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June 13, 2012

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Amanda

I read here a lot, but don't generally post. But the poverty statistics being brought up from this study kind of reminds me of what's going on in the blind community. Except we have a 70% unemployment rate, and most blind people can't get jobs due to the inaccessibility factor when it comes to most of the technology used in a lot of jobs. For instance, cash registers. If they don't talk, for instance, blind people can't use them. Except if you've ever worked, (which I was doing and very happily until I lost my job in 2009), and since I paid into the system and am living on my own and don't have kids, it limits what I can receive until I can get back on my feet and get another job. So yeah, it really does piss me off when other Jews can manage to have nice houses, food on the table regularly, and then have nice bling of the judaica variety on top of it, and be receiving benefits.

Jessica Cole

It is unprecedented in all of Jewish history that a large proportion of Jews fail to work, be educated or be productive members of society.

It is not the Jewish Way and it will destroy us all.

Shoshi

Amen, Shmarya!

Audrey the Liberal

Frankly it wouldn't bug me in the slightest to see every last one of those government boondoggles (i.e. section 8, food stamps etc.) get thrown into the dist-heap of history.

Jeff

Well, I could see that I would be the leading suspect when someone makes a witty comment.

I see the intervening years have done nothing to enhance your intellectual prowess. You're you're too brain dead to feel any shame over the fact that years after your departure, you're still an object of contempt.

If you and your kind are all that will be left of Judaism, there's no reason to stay.

You were clueless years ago, and you're clueless now.

David

And that's for those of you who have any descendants at all.

Thanks for enforcing the point.

Posted by: Archie Bunker | June 14, 2012 at 06:34 AM

Good on you for your great Ahavas Yisrael in consideration of all your fellow Yidden that may not have descendants due to various reasons such as infertility, inability to find a shidduch or simply that Hashem decreed so! Typical arrogant frumma! Oh didn't you know? The Rebbe had no descendants either. What did he do wrong? And what about babies and children that die before they can reproduce?

Nice one!

Yochanan Lavie

Just Thinking: Good comment.

The fact that a Nazi scumbag trolls here shows that the deplorable chareidim commit Chillulei (plural?) Hashem. Of course, they will blame the messenger, Shmarya, and those who support him. That is a distraction from their own indefensible behavior, as is pointing out that others do it, too.

We are supposed to be Ohr l'Goyim (A light unto the nations). What kind of message are Jews sending if the most visible ones act badly?

JustThinking

I don't know if any of the above commentators know the US tax system well, but I do. Our tax system is built in a way, that if you know the laws well, you can LEGALLY work it out to show you have no income in almost every business.
The abusrd system of LLCs Corps, tax deductions for the most random things, banks overseas and a billion other loopholes all add up to a system which does not work.
Haredim, not all, but many, have worked this system well, just as many of the largest corps in USA never pay taxes. This is all legal. What needs to be changed is the tax system, which will never happen. When you have a large family and are self employed it is extremely easy to qualify for medicaid, even if your sales are 1,000,000 a year.

Yoel Mechanic

(related to the 88 in the label aryan88)

8 is for the eighth letter of the alphabet.
So 88 stands for HH which stands for
Heil (S)hitler. Just in case you were all curious what the 88 means. Good to be aware of the "diverse" readership here too.

Jeff

Where you choose to miss the boat is despite all the warts on the Orthodox, no one else has a future.

Posted by: Dirty old man | June 13, 2012 at 07:45 PM

What kind of future? Most of us would rather assimilate than be like you.

You and the other frum trolls are whistling in the dark. If you really thought Shmarya was wrong, you'd simply ignore him. You aren't trying to convince us; you're attempting to convince yourselves. Exhibit A:

They either intermarry or don't have any kids.

This is, of course, bullshit.

SkepticalYid

Gentile doctors and lawyers are educated, but they often end up employed by the Chasid who brings the lawsuit, owns the labortory, nursing home, or medical center.

Posted by: fg | June 13, 2012 at 09:44 PM

Lawsuits cost the public a fortune. The labs , nursing homes and med centers are primarily funded by medicaid.

So in fact, you really proved that your community costs the public a disproportionate amount of money.

ah-pee-chorus

Dirty old man-

is that you archie?

JustTheFacts

Hasidem are shrewd business people who earn a nice living in the business world.

Posted by: fg | June 13, 2012 at 09:44 PM

Wow, and to think people actually say that they don't work.

Gregg Hill

The welfare reforms of the late 1990's under President Clinton established a 5-year lifetime cap on all welfare benefits. How are the Haredi avoiding this limit?

David

Gentile doctors and lawyers are educated, but they often end up employed by the Chasid who brings the lawsuit, owns the labortory, nursing home, or medical center.

Posted by: fg | June 13, 2012 at 09:44 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by that one. Are you suggesting that the chassids bring lawsuits as a business enterprize?

Dirty old man

With all this here talk of pie slices, I am convinced that Shmarmy blogs while listening to the soundtrack of The Jeffersons in the background.

Moving' on up ...

Dirty old man

And the Hasidim keep Shmarmy enslaved to his computer. Imagine what kind of resources it would take to contain his frustration if he got off his beanbag perch and left his apt for the outside world.

fg


Most of the Chasidim are filthy rich. In Williamsburg, for example, an average family of 8 kids enjoy many luxeries.

1) They go the country ($10,000)
2) Tuition private school ($10,000)
3) have brand new leased cars
4) pays mortgage on an apartment.( housing developments are sold out before they are even build)
5) marrying of each child (60,000-70,000 each. A shtreimal alone is $4,000)

The point is, Hasidim work the system, but stealing wont enable you live this lifestyle. Hasidem are shrewd business people who earn a nice living in the business world.

Look at Ostreicher the one who sits in Bolivian jail. He has many children and even more grandchildren. He never went to business school, yet he ran a multi million dollar business.

Gentile doctors and lawyers are educated, but they often end up employed by the Chasid who brings the lawsuit, owns the labortory, nursing home, or medical center.

of course there are many who live in poverty, yet they provide the best they have for their children. Having an unlimited amount of children is not a picnic. It's a selfless act where you commit yourself to a life of hardship but everlasting joy.

Lastly, look at what the everage chasid saves the government.
No public school, low crime rate, no chasidem are in shelters, low usage of the library. I think we save the Gov. alot of money and it pretty much evens out with what we take.

Litvish

Posted by: aryan88

Please be more specific.

We do not deal well with generalities here you pathetic loser.

David

Posted by: aryan88 | June 13, 2012 at 07:48 PM

Crawl back under your rock, loser.

jancsibacsi

aryan88-is a brain damaged retard end of story.

Dirty old man

Now if the host and his Amen corner yell that Aryan88 is anti-Semitic scum, the irony will not be lost on anyone.

Dirty old man

Flawed analysis.

What you write is more a projection of your desired outcome. That's why you slip in all that subliminal advertising about leaving the religious fold. The vast numbers pining to get out is pure fantasy on your part.

Sure there is plenty of fraud just like there is in the White trash community, Black inner cities, and among the corrupt politicians of NY-NJ who milk non-profits dry.

Where you choose to miss the boat is despite all the warts on the Orthodox, no one else has a future. They either intermarry or don't have any kids.

And you've got to be kidding with your Fidler on the Roof analogy. The script comes from Shalom Aleichem and is mostly a sad story.

JustTheFacts

The bearded wonders are the fastest growing segments of the New York Jewish community.

The real question is why-> "the numbers of Jews who identity with the heretofore much larger non-Orthodox movements have declined precipitately."

David

But the Orthodox are also the source of the positive trends in the study. If the goal is Jewish continuity–as of course it should be–the Orthodox are leading the way.

How can the biologically and economically unsustainable growth of the Charedi cult be a positive thing? It is leading to the destuction of the Jewish people.

o No or little vocational education.

o No or little English literacy.

o Inadequate health and health care (dangerous MBP practices, low vaccination rates, unhealthy diet, no exercise, high rate of smoking).

o Poor socialization due to inadequate or no social mixing and also inappropriately large family sizes.

o Poverty due to excessive family size and no education.

o Reliance on welfare (unsustainable as numbers continue to increase - tax base will not be able to support it).

o Failure to be good citizens or obey laws of land.

o Generally dangerous behaviors due to fail to educate in common sense and individual responsibility or follow secular safety advice/instructions (e.g. failure to properly supervise children, poor driving skills).

*** I am sure I missed a lot.

The "Charedim" are a "modern" invention - no older than about 200 years.

Jews have traditionally been highly educated and hard and productive workers.

It is unprecedented in all of Jewish history that a large proportion of Jews fail to work, be educated or be productive members of society.

It is not the Jewish Way and it will destroy us all.

SkepticalYid

Posted by: JustTheFacts | June 13, 2012 at 06:47 PM

(Yawn) Once again- take away all those nasty liberal social services and you'll see these communities collapse.

jancsibacsi

Litvish-You describe them with such precision that its even closer then one atom in measurement,the truly f their way into power youre 100 per cent right,and laughting at the rest of us suckers.

No Light

JustTheFuckwit - the point just soared over your head.

Litvish

The bearded wonders are the fastest growing segments of the New York Jewish community.

They are fucking their way into power here just as they are in Israel.

If they didn't mooch off of the rest of us who actually work for a living, pay our fair share of taxes, report all of our income, do not take welfare, section 8 housing, food stamps, they wouldn't survive.

Because they know the system better than the Torah they pretend to love, they will continue to thrive even though this country is having a major economic downturn.

Many of them are leeches, parasites and criminals.

A woman I know who is frum, told me that she just had a new granddaughter. She added that if I wanted to give tsedakah her family could use it.

She has four kids. Each has a family of close to ten kids. Each of them needs to go to day schools, have a wedding, and, of course, a place to live. The boys must all go to Israel to learn. Then they must be supported in kollel. Then they must find good shidukhim so they can have more kids.

These creatures are fucking their way into power, living like kings on our cheshbon ( account) and laughing at the rest of us suckers.

And it will only get worse.

What I mention above is one of hundreds of thousands of examples. You do the math.

Steven W

I always find it amusing when non-Haredi extol the virtues of the Haredi whether it is Reform Jews donating to Chabad or the Podhoretz-types waxing eloquent in places like Commentary.

Do they think that the Haredi would read Commentary or let their daughters marry their sons?

"They" can be "authentic" Jews while "we" don't have to.

JustTheFacts

Of even greater import is that the rapid expansion of ultra-Orthodox and Hasidic Jewry are the sole reason for this population growth. By contrast, the numbers of Jews who identity with the heretofore much larger non-Orthodox movements have declined precipitately.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/06/12/beginning-of-the-end-for-liberal-jewry-jewish-population-greater-new-york-intermarriage/

rebitzman

Ohhhhhhh they are conservative.............not Conservative.

Got it.

jancsibacsi

Theese hassidim are being paid to think with their putzes by the counties.

Rocky

The survey excluded the counties of Rockland and Orange north of New York City. Even in 2000, Rockland had the highest percentage of Jews of any county in the US owing to the fast growing Hasidic communities in New Square and Monsey. In 2010, the population of KJ (virtually all Hasidic) at over 20,000 was larger than the entire estimated Jewish population of Orange County, NY in 2000 (15,000).

At what point does the welfare burden become too heavy to bare by the average non-Hasidic resident of counties like Rockland and Orange?

Rocky

Seymour: I suspect that tax evasion is rampant in the Haredi communities. Income tax, property tax (religious exemption abuses), even sales tax.

Although the NY Times article in 2011 dealt with poverty in KJ, the numbers for New Square look even worse but house prices in NS are high. See here:

http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-New-Square-New-York.html

and here:

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Square-New-York.html

How do you explain high house prices and very high poverty rates other than tax evasion? NS is not an old community where family homes might be passed down from father to son or daughter. Besides, there are too many children to make this work.

In Detroit, where reported poverty is actually lower than in New Square, house prices are much lower.

SR, a very good article.

jancsibacsi

I know someone personnaly whos income is greater then a 100 thousand and he doesnt lift a finger his wife works part time i am not kidding,gets all the benefits and more.

jancsibacsi

seymour--Lets face it they outsmarted the system its a no brainer,if someone cannot afford 2 children and keeps having children some of them a dozen, who is crazy here, its the system that does not monitor them more closely.

seymour

43% wow so with out government program they could not survive

I guess Torah needs help

seymour

Obviously many Hassidim do an honest day's work and receive no such illicit benefits. But it explains the circumstances you describe quite accurately.

Posted by: SkepticalYid | June 13, 2012 at 05:00 PM

very true even your last statement, however what bother me is that it is almost acceptable to do that and milk the system.

Their is no shame no repercussion and no rov ever speak up against it, but they needed an asifa against the Internet

another words to them eating a carvel ice cream is a bigger sin that scamming the system

that what pisses me off

SkepticalYid

It adds up quite well, Seymour. It's called working for cash under the table. In some circles that's known as criminal fraud. Obviously many Hassidim do an honest day's work and receive no such illicit benefits. But it explains the circumstances you describe quite accurately.

seymour

what is amazing with all the poverty, supposedly, the houses in KJ and skver cost a fortune.

and I need to find the study that Boro Park and other frum poverty stricken areas are the best customers for the hight end baby carriages

also i can go to people houses who are on welfare and so yet they will have beautiful silver menorah and other stuff that cost a small fortune

something is not added up

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