Haredim Force MDA To Establish Rabbinic Committee, Segregate Genders

Magen David Adom (MDA), Israel’s version of the Red Cross, buckled to pressure from haredim and from haredi-leaning Zionist Orthodox rabbis and appointed a rabbinic committee to set up and enforce religious guidelines and gender segregation rules for the paramedic and disaster response service.

Haredim Force MDA To Establish Rabbinic Committee, Segregate Genders
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Magen David Adom (MDA), Israel’s version of the Red Cross, buckled to pressure from haredim and from haredi-leaning Zionist Orthodox rabbis and appointed a rabbinic committee to set up and enforce religious guidelines and gender segregation rules for the paramedic and disaster response service, Ha’aretz reported.
 
The committee will be headed by the notorious racist Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, who serves as the chief rabbi of Sefat despite Eliyahu calling on Jews there two years ago to refuse to rent apartments to Israeli Arabs; and by an unnamed Zionist Orthodox posek (adjudicator of halakha, Jewish law).

Last year, an extremist right wing group honored Eliyahu for his “actions, deeds and commitment for keeping a Jewish character in the Land of Israel.”

MDA has endured a steady stream of criticism from haredim for what they deem to be MDA’s inappropriate and immodest mixing of men and women.

MDA is funded in part by donations raised from Diaspora Jews and its mandate requires it to treat all sick and injured regardless of ethnicity, skin color and religion.

More than 2,500 haredim in Israel volunteer in MDA or for other rescue services like Hatzolah and Zaka, Ha’aretz reported.

But in February of last year, a ruling by leading haredi rabbis forbade haredim from volunteering for MDA.

“It is forbidden to volunteer for the organization, not even for the purpose of saving lives. Volunteering could, God forbid, lead to severe infractions…and [negative] spiritual influence,” the ruling stated.

MDA branches with many Zionist Orthodox and/or haredi volunteers already gender segregate, and their EMT crews are entirely male.

The new rabbinic committee began work a few weeks ago. It instructs MDA on gender issues and on science related matters.

In one case, the new committee ruled that MDA cannot transport anyone injured in an accident on Shabbat to a hospital, if that transport is requested for insurance rather than medical reasons.

The committee also wants to segregate men from women in MDA stations, so that on-duty volunteers of different sexes won’t spend the night together in the same bunkhouse.

Ha’aretz reports that MDA did not respond to questions about the formation of the rabbinic committee, but Rabbi Eliyahu did and confirmed details for Haaretz.

Comments

[Rachael]

The important thing is to make sure that these rulings do not hamper their work. I also hope that provisions are put in that if a situation arises that involves pikuach nefesh that the rules should be bent.

[benny]

well, last time I checked, it was a Jewish country after all, so it should be led in accordance to the Toireh

[seymour]

well, last time I checked, it was a Jewish country after all, so it should be led in accordance to the Toireh

Posted by: benny | June 26, 2012 at 10:49 AM

whose interpretation?

and not everybody thinks that being Jewish means one must think the Torah was divinely given.

Many people say like me say I am a Jew,but DO NOT believe that the Torah was given by god.

Sorry you arguments hold no weigh to the majority of Jews

[Alter Kocker]

Lifesaving should not be dictated by the rabbonim. Lifesaving should not be gender separated. Lifesaving has no business being subject to religious laws and arbitrary interpretation. There is no time to dispute or consider these matters that the Ultra-Orthodox would require. Are they telling us that if a woman suffers a cardiac arrest, and there is only a male MDA intervention unit available that the woman would die?

The Ultra-Orthodox/Haredim have no choice in this matter. Let their rabbis close their mouths and accept this.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

In Seymour logic, you can cheat on taxes in Greece because most Greeks break that law?

[seymour]

n Seymour logic, you can cheat on taxes in Greece because most Greeks break that law?

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 26, 2012 at 11:26 AM

no because that is the law in greece

Torah is not the law in Israel and anyway most people do not believe in fairytale

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Greeks don't believe in tax laws just as you don't believe in the principals of Jewish faith. The only fairy tale is the one your type weaves of Charedi Judaism being a new innovation when the fact is that Reform & Comservative heresy is only a couple of hundred years old while the black clad Jews you so despise have been around for ages

[seymour]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 26, 2012 at 11:35 AM

Charedi Judaism is older than reform or conservative but still relatively new from an historical perspective

[Sheketz Aroiss]

If you deny that Rashi & his Baalei Tosafos grandchildren were not Charedi, you are living in La La Land

And I could go back further than that but 1000 years ago is a starting point

Reform & Conblurbative are a new made up religion and are nevertheless assimilating themselves into oblivion

[Sarek]

“It is forbidden to volunteer for the organization, not even for the purpose of saving lives. Volunteering could, God forbid, lead to severe infractions…and [negative] spiritual influence,”
And there you have it. Let 'em die! Much preferred over committing an infraction that only you recognize. Just when you think they can't get more stupid, they up and show you that they certainly can. Jews used to be known for sachel. No longer.

[dh]

When MDA fundraises at US Hadassahs and other groups they say it is entirely funded by the US. They are not likely to inform their targets about segregation.

[Jake]

Although MDA has professional staff,it's daily activity depends heavily on volunteers.

Some areas such as Kiryat Sefer aka Modin Illit only have charade male volunteers.

Many young woman who choose national service instead of the military serve as volunteers at MDA stations,particularly Jerusalem.

Hatzalah Israel was founded because they didn't want to work with female volunteers. This started a fundraising issues primarily in the US.
Hatzalah really works under MDA umbrella as a sort of breakaway organization , but are dependent on MDA for providing almost all ambulances emergency Frequencies and in mass casualty situations they work under MDA control.

The charade volunteer force is a potent force and I believe that MDA is just trying to figure out a way to maneuver against them. Note MDA choose a releious Zionist rabbi. Not a neutral or anti Zionist rabbi.

Note non of MDA top people are religious.

As to the ruling vis a vis not transporting on Shabbat.:
As a tourist in Israel you will be charged if MDA transports you to a hospital. A Israeli HMO will reimburse MDA if the transportation is necessary for legitimate medical reasons. There are situations where people are transported when not really medically necessary but insist on it for insurance purposes.

No foul no harm.

[Barry]

Sheketz Aroiss, those tax avoiders cannot be Greeks as they no longer believe in the Pantheon of Gods and if you dispute that wealth is in the hands of Plutus then you are no Greek.

When it comes to Rome, the Hareidim are better Romans then those Italian imposters. The Talmud mentions as fact (and Haredim are therefore obliged to believe) that Romulus and Remus existed. These Italian imposters claim it is myth. The entire legitimacy of the Italian State (and the Treaty of Rome which established the European Economic Community) depends on the acceptance of Romulus and Remus as Rome's founders and these these Armani clad heretics should known that toga wearing proper Romans were around for ages.

[Rachael]

Sorry you arguments hold no weigh to the majority of Jews

Posted by: seymour | June 26, 2012 at 10:58 AM

"Majority rules". How far does one go to accommodate? CNN asks your take in the following situation:

Parents picket girl with peanut allergy, ask her to withdraw from school

A student at Edgewater Elementary School in Volusia County, Florida is being asked to withdraw from the school by her classmates' parents.

The student has a life-threatening peanut allergy and, as a result, her classmates are asked to make accommodations to ensure her safety. Some parents of children at the school say the extra steps their children are taking to ensure the girl's health, such as washing their hands or rinsing out their mouths, are taking away from their own children's learning. Meanwhile, the school is standing by its decision to make accommodations for the student.

Do your kids have allergies? What's your take on the situation?

http://am.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/24/parents-picket-girl-with-peanut-allergy-ask-her-to-withdraw-from-school/

[ah-pee-chorus]

benny and Sheketz Aroiss -

are you two ignramuses(ignorami?) under the mistaken impression that israel is a theocracy governed by the torah?
how sad....come join us in realityville.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Kids with allergies have a medical condition they can't help. Chareidism is a lifestyle choice. This is a classic red herring fallacy.

[John Nagle, Silicon Valley, CA]

Why are Americans contributing to Israel's EMT service? Israel is a developed country; they can fund their own EMT service. Why is "American Friends of Magen David Adom" (http://www.afmda.org) collecting $70 million a year for this? It may have made sense 70 years ago, when Israel was just getting going, but now?

[ah-pee-chorus]

you deny that Rashi & his Baalei Tosafos grandchildren were not Charedi, you are living in La La Land

And I could go back further than that but 1000 years ago is a starting point

Reform & Conblurbative are a new made up religion and are nevertheless assimilating themselves into oblivion

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss

wow!! you got EVERYTHING wrong. by todays standards a charedi doesnt learn secular studies except when legally forced, and even then they lie about it. chazal were often knowledgeable about the advances in science made by the non-jews of their time. today, a yeshiva bochur would have no such opportunity. and by todays standards of charedism life revolves around the concept of kollel. and kollel didnt even exist at the time of the gemara and rashi. todays charedim arent concerned with preparing their children for jobs by sending them to college. chazal, and the rishonim almost all worked for a living. the gemara REQUIRES men to work and to teach their children a trade. the rambam PROHIBITS not only learning torah for money but even TEACHING for money, though most disagree with him about teachers.
amoraim are mentioned in the gemara as having frequented prostitutes on more than one occasion. is that what you mean when you say its been around a while?
and youre wrong about assimilation too. the percentage of non-ortho jews has remained pretty steady in america for 50 years.
charedism of today is no different than reform judaism. each has totally changed the way the torah is followed to suit their varied goals and to allow them to live the life they believe would suit gods wishes. neither has much historical authenticity.

[ah-pee-chorus]

John Nagle-

because there are many american jews who want to support israel and see MDA as a way to do so. its a helluva lot better than supporting yeshivas. these donations actually save lives.

[ah-pee-chorus]

this is another example of israel caving in to charedi blackmail.

[Racheal]

Kids with allergies have a medical condition they can't help. Chareidism is a lifestyle choice. This is a classic red herring fallacy.

Posted by: Yochanan Lavie | June 26, 2012 at 01:10 PM

Nope, same issues at play. How far, if at all, does one go to accommodate a minority at the expense of the majority. Some school districts allow peanut butter at lunch some do not.Is one school district right and the other wrong?

http://www.u-46.org/food/DYK-PeanutButter.htm

[ah-pee-chorus]

Racheal -

youre dense. one is a medical condition which can be verified through testing and which will cause harm which is measurable. a religious restriction is one accepted by choice and should not be accomodated if it requires those who dont share those beliefs to have to adjust their lives or working conditions. any "danger" claimed is unverifiable.
if i say my religion prohibits paying taxes to any government should the rest of society be forced to give me a free ride
?

use your head for something other than a sheitl holder.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Homos also often choose to act perversely in pursuit of their desires

Thanks for bringing up the lifestyle choice argument

[ah-pee-chorus]

Sheketz Aroiss -

i see you gave up on your other inane arguments and now wish to change the subject. nice.

[ah-pee-chorus]

is there a charedi apologist troll handbook? because all of them seem to follow the same rules and use the same tactics. i guess yeshivas started handing them out after the internet became widespread so i didnt get one. maybe an asifa is needed to do chazara on the tactics.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Trouble reading APC? When did I mention Chazal? But now that you have, Rebbe Shaul only learned, granted he was in the minority. But so were johns. Hmmm, why are you so fixated on that anyway? Did you attend the DA's john school in Brooklyn?

I'm certain that plenty of Rishonim only learned. It's not like the Rambam was universally deferred to for anything

You're out of your mind to claim assimilation rates haven't changed in a half century when all the data proves you wrong. And it's comical that an atheist like yourself is comparing orthodox & deform.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Don't jump the gun, AyePeePee. I didn't forget about anything. Just give me time to get to the NK post

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Probably the first time that there was dedicated learning only as a movement was in the time of the Savorayim, almost 1000 before the Rishonim. There were always yechidim before that like at yeshivas Shem v'Ever

There was certainly plenty of learners only among the Achronim including the Gra who was on par with Rishonim

This is not to say that every loafer who doesn't learn should remain in yeshiva

[ah-pee-chorus]

Trouble reading APC? When did I mention Chazal?

who said you did? if youre looking back at jewish history to see a precedent for todays charedism then why not look to chazal? the tosafists and rashi were mere commentators on what chazal said and did. and not only did chazal work as a rule, but they demanded all should. do i need to quote you the relevant passages?
and rishonim were no different. read slifkins blog from a couple of days ago where he discusses the positions of chazal, ashkenazi rishonim and sephardi rishonim vis a vis work and kollel. kollel was non-existent until recently. it is a bastardization of the mesorah.

I'm certain that plenty of Rishonim only learned

name them and provide sources.

its comical that someone like yourself who advocates a lifestyle which is a huge reformation of previous judaism would have a problem with reform jews who at least have the honesty and integrity to admit theyre not following the same rules as chazal, the geonim and the rishonim.
youre both the same, only in opposite directions. the torah prohibits not only subtracting but also adding to its words.
i guess you ignore that part just as you ignore the parts demanding a man teach his son a trade. and like you ignore the admonition that one who doesnt teach his children a trade is as if he taught them to steal. chazal were quite prescient here. the charedi world is full of theft and fraud because they have no choice.
the gemara also says that torah without a career renders all your learning worthless.
reform jews are far better and more transparent.

[Racheal]

Racheal -

youre dense. one is a medical condition which can be verified through testing and which will cause harm which is measurable

If it is so clear cut then why do some school districts allow peanut butter while some so not? These two situations are similar in that what is at play is the issue of accommodation of a minority at the expense of inconveniencing the majority.

[BLP]

Chareidi Judaism can be pretty much summed up by saying, "We're right even when we're wrong and we don't have to apologize for anything."

I was a chareidi Jew, learned with 'em, etc. We/they can abuse men, women, children, goyim (non-Jews), other chareidis who we/they don't like, and so on. We/they can pretty much find any excuse for our/their behavior in the g'morrah (talmud) because the tannaim and amoraim (the "rabbis" in the the Talmud) all had their own ideas about the Universe/Torah. "We may not poskin (decide) like this or that, but I! have a m'kor (source) for my behavior (at least)." When all else fails, we/they keep shabbos, kashrut (more strictly than the neighbor), and maybe taharas hamishpachah (family purity - keeping track of menstruation, etc.) so we can do anything we want and convince ourselves of anything, too.

There are so many contradictions in chareidi and orthodox life that it is not funny. Oh, yes, but the rest of the world is full of contradictions. Yeah, and the ones who admit it and try to be decent people with the contradictions make the world a decent place to live.

[ah-pee-chorus]

If it is so clear cut then why do some school districts allow peanut butter while some so not?

i'll type slowly for you. because even when we recognize a legitimate verifiable medical condition reasonable people can disagree as to how much inconvenience can be caused to the majority in order to ensure the safety of the minority. particularly since the kids with the allergy can remain safe by not eating their friends food.
but a religious claim is not testable nor verifiable and is therefore not worthy of any inconvenience.
now can you answer my question about the religious person who says he's prohibited from paying taxes? should he be accomodated too? what if my religion requires me to drive after drinking?

[BLP]

Regarding the MDA segregation: segregating the genders has worked wonders for the child and spouse abusers in the OJ world. What, segregation by gender is not predicated on whether or not it is good for relationships between woman and man, child and adult?

When the more important issues get worked out, then we can start segregating by gender.

What, there is nothing more important than m'kayaming (carrying out) mitzvot (commandments)?

Well, let's see it!
It's OK to cheat on taxes in Israel or the US (really, that's a shulcan aruch halacha?)

It's OK to protect child and spouse abusers. (Really?)

It's OK to denigrate the people who fight to protect Jews (ie IDF, MDA, secular care givers, nurses, doctors, etc etc etc.)(Really?)

Levi Yitzchok mi'Berditchiv must be anguished in the next world.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Nope, same issues at play. How far, if at all, does one go to accommodate a minority at the expense of the majority. Some school districts allow peanut butter at lunch some do not.Is one school district right and the other wrong?

http://www.u-46.org/food/DYK-PeanutButter.htm

Posted by: Racheal | June 26, 2012 at 01:59 PM

Wrong. Chareidim don't expect to be accommodated in secular schools, so they have their own schools. Having a food allergy is not a choice (neither is homosexuality, BTW). Living as if it's 18th century Poland is a choice.

[Bob Guthrie]

Sheketz Aroiss

Ah, our Extremist Haredi special for the week!. Let's see what he offers:

*Insults.
*Demeaning behavior.
*Quoting people wrong.
*No apologizing for past Criminal demeanors of Extremist Haredim.
*False insinuation ("Anti-Torah" users, "Blind hate" against the whole of the Ultra-Orthodox Haredim).
*Smug attitude, a White Knight for the Haredim (no word on him protesting the acts of vandalism of the Neturei Karta in the prior post). Thinks he has got the upper hand (you chaps all do).
*Rehash of old Extremist Haredim talking points. Nothing new.
*Trademark phrase that he thinks is disarming and hilarious: "Anti-Orthodox Orgy" (Ha, that's so funny, I forgot to laff, Sheketz) =P

Meh, standard fare. No Nazi or Anti-semite insinuations. Now, now, follow for Rebbe's script.

So, when is your "blow our socks away" post coming?. You are working the room, tepid jokes so far, but, eh, you will teach us on the end, won't you, bubbe?.

Come on, you are on, Sheketz!. show us what you really got! (no old material, now, or a dismissive post).

[dh]

They're accommodating the allergic peanut kid because that condition rose to the level as to be covered by the ADA which mandates accommodation.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: benny
well, last time I checked, it was a Jewish country after all, so it should be led in accordance to the Toireh.

*Sigh* Benny, the State of Isreal is a Parliamentary Republic that operates under a parliamentary system of government (i.e. no clear-cut separation of powers between the executive and legislative branches),...

Not a Theocracy, a form of government in which official policy is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided, or is pursuant to the doctrine of a particular religion or religious group (thanks, Wikipedia!).

The Torah is the first five books of the "Jewish Bible", and contains narratives, statements of religious law and ethics. It is not the (political) law of the land, it's the laws of G-d governing religion conduct in Israel.

Contrary to the Haredim Rabbinate's misogynistic views, the role of Women in Judaism is much greater that they are willing to admit (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/women.htm), which makes this Ambulance service's gender segregation contrary to the word of G-d.

But, eh, leave it to the Extremist Haredim to screw up G-d's laws for their own religious purpose =P

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: Racheal | June 26, 2012 at 03:15 PM

They're not at all comparable since peanut allergies can be deadly. No one ever died because someone of the opposite gender tendered medical care.

[Bob Guthrie]

Haredim Force MDA To Establish Rabbinic Committee, Segregate Genders

"Magen David Adom (MDA), Israel’s version of the Red Cross, buckled to pressure from haredim and from haredi-leaning Zionist Orthodox rabbis and appointed a rabbinic committee to set up and enforce religious guidelines and gender segregation rules for the paramedic and disaster response service."

Swell. How were they "forced"?. How does a Extremist Religious group take over an essential civilian disaster response company?. Oh G-d, the Magen David Adom is the only primary land ambulance service in Israel. *facepalm*

"The committee will be headed by the notorious racist Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, who serves as the chief rabbi of Sefat.

Last year, an extremist right wing group honored Eliyahu for his “actions, deeds and commitment for keeping a Jewish character in the Land of Israel.”

Why?. How?.

"MDA has endured a steady stream of criticism from haredim for what they deem to be MDA’s inappropriate and immodest mixing of men and women."

Oh, we can't have that, can we?.

"More than 2,500 haredim in Israel volunteer in MDA or for other rescue services like Hatzolah and Zaka, Ha’aretz reported.

But in February of last year, a ruling by leading haredi rabbis forbade haredim from volunteering for MDA."

Why, because it will bring “Bloodshed, Incest, and Idolatry”?.

“It is forbidden to volunteer for the organization, not even for the purpose of saving lives. Volunteering could, God forbid, lead to severe infractions…and [negative] spiritual influence,” the ruling stated."

"Not even for the purpose of saving lives." Hey, FM Extremist Haredim, justify this!.

"The new rabbinic committee began work a few weeks ago. It instructs MDA on gender issues and on science related matters."

Uffah, Science by Extremists Haredim. that's an oxymoron for you. Like Fundies and "Intelligent Design" or denying Global Climate changes (http://goo.gl/36fsY).

"In one case, the new committee ruled that MDA cannot transport anyone injured in an accident on Shabbat to a hospital, if that transport is requested for insurance rather than medical reasons."

Try this anywhere else on the world, civilized country or not, and they would run them out of town on a rail.

"The committee also wants to segregate men from women in MDA stations, so that on-duty volunteers of different sexes won’t spend the night together in the same bunkhouse."

Eh. Will they allow and all Female crew to man an Ambulance, or will they be relegated to desk duty? (I'm betting on the second one). How will they handle Women in distress wearing only their underwear or nightgowns at night. How about Arab Jews?. Ethiopian Jews?. Christians?. Palestinians?, Illegal immigrants?.

More on this latest brain fart from the Extremist Haredim Rabbinate later, but now, a few counter posts by the usual Extremists Haredim apologist suspects.

[Bob Guthrie]

A ruling by leading haredi rabbis forbade haredim from volunteering for MDA."

"Not even for the purpose of saving lives."

Oh, Mighty G-d in Heaven, I still can't wrap my head around this statement >.<

[Bob Guthrie]

Lets play "one thing is not like the others":

In Egyptian news: "Islamic Muslim Brotherhood Egypt President will appoint Egyptian Female as VicePresident."

In US news: "The Pentagon is unveiling plans to allow women to serve in thousands of military jobs closer to the battle front."

In Jewish news: "IDF trains first Religious Woman Fighter Pilot."

In Haredi news: "Haredim Rabbinate continue to treat Women as second class citizens, Haredi offshoot Lev Tahor forces them to wear Burqas."

[Jeff]

If you deny that Rashi & his Baalei Tosafos grandchildren were not Charedi, you are living in La La Land

And I could go back further than that but 1000 years ago is a starting point

Uh huh. Everyone knows the Rambam wore a black hat. Miriam wore a sheitl, and Moshe Rabbenu had a closet full of kapotehs (or bekashes - I never could tell them apart). I have a photo of him shuckling as he davened on a sand dune.

Haredism is the Jewish equivalent of evangelicalism. They're about the same age, each was a fearful reaction both to modernity and to liberalizing movements within its own religion and each claims an unbroken line back to its religion's beginning - a claim that can in no way be substantiated.

Your world is dying. You tout your growing numbers, but those numbers are killing you; you can no longer provide for them. You don't educate your children, you discourage them from seeking employment outside of your world (when you encourage them to work at all) and you can accommodate only so many mashgiachim and purveyors of holy seforim. You'll be lucky to last another generation - and when you go, you'll be taking most of Orthodoxy with you.

Unfortunately, you'll almost certainly take Israel with you as well.

[Jake]

MDA is a quasi governmental agency established by the Knesset in the 1950s as the Magen David Adom Law.

As such it is exempt from import duties,VAT taxes and income tax.
They have the exclusive use of the symbol a Red star of David. Allotter ambulance services use a blue star.

MDA is the national first responder for medical emergencies and when you call the Israeli equivalent of 911 you will get MDA dispatchers.
( note Israel does not have a unified emergency dispatch telephone number which includes fire,police and health. I have forgotten which is MDAs number. It is either 101,102 or 103.

They are also in charge of evacuation and emergency medical care at all mass casualty events.

Unlike most western countries they are minimally funded by the government.

Their revenue is based on compensation for ambulance runs,sale of blood products to hospitals processed by the MDA blood bank at Tel Hashomer Sheba Medical Center. MDA provides 95% of Israels blood banking needs.

Approximately 25-30% of its annual income comes from overseas donors.

MDA maintains a reserve fleet of approximately 350 ambulances to be manned primarily by volunteers during times of national emergency.