germs.

Now, you can say that an ultra-orthodox mohel is trained, and I will ask: Show me his MD. Show me that he has taken extensive courses in sterile procedure. Show me that no part of his body comes into contact with the child.

Now, you can say that MBP is a part of the UO brit milah and has been for centuries. I must necessarily retort that MBP may have had it's place before we knew about the existence of bacteria and viruses, and before we knew that a physician should not place his ungloved hand into a patient's open wound.

This type of thing cannot and should not be allowed in any way shape or form. This is not about a ritual that has taken place for 5000 years, this is about saving lives.

God knew what he was doing. How dare some mere flawed human come along and revise the system God put in motion. If God wanted a bris, he would have implemented the situation as such. Oh, the arrogance. imho.

"some will even claim its pedophilia"

Okay... I'll go there. Yes, it is indeed pedophilia to suck on baby genitals. You cannot convince me it is not that. Warren Jeffries (of FLDS) can make the argument that his shtupping underage girls is a RELIGIOUS obligation and has nothing to do with pedophilia. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

"NO ONE values Jewish life as an observant Jew.NO ONE means the good for observant Jews as they themselves."

Now you are just veering deep into cult thinking and self-worship. Get the fuck over yourselves. Don't spout platitudes about valuing Jewish lives at the same time defending baby-dick-sucking.

God is not amused-Dont you know religious people love to play god it is their livelihood to dupe the masses who love to be duped.

Barry, why would non-Jews even care?
Jews thinking outside the frum box oppose this. Stand back and look at the act. It is abhorrent.
1) A stranger traumatizing the child
2) Stranger commiting pseudo-fellatio
3) Pseudo-cannibalism of drinking blood(child sacrifice by Israelites)
4) Serves NO valid purpose.

this is a pagan ritual, whose real meaning has been hidden from the eyes. imho


Its a shame these are not images of haredim then we would really have a picnic!

http://www.ezakwantu.com/Gallery%20Scarification%20-%20African%20Body%20Modification%20Clips.htm

,how many of you would say that a mohel should not preform a bris all together and only a trained doctor should?

Posted by: Deremes | July 25, 2012 at 11:51 AM

That question makes no sense at all. But at any rate, models have better outcomes with fewer complications than physicians who perform circumcision,

i guess you arent aware that our courts have already ruled that freedom of religion does NOT permit a parent or clergyman to actively do harm to a child and even to passively withhold medical treatment from a minor

Good luck getting this applied to brit milah.

Circumcision is a safe procedure by any and all standards. You mix in the 1st Ammendment and no one but an absolute idiot would hold it to the same standard as witholding Chemo from a kid with cancer.

Again - you are absolutely within your rights as a father, grandfather.......to choose NOT to do this to your child/grandson......

You have no right to tell me not to.

Now, you can say that an ultra-orthodox mohel is trained, and I will ask: Show me his MD. Show me that he has taken extensive courses in sterile procedure. Show me that no part of his body comes into contact with the child

Can't speak to certification of the ultra-Orthodox, but while the training for Reform and Conservative Judaism does not require the person to be an MD (I know of none who are not) it does cover the surtgical procedures and protocols that include (but are not limited to) doing the procedure quickly, safely (meaning in a sterile manner) and how to recognize anomolies and situations where brit milah should not be done (for the safety of the infant) as well as the necessary religious requirements.

About a week ago it was reported that: “Two children die every day from drowning and minority children are three times as likely as white children to drown. That’s why New York City is trying to teach kids to swim and is offering free lessons. The program is called Learn to Swim.”

This chilling statistic clearly shows us that swimming is an extremely (unnecessary) dangerous endeavor for children. 2 precious children die (needlessly) every single day! Is anyone suggesting to ban swimming for people under 18? 12? Is anyone suggesting that parent’s be required to sign a written consent before allowing a child into a public pool?

If you compare the percent of children who allegedly got sick from metziza b’peh this past year with the children who died in the pool, you will see that thousands of children clearly died in the pool, and ??? kids got sick from the traditional bris?

Yet, since a Bris is an ‘old fashioned, religious practice’ it’s fair game for attack, scorn, ridicule and government regulation…..

click for full article

Posted by: Leibel Schenkel | July 25, 2012 at 12:38 PM

I am sure that if a 8 year old child father gives a cigarette to the child to smoke that he will be prosecuted, inasmuch an adult has the freedom to smoke or to have a mohel perform fellatio on him.

Shosh, many activities (such as swimming, cycling or driving) carry risk. The question to consider is whether the risks of these activities outweigh their benefits and to to minimize that risk according to the knowledge we have.

The health benefits of swimming for example outweigh the risks. Furthermore those risks can be minimized by training and provision of life guards. Likewise the facts that it was perfectly reasonable and legal to build a car in 1930 which disintegrated at a 20 mph impact does not mean that we should allow such cars to be built today.

The consensus of medical opinion is that there is no benefit to circumcision but only harm.

Circumcision is a safe procedure by any and all standards

...
Posted by: rebitzman | July 25, 2012 at 02:51 PM

Interesting, in Africa the "bris" is performed when the boys are in their teens and the ceremony lasts three months!

http://www.ezakwantu.com/Gallery%20Lister%20Hunter%20Photo%20Set%20A%20-%20Abakwetha.htm


Does anybody know how many baby girls in the frum community got infected with herpes in the last fifty years?


The question is der shote is how many Satmar men are having sex with their own children.

(I am not talking about Satmar men having sex with children who are not their own)

Sosh, can we give up on the "but more people are injured by bull-testicle-grabbing and dwarf throwing sports events and they're not banned" idiocy?
Go put up a sign at your pool saying that it's ok to dive into the shallow end. Then do it. After that we can talk.

How true, this is America and if you want to grab a bull by the testicles then by golly no one should be allowed stop you! (Just don't tell PETA). I do object however to the throwing of dwarfs - I fail to see the sport in that!

Something one needs to accept is that the principles of Jewish Law and morality and Western civil law and post enlightenment morality often conflict.

Some try to pretend that they do not (for example by wrongly suggesting that the first amendment acknowledges the supremacy of religious law in personal matters).

Jews have chosen to live in Western democracies because of the freedom and benefits its secular principles bring. However they become conflicted when those same principles challenge their traditions.

The most important enlightenment principle is that of Immanuel Kant - "So act as to treat humanity, whether in thine own person or in that of any other,in every case as an end withal, never as a means only." - the autonomy of the individual person, no matter what age, should always have moral precedence, so that the freedom and dignity of the individual child (including the right to bodily integrity) should have greater priority than the authority of parents.

This Kantian idea which is the basis on Western morality and law contradicts the basis of Judaism. It is that principle that the court in Cologne recognized. To pretend it does not or that Jews should be exempt from that idea is a waste of effort and may be harmful to the vast majority of Jews who enjoy the protection of that principle.

Deremes, that slippery slope argument is stupid. Banning MBP simply would mean requiring a pipette. Based on your flawed logic, one could argue that banning drive without a seatbelt will inevitably lead to banning all cars.

Bary wrote: "Maybe I am missing something but doesn't it say that it is permitted as long as you sign a consent document?"

I agree with Bary. Signing a document is not the same as making the practice illegal. The Mayor is not suggesting that the parents be declared unfit to raise children and be sent to Sing Sing for ten years.

Every time I see a story on MBP, it reminds me of the lines in the movie "Exodus":

Kitty Fremont: I am trying to save a Jewish child. Can't you understand that? Don't you have any respect for human life?

Ari Ben Cannaan: Don't expect me to get hysterical over one Jewish child...and don't you get hysterical, either.

Fortunately, MBP does not harm many Jewish babies and kills even fewer, as disgusting as the process is.

If the Mayor is really concerned about the welfare of a lot of Jewish children, he should start a campaign to overhaul the secular education of Hasidic Jews in New York. These youngsters are being short changed and many of them leave school economically crippled for life. It is going to take a lot of co-operation of politicians at the local, state and Federal levels to give these children a decent chance in life.

Ah Pee Chorus: There is medical evidence to suggest that male circumcision may be helpful in reducing the spread of AIDS, especially from females to males. Some countries in Africa are now encouraging the procedure for that reason. Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_HIV

…“Two children die every day from drowning and minority children are three times as likely as white children to drown. That’s why New York City is trying to teach kids to swim and is offering free lessons. The program is called Learn to Swim.”

This chilling statistic clearly shows us that swimming is an extremely (unnecessary) dangerous endeavor for children. 2 precious children die (needlessly) every single day! Is anyone suggesting to ban swimming for people under 18? 12? Is anyone suggesting that parent’s be required to sign a written consent before allowing a child into a public pool?…

Posted by: shosh | July 25, 2012 at 02:52 PM

Others have already dealt with the logical fallacies in your argument.

I want to briefly deal with the sheer stupidity of it.

Those minority children die for a string of reasons, all preventable:

1. They swim in areas without lifeguards.

2. The public pools they use are often poorly maintained and may have fewer lifeguards than others.

3. They swim primarily to cool off because their apartments don't have air conditioning or their families cannot afford to run the units they have.

4. They live in crowded apartments that just by virtue of the overcrowding are hotter than others.

5. They don't get the swimming lessons that almost every middle class kid gets.

You, of course, ignore all the real reasons these kids are more likely to drown and instead attempt to prove that MBP should be legal because swimming – much more dangerous, can't you see? – is legal.

But that, too, is idiotic.

People who cannot swim are at a much higher risk for drowning than those who can swim. That isn't because non-swimmers try to swim and then drown. It is because people who don't know how to properly swim – and in swimming safety, a part of these basic swim classes – are more likely to panic when faced with an unexpected current or undertow, and be overwhelmed by them. They make poor choices that get them into these situations more often and they die more often in them as a result.

The bottom line is that a child who knows how to swim and who has had real water safety classes is far less likely to accidentally drown than kids who have not had that training. This is especially true when rivers and an ocean are only a very short subway ride away.

Even if they do not do it its not a problem, his rebbe will do it for him in first grade. so we are only talking about waiting a few years, and his rebbi will do it numerous times not just once.

One other about the First Amendment: The Mormons were forced to end polygamy at the end of the 19th century. The First Admendment did not protect the practice.
Of course, there are fundamentalist Mormon who practice polygamy in mountaneous and other outlying areas.

Can someone who knows please just answer this: Is it considered medically safe if MBP is done via a sterile glass tube?

Can someone who knows please just answer this: Is it considered medically safe if MBP is done via a sterile glass tube?

Posted by: Another | July 25, 2012 at 08:21 PM

Yes – but that presumes the mohel correctly uses a sterile pipette. If he coughs into it or breathes out through it, the risk of disease transmission would probably rise.

Breathing out into it would probably be harmless.

Hey baby, just drink some booze before you suck it, and it's perfectly safe. And then she slapped me.

But seriously folks, let the frumma suck their children's penises all they want. The more penis sucking, the better. Soon there will be a case of HIV, and then there will be lots of such cases. Darwin's theory at work.

That's a horrible thing to say.

SY, agree, the second part was not nice, but the first part was a great one-liner.

But seriously folks, let the frumma suck their children's penises all they want. The more penis sucking, the better.

Such silly talk here. This is a procedure taking a few seconds at most with a swarm of people watching. There is nothing sexually gratifying going on here.

If you must vilify a quasi-sexual profession why not start a thread on the sexual aspects of the male gynecologist?

Mike - YOURE moron a male gynecologist is doing what he is doing with the consent of a female she is an adult can go to a female one if she wants are you that thinck?.

Mike - YOURE moron a male gynecologist is doing what he is doing with the consent of a female she is an adult can go to a female one if she wants are you that thinck?.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | July 26, 2012 at 10:37 AM

You missed my point. People here are implying that there is an issue of sexual gratification involved with MBP (by virtue of using terms like "sucking a boy's penis"). Why not "explore" the "possibility" of a male gynecologist upon concluding an examination of a hottie's private parts scooting off the the men's room and jacking off?

Washington Post: The Misguided Push To Ban Circumcision (Matsav)

Pieces of the hologram…

Brit milah is a mitzvot from G-d. The Jews are a minority of 14 million in a world of 6.9 Billion. That’s just 0.202% of the total population. The number of Mohels in the world is also relatively tiny. So when little decent bits of the hologram are attacked G-d doesn’t like it. Some German “judges” are playing with fire at the moment. Remember all...Germany was a pagan culture 3,942 years ago when King Solomon reigned from Jerusalem and the First Temple stood.

P.S. People should also not confuse the MBP practise which is a custom that should be banned and brit milah which is mitzvah. Disingenuous people are trying to confuse people. On small matters of principle do empires thrive or collapse.

Adam Neira -When in rome you do what the romans do the germans can do anything they want in their own country so youre writing nonsense,every people and every country has its own values you are not the whole world you shoite.

Jancs, you bald bastard, stop taking breaks from jerking off to spew your stupidity.

I read somewhere that metzitzah b'peh (sucking) was started during the Talmudic Period (500-625 CE).

If the Ultra-Orthodox Jews decide to sue for not "allowing" this practice, they'll lose because they don't have a case!

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