Another Baby Hospitalized With Herpes From Metzitzah B'Peh

Another infant is hospitalized in NYC with metzitzah b'peh (MBP) transmitted herpes – which can be fatal and which also can cause permanent brain damage.

Metzitzah b'peh in Israel

Originally published at 9:46 pm CDT Tuesday 6-26-2012

Another Baby Gets Herpes From MBP
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

An Orange County infant has been hospitalized after contracting a deadly strain of the herpes virus from metzitzah b'peh (MBP), the direct oral-to-genital sucking done by the mohel to the baby's bleeding penis during the Jewish circumcision ritual as practiced by hasidic and some other ultra-Orthodox and Orthodox communities, Health Department officials told Newsday.

The now month-old infant was admitted to NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Columbia University Medical Center in Manhattan last week.

Two babies in New York City died from MBP-transmitted herpes over the past 11 years and two others suffered serious permanent brain damage. Other's were hospitalized, some for extended periods of time.

The New York City Department of Health was notified of the new hospitalization early last week. Tests done Friday confirmed that  the child has herpes. The child’s current condition is not known.

Last month the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a report on MBP in New York City. It found that infants who have MBP are 3.4 times more likely to get herpes than those infants who do not.

Newsday reports that NYC DOH is thinking about requiring hospitals to take genital swabs to aid forensic investigators in determining the identity of the mohel, similar to the way rape kits have help iidentify rapists. This is necessary because haredi parents almost always refuse to cooperate with DOH investigators and won't identify the mohel who circumcised their child.

Comments

[Rocky]

I hope the Germans don't read this.

[ah-pee-chorus]

the mohel and parents should be arrested.

[danny]

I'd donate money to Failed Messiah if Shmarya would cease from using that photo for future posts on MPB.

It is so fucking disturbing that I get nauseous seeing it.

[Abracadabra]

How can genital swabs make a difference unless the infant is hospitalized within 3 hours after the bris? And how likely is that to happen. After the infant's first diaper change, the "evidence" that would be swabbed by the hospital is wiped away!

And even if it weren't wiped away with the first diaper change, if the law would start to require the hospital to swab the babies brought in with herpes, the mohels will simply start doing a post-metzitzah alcohol treatment, erasing their fingerprint.

If people don't want to cooperate, there is nothing to do to force them to. You can punish them, but that's about it. If that horse wants to die of thirst, you're not going to get him to drink. If the people doing MBP can't get into their heads that they are causing SOME babies to die or get irreversibly brain damaged and they should stop doing MBP, JUST AS THEY STOPPED DOING MBP IN EUROPE 150 YEARS AGO, there is nothing you can do to stop them, other than punish them and hope that will prevent them from doing it again.

Chareidim are not the only mammals that kill their newborns. It's just that the rest of those that do are non-human mammals like mice, rats, etc.

[Abracadabra]

Danny -

I'd donate money if Shmarya would keep this blog running. It's so **** disturbing.

[Jake]

Time to ban MBP.

Make it illegal and require licensing of mohalim.
They need not be physicians, but need to pass exams and a practical exam.

Just like the Motor Vehicle Departmen provides services in foreign languages they can hire people who speak Hebrew or Yiddish , to train and qualify mohalim.

[Abracadabra]

Jake, what difference will exams make? If they are religiously committed to MBP they will do MBP even if they took a course or an exam that says they shouldn't do MBP.

They compare the city and state's probes into MBP to the Chanukah story where Bris Milah was made illegal by the Yevanim. They say just like THEN the Jews risked their lives to keep mitzvos like Bris Milah, so too they have to! Their religious zeal will cause them to riot and do other illegal things in order to protect their "right" to risk irreversable injury and death to their newborns because of their misguided religious beliefs. How would exams and licenses make a difference when they have these attitudes about it?

[David]

Again. Again? How is it that the frumma don't understand that MBP is wrong in so many ways - Halachichally, medically and just basic dignity.

[David]

Above should have read "and just basic reasons of dignity" not "and just basic dignity".

[Nachum]

I'm pretty sure I know that mohel- I've been at britot he's done. He's an MD and brother of very well-known Roshei Yeshiva. Geez, I hope he's using a syringe...

[No Light]

Abra - the vesicles of herpetic lesions produce fluid. This fluid is highly virulent, and as such is packed full of DNA.

By culturing and analysing the genetic fingerprint of the infectious fluid in the vesicles, medical staff can compare cases against each other.

OK, so let's say Mohel Levi has herpes, and we call his unique strain NYC1. Mohel Silverman has OC1, and Mohel Kaplan has MBP1. Babies infected by these mohelim will have a variation of the strain particular to each mohel.

When babies end up in hospital their sores are typed, and the type recorded. If six babies have the same strain, then the hospital will assume there's one Mohel. Getting just one parent to name that mohel means all six cases can be linked to him.

If the six babies have three strains between them, then it's obvious that there are three dangerous mohelim who mend to be stopped.

The same is already done for HIV/AIDS in certain places, to help track infections, and also to study how the virus evolves.

In the case of herpes it's not a perfect solution, the mohel has to have a break out that can be swabbed, but even knowing how many infected mohelim are practising, in a given area, can be useful.

[Jeff]

Newsday reports that NYC DOH is thinking about requiring hospitals to take genital swabs to aid forensic investigators in determining the identity of the mohel

They're thinking about it. Great. We wouldn't want to rush into anything.

[Abracadabra]

No Light -

Thank you for the explanation.

I was under the impression that the purpose of swabbing was to identify the mohel by his saliva or other genetic fingerprint.

As you can see I am a layman in this area. What you wrote was very informative.

[jancsibacsi]

Theese ultras need to feel they are somebodies so they go and do outrages behaviour like mbp to get the attention they crave for from the societies they live in they dont care about the life of the baby on about their own immidiate needs ,they should be put into an insane asylem they are evil,it is adisgusting behaviour and they choose to ignore or blind to their stupid outdated ritual.

[SkepticalYid]

In the case of herpes it's not a perfect solution, the mohel has to have a break out that can be swabbed, but even knowing how many infected mohelim are practising, in a given area, can be useful.

Posted by: No Light | June 27, 2012 at 01:45 AM

Even if they don't have a break out, a western blot would determine antibody status, and a more definitive differential could be performed with pcr and serology.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Danny: What is more disturbing to me about the picture is that the mohel is wearing a white kipa sruga. That means he's not chareidi, but Modern Orthodox. They should know better. But as Jeff points out, true MO is an endangered species.

[Korbendallas72]

Look, some babies die when we pass them ove the fire. We can immediately weed out the weak ones and simultaneously satisfy our unholy masters. Come on, the Jews are too fucking stupid to ever figure out, for we and we alone are keepers of Torah! Right?

[Adam Neira]

Bris Milah Under Attack? NYC Urges Parental Waiver for Bris (Matsav - May 2012)

Circumcision is not under attack. The practise of metzitzah b’peh is. This article is specious. Metzitzah b'peh should be banned. End of story. This is a simple halakhic issue to solve. The sucking ritual as part of the bris is not mentioned in the Pentateuch and even if it is a custom that has been passed down from mohels through the centuries does not make it right in this day and age. We don't push goats off cliffs anymore to absolve our sins etc. etc. Sometimes it amazes me that in 2012/5772 the thinking of various "sages" and "scholars" is so medievil.

Next issue...

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: Yochanan Lavie | June 27, 2012 at 07:05 AM

Yoch, given the fact that the photo gives evidence that the Mohel is MO, it's distinctly possible that he's using a pipette. This might not actually be a photo of MBP

[Alexander]

adam neira: when the holy temple will be rebuild, we will push again goats over the cliffs, as per Metzitza, is done by some muslims as well, jewish babies dying from it is maybe one in a million, whilst non jewish babies dying from any other diseases is greater.

Instead, the mohel should submit a blood test every two weeks, if he is a carrier, then he should stop.

[Adam Neira]

To Alexander,

No, pushing goats off cliffs will not become a feature of Jewish practise in the unfolding Messianic Era. The Third Temple will be built within the next 38 years and again metzitzah b'peh should be banned. We are on this planet to try and make things better. If you can stop one baby dying unnecessarily then you should do it. A regime will prosper or implode on its core principles. The true rights of children have been denied since Moses was a boy.

Prayers for this Orange County baby.

[Jeff]

Danny: What is more disturbing to me about the picture is that the mohel is wearing a white kipa sruga. That means he's not chareidi, but Modern Orthodox. They should know better. But as Jeff points out, true MO is an endangered species.

Posted by: Yochanan Lavie | June 27, 2012 at 07:05 AM

You're right; I missed it.

That's very disturbing. As the years go by, they try increasingly to prove to Haredim that they, too, are "real" Jews.

[danny]

Skeptical Yid... there is no pipet in this photo.

The Mohel's hand is visible in the photo to the side. He is not holding a pipet. He is diving face first into the baby crotch, aided by the man holding the legs apart.

Look at the photo. There is no mistaking it. This is MBP!

[Shoshi]

Meanwhile a segment of Conservative rabbis is trying to become what MO used to be, and they want to enforce levels of observance and dogma among congregants and day school families. What is people's issue?

[khgjkkj]

"And even if it weren't wiped away with the first diaper change, if the law would start to require the hospital to swab the babies brought in with herpes, the mohels will simply start doing a post-metzitzah alcohol treatment, erasing their fingerprint."

Uh...

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: danny | June 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM

I don't see both hands, so I'm not entirely willing to dismiss the possibility that he's using a pipette.

[just saying]

In my opinion, I think it's religious men with the desire to be pedophiles or maybe just gay, but since that isnt kosher, they try to be like biblical Pinchas who channeled his character trait of anger into protecting the honor of G-d and killing adulterers...likewise, these mohels believe they are channeling their lustful desires into a mitzva. And THEY will tell you how a bris is necessary to curtail the boy's lustful desires when he grows older.

Sure, go pour alcohol on an open bleeding wound of a newborn infant and ignore the shrieks and wails and just stuff his mouth with a wine dipped pacifier. Whoever does that thinking they are erasing their fingerprint -- may he ever ejaculate a stream of alcohol into a river of fire.

[mimi]

Question: "How can genital swabs make a difference unless the infant is hospitalized within 3 hours after the bris? And how likely is that to happen. After the infant's first diaper change, the "evidence" that would be swabbed by the hospital is wiped away!"

Answer: Viral DNA from the pus filled oozing sores.

[Solly]

Shmaria,

Pls remove this disgusting picture attached to this article!! (No more need to be said)

[Shmarya]

Pls remove this disgusting picture attached to this article!! (No more need to be said)

Posted by: Solly | June 28, 2012 at 12:28 AM

Why?

It's the MBP you shill for, the MBP your rabbis claim is a mandatory part of the bris, even though normative halakha has always said that it isn't.

Let everyone see what you really are.

[Stephen]

wtf? why are we even debating this? - make circumcision illegal never mind rabbi baby genital sucking - I mean - words fail me.

[Clarimonde]

@ Solly: why remove the picture? The act is disgusting, yes, but by removing the picture you don't cure the religious perversity. It should be shown to world so people will know and condemn. Religious perversity should be proscribed.

[rational man]

if one knows he is infected with herpes he is a rodeph if he performs MBP and should be reported

[Alex Napier Holland]

If you mutilate a baby's genitals and suck it's dick you are a pedophiliac monster and should be locked up for decades.

NO DEBATE. The fact it's been done for thousands of years in the name of religion makes it WORSE - NOT acceptable!

[Ed]

Why isn't MBP considered sexual assault and punished as such?