4 Neturei Karta Members Arrested For Vandalizing Yad Vashem

The arrests of the four adult members of the notorious anti-Zionist haredi sect were announced this morning.

 

4 Neturei Karta Members Confess To Vandalizing Yad Vashem
The arrests of the four adult members of the notorious anti-Zionist haredi sect were announced this morning.
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Early this morning, Israel Police announced the arrests of four adult haredi men from the notorious anti-Zionist Neturei Karta sect for painting antisemitic and anti-Zionist graffiti on Yad Vashem, Israel’s national Holocaust memorial and museum earlier this month. The men were arrested by the elite central unit of the Judea and Samaria district police.

Police say the men are from Jerusalem, Bnei Brak and Ashdod and admitted to committing the vandalism. They also admitted to committing other acts of vandalism of national monuments in the greater Jerusalem area.

Police found seditious material during a search of the suspects’ homes and computers, along with material meant to incite hatred and a quantity of PLO flags.

The men vandalized Yad Vashem with spray painted hate slogans and vandalized the Ammunition Hill war memorial on Yom HaZikaron, the day Israel commemorates its war dead.

One slogan spray painted on Yad Vashem read, “If Hitler hadn’t existed, the Zionists would have invented him.”

Another read, “Thanks Hitler for the wonderful Holocaust you organized for us! Only because of you we received a state.”

A third read, “Jews, wake up, the evil regime does not protect us, it only endangers us.”

"Israel is the secular Auschwitz of the Sephardic Jewry," read another.

One slogan was signed, “World Haredi Jewry.”

In total, ten slogans were spray painted in Yad Vashem’s Warsaw Ghetto Square and on the Deportees Memorial located next to a cattle car used by the Nazis to transport Jews to the gas chambers.

[Hat Tip: Seymour.]

Comments

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

Let's see what yaakov the BT wannabe says, when the news came out he immediately defended the haredim and denied it could be them.

[ah-pee-chorus]

i would like to see them jailed for 10 years each, then permanently expelled from israel. any rabbi found to have approved of their actions should get the same.

[Jeff]

Now Bassy, he didn't deny it; he was merely skeptical.

Meanwhile, let's see what kind of a slap on the wrist they get - and let's see how our frum trolls spin this one. My money is on, "They shouldn't have committed vandalism and they aren't taught this in our schools, but everything they said is absolutely correct! The Zionists are responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews! Just read [insert propaganda tract of choice] and see for yourself!"

[Jeff]

then permanently expelled from israel

Preferably into the Sea of Galilee.

[Jeanette Friedman]

They have computers? Really? You mean they don't even pay attention to their own rebbeim? Who are these chayas?

[Reb Chaim]

There is absolutely no hope for the NK. They are plainly and simply a bunch of brain-washed idiots who do not merit the privilege of living in Eretz Yisrael. Agreed that the perpetrators of this disgusting incident should be given stiff jail sentences to serve as a message for their compatriots that such conduct will not be tolerated.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Now they are going scream "Nazis" and "Antisemites" at he police for having the audacity to arrest them. Massive protests to follow.

[Expatriate Owl]

"Preferably into the Sea of Galilee."

No, no, no, Jeff! That's water pollution!

[ruthie]

omg

[ruthie]

i would welcome the opp. to slap these guys silly.
slap slap slap PUNCH oops slap slap slap PUNCH oops

[Dovid]

... painting antisemitic ...

That does it, they are not Jews. They may dress like some Jews dress but actions like this proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that these are not Jews at all. They are wolves dressed in sheep's clothing. Why they don't get up and go to their beloved Iran is beyond me.

[Barry]

Leon Festinger carried out the most famous experiment on the subject of cognitive dissonance showing that when offered insufficient rewards for carrying out some tasks, people will lie to themselves to justify that task using arguments which obviously are inadequate

He had volunteers do a dull, miserable task (such as adding up columns of numbers or stacking spools) for hours at a time. As they were about to leave, the volunteers were asked to tell the next volunteer that the task was actually fun, and were offered money to do this. Some were offered, say, a dollar. Others were offered a twenty. After they they had done the dirty deed, the experimenter came running after them, saying that he forgot to have them fill out a form. Embedded in the form were questions concerning how much they enjoyed the task. If they had lied to their fellow volunteer for a twenty, they said that the task was boring as hell. If they had done it for a buck, they actually said that the task wasn't so bad! In other words, there was insufficient reward to justify the lie. So they fixed the dissonance by lying to themselves about the task! If later challenged to admit that how could they possibly find a stacking spools for hours not to be boring, they would act defensively and argumentatively in denying the obvious. So a person is prepared to admit that he lied for $20 as that is seen as justifiable, but he is not prepared to admit that he lied for just $1 as that shows he is cheap. Instead he will kid himself and aggressively defend himself by claiming that he was actually telling the truth!

The Neturei Karta are a classic example of such cognitive dissonance. They lie to themselves regarding the inevitable consequences that the way of life they champion, that is boredom, poverty, misery and genocide. They also lie to themselves regarding 'Schar ve Onesh' that is that there is a reward for living such a miserable life as they do and that reward is God's protection.

The Holocaust which Yad VaShem commemorates shows that their medieval primitiveness does not protect innocent Jews, but does the opposite. Their cognitive dissonance makes them act defensively and aggressively against this obvious truth by public acts of desecration and protest and the public making of ludicrous claims to create a Zionist aveirah to 'justify' the onesh.

Something similar occurs with 9/11 truthers.

Once you understand that the Neturei Karta's actions relate to trauma and cognitive dissonance and are not truly 'rational and political', it is very hard to get angry at them. This cognitive dissonance is another cross they must bear, together with the misery, poverty, boredom, sexual frustration etc, that is their lot. All one can be grateful is that because of your or your ancestors actions in escaping from that lifestyle, you are free from the harmful mental consequences that afflict the Neturei Karta.

[Jeff]

They also lie to themselves regarding 'Schar ve Onesh' that is that there is a reward for living such a miserable life as they do and that reward is God's protection.

Not to mention the promise of Gan Eden and the threat of gehinnom.

Once you understand that the Neturei Karta's actions relate to trauma and cognitive dissonance and are not truly 'rational and political', it is very hard to get angry at them. This cognitive dissonance is another cross they must bear, together with the misery, poverty, boredom, sexual frustration etc, that is their lot.

Yeah, I've long since gotten past that point, Barry. I find it impossible to have compassion for them now, as I find it impossible to have compassion for an evangelical who salivates at the thought of our impending eternal damnation.

And I don't know that I buy the business about the misery of their lives, anyway. They think they're perfectly content. Their poor wives, on the other hand...

[Sarek]

If I were a neo-Nazi or Jihadist, I'd feel free to take a long vacation, knowing that I could let the Jews' own crazies handle things for me.

[seymour]

what is truly amazing we will not hear any words on condemnation against this guys from the frum leaders and say yes they deserve to be jailed

will we see a pidyam shumium for them a cry nebech they have children

[Jeff]

"Preferably into the Sea of Galilee."

No, no, no, Jeff! That's water pollution!

Posted by: Expatriate Owl | June 26, 2012 at 09:46 AM

The Negev, then. I don't think the vultures are all that picky.

[Yochanan Lavie]

It would give the vultures food poisoning. Send them to Iran; they go there anyway to kiss Afterdinnerjob's tuchus.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

You people are so dishonest. You know Neturei Karta creeps are not accepted by any segment of Charedim but you pretend they are something close to Charedi mainstream. They were even excommunicated by a beis din in England and have been banned from shopping at Charedi stores in Monsey. Did Shmarya ever report on the 500 strong Charedi protest outside a Boro Park hotel when it was learned that an NK leader was staying there? Sorry for interrupting your orgy of anti-religious blind hatred

[Alter Kocker]

It is absurd that Jews of any stripe would stoop to desecrate the memory of the 6 million. If NK is to take ownership of these heinous acts then we are left with a conundrum. Are these people Jews? Should we not excise them from our midst? Should they all be excommunicated? Should their beliefs be made a mockery? Should their leaders be jailed? There was an NK rally in Ottawa a month ago. You could tell the Jewish people driving by, those were the ones driving with one finger out the window (myself included):)

[Jeff]

You know Neturei Karta creeps are not accepted by any segment of Charedim but you pretend they are something close to Charedi mainstream.

They are the product of generations of Haredi anti-Zionism. They are the spiritual heirs of Reb Yoilish & Co.

You don't get to do this; you don't get to create this mess, then disavow any and all responsibility for it. It's bad enough that you expect the secular Israelis to clean it up.

[ah-pee-chorus]

Barry -

i think your assessment is valid but only insofar as being explanatory and not exculpatory. all human behavior and choices can be explained and perhaps predicted based on genetic and environmental inputs.but to allow an explanation to excuse evil behavior is something we shouldnt allow ourselves to do. all evil and genocide could theoretically be explained and minimized similarly.
i know you werent doing this but i wanted to make the distinction clear.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

It's true that Satmar bears some responsibility for NK but even Satmar has publicly denounced them in the last decade.

And Satmar itself is an extreme by Charedi standards that stands alone

Any other excuses to get back to your anti-orthodox orgy?

[ah-pee-chorus]

You don't get to do this; you don't get to create this mess, then disavow any and all responsibility for it. It's bad enough that you expect the secular Israelis to clean it up.

Posted by: Jeff |

right. and when the insane level of modesty requirements on women leads to the cone-headed burqa wearing jew-liban cult, nobody should be surprised. each is an expected outcome of the accepted beliefs in the ungodly dangers of zionism and womens sexuality which are knocked into their heads by their rebbeim.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Nice dishonest try, AyePeePee

You know darn well that the Taliban burqa women are a sect of mentally ill BTs who who were told by rabbis & a beis din to cease & desist

But you wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of your drive to pull more believers off the path, would you?

Why isnt there any mention of the lying anti-Torah TROLLS that troll this page, TROLL?

[ah-pee-chorus]

Sheketz Aroiss -

we all know NK isnt mainstream. but antizionism is a position held by many others, including agudah not long ago. and one can argue that satmar isnt either in order to excuse their recent communal support for molesters. but the numbers say otherwise. and when the gerrorists burn homes with kids inside you can say they arent mainstream. and when a skverer community supports a guy who nearly killed an entire sleeping family you can dismiss them as being marginal. same for the tax defrauding spinka rebbe, the scamming boro park frummies, the meshichist chabad whackos,the litvish yeshiva crowd which scams the israeli system by lying about the number of students,the beit shemesh animals who attack little girls, and on and on . none of these are "mainstream" but they have one thing in common; the horrible brain virus known as charedism.

[Deremes]

""then permanently expelled from israel

Preferably into the Sea of Galilee.

Posted by: Jeff | June 26, 2012 at 09:07 AM""

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/06/haredi-woman-gives-birth-at-home-hids-baby-under-dress-234.html

"You have nothing of any value to say, on this or on any other subject, and nothing to contribute to society. I'd tell you to kill yourself before you reproduce, but it's probably already too late.

Eh, kill yourself anyway. You'll still be doing civilization a favor.

Posted by: Jeff | June 26, 2012 at 09:47 AM"

Hes on a killing spree like usual.Hopefully he wont act on it.

[danny]

Sheketz Aroiss... why don't you take your own advice and get the fuck out of here?

What are you doing on the internet anyway?

[ah-pee-chorus]

Sheketz Aroiss -

You know darn well that the Taliban burqa women are a sect of mentally ill BTs who who were told by rabbis & a beis din to cease & desist

i see you have trouble with reading. of course i know they were told to stop and never implied otherwise. as far as your claim theyre mentally ill, provide evidence. theyre likely no more ill than all deluded fundies. the point is that their burqas are an EXPECTED RESULT of the ACCEPTED opinions of mainstream ketonim WRT tznius.
if covering 93% of the body is great, then 96% is even better. in fact the rabbis should be applauding these well meaning ladies.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

APC, admit it that the Taliban women don't have a single rabbi backing them no matter how out of the mainstream.

All the troll tactics that are attributed to Charedim on the blog are done by you without so much as a whimper of protest by the Gong squad. You are the proverbial Red Herring brigade when it comes to slandering the Torah & it's followers. Yes there are plenty of bad people hiding behind rabbinical garb but your post about the burqas shows your true agenda is to undermine any honest adherents to religion as well

[ah-pee-chorus]

Why isnt there any mention of the lying anti-Torah TROLLS that troll this page, TROLL?

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss

can you show examples please? you may have to briefly stop frothing at the mouth.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Danny, glad to be of service in motivating you as a backer of the Marxist "Fairness" doctrine

Alas, free speech has always been a rallying cry for Liberals except when someone disagrees with them

[jancsibacsi]

ALL THEIR TOIREH LEARNING DOES IS CREATE ALL THEESE MISFITS WHO CANT ADJUST TO LIFE SINCE THEY WERE RAISED IN SUCH SHELTERTED AND BRAINWASHED YESHIVAS ALL THEY CAN CREATE BESIDES ANARCHY IS HOT AIR, NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS WORLD ONLY BICKERING AND ANARCHY.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Can you read APC? I haven't seen Yochanan or anyone else manning troll battle stations call you out as a troll. I believe I am the first

[ah-pee-chorus]

when it comes to slandering the Torah & it's followers

slander- (definition) a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report:

since this isnt a beis medrash i require actual evidence. show me just one example by link where i posted something false about the torah. if you cant, then run along like a good little charedi apologist troll.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Tell us about it Janci! Martin Grossman must've been real normal BEFORE he found religion in prison, eh?

And Bernie Madoff's secular upbringing really set him straight, haha!

[ah-pee-chorus]

Sheketz Aroiss -

i want examples of lies. others dont call me out as a troll because whether they agree or not, they know i will debate with facts,reason and logic and will defend my statements.
you said i lied. back it up with proof.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

For starters you imparted that the Torah & rabbis are responsible for the Taliban women

It's easy to dish out your baloney until someone calls you on it, nisht?

[Jeff]

And Satmar itself is an extreme by Charedi standards that stands alone

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 26, 2012 at 11:38 AM

In terms of extremism, I don't think Satmar is any worse than Ger or Bobov (or Belz, from what I understand). Skver appears to be a fascist state on the level of North Korea. It's widespread.

And I agree with APC; the burqua cult - which I acknowledge has been denounced by Haredi leaders - is the predictable outcome of the obsessive, constant emphasis your leaders place upon tznius. In fact, their denouncement of it is an example of the phenomenon I'm talking about; they don't seem to understand that they caused it. If you talk incessantly about the inherent impurity of a woman's body, of course she's going to internalize it, and eventually, unbalanced women are going to take it to this sort of extreme. We've also seen some articles recently about the prevalence of eating disorders in the Haredi world.

[ah-pee-chorus]

For starters you imparted that the Torah & rabbis are responsible for the Taliban women

its an obvious and expected outcome of mainstream charedi thought. have you not noticed the trajectory ? tznius in the last 50 years has been heading in one direction. the burqa women just beat the rabbis to it. their kedusha will probably be recognized and their dress emulated in less than 50 years. dont you see this?

[Jeff]

Why isnt there any mention of the lying anti-Torah TROLLS that troll this page, TROLL?

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss

I just saw this. A troll is someone who incites against the general tenor of a blog. If APC or I were saying these things on one of your blogs, then we'd be trolls.

I think the word you're looking for is "sycophant".

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss-I say mit daynem toireh kenst ois vishen dayn tohes you understand me you dont create nothing but controversy unril some kills an innocent person,on the other hand scientists are my ideal humans most if not all create something that helps humanity,toireh is a closed loop doesnt get us nowhere in fact we are going backwards with so much toireh.

[Jeff]

Hes on a killing spree like usual.Hopefully he wont act on it.

Posted by: Deremes | June 26, 2012 at 12:03 PM

Don't be silly. I'm not threatening to kill him. I'm saying he should do it.

I keep hearing about the superior acuity of the yeshiva-trained mind. I have yet to see an example of it.

[Yochanan Lavie]

No, SA. A regular commenter is not a troll. A troll is someone who parachutes in here, and starts attacking the character of other people, including our host, and tries to divert attention from the issues at hand by using inaccurate "facts" and twisted "logic." A troll brings nothing new to the conversation; s/he wants to end the conversation. Deremes, whom I disagree with almost all the time, is not a troll. He comes here regularly and isn't always on attack mode. You, SA, are a typical troll. The only original thing you've done is try to apply the label to the regulars here. But as Gertrude Stein would say (and no, I don't admire her): "A troll, is a troll, is a troll."

BTW: Shmarya is pretty liberal in whom he allows to post here. On frum websites, that's not the case at all. That doesn't mean we have to stay sha-shtill with someone who says outrageous things.

[blueberry muffins]

Yochanan, how about a troll parody...

[Yochanan Lavie]

Deremes: Jeff would never actually harm anyone, and you know it. It's just rhetoric, like telling someone to "drop dead."

Chareidim throw stones all the time, on the other hand. Not to mention the pulsa d'nura and their own violent rhetoric. (Such as defacing Yad Vashem, the original topic of this thread).

Maybe you are a troll, after all.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Blueberry: trolls are self-parodying already.

[Jeff]

Not to mention the pulsa d'nura and their own violent rhetoric.

Oh, I forgot about the pulsa d'nura. Didn't they use their black magic a few years back to curse the PM when he gave away some land?

(Meanwhile, where do you go to learn that? ;-) )

[Deremes]

YL-Jeff if he would or wouldn't harm we both don't know from his writings it seems that he would.
I agree that defacing YV was despicable but for different reasons.

[dh]

YL, I know it isn't your genre, but I keep hoping for you to do something with "People". Mohels, mohels who need ______ .... or some such thing.

[jancsibacsi]

Deremes -Talking about harming others just look into the mirror youre own buddies tazadikim who are destroying young innocent children who can be more evil then that you shouldnt talk about jeff harming others youre kind is the ultimate predator .

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

I remember them rejoicing during the second intifada every time a bus blew up

[No Light]

Come on then Deremes, tell us why the desecration was wrong.

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Jeff, I will grant that some other groups like Skver who come from the same backward region as Satmar are similar to them. You can't compare the others especially Belz that is more moderate on working for a living & military service

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Ah ha! So the rabbis are at fault for when mentally unstable women go too far internalizing tznius?

What a bunch of jokers you are! Let's hear you blame Hollywood & Ms Universe models for all the women who almost kill themselves through anorexia

This blog was rumored to attract the smartest atheists but defeating your lame arguments is a cakewalk

[Sheketz Aroiss]

Let's get this straight. You are attacking Charedi commenters because you need to highlight the dictionary definition of troll. If so, you are not whatsoever tolerant of anyone expressing opinions you don't like.

Sorry fellas, you can't have it both ways so stop pretending to be tolerant of ideological opposites while you pile on every single Charedi who happens by

[ah-pee-chorus]

Let's hear you blame Hollywood & Ms Universe models for all the women who almost kill themselves through anorexia

unbelievable. hollywood caters to what its customers want. it is a business like all others. so if thin actresses garner more box office , then that will be what producers look for. same for ms. universe. if all contestants were 100 lbs. overweight viewership would plummet. does this lead to some eating disorders? yes, societal attitudes which favor thinness definitely do. these same societal preferences are what causes hollywoods attitude. but regardless, no one in hollywood is claiming a divine preference. evolution would favor a symmetrical figure in good shape with wider child bearing hips.
so since i acknowledge a connection between society's current definition of beauty as being thin, and anorexia and bulimia, i guess you agree that the ever increasing ketonims tznius requirements are in fact somewhat causative of the burqa women.

[ah-pee-chorus]

defeating your lame arguments is a cakewalk

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss

great!!! let us know when you do so.

[SkepticalYid]

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 26, 2012 at 03:15 PM

Well, you're right about one thing- the media is partly responsible for anorexia.
Similarly though, a community that encourages an ever increasing shift to the right can promote bizarre extremist behaviors in those who are less emotionally balanced.

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss -Ver geharget di shaykatz.

[western jew]

Naturei Karta deserve a special day in court, each and every one of them.

[Jeff]

Jeff, I will grant that some other groups like Skver who come from the same backward region as Satmar are similar to them. You can't compare the others especially Belz that is more moderate on working for a living & military service

Posted by: Sheketz Aroiss | June 26, 2012 at 03:11 PM

I'll take your word for it about Belz. The Gerrers are nuts, especially about tznius.

[Jeff]

Let's hear you blame Hollywood & Ms Universe models for all the women who almost kill themselves through anorexia

I blame the culture and Madison Avenue for promoting unhealthy and unrealistic body images. I'm not a one-way guy with this stuff.

But you know what, SA? The ad guys on Madison Ave aren't claiming the moral and spiritual high road. They admit to being whores.

[Jeff]

And Hollywood, of course, as APC said.

[Jeff]

Oh - and if you don't want to watch their movies, they don't stand by the side of the road and lob stones at you as you drive by. Neither will they spit upon your wife for not dressing in the fashions they promote, nor will they scream "Curveh!" at your daughter if she declines to play their video games.

[jancsibacsi]

Sheketz Aroiss -youre kind is mentally disturbed to say the least youre whole hassidishe world consists of mentally warped psychos they need massive help the sooner the better.

[Yochanan Lavie]

DH: I've done things with other genres in the past, such as Sinatra, R&B, and other things.

And SA: on a frum blog we couldn't have this conversation at all, because they censor comments. Here, we let you opine but disagree with you. Tolerance does not equal agreement. If you say something people don't like, they'll let you know. Intolerance would be denying your right to say it in the first place.

[Mike]

@ Sheketz Aroiss:

I can't undertand why you would blame the women for internalizing tzniut to such an extreme level- women in these communities are denied access to any information whatsoever and are told their entire lives by the rabbis that their only salvation is by serving one's husband and keeping tzniut (to an extreme degree). The rabbis scare women so much about the "horrors" of mixed dancing or whatever that they feel the need to take it so seriously.

[Litvish]

NK have little support in the frume velt outside of Satmar and similar groups.

I knew several of them personally when I learned in J-m in the late 60s, early 70s. Moshe Hirsch was the guy who brought me to Israel. To his credit he told me that I was forbidden to have anything to do with NK; that my job was to sit and learn which I did. As some of you know, he was head of NK for some time and the son in law of the founder of the movement, Rov Katzenelbogn who created NK in 1938, just before the war. I was introduced to Rov Katzenelbogn the first day I arrived in J-m in 1969. I am still on their mailing list for their journal, HaKhoma.

Over the years they have become more and more extreme in their actions. At the beginning they were actually a lot less wild, mainly confining themselves to protests against Zionism.

I no longer have any contact with the people I knew in NK. All of them have passed on.

[Bob Guthrie]

Posted by: Deremes
"Hes on a killing spree like usual.Hopefully he wont act on it."

Deremes, just be stupid, don't confirm it.

[Jeff]

As some of you know, he was head of NK for some time and the son in law of the founder of the movement

I thought that was Blau.

[zionist goy]

Shame on you Nk. Shame on you. Little better than German capos! Go to Yemen, replenish the dwindling number of jews there. You are obviously not happy in Israel.

[Litvish]

Jeff:

Here is a sentence from the obituary for Rabbi Hirsch, NY Times, 5 May 2010:

Rabbi Hirsch was the son-in-law of Rabbi Aharon Katzenelbogen, founder of the anti-Zionist sect Neturei Karta.

[Jeff]

Then who was Amram Blau?