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May 01, 2012


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Robert J. Barron, Attorney-at-Law


My sympathies in regards to your nephew; the same thing happened to my three cousins (on my mother's side)...after my grandfather (he was MC- Modern Conservative) his daughter, my Aunt, bought into, and got her daughters (my cousins) to buy into, the whole Hasidism thing...and their lives have been nothing but one disaster after another.

My cousins were/are all women, no secular education for them (except one, who later became Hasidic), and...it's just heartbreaking for me to think about. I've told my Aunt time and time again ..."This is not what your father wanted for his descendants"...and she just shrugs. Frankly, even though she is my grandfather's daughter, I hope she burns in hell for having bequeathed her children nothing but a lifetime of poverty and struggling. And the thing is, she sees with her own eyes that they are poor and struggling...and while she helps them financially, she'll do nothing to make them independent. Well, if they think they can turn to me for help after she's gone.....and stay in that lifestyle? Like hell. (Now, where did I put that $200.00 bottle of champagne? LOL LOL LOL)

On another note....why don't you give me a call on my Batphone, and tell me about your mother's situation. I don't practice in your neck of the woods, and I doubt I practice in the area your mother needs help, but I might know someone who might know someone....my number is: 719-240-2631.


since i'm not an evangelical, i didn't get tweaked by that last comment, but would suggest that you be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: Zionist Goy | May 02, 2012 at 08:46 PM

Not all of us buy into the propaganda that evangelical support is necessary for Israel's continuity (or even beneficial to it).

Also, evangelicals are as fickle as Haredim (and as prone to herd mentality). All it would take would be for a few of their leaders to get pissed off at Israel or the Jews about something and start fulminating against them - the fundies would abandon them as quickly as you could say "Armageddon".

Zionist Goy

since i'm not an evangelical, i didn't get tweaked by that last comment, but would suggest that you be careful what you wish for.


Charedim are in Israel only because of welfare.

Yochanan Lavie

Jeff: Chareidim even fight bitterly amongst themselves, let alone what they say about the non-religious and even baalei teshuvah behind their backs.


Yes, I've said so many times, myself. It's a very serious problem, Yochanan. The Orthodox of all stripes fail to realize that fostering this fiction of a romanticized Haredi past - although I'm sure many of them believe it as well - has contributed to the imminent collapse of their way of life.

Well, it is what it is. Screw them. I'd feel more compassion for them if I didn't feel so personally wounded - and I'm not just talking about their abduction of my nephew. This is the reason I find a statement like the one made the other day by "Lubavitchers are Christians", that Haredim regard all Jews as members one large family, so ridiculous. The notion that Haredim really believe this is so utterly absurd that the mere mention of it is offensive. If you believe that, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to show you.

Now if we could just figure out a way to get them to take the evangelicals with them when they go...

Yochanan Lavie

Modern Orthodoxy is not only intimidated by the black hat bearded. MO suffers from the same "Fiddler on the Roof" nostalgia that infects many non-Orthodox, too.


Jeff; is this the kid who needs to return to college? (maybe now that he is married, he can, and will!)

He never went. He left his MO day school six years ago, at the beginning of his senior year, to enter a Chabad yeshiva (he did graduate, technically; he had enough credits to get a diploma - not that he cared). I've pleaded with him to go to YU (not my first choice, of course, but I'd accept it graciously at this point). He won't budge - the Rebbe forbade secular education, and that's all there is to it. This boy hasn't had an independent thought since the day he donned his first black hat.

His marriage signifies his intention to remain in that world. He's as much as told me he doesn't intend to give his children a secular education.

(The MO school didn't make much of an attempt to keep him, either. I've spoken to one of his teachers, a friend of the MO rabbi I often mention here; he told me that was where my nephew's "neshamah" was. It was pure bullshit; it was so ridiculous I doubt even he really believed it. This is the school founded by Rav Soloveitchik, yet in recent years they've lost three boys to Chabad. As I keep saying, the Modern Orthodox have spent so many years in a state of constant intimidation at the hands of the Haredim that they no longer even remember who they're supposed to be - literally. Nearly all of the MO alive now have grown up in this environment. The handful of elderly Modern Orthodox who remember what it was like before the War, before the Haredim arrived to tell them they'd been doing it all wrong, are nearly gone. Very soon, there will be none left. Even the Rav's grandson, the current Talner Rebbe, is Haredi.)

There's another aspect to this as well, which I'll mention in case ca is still reading. His mother is in a very bad situation right now. I won't go into it, but she's in desperate need of legal representation and has no money. She's been becoming more observant over the past couple of years, in an attempt to remain close to her son - she now considers herself Orthodox, more or less - and has become friendly with the Chabad rabbi who first recruited and indoctrinated him. She appealed to the rabbi for help, and he essentially hung her out to dry. He got a lawyer to agree, supposedly, to help her, but he then did nothing, and the rabbi wasn't about to press him. The lawyer attends and contributes money to his shul. She has no money and no more ova to fertilize. She's given them the one child she had, and is of no further use to them. She even took out a loan she won't be able to repay in order to finance part of his yeshiva education. They don't care.

Pieces of drek, every damn one of them. As awful as the other Hasidic sects are, they at least, for the most part, have the decency to leave other people's children alone. Chabad, Aish, Ohr Somayach - kiruv is an abomination.

I wish there were such a thing as divine retribution and postmortem consequences for people such as these. Unfortunately, there isn't.


arent arabs also the seed of abraham?

Yoel Mechanic

Jeff; is this the kid who needs to return to college? (maybe now that he is married, he can, and will!)

western jew

Eichler is like a peanut that was never really ripe anyhow.

ultra haredi lite

Was Reb Shmuel Salant, Reb Yosef Chaim Sonenfeld and the Yishuv Hayashan in existence before the founding of the State of Israel or after?


Let's send them all to the West Bank, then pull back the IDF. I think we'll discover who is carrying, who is living off of.

I've always advocated that just as long as they are off doing their thing by themselves to themselves.........but this is beyond the pale.


I guess "mazal tov" is inappropriate in this case?

It certainly is.

I mentioned him by way of follow-up as ca and I discussed him on a couple of occasions.

Steven W

He is absolutely correct that if it were not for the haredim, there would be no Israel.

In fact, he has a photograph of Abraham with a shtreimel greeting the 3 angels at his tent. Isaac, however, photoshopped out Sarah for modesty reasons on the way back down from Moriah. And that is why Sarah is not mentioned again except to note her death.

spacedout BT

R. Bezalel Zolti once said- "I don't know what Hashem loves more- the Chareidim who are moser nefesh to learn Torah in E"Y or the graves of the secular kibbutznikim who fell in Israel's wars."


Jeff -

mazel tov.....i guess....

Yochanan Lavie

Jeff: I guess "mazal tov" is inappropriate in this case?


Hi Jeff, Thanks for the honorable mention in the Steinsaltz post. Hope all is well.

Posted by: ca | May 01, 2012 at 04:39 PM

Hey, ca. Hope you and your family are all well.

If you're interested, PBS' Religion & Ethics Newsweekly had a segment on Steinsaltz this past weekend: Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz - Religion & Ethics Newsweekly.

By the way, my nephew recently married the daughter of the Madrid shliach - so he's in for good. As you may imagine, I'm thrilled.


Deremes- Isuggest you change youre name to derfantazia instead of deremes, since youre more fantasy then reality


Deremes, any news yet?

Please be assured that I am aware of Eleazer Shapira of Munkatch's view that America is even more evil than the Zionists, and will therefore secure quality German trucks such as Mercedes Benz and MAN (Volkswagen Group) rather than Macks and Freightliners for the Rabbonim's delectation.


Livni, the former opposition leader, announced her resignation late yesterday.



Hi Jeff, Thanks for the honorable mention in the Steinsaltz post. Hope all is well.


The sense of entitlement among these clowns is unbelievable. Do they really think they can continue to do nothing for society; not to work, educate, fight or vaccinate their children forever? The days are coming that Israelis will simply not tolerate having these parasites hang around in kollel drinking, smoking and farting all day.

Yochanan Lavie

In all fairness, there were some National Religious pioneers, even some who would be considered today "chardal." But even Rav Kook recognized the hard work of the secular chalutzim, and praised them for it.


That's like saying the fish survive in the water because of pollution.

Posted by: Mike

You took the mouth out of my words.



If it were not for secular Jews who did the heavy lifting to create the medina, parasites like this buffoon and other lazy schkotzim, the haredim would just be sitting around picking their noses, learning what to do when a bull gores another creature, and making women pregnant. Beyond that and being experts on gaming the system, they have no skills.


That's like saying the fish survive in the water because of pollution.


Posted by: Alter Kocker

He will find that his exalted status plummets once Israel becomes a totally secular state. Maybe he can earn a few shekels by being a human cannon ball in some farkakter, shomer shabbos amusement park.

Israel was created by hard working Zionists who did what no haredi had done for thousands of years; have a dream and work to realize it.

If it were for the parasites like this buffoon the lazy schkotzim, the haredim would just be sitting around picking their noses, learning what to do when a bull gores another creature, and making women pregnant.

What a pathetic group of losers.

Alter Kocker

Eichler is a fucking retard:
Livni's mistake was not keeping her mouth shut until she was PM, then she could have really made changes. The nerve of this animal and the rest of his kind: to fuck around all taxpaying working Israelis so that the black hats can sit around, do nothing and suck of the public teat. Eichler had better get ready, secular Israel is really tired of footing the bills for these wastes. One day soon, someone in the knesset will formulate a bill and effectively end the Haredi way of life in Israel, end the stipends, stop subsidizing yeshiva and kollel and make PUBLIC service mandatory-I would love to see Eichler on a road crew fixing potholes or cleaning public toilets.

Leibel Schenkel

Everybody knows that after the destruction of the Second Temple, the ancestors of the Chareidi Jews were sent into exile. Nowhere is there any documentation that the ancestors of the Zionists were ever in exile. Nor is there any proof that there were any real Chareidim in Israel prior to 1948.


aww angry RW is here with his usual schtick.
In any case you illiterate schmuck many haredim are Zionist and especial a MK



R. Wisler

I thought that all of the hareidim held by the prohibition of the "three oaths" that Yoel Teitlebaum was so infatuated with and spent most of his life spewing. Now they're turning Zionist when it suits their hateful agenda?


He is a self centered egotistical moron.

Posted by: jancsibacsi | May 01, 2012 at 01:28 PM

true but they get away with it


He is a self centered egotistical moron.


That is to say, how can an Ashkenazi be racist against another Ashkenazi...we all know there are Jews that are racist against Ethiopian Jews.


A racist? How can a Jew be a racist against another Jew? What an idiot.


I hope she makes public every dirty deal, every favor done for them she witnessed while she was in office.

Of course, all political systems work the same way, but I'm sick to death of these holy con men, who claim to be serving God while they're really serving themselves, and who have a stranglehold on Israel.

Someone should also tell Eichler he looks like a stovepipe.



what an idiot

amazing the people who do the least to secure Israel and establish Israel want to take all the credit

however this thinking is common amongst the herdeim these is how they justify all their demands

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