Haredim Threaten “All Out War” If Yeshiva Students Are Drafted

Haredim threaten that Israel’s streets will “burn” if yeshiva students are drafted.

Haredim stoning police in Jerusalem last July

Haredim Threaten “All Out War” If Yeshiva Students Are Drafted
Israel’s streets will “burn” if yeshiva students are drafted, haredim claim.
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Haredi Knesset sources threatened an "all out war” if the Tal Law, which provided haredim with a legal way to dodge the draft, is revised in a way that includes a quota for the minimum number of yeshiva students that must be drafted, or penalties for yeshiva students who fail to comply with the revised law, Ynet reported.

The Tal Law, hated by the vast majority of non-haredi Israelis, was declared unconstitutional by Israel’s High Court of Justice. The law expires at 11:59 pm on July 31.

The haredi Knesset sources noted that senior haredi rabbis can simply issue rulings forbidding yeshiva students from serving in the army. The students will follow those rulings.

"What will they [the army, the High Court of Justice, and the government] do? Put in tanks in [the haredi city of] Bnei Brak?"

"This could be a war," another haredi source claimed.

The penalties that are likely to attach to yeshiva students who refuse to be drafted include losing government funding for those yeshiva studies and other financial penalties, some that may impact the student for the rest of his life. The yeshivas themselves could also be penalized.

A committee charged with drafting a potential replacement for the Tal Law has decided to use what Ynet calls a "carrot and stick" approach.

20% of yeshiva students – those considered to be “illuim,” “prodigies” in the parlance of the new law – would be given a permanent exemption from army service.

The remaining 80% of haredi yeshiva students would be able to defer their army service until they turn 22-years-old.

Other Israelis are subject to the draft or enlistment immediately after graduating high school and are forced to push off higher education or vocational training until their service is complete.

Haredim warned that implementing the committee’s recommendations would “set the streets on fire."

"The position of haredim is that this is not a political thing, or an issue that's negotiable. You can't find solutions for the subject of yeshiva boys' draft – there are none. You can't impose service on youths who would rather study Torah. This just can't happen," an Orthodox source told Ynet.

As many observers expected would happen, Israel’s right of center Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly is seeking to find ways to weaken the committee’s recommendations in order to avoid “dividing” the nation.

For decades, haredim have used threats of violence and mass civil disobedience, along with threats to bring down narrow coalition governments, to block attempts to draft yeshiva students.

Comments

[phillip]

Religious zealots of any faith are dangerous to the well being of the nation.

[seymour]

they are pushing it, when will the secular Israelis have the balls to confront them

[Har Idiots]

Just pull funding from their yeshivot. Why is the Israeli government funding these institutions in the first place?

[seymour]

"What will they [the army, the High Court of Justice, and the government] do? Put in tanks in [the haredi city of] Bnei Brak?"

this is a challenge to the authority of the government and law. If they get away with this what is stopping any group to do the same. This could be a fight for the soul of the nation

[gary]

Forcing these Haredi kids to enter the main stream is only a positive. These kids grow up and live an "unconscious" existence, knowing only what they know, which is for the most part is delusional nonsense that's been spoon fed to them buy their backward and ignorant community; unaware for an entire lifetime of the greater possibilities life has to offer.So of course the Haredi community fears the potential outcome of their youth entering the main stream, but forcing these kids to participate in secular life is a sociological experiment that would benefit society as a whole...worth the risk, too bad the politicians are afraid to take the bull by the horns and deal with this backward/primitive community and drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century. .

[Yochanan Lavie]

Look at the illustration. These guys throw like little girls. The Tzahal can kick their collective ass, if it wanted to. But instead some sort of political deal will be made. I say don't force them to serve; let them be conscientious objectors. But don't give a pruta in subsidies either. Let 'em starve.

If only these "toyreh" Jews would use their passion against Hamas, Iran, Hizballah, and other enemies of the Jewish people rather than fellow Jews...

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Something tells me that armchair generals & chicken hawks like Scotty, APC & Jeff will not be at the front lines in the face of a Charedi revolt

[Ricky2]

they are pushing it, when will the secular Israelis have the balls to confront them

Posted by: seymour | June 27, 2012 at 06:37 AM

Nope, the seculars are without any leadership, an army of privates. They live in small circles, like bowling leagues or poker friends - no one to call them to action. They live a life of "me" and are more concerned with what club to to party at Friday night then headier issues. Haredim on the other hand have organization and leadership so the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Something will be worked out. No way will they get themselves into a mess of trying to incarcerate thousands of their citizenry and the PR nightmare that will surely follow such a move.

[David]

Bring it on!

[Adam Neira]

The following Rabbis need to sit down with some others and discuss a few things about the Tal Law, National Service and the Redemption...

Rabbi Yehoshua Lapidos
The Chernobyl Rebbe
The Rachmistrivka Rebbe
Rabbi Yehuda Addis
Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach
Rabbi Shmuel Yaakov Bornstein
Rabbi Meir Tzvi Bergman
Rabbi Yaakov Hillel
Rabbi Aharon Biderman
Rabbi Tzvi Rothberg
Rabbi Aryeh Leib Rosenfeld
Rabbi Moshe Tzadkah
Rabbi Yehuda Aryeh Hirschler
Rabbi Yitzchok Tovia Weiss
Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch
Toldos Ahron Rebbe

[Korbendallas72]

Behold, the false priestly class and their false value system. Serve us or else! The Haredim are enslavers of men, why would they work for anything in their goddamn lives when Haredi rabbis use threats of civil war to maintain control over the enslaved? The Haredim view themselves as privileged by birth, their mere presence alone is what keeps Hashem protecting the state which they diligently work to undermine.

[thinking outloud]

i assume all out war means that they will learn more and daven harder.

Its the only obvious interpretation: during war against a foreign nation, when their lives are at stake the avrechim sitting and learning and davening are doing their part to protect the country, if not doing more than the chilonim. So when they go to war against this law, where the only real concern would seem to be maybe they will spend less time batling and more time doing productive work for their country, sitting and learning and davening would seem to be the best tactic to use..

[seymour]

Something will be worked out. No way will they get themselves into a mess of trying to incarcerate thousands of their citizenry and the PR nightmare that will surely follow such a move.

Posted by: Ricky2 | June 27, 2012 at 07:02 AM

cutoff all funding for any school that rebbies say do not join the army, cut off all benefits to families that the man does not go to the army

no problem with them since Torah solves all their problem

if Torah can protect the whole country I am feeding the yeshiva boys should be a piece of cake

[Yochanan Lavie]

Something tells me that armchair generals & chicken hawks like Scotty, APC & Jeff will not be at the front lines in the face of a Charedi revolt

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 27, 2012 at 06:58 AM

By your logic, only grizzled combat veterans have a right to opine about military matters. In a democratic society, everyone has the right to opine, since it affects the entire nation. Pray, tell us about your extensive combat experience, SA? If you have none, you're a "chicken hawk" and shouldn't have said something either.

[Baruch Shelo Asani Haredi]

"Other Israelis are subject to the draft or enlistment immediately after graduating high school and are forced to push off higher education or vocational training until their service is complete."

Actually, other Israelis do have the option of deferring their military service until after completing their higher education. This is true of medical students who defer their service until after graduation and then see patients in military clinics. Nevertheless, those who do excercise their deferment option are still subject to annual reserve duty while in school.

[seymour]

if Torah can protect the whole country from enemy attack, then feeding the yeshiva boys and their families should be a piece of cake

Posted by: seymour | June 27, 2012 at 07:26 AM

[seymour]

This is true of medical students who defer their service until after graduation and then see patients in military clinics. Nevertheless, those who do excercise their deferment option are still subject to annual reserve duty while in school.

Posted by: Baruch Shelo Asani Haredi | June 27, 2012 at 07:33 AM

then see patients in military clinics. they give something in return for their deferment, what do the heridiem give, besides just taking more benefits.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Am I the only person who sees the irony in the situation? The very people who refuse to be drafted are threatened to go to war!

[jancsibacsi]

It looks to me as though theese mindless hords of degenerate scum dont want to be bought into the 21 st century they love their misery as the saying goes misery loves company,take away their aloowences and they are all helpless invalids let them starve.

[ah-pee-chorus]

Sheketz Aroiss / archie-

you cant stay away from FM since you know the truth is found here.

[seymour]

Am I the only person who sees the irony in the situation? The very people who refuse to be drafted are threatened to go to war!

Posted by: Garnel Ironheart | June 27, 2012 at 07:40 AM

but that would be different that would be a jihad then it is ok.

[David]

If it came to a choice between a 9 mm Glock at my side and the Charedim to protect Israel and myself, I know which one I would choose!

[painful bridges]

I'd choose the human waves of Charedi cannon fodder....oh the humor

[Atheodox Jew]

Am I the only person who sees the irony in the situation? The very people who refuse to be drafted are threatened to go to war!

You're not the only one Garnel - that is EXACTLY what I was about to write!

Well maybe by being willing to go to war "mitoch shelo lishma, yavo lishma"...

[A. Nuran]

If they do it will be a very, very short war.

[Sarek]

"Of course you realize this means war!" -Bugs Bunny via Groucho Marx -- 2 good role models for them.

Also to Garnel Ironheart - excellent observation.

[Mike]

Kind of interesting that when it comes to Israel drafting them, they'll go on an "all-out war" wheras when it comes to the commonn enemies of the Jewish people (Hamas, Hezbolla, etc.) chas v'shalom they should stand and fight.

I think that the Haredi mindset is that they are the only real "Jews" and therefore have no responsibility to fight alongside us.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

The danger from Hamas is already dealt with by the standing Army. There is a concept in halacha however that against a spiritual threat, you are required to get up & fight immediately at any sign of threat. That is what the Hasmoneans who were a bunch of rabbis & yeshiva students did against the ancient Greeks.

The government approach here is foolish. 20% of the best students is too small an exemption and overreaching. Even ancient Egypt's wicked Pharoah exempted the entire tribe of Levi from bondage so that they could learn Torah. He understood that every nation has certain religious rights that should remain unmolested even if he was otherwise guilty of crimes against humanity. So where does that leave the miserable lot here? I don't think Yochanan will be doing a pro-Charedi parody of Walk like an Egyptian by the Bangles

[Jeff]

Rubber bullets. It'll be over in about half an hour.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

I am not saying by the way that the government must provide welfare subsidies to everyone either. If they cut the funds they will find a lot of willing recruits instead of trying to drag a bunch of kicking screaming conscripts against their will

Where is the common sense?

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Rubber bullets. It'll be over in about half an hour.

Posted by: Jeff | June 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

>/b>

Jeff, why the violence? Why not discuss the issues in a civil way?

[Lubavitchers are Christians]

Rubber bullets. It'll be over in about half an hour.

Posted by: Jeff | June 27, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Jeff, why the violence? Why not discuss the issues in a civil way?

[ah-pee-chorus]

end

[Jeff]

Jeff, why the violence? Why not discuss the issues in a civil way?

They're threatening violence. Go back and read the article again.

Civil discussion? With people who throw dirty diapers and flaming garbage cans every time they don't get their way?

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you really are making it harder and harder.

[ah-pee-chorus]

Haredim warned that implementing the committee’s recommendations would “set the streets on fire."

as long as theyre in charedi neighborhoods its a price well worth it.

[No Light]

Starve the fuckers out. No service, no money. Women and kids can be fed in govt. canteens. Same goes for those physically unable to serve.

See how long they can tantrum on empty bellies, spoilt, ignorant, man-babies.

[seymour]

Starve the fuckers out. No service, no money. Women and kids can be fed in govt. canteens. Same goes for those physically unable to serve.

See how long they can tantrum on empty bellies, spoilt, ignorant, man-babies.

Posted by: No Light | June 27, 2012 at 11:13 AM

Same goes for those physically unable to serve.

i do not agree here

[NLR]

In the U.S., males cannot get Federal student aid if they don't register with Selective Service (aka popularly as "registering for the draft").

So, I don't see why Israel shouldn't similarly make all yeshiva students who refuse to sign up for the IDF inelligible for State funds for their studies.

As for rabbis forbidding signing up with the IDF, once again, in the U.S. all male citizens (and foreign male immigrants and permanent residents) in the age range must sign up, regardless of religious or conscientious objector status. That matter is worked out on a case-by-case basis when the person is drafted.

So, regardless of the rabbis opinions, the students could be drafted, and it would be at that point that they could attempt to claim a religious exemption.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Starve the F'ers out

Wow! The Hamas spokesman in Gaza is more diplomatic than No Light & Jeff.

Hey APC, I think the villa in Wansee is still around, why don't you hold the joint conference with German prosecutors against Bris Milah there?

[chaim yankel]

There is a double whammy going on here. Not only are the secular israelis being asked to put their lives on the line for the charedim they are also being asked to fund their studies while they fight for them. its too much for anybody to swallow. chareidi leaders really need to rethink their approach to this because it will be war and they will be very much on the losing end. No bullets need be fired, no tanks need be revved up. its real simple -- cut off the money spigot and the yeshivas are brought to their knees -- immediately; they can't survive for two minutes without state money.

the fact is that israel is always in a fight for survival. That is classically called "milchemet mitzvah" where "even a bride from her wedding canopy" is drafted into battle. So why isn't every chareid required to serve to defend israel?

The army needs to become chareidi freindly. The charedi fear that their lifestyle will be compromised is real but it can be practically addressed and should be addressed. We would do no less for mormons or moslems. There is a real question whether the army (as opposed to the secular public) really wants the charedi hordes in their midst who will inevitably change the character of the army. IDF generals need to be real about this issue. They can't have it both ways either. If you really need and want the charedi then make reasonable accommodation for their religious lifestyle without sacrificing the integrity of the IDF. I believe this is eminently workable if both sides sat down and worked towards a real resolution. Admittedly thats a big if.

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss-HEY TZADIK WITHOUT THE TZA,YOU GOT NOTHING TO DO ALL DAY JUST BATLANEN IN FROM OF YOURE PC DI SHAYGATZ

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians
Jeff, why the violence? Why not discuss the issues in a civil way?

It' called Police (military or civilian) crowd control. This yentas are insinuating war (anarchy) against the established Israeli government. They already categorically "discussed" that there will no deviation on the intent of serve by threatening violence themselves.

If implemented (ha! http://goo.gl/CkuDe), that means that they will mean damage/injure, direct or collateral, non-haredim people (Mil or Civ), and cause property damage (governmental, civilian, or on non-haredim religious sites).

At their disposal, Police personnel have an array of non-lethal defensive weapons to control such crowds, including (yes) rubber bullets. Their use allows fast dispersion of unruly crowds with no permanent damage, and insuring non-damage contact against Police forces.

This rubber bullets were deployed recently against the "ocuppy" crowd around the world, almost all of them pacific. These bozos are threatening "War" (War, noun. A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties,... Violence).

Rubber bullets, ergo, is a form of controlling a group/party intent (in this case) to wage "War" on the State of Israel, not using "violence" specifically targeting the Haredim for their religious views.

First post, and you are already attacking the user's suggestion for the prevention of violence, instead of the potential violent aggressor's acts. Your "I'm against the Haredim methods" angle ain’t working too well, LaC.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Janci, vee nuch ken Ich mehaneh zein?

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
Something tells me that armchair generals & chicken hawks...

Yes, blah, blah, blah, hippies, left religious hating, know-it-alls etc, etc,.. Nothing I haven't seen in the Fundies forums a million times over. Old, cliche.

Gives us something really thought stopping, Sheketz. Don't rehash just demeaning posts. It's dull, repetitive, and not very informative.

Put on your best counter-argumental wit on the table, bubbe.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Baruch Shelo Asani Haredi
Actually, other Israelis do have the option of deferring their military service until after completing their higher education.

Quite correct, but they end up serving in the IDF. In this case, this lot is against even this option (not all, see: Netzah Yehuda Battalion, a 1,000 Haredim strong IDF unit), threatening violence against the draft.

Addendum: The Haredim men of the Netzah Yehuda Battalion voluntarily (and patriotically) joined the IDF in the defense of Israel, and their religious rights are still intact within the units' structure.

No excuse for those other draft dodging extremist Haredim. "Us, not Judea".

[SkepticalYid]

Haredim warned that implementing the committee’s recommendations would “set the streets on fire."

Sounds like reason enough to prosecute some of their leaders for incitement to riot and insurrection.

[western jew]

Why not just stop accepting Tax money from the State of Israel from your needs in the community and then perhaps your needs will outweigh the needs of the state when it comes to the use of your children if a draft is needed. Just a personal thought on your situation.

[John Nagle]

The Government isn't backing down.

Vice Premier Shaul Mofaz: "We will bring about a historic law that will establish a new social treaty. There are no deals. The law will mandate everyone [to serve]."

We had this during the Vietnam War in the US: "Hell no, we won't go". Most went. Some went to Canada. The haredim face the same choice.

[A. Nuran]

Now they're openly preaching sedition and terrorism. Time to stop treating them like Jews and start treating them as the terrorists and traitors that they are.

[AztecQueen2000]

They locked up draft dodgers in this country. Try that in Israel. (It's hard to light the streets on fire from a jail cell.) Also, if all they want to do is complain and act like self-righteous leeches, why are they choosing to live in Israel? (Oh, that's right. The world won't take lazy, self-righteous book-readers and bench-warmers.)

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Western Jew, there are Charedi groups who do not accept Israeli govt funds. And not all of them are Chassidic. Satmar runs a fund called Keren Hatzula that offers funding to any group in this category

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Aztec, you just described a nice chunk of Western academia who major in bird courses

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"The danger from Hamas is already dealt with by the standing Army."

Oh, let others fight for us. Manly. The IDF pool of eligible draft able Jewish men and women (secular and Orthodox) is shrinking. The vast pool of Ultra-Orthodox men (5,000 to 8,000) would fill the gap in the defensive hole widening within the Israeli Armed Forces (the Haredim men and women that have voluntarily joined is not enough).

Oh, funny side note. Do you now who maintains most of defensive control over Hamas in Gaza, the current zone of military action?. The Haredim of the Netzah Yehuda Battalion.

"(The Pharaoh) understood that every nation has certain religious rights that should remain unmolested even if he was otherwise guilty of crimes against humanity."

No religious rights are being violated here. the draft does not strip the Haredim of their religious beliefs during and after the draft. Degradation of the beliefs by contact with Secular and Orthodox IDF personnel?. The IDF Haredim continue their studies while serving, and they are afford all of their religion rights (only the highest standards of Jewish dietary laws are allowed, only women permitted on these bases are wives of soldiers and officers, and extra time is allowed for praying and learning at the cost of military time [i.e. shorter guard duty times, shorter field exercises and patrols, etc].)

"Guilty of crimes against humanity."

Wow, equating the IDF draft to religious crimes against the Haredim. Why not accuse the government of intended "Genocide" if don't serve, if you are going for the hyperbole angle?.

Don't become a motivational speaker, Sheketz. You. Are. Not. Very. Good. At. It.

Stick with the insults, that is your forte.

[blueberry muffins]

From YWN
Yated Control Case Reaches Israeli Court
(Wednesday, June 27th, 2012)
The power struggle for control of Israel’s Hebrew Yated Ne’eman newspaper continues, now making its way to the Tel Aviv District Court. The veteran leaders of the newspaper have summoned the new leaders to the court and a hearing was held on Wednesday morning, 7 Tammuz 5772.

Each side came well armed with attorneys, with Justice Ruth Ronen hearing the case. According to media reports, the case will give significant weight to the opinion of Rav Yosef Chaim Kupshitz. The latter has signed documents showing his support for the new leadership, but on the other hand, the old leaders told the court there is a video from a meeting held two weeks ago in the Ramada Hotel during which Rav Kupshitz explained he is going to abstain from taking sides.

It appears R’ Kupshitz’s position is critical since at present, the operating board is comprised of Rav Baruch Shmuel Deutsch and Rav Tzvi Friedman, both siding with the old leadership and are viewed as loyalists to HaGaon HaRav Shmuel Auerbach. There is also Rav Moshe Elinson, who supports the new leadership and is loyal to HaGaon HaRav Aaron Leib Shteinman Shlita.

The court told the parties it would study the evidence and announce a decision. Both sides emerged confident of a victory.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Gutthroatie, stop twisting my words out of context. I said Pharoah was guilty of crimes against humanity

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
Wow! The Hamas spokesman in Gaza is more diplomatic than No Light & Jeff.

See?. Repetitive, no much use of gray matter, and it pushes your own opinions on others with a demeaning manner with a complete lack of informative discussion =)

Never change, bubbe. An educated, thoughtful Sheketz that discusses his belief on the unchangeable right of the life and beliefs of the Haredim as it stands right now, in a civilized manner, would throw us off.

Continue with your scurrility posts. Monotonous, but expected ^.^

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"Aztec, you just described a nice chunk of Western academia who major in bird courses"

Oh, my sides! ^.^ Such post, Sheketz!,...

...So lacking of with, humor, a good counter-argument, vapid,... and repetitive too!. A "Sheketz" hallmark, bubbe.

Do continue =)

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss-Dont forget one thing everything that was told to you about the toireh and god was put into youre brain by programmers youre rabbis,if you would only start thinking rationally for one moment you would reallize it is all a fantasy the fabrication of youre rebbes imagination it has nothing to do with reality,think about that.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
Gutthroatie,...

Buzzzz!. So sorry, skyppy, the Fundies already have the right on that line of response.

Try harder.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

"all out war"

Where was the quote from Scotty when gargoyle clone James Carville threatened WAAAAR against those who expose Bill Clinton's sexual escapades?

[Sheketz Aroiss]

I was also thinking of GutToadie

Now admit that you twisted my words out of context

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: blueberry muffins
"Yated Control Case Reaches Israeli Court"

Uh, wrong thread?. This is the "Haredim Threaten “All Out War” If Yeshiva Students Are Drafted" article post, blueberry. Just FYI.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Nice try Janci, but Aristotle was smarter than all you FM cronies put together. And he can't convince us because he was just making excuses to pursue his desires

[seymour]

Western Jew, there are Charedi groups who do not accept Israeli govt funds. And not all of them are Chassidic. Satmar runs a fund called Keren Hatzula that offers funding to any group in this category

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 27, 2012 at 01:11 PM

that is the big lie they do, when they go to the hospital do they pay, no, so they do use the Zionist funded services do they have their own garbage collection and disposal do they drink water?

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"Where was the quote from Scotty when gargoyle clone James Carville threatened WAAAAR against those who expose Bill Clinton's sexual escapades?"

And now, a post out of left field!. The present discussion it's going, going, going!,... gone like your credibility, my dear old chap.

Fundies would have for lunch in the forums i deal with them >=)

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"I was also thinking of GutToadie"

Naw, got my name twisted much more artistically by Fundies. A full thesaurus in their mind for this purpose, those lads =)

"Now admit that you twisted my words out of context"

Your inference, your words, your post conclusion. So sad, too bad, governor.

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"Nice try Janci, but Aristotle was smarter than all you FM cronies put together.

A Greek history non-sequitur response. Too tired to use the Hitler anti-semite line, old man?.

Like a Paulov's dog. I post, you bark your ad hominem response. My own little extremist puppy!.

[No Light]

Jeff and Bob - wanna join me for some mixed kicking?

Archie Clunker's obsession with this place is borderline pathological. He even makes Deremes and Moshiach Neira seem fun and engaging by comparison.

Seymour - what is it you disagree with? I would make sure that women, kids, the disabled and chronically ill, and the elderly would be fed, and clothed. They shouldn't have to suffer because of kollel bums.

Perhaps if their welfare money was cut, and only reinstated if they do their service and ensure that their kids receive a functional education, they may think twice about their work-avoidance.

[seymour]

Seymour - what is it you disagree with? I would make sure that women, kids, the disabled and chronically ill, and the elderly would be fed, and clothed. They shouldn't have to suffer because of kollel bums.

i misunderstood you i take it back

[Jake]

All idiots line up right here.

Virtually all the charedeim go to the local draft offices to register.
How do you think they claim their deferments? DUH

Most of you folks write out of your a- holes.

You need to follow the Israeli press more closely. In the last two weeks you would have read articles about how the IDF does not want a massive charadeim draft and they are making special plans for it which is a royal pain for the IDF.

[Abracadabra]

Sheketz Aroiss is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss -Do you know mendel wahllerstein from mea shearim the satmarer money man?

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Ich ken 'em nisht, why?

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: No Light
"Jeff and Bob - wanna join me for some mixed kicking?"

Naw, he is doing that to himself quite well, it would be kind of redundant =)

Minding his time, that one. He will be back ^.^

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Seymour, I can't vouch for the entire Keren Hatzulah crowd but many of them use private generators instead of electric and also private water towers. Many jurisdictions in the US have private garbage collection so why not in Israel too? And if they get Scotty's address they might start mailing him the dirty diapers

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Guthrie, much of what you & your fellow frum haters label me with, you are guilty of yourselves. It's a combination of deflection & smokescreens. Keep convincing yourself. Maybe the Gray Lady will read your drivel and hire you to write for their "Arts" section

[WoolSilkCotton]

It is indeed amazing how the Piece of Shit formerly known as Archie Bunker, now Shaketz Aroiss, is addicted to Failed Messiah.

And the idiotic lexicon from the 1970's, the fabrications of how wholesome and self-sufficient the frumma are, and various non-sequitors laced with senseless references to Communism- oh yeah, he is addicted to FM.

[No Light]

I thought as much Seymour.

I think the invasion, of what Jansci would call "deranged anthropods", is making us all a bit frazzled!

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Jake
"All idiots line up right here." "Most of you folks write out of your a- holes."

Nothing like a good demeaning insult to expose what kind of educated, thoughtful and informative reply is coming up =)

"Virtually all the charedeim go to the local draft offices to register. How do you think they claim their deferments? DUH"

They still need to sigh for the draft, but doesn't mean that they wish or are willing to serve in the IDF. DUH

US Selective Service. US teenagers must sign up for the draft to receive federal funds. that doesn't mean they want to get drafted either. DUH

You need to follow the Israeli press more closely. In the last two weeks you would have read articles about how the IDF does not want a massive charadeim draft and they are making special plans for it which is a royal pain for the IDF.(*)

No, really?. I got the Haaretz, Jpost and YNet apps on my iPad. They don't mention anything about this .

Yes, it has been mentioned, but the news also mention that they need the Haredim for their shrinking draft pool:

-"IDF chief wants to enlist Arabs, Haredim in national service. (http://goo.gl/pDMGQ)
-"IDF chief: Israel must find a way to enlist more Haredi soldiers". (http://goo.gl/tV6D0)

(*) Strange, the current 1,000 enlisted Haredim has not made the IDF implode, and they are quite happy to do so (http://goo.gl/TkF4e). Doing quite well, thank you very much. Dying defending Israel too, like any and all good Jewish patriot soldier that has defended the State of Israel since ancient times.

Any more counter-arguments?. Lose the insults, skippy, it really doesn't put you in a good light as a debater.

What is your excuse to defend these draft dodgers that now threaten the whole of Judea?. Enlighten us, please.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
Guthrie, much of what you & your fellow from haters...

Buzzzz!. That's two, Sheketz. Seen it, read it, a thousand times over. Nothing new under the sun.

From current to no longer posting Extremist apologists, you are breaking no new ground here, yobbo.

Quite disappointing. People claim you are some old user by the name of Archie Bunker, but reading his old posts, either you have lost the vigor, or you are just a pale wannabe.

So, the same question I asked Jake I will put forward to: What is your excuse to defend these draft dodgers that now threaten the whole of Judea?.

It's not a trick question. Bark once for yes, two for no =)

[No Light]

WSC - For someone who finds this place, and everyone in it, so utterly detestable, he certainly seems to love being Iere

I wonder if has a heter.

.It's sad really,to see a grown man working with the toddler/puppy view that even negative attention is better than no attention at all.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Guppy, as I already asked why doesn't the government cut some of the funding which I don't object to and problem solved. If there was ever an exercise in futility, this is it. You are trying to drag people to the battle lines when they would go willingly if there was no more free lunch.

Eureka! Maybe it's because you lovely frum haters would have less to get worked up about

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Wool Cotton Picker,

Hello to you too

I never said all the frum are self-sustaining. Why are so offended if I relieve you of some of your ignorance and fill you in that some groups refuse any Israeli government funding? In this hemisphere Rabbi Stern's kollel in Passaic NJ does not allow for different reasons anyone to be on any welfare program.

Will it make you happier if they all drop the idea and go on the public dole? Shvantz

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Bunker, I heard that you are an expert at MBP, specializing in adolescent boys.

And if "some groups" of frumma refuse welfare, why is EVERY haredi/hasidic patient who shows up in any hospital in the NY/NJ area on Medicaid?

I thought you loyal republicans are against Socialism and government interference in your lives. Oops I forgot. The frumma like to take. They just don't want anyone else to get anything.

Bunker, please remove that little boy's penis from your mouth and enlighten me further.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Guthrie, No Light, Abra, Jancs, etc., let us enjoy the final 2 or 3 hours that Bunker is with us.

Shmarya must be taking a nap. When he awakens, Bunker will be banned once again.

But not to worry, he will continue to follow each and every posting here on FM, because we are his heroin. And he will re-emerge with a new moniker before you know it.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

20% of yeshiva students – those considered to be "illuim"

Good grief! Someone has an over inflated sense of self.

I would venture to say that the percentage of "illuim" is more like .02%.

[Jeff]

It is indeed amazing how the Piece of Shit formerly known as Archie Bunker, now Shaketz Aroiss, is addicted to Failed Messiah.

Precisely. Every time Shmarya bans him, he waits a bit, then changes his name and tries to sneak back in. I have to assume that when he didn't come around for a couple of years, he was haranguing someone on another blog until he got kicked off. Or perhaps he was here all along, masquerading as various trolls, and we didn't realize it.

Or perhaps he was in Bellevue.

Archie, you have contempt for everyone here, yet you can't stay away. Meanwhile, none of us is trolling frum blogs looking for a fight. We mind our own business and stay in our neighborhood.

You're a disturbed, unstable little boy frightened of the dark. You're terrified we may be right. Venting, denigrating us assuages your doubt for a little while - but it doesn't last for very long, does it?

What are you going to do when it doesn't work any more?

[Jacob]

The Haredim will do anything to do nothing

[Jeff]

The Haredim will do anything to do nothing

Posted by: Jacob | June 27, 2012 at 04:54 PM

Very good!

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Jacob 4:54, very good indeed!

[Sheketz Aroiss]

That's very mature & gentlemanly of WSC to spew about pediatric fellatio

If you weren't so ignorant you would know that most non Chassidish are not practicing metzitza

Did you actually learn anything during your flop experiment with Chabad or was it all a haze because you were still swinging by your old neighborhood? The crack cocaine in Irvington is supposed to be pretty good according to some press reports

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Amazing, what an addicted troll! He keeps a file from 3 years ago of whatever little tidbits he can glean about our true identities!

So how's your family in Toronto?

How about some quotes from The Little Midrash Says, you know, your only source of Torah knowledge?

[Sheketz Aroiss]

There was Toronto and you also accused me of being in New jersey over & over

And Shmarya is letting me post because he wants to hand over incriminating posts to Margulies who he thinks I am in court with

I've also been accused by others of living overseas

And you guys say that I need to get a life?

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"Something, something (insult), something."

So, to get you back in topic, what is your excuse to defend these Extremist Haredim draft dodgers that now threaten the whole of Judea?.

As a Conservative, your most agree with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and the need of the US to help defend Judea from enemies within and outside its borders, to the tune of 3 Billion dollars a year for military aid.

and with Americans Military personal serving in Israel (Intelligence mainly) defending her too, how and why the f*** you are spending time and posts insulting people here who are criticizing these cowards for not helping on the defense of their homeland, instead of criticism the cowardly draft dodgers too?.

Will you discuss the point, or just dismissively jump over, and go against the next target?. Surprise me for once.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Speaking of which, it would be quite interesting if Shmarya collaborated with Margulies, the biggest enabler of pedophiles in the last 30 years

Bunch of sleazy hypocrites, all of you

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Guthrie, I explained my position. Do you not understand my posts that use languages other than English ?

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss-You outlived youre usefullness here now morph into cockeroach.

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

Bunker, your posts are feces, and everything you say is proof that you are delusional.

The fact is, you make up shit as you go, claiming to be so all important and all knowing, when all you are good for is drumming up the number of posts.

Shmarya is letting you post because of another one of your fantasies? I say you'll be banned in about another 2 hours.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss
"Guthrie, I explained my position."

No, you made an excuse to validate the exception of the Religious Haredim from serving in the IDF under "it's a religious right that must be protected" and "The danger from Hamas is already dealt with by the standing Army". Everything after that were posts wit insults.

They, as all Jewish men or women of age, by law now, must serve in the IDF. The Tal Law comes into full effect at the end of this month, but these draft dodgers are not willing to comply, they are threatening civil unrest against the state of Israel.

So, what is your excuse to defend these Extremist Haredim draft dodgers that now threaten the whole of Judea?. The Religious angle?. Sorry, time is up on that one on the 30th.

Here, simplified:
*Do you support these draft dodgers right to not serve in the IDF?. Yes/No
*Do you support these draft dodgers on the verbal threat to cause property damage, and possibly bodily harm, against others and themselves to evade this draft?. Yes/No

Go ahead, your move. Let's see what are you made off.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Dodo aka WSC, Shmarya has threatened more than once to hand over postings to Kolko's enablers Margulies & Applegrad

Yeah, you think you are 100% balanced, the bitter creep what you are who sits around here all day spewing profanities against Orthodox Jews

[WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar]

"...Shmarya is letting me post because he wants to hand over incriminating posts to Margulies who he thinks I am in court with..."

Wow. Bunker, you really drive a hard bargain in your fantasies. In exchange for incriminating materials in a court case, you will take some 'quality time' on this blog to spew some anonymous insults at people. Such negotiating skills you have.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Bob, there is a religious right in a Jewish state that cannot be revoked by secular lawmakers. And what's wrong with those secular numbskulls anyway? As I said revoke some of the funding and presto, willing enlistment on the part of the loafers who are not productive in yeshiva

Should they dodge the draft? At least some of them have a right to even according to secular law as per the agreement with Ben Gurion

Should they resist? If the ones who are serious in their studies are forcibly dragged to a barracks then I support their resistance

You've never felt that some things voted into law in some countries are unfair?