Game On!

The head of the Brooklyn D.A.’s Rackets Bureau wants to prosecute rabbis and community activists who tamper with, threaten, harass, or intimidate victims or their families, or who otherwise obstruct justice.

Michael Vecchione

Game On!
The head of the Brooklyn D.A.’s Rackets Bureau wants to prosecute rabbis and community activists who tamper with, threaten, harass, or intimidate victims or their families, or who otherwise obstruct justice.
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

The head of the Brooklyn D.A.’s Rackets Bureau wants to prosecute rabbis and community activists who tamper with, threaten, harass, or intimidate victims or their families, or who otherwise obstruct justice, the Jewish Week has just reported.

Michael Vecchione told the Jewish Week’s Hella Winston that his office was willing to do everything to prevent witness tampering, intimidation and obstruction of justice in haredi child sex abuse cases including “[picking] up the phone and [calling] the U.S. attorney” to encourage federal prosecutions.

“We should not be limited by what [people in the community] believe intimidation is,” Vecchione said. “[Ostracism] could be [intimidation]. The statute is specific yet broad enough, and there is a catch-all phrase that would get us into that. We should be limited by nothing. [Community members] should just bring to us what they have and then we will go from there,” Vecchione said in a lengthly interview with Winston.

Vecchione went on to say that rabbis who contend that reporting child sexual abuse to police with a rabbi’s permission is mesirah, a violation of the Jewish law against informing that is punishable by death according to Jewish law, could be charged with obstruction – depending on when the statement was made, who it was made to and whether or not the statement could be tied to a specific case rather than being a general teaching.

This appears to contradict the position of his boss, D.A. Charles Hynes, who told Zev Brenner’s radio audience earlier this week that rabbis labeling something mesirah is a religious matter that his office would not interfere with.

“No legal authority ... allows me to object to [such statements] … because they are a religious interpretation,” Hynes said.

James A. Cohen, a professor at Fordham Law School and an expert in the area of witness tampering told Winston he disagrees with both Vecchione and Hynes.

“A [general], public statement is obstruction,” Cohen told the Jewish Week. “In this country we respect religion … but that doesn’t give [religious leaders] license to stand at the pulpit and say ‘you must consult with a religious figure … before you go to the authorities.’ This is obstruction of justice, plain and simple.”

“Where Hynes gets it wrong is that he cannot prosecute someone for the content or viewpoint of their speech, but he can prosecute them for inciting imminent lawless action,” Marci Hamilton, the Paul R. Verkuil chair in public law at Cardozo School of Law, told Winston. “Where the rabbis are inciting their congregations to obstruct justice or endanger children, they are crossing the line from protected speech to illegal conduct.”

Vecchione said that the D.A.’s new task force on the harassment and intimidation of haredi victims and their families by rabbis and community figures might consider convening an investigative grand jury. It’s “a very powerful tool in terms of investigating organized crime. The techniques that we use to investigate organized crime can very well be used in this situation as well,” Vecchione said.

“Tell people that they have someone they can come to,” Vecchione told Winston.  “And that our rackets division is open for business.”

Comments

[Truth]

So is James A. Cohen saying that its illegal for a rabbi to preach that according to(his interpretation)of Jewish law you are not allowed to go the police? If that's the case are we permitted to print and sell old Seforim that rule similarly?

[Truth]

Although a rabbi might not have a free license to stand at the pulpit and say ‘you must consult with a religious figure. Whats if he says the following: according to beit yosef second volume..... you are not allowed to go to the police?

Can you contact professor James A. Cohen to give us a better understanding of what is legally allowed?

[jancsibacsi]

Theese rebbes need a dose of their own medicine:)

[Fleishike Kishke]

Wonderful. WONDERFUL!!! Don't stop at obstruction. Clean up Haredi criminal activity. Make sure you don't neglect Crown Heights. Investigate every single organization. Your success rate will be great for your career.

[dh]

I'm getting hoarse from screaming this : RICO!!!

Truth, the "C " stands for 'conspiracy '. Even if the evil of one rabbi in his pulpit talking about beit whatever isn't actionable, the whole regime is doing it with a common goal is.

Awww Shmarya, we heart u even more.

[Alter Kocker]

Cannot wait for the first prosecution. Cast them out into the prison system: We'll see how long they stand behind their perpetrator friends when they are fighting off their fellow inmates.

[Jake]

Yascher Koach Shmarya !

[go!]

great news !i wanna see her do it

[Chaim]

Lots of hot air and political posturing here. The principle of free speech is very powerful here in this country coupled with the severity of what it means to put someone in jail. It would have to be proven that a speech was done for the intended purpose of obstruction would be a tough one to prove. This would be coupled with the aversion to throw religious figures in jail simply because of a sermon as opposed to a direct comment about a specific case.

I have no idea what these "experts" are smoking. The only thing that would hold any water is if a rabbi would directly tell someone to not go to the police - and that person had better have some form of a recording device or witnesses to back it up (lest anyone simply say I went to rabbi so-and-so and he told me not to go to the police).

[jewishwhistleblower]

From same article:

>This information included allegations of
>witness tampering and obstruction by
>named rabbis and community-based
>organizations. Lipner was apparently told
>that these staff members [Kol Tzedek]
>would be putting
>an assistant district attorney from the
>rackets bureau in touch with him, but
>this never materialized, according to
>Lipner.

It's time for the Brooklyn DA to speak to Lipner, investigate his information/documentation and if appropriate (which it likely is) indict the rabbis and community-based
organizations on witness tampering and obstruction of justice charges. If not this is just more talk.

[Devorah]

Now they just have to get this info out to the parents before the parents discard their computers and eliminate internet access.

Great job on never giving up on kids, Failed Messiah. You are a relentless true hero.

[my 2 cents]

Throwing some one out of shul is called intimdation. Throwing your kids out of school is intimidation. Etc. Putting money down that within a month they will catch at least one fish. Kayn yirbu

[A. Nuran]

Chaim, free speech protections have never extended to witness tampering, perjury or concealing violent sexual crimes.

[Chaim]

Chaim, free speech protections have never extended to witness tampering, perjury or concealing violent sexual crimes.

Posted by: A. Nuran | June 06, 2012 at 03:55 PM

I was only referring to generic pulpit speeches.

[Jake]

Unfortunately Asher Lipners credibility as a witness maybe somewhat tarnished as he illegally practiced psychology without a license and while not under supervision which was another cover up in the Jewish community.

Rabbis and other professionals knew but said nothing. SOS

Note Lipner has acquired his license.

[Garnel Ironheart]

But how are you ever going to prove such coercion occured when no one will admit it?
See, here's the thing about smart bullies. They know that their opponents will show up for a short period of time so they just wait for them to leave...

[Irene]

Without solving the problem about publicity all this will do is change tactics.

As an example. If there is a rabbi who truly believes that it is against the religion to go to the secular police. In the past he would have said, if approached, "you are not allowed to go to the police, it is against the religion" he could now say. "By NYS law you are required to go to the police and by Jewish law you are forbidden to go to the police, those are the facts". So the rabbi simply put all the cards truthfully on the table, and by virtue of him not stating what should be done he did nothing wrong in stating the facts as he sees it. In fact if stated as such, he actually places the criminal burden on the parents in that the parents were informed that by secular law they are required to go to the police. As a rabbi he simply stated the religious law as well as he believed it to be.

[JUST WONDERING]

Would this also impact on the threat of a seruv if someone refuses to answer a hazmana ( for whatever reason ) As we all know, not too many folks are afraid of a seruv these days, but ( offically ) the one who receives it from a bais din is supposed to be ignored, no aliya, considered untrustworthy re hechsherim, etc. The Mormons call it "shunning." So, does the threat of ostracism via seruv intimidation come under this umbrella ? Would this entitle someone who is being harrassed by a bais din for going to civil court the ability to turn around & bring charges against those Rabbis ? Or, is this only for criminal, and not civil cases ??

[Korbendallas72]

Yasher koach!

I doubt anything will actually come of this but yasher koach. They have to pay lip service every now and then. We'll see who gets arrested for what, tried and convicted, and who holds pidyon shuvim for a sodomite. That's all these people are, this is what they all have in common in one way or another. Everyone is on the take, there is no reason to believe anything will be different this time. The haredim have completely destroyed their credibility and any faith I personally may have had in their way of life. If they can't protect the weakest among them then what the fuck are they good for? Nobody needs the Torah study of a godless sodomite.

[Howard Fish]

Posted by: Irene | June 06, 2012 at 06:03 PM

Irene, obstruction especially its prosecution of basically applies if the obstruction is being done on a specific ongoing criminal case. It holds no water if statements are uttered in the abstract.

From a prior story:

According to Vecchione, this hinges on whether the person is speaking generally or whether the “intimidating statement” can be connected to “a particular case … in which a person decides not to come forward or change their testimony or something of that nature.”

“There has to be a connection between what the potential defendant and/or intimidator says and the witness in a particular case,” he continued, noting that this could be “very difficult” to establish.

[Howard Fish]

I meant to say "From The Jewish Week"

[MarkfromShortHills]

Were it not for the unceasing efforts of Shmarya and Winston and others of their ilk, this would never have happened. Congratulations to them, and thank G_d for freedom of the press!

[spacedout BT]

Going how many years back?

[S M L]

“...[picking] up the phone and [calling] the U.S. attorney” to encourage federal prosecutions..."

It will take doing that: a prosecutor calling the Feds. Need to get a Federal task force involved, one that's not beholden to Haredim and not subordinate, ultimately, to Hynes. I tried calling the US Attorney here in Massachusetts to pass on this story thinking he could do something internally; he referred me to the Civil Rights division of DOJ in Washington; left a message and never received a call back. The Feds clearly know about all this - they'll need to be forced to become involved.

[dh]

Contact your US Senators and Reps

[shmuel]

Long overdue. Looking forward to seeing who the brave rabbis are who will advise people to ignore their legal obligations, etc. Cannot wait to read about the prosecution of these scum.

[under duress]

Whoa. Stocking up on popcorn for this one.

[chaim yankel]

Another desperate ploy by Hynes to save his political career. Where were you till now Charlie. Playing footsie with Chaim Deutsch. Where are Shomrims pedophiles Hikinds pedophiles all of the kids that have been molested due to the deliberate suppression of Charlie and Henna. All these Brooklyn bullshit artists want to do is control the agenda and the process so they can ultimately sabatoge it. Hey Charlie shut down the Satmar Mikva in Williamsburg. I shudder to think how many kids get molested their. Who wants to run against Hynes sitting duck what he is. he's our own Joe Pa. resign now Hynes.

[Jeff]

James A. Cohen, a professor at Fordham Law School and an expert in the area of witness tampering told Winston he disagrees with both Vecchione and Hynes.

“A [general], public statement is obstruction,” Cohen told the Jewish Week. “In this country we respect religion … but that doesn’t give [religious leaders] license to stand at the pulpit and say ‘you must consult with a religious figure … before you go to the authorities.’ This is obstruction of justice, plain and simple.”

I don't see how he's disagreeing with Vecchione.

In any case, unfortunately, I'm forced to agree with those of you who are saying this lacks teeth. I think it's probably just for show.

Hopefully, I'm wrong. I would absolutely LOVE to see a confrontation. Let them throw a few rabbis into jail - they gedoylimer, the better. Then let the adult children begin to act out - rioting, screaming, throwing burning garbage cans - and let the world see them for what they truly are. Hopefully it'll get some of their subsidies taken away. They may actually have to start educating their children, preparing them for life in the 21st century, chos v'sholem!

[unknown]

Shmrya i think you should post this

http://www.adkanenough.com/email-from-the-father-of-an-abuse-victim-sent-to-ad-kan-in-response-to-zev-brenners-interview-with-rabbi-shapiro-from-london.html

[Zalman]

“There has to be a connection between what the potential defendant and/or intimidator says and the witness in a particular case,” he continued, noting that this could be “very difficult” to establish.

I guess this is the litmus test for prosecution.

[Yerachmiel Lopin]

I suspect that Agudah will help the rabbis out by coaching them on how to avoid being arrested.

If anyone does get arrested I hope it is someone from Agudah or Ohel.

[Shmuel]

Second that.

[Calany.wordpress.com]

The promises to prosecute are designed to appease an outraged public, something politicians do very well. In reality, EVERY single case that was brought too them on intimidation, they minimized. They shut you up twisting the law logic in your face, until they have no reason to prosecute. Victims know this oh too well.

[The Mashgiach]

"prosecute rabbis and community activists who tamper with, threaten, harass, or intimidate victims or their families, or who otherwise obstruct justice." Why can't you just say,"anyone who..."?

[Shmarya]

Why can't you just say,"anyone who..."?

Posted by: The Mashgiach | June 18, 2012 at 10:30 AM

The idiot passive aggressive troll wants to know why not?

Because the people who normally commit those crimes are rabbis and haredi community activists.

Process that.