New Color English Language Steinsaltz Talmud Launched

The English language Steinsaltz Talmud reemerges, this time published by Koren Publishers and completely redesigned.

Here's a sample page (the volumes also have traditional Vina Shas pages, as well):

Here are four pages as a PDF file:

Download Four regular Steinsaltz Talmud Koren pages color

There's also a smaller Daf Yomi size in black and white. Consecutive volumes of both editions will be available for the Daf Yomi schedule.

The complete set will number 41 volumes.

Koren will also be releasing a Talmud App in July.

You can order volumes here.

 

Comments

[Lo K'darkah]

Looks amazing. Is there a paperback?

[Yochanan Lavie]

I have always like the Steinsaltz Talmud. Whatever shortcomings he may have, he is a great scholar and I love how he integrates philology, history, and science into his commentary.

[Worf]

When's it going to be available for the Kindle?

[Garnel Ironheart]

The Rav has addressed many of the problems that sunk the earlier Random House Version it looks amazing but does Artscroll have too much of a lock on the market?

[Zalman Alpert]

With money tight these days why the need to repeat a project that has already been done . Art Scroll's talmud has been acclaimed and has changed the way many epoepl viewed the study of the talmud. So a few people may benifit by a new design does it warrant the expenditure of millions of dollars jsut as an ego trip for rabbi Steinsaltz.
No one has ever accused Art Scroll of inserting its Hashkofa in this work and its used by alls egments of world jewry why waste badly needed funds for this repetitive project.

[Friar Yid]

Looks very pretty. Oh, for more spending money, bookshelf space and time to read!

[R. Wisler]

Why can't someone just translate the entire daf (Rashi, Tosfos, Rishonim etc) verbatim? Then the English language reader could get a true picture of Talmud learning without the prejudices and "slants" that modern commentaries have.

That would be an interesting purchase. Problem with ArtScroll is that they interject too much of their Litvak Hareidi crap into their commentary.

[Yochanan Lavie]

"No one has ever accused Art Scroll of inserting its Hashkofa in this work and its used by alls egments of world jewry why waste badly needed funds for this repetitive project."

Wrong. Its siddur enshrines all the chareidi chumrot, its commentaries are fundamentalist (not all sages are really fundies) and its so-called biographies are hagiographies.

Steinsaltz, unlike fartscroll, knows Greek, Latin, history, and some science. He can contextualize the Talmud much better than most.

[Lo K'darkah]

Zalman Alpert,
I have rarely encountered any daf in the artscroll talmud that does not appear to misrepresent pshat at least once or twice on the page. That's not to say it isn't an impressive project, and maybe the misunderstandings are mine, but it certainly doesn't render other translations less relevant or useful.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Lo K'darkah: Fartscroll's "translation"of Shir HaShirim ignores pshat altogether. One can argue that the allegorical meaning is paramount, but don't call it a translation, then.

[Andrew Greene]

I had a chance to borrow a copy a couple of weeks ago, and posted a review in my blog: http://530nm330hz.livejournal.com/437268.html

In short, they've done a great job.

There is a Daf Yomi edition which costs 20% less, is black-and-white instead of color and slightly smaller (but still, in my opinion, too large and heavy for casual carrying around.)

[Hal]

R. Wisler

see tosfos.com

[chussid]

I think the translation is markedly inferior to artscroll is several respects. Most notably, the footnotes may reflect a patina of archeological or scholarly knowledge. But they do not reflect the literary reception history of the bavli. That, in less technical terms, means rishonim and achronim. The bavli would be a book only for scholars if it hadn't been canonized and interpreted by subsequent people. Especially important are the spanish rishonim.
Second, the emphasis on Rambam and Shu"A makes TSBP seamless. This is just as polemical as anything Artscroll does. Rambam and Shu"a are constructed codes, not just renditions of bavli. If you want to do a halacha centric bavli, fine, but show me the guts of the halacha, like where rambam uses a beha"g or yerushalmi over bavli. Don't just assume rambam and mechaber are in a continuum with bavli and say you're less dogmatic than artscroll, because artscroll thinks r chaim is in continuum with the bavli too.
In certain ways this is more elegant and spare than artscroll, but its just as revisionist. I would need to see the ebb and flow of the language more to see how it compares to the often awkward prose of artscroll. But it seems like in both cases the somewhat allusive and fragmentary nature of the bavli's language is lost.
I would say this translation is probably unnecessary and definitely too late to compete with Artscroll. Its certainly not a great use of scarce communal resources. And certainly not a critical or scholarly edition in any way whatsoever. Its more a way for MOs to differentiate themselves and feel superior while sharing the ignorance of the Haredi cousins. If you really want to be superior, skip the pretend scholarship, save 5k and buy a copy of a book by Chris Hayes or Daniel Boyarin for 20 bucks.

[Garnel Ironheart]

> Why can't someone just translate the entire daf (Rashi, Tosfos, Rishonim etc) verbatim?

Hebrew is a very terse language in which a few words can say a lot. An exact translation would mean really, really, really small print.

[JustThinking]

Zalman Alpert:
If you could explain to me why Artscroll felt a great need to redo the Ramban on the Torah and the Midrash RAbba for example, when we already have great trans. for these, I'll explain this to you.
In my experience, Gentiles can not use Artscroll, it is too complicated for someone not familiar with Jewish concepts and the text is not continuous

[Yoel Mechanic]

The Artscroll Schottenstein edition was a giant step in the right direction; and this new Steinsaltz Talmud looks good too. I cannot judge the scholarly issues, those are very difficult and nuanced issues; but all this is a step in the right direction because it is democratizing the knowledge (something which I am in favor of for all forms of knowledge).

[maven]

Zalman, Steinsaltz was doing this first, and the litvaks kneecapped him by saying he was an apikorus so that they could sell the artscroll over his edition.
And it is another one of those new negative innovations of our age, unprecedented in Jewish history, that ArtScroll named their translation after a money donor over the scholars who worked on it.

[Yoel Mechanic]

I don't believe that academics like Christine Hayes, or Daniel Boyarin will cut it when it comes to the idea of democratizing knowledge. In general, academia is either very specialized or technical, or dealing with issues that are simply not relevant to someone who might actually be reading literature because they want to connect to the content. The flip side, of course, is that literature outside of academia can suffer from defects related to the politics of the community the literature is intended for (read: big agenda, but I think these defects have been *highly* exaggerated). Therefore, I think that things like Artscroll and Steinsaltz, for the actual chasid, is welcome.

[Litvish]

Chussid

Does Shu'a = shulkhan arukh?

If not, what does it stand for?
=====

Everyone:

I have difficulty learning beyond tosfos,rashi and gemoro on my own. Is there any learning aid that anyone can recommend?

I am not interested in history or literature. I just want to sit and learn gemoro as it is traditionally learned in a decent yeshivo.

Has anyone heard of the derekh of learning of R. Shimeon Green ( Bircas Ha Torah, J-m) ?

If so, what is your opinion on this derekh?

[Victor]

Shmarya, I am very supprised to see a post on this blog that is not in some way bashing haredim. why dont you just write on top of the post that its a advertisement as Im sure it is.

[Shmarya]

why dont you just write on top of the post that its a advertisement as Im sure it is.

Posted by: Victor | May 22, 2012 at 04:05 PM

Because it isn't an advertisement, that's why.

Now toddle off.

[Victor]

Shmarya you are full of shit. The only reason why you posted it is beacuse it was published by Koren publishers which advertized on this blog in the past.

"Now toddle off" I have to say that is a very mature thing for a grown man to say

[Shmarya]

Shmarya you are full of shit. The only reason why you posted it is beacuse it was published by Koren publishers which advertized on this blog in the past.

"Now toddle off" I have to say that is a very mature thing for a grown man to say

Posted by: Victor | May 22, 2012 at 05:39 PM

I see the haredi moonbat patrol is out in force today.

Do process, little man: a new edition of the Talmud comes around once every few decades or so, at most.

It's an important event.

Now toddle off.

And yes, little man, asking you to toddle off is both skill and mental age appropriate for you.

[R. Wisler]

Gamal,
Thanks for your comment on my question.

I can do literal, simple, written English translations of Rashi and Tosfos and do them quite economically in terms of the English. They are not difficult (unless you believe the myth put forward by the yeshivish crowd). There's nothing particularly profound in Rashi, Tosfos, or the various insundry rishonim.

My question above was asking why no publisher has done this since a literal translation of Rashi/Tosfos would demystify these and expose the straightforwardness and ordinariness of the Talmud.

[Nachum]

"No one has ever accused Art Scroll of inserting its Hashkofa"

Zalman, one good example is how Artsroll "elucidates" the Three Oaths. The most extreme of haredi positions, no less.

R. Wisler, what makes you think that Rashi, Tosfot, and the Rishonim don't have "slants" or "prejudices"? Did you know that according to many, Tosfor doesn't even belong on the daf, and its placement was a negative for learning? (Not that it isn't important, but everything has a place. The placement and choice and selection of Tosfot is the work of Daniel Bomberg and his editors. Look him up.) Rashi is important, of course, but terse enough that he can be used for translation. If you want a simple literal translation, you can use Soncino, free on the internet. A good place to look up words and yet still do work yourself.

[Nachum]

"the straightforwardness and ordinariness of the Talmud."

You're assuming that is the case.

[DS]

R. Wisler,

Please, we need to get in touch.

I have long dreamed of having Rashi, Tosafot, and Rishonim and Achronim in English.

Yosef Da'as and Sefer Mesivta in English might be a good step in that direction.

But I fully agree with you, and would like to discuss perhaps bringing such an idea to fruition.

[Mike]

Looks very nice... maybe I might consider getting it in the future.

[Yoel Mechanic]

it is another one of those new negative innovations of our age, unprecedented in Jewish history, that ArtScroll named their translation after a money donor over the scholars who worked on it.

Posted by: maven | May 22, 2012 at 01:49 PM
==========================================

Interesting point. It could be repaired however by having the donor also endow a chair at a Yeshiva for those scholar(s). The word Professor is not in vogue however, so we cannot name Professorships after a donor, but we simply need come up with another title.

[Victor]

Shmarya. By your reply back to me you are showing everyone that you are a immature imbecile. The point of my original comment was that you youur post bash haredim and this post did not seem like it did anytghing of the sort.

Now go to to hell!

[Fleishike Kishke]

Victor, you Yukel, this news is appropriate for this website because the idiot Haredi world once BANNED Steinzaltz's monumental work. It is with great joy that I tell you "toddle off."

[Victor]

@Fleishike Kiske. C,mon dude get original think of something else then "toddle off" however I am sure you made your idol Shmarya proud.

[Fleishike Kishke]

Dude, I don't care if you stick around. I have no animosity towards you. It's just that the phrase seems to have gotten under your skin. And that makes it fun to say. So toddle off.

[jAY]

total fail. artscroll: 1,000. koren: 0

[Sheryl Abbey]

Best way to give a fair critique of this new work: order a copy and see for yourselves: http://www.korenpub.com/EN/index.php
We believe the Jewish world deserves this new English edition, which is traditional yet non-ideological, offers clear, concise English and broad, deep historical and scientific background, embraces contemporary scholarship and technology, and helps students at every level to be active participants in the dynamic process of Talmud study.

[jojoleb]

Any way you cut it Steinsaltz is simply a genius. For the record, he started his translation of the Talmud into modern Hebrew 1965 and finished in 2010. I am certain he had help in research from some of his students, but this is essentially a single author book.

Between 1989 and 1999 Random House published some of these volumes in translation. I have only read the sample pages from the new, Koren translation, but the Random House edition is excellent.

Artscroll's first volume of their edition was published in 1990 and was finished in 2004, with a team of scholars under the general editorship of R' Yisroel Simcha Schorr and R' Chiam Malinowitz.

Both are monumental works. Both have their biases. Any translation will.

In reading them, I much prefer the Steinsaltz translation to the Artscroll. It is clearer and more comprehensible on first reading. Artscroll has the advantage of linearly translating, whereas the Steinsaltz edition translates in blocks. This is true for the Random House edition and for the sample pages of the Koren edition.

Every translation of the Talmud is going to be less than perfect and there will always be critics who shoot it down. Artscroll has always had a very strong interpretive bent and keeps things very politically correct for right wing circles. (See their nearly humorous, allegorical translation of Shir Hashirim.) That said, their translation is still monumental and an incredible work of scholarship.

As to Steinsaltz, there is a reason why Yeshiva Bochers often turn to him in time of need. Regardless of the 'change in format' the Hebrew translation is perfectly readable and comprehensible on the first go round. Everything is brought to light and it is the closest thing to reading Gemara like it was a novel. The Steinsaltz has side bars that bring you to the halacha and gives mini-biographies on those positing an argument in the Gemara. This is important as the Gemara is a compilation of arguments that happened over the centuries. The people 'discussing' the issues were seldom in the same room or living in the same time period. This is important to know.

A single authored translation always shows the biases of the author. However, the advantage is that the character of the translation is the same start to finish and you can more easily discern the bias. The multi-authored version, however good, is more preprocessed and far more vanilla, slanting the translation to the biases of the many authors and finally to the biases of the editors.

I prefer the single author approach, but that is my own preference. Both books are great tools to help you start learning, but both have severe limitations. You just have to own up to this and do some searching on your own.

There are other translations out there. Soncino has a translation by Jay Neusner. There is the Soncino translation from the middle of the last century that you can read on line or download to your tablet or smart phone for about 99 cents. The old Soncino translation is a straight translation of the text and is at times incomprehensible, but it is as straightforward a translation as you are likely to get. There is the El Am Talmud, published by JTS, edited by R' Dr. Arnost Zvi Ehrman. They only finished Brachot and parts of Baba Metzia and Kiddushin, but what I have seen is pretty incredible. I imagine that the project was scuttled when the JTS Talmud faculty of yore jumped ship in 1983, with the ordination of women rabbis.

As a fun addendum to this, JTS now uses the Artscroll edition as a learning tool for their students. This may ruffle some feathers at Artscroll central, but this is the price you pay for translation. On the positive side, I have yet to see bands of Hareidi, JTS graduates throw stones at Modern Orthodox Columbia students as they pass by on Broadway. I think we over estimate the subterfuge of Artscroll edition...

Artscroll was not the first and is hardly the 'only game in town.' There is plenty of room for other translations. I believe that the Steinsaltz is one of the best.

Other options, of course, include various Daf Yomi shiurs. You can pick from a variety of Rabbanim in free or paid audio and video formats on the web. There are a number of electronic formats, the most prominent is the Master Daf series (Wolfson Talmud by R' Avrohom Kosman). And if you really crave electronic editions, both the Artscroll and Koren Steinsaltz are coming to an iPad near you.

Read broadly. Read critically. Learn how to translate for yourself, if you can. All of these resources will give you a leg up on Talmud study, but they ALL have their biases.