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May 18, 2012

Haredim Demand To Censor Media

CitiField logoThe planned haredi gathering against the Internet organized by Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh (Union of Communities for the Purity of the Camp) will be censoring the news reported about it, FailedMessiah.com has exclusively learned.

CitiField logo

Originally published at 5:49 pm CDT on Thursday, May 17, 2012

Haredim Demand To Censor Media At CitiField Gathering
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

The planned haredi gathering against the Internet organized by Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh (Union of Communities for the Purity of the Camp) will be censoring the news reported about it, FailedMessiah.com has exclusively learned.

Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh has decided to admit news organizations or reporters deemed to be friendly to the gathering, while barring all others.

News organizations and reporters who are admitted must first agree to allow Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh to review and censor whatever photos, videos, recordings and reports they make at the gathering or from information gathered at it before those photos, recordings, videos or reports are published.

The move appears to be aimed primarily at haredi news websites and haredi photojournalists.

Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh has apparently also moved to shape perception of the event by limiting the number of tickets available for sale in non-hasidic areas of Brooklyn, particularly Flatbush. FailedMessiah.com has been told of non-hasidic haredi synagogues which repeatedly tried to get tickets to sell to or provide their membership. These synagogues were allegedly repeatedly promised tickets by Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh. But in the end, after weeks of trying, none received any. The Flatbush community is seen as being less sympathetic to the organizers outlook than other Brooklyn haredi communities. For the same reason, the Chabad area of Brooklyn, Crown Heights, was excluded, as well.

The event is now sold out, although it is unclear how many tickets were distrubuted by Ichud Hakehillos Letohar Hamachaneh to supporters at discount prices or at no cost.

Censorship and skewing the audience are not the only controversies surrounding the gathering.

Many haredi victims of child sexual abuse complain that the approximately $2 million dollars spent on this gathering would have been better spent instituting programs and training to curtail child sexual abuse and help victims. Some have even organized a protest of the gathering.

The controversial gathering’s initiator, Rabbi Nechemia Gottlieb, a Lakewood educator, allegedly savagely beat children in a school he ran there, FailedMessiah.com exclusively reported eight days ago.

Gottlieb carried out this savage abuse over a period of years before he was finally removed from the school.

But like many other haredim who commit crimes against children in the haredi community, Gottlieb was not reported to police. Instead, parents were threatened and intimidated, and Gottlieb was protected, by powerful haredi rabbis including, allegedly, Matisyahu Salomon. Salomon, the mashgiach ruchanai(spiritual supervisor) of Lakewood yeshiva, is a key backer of the anti-Internet gathering.

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I'm sorry, I still don't understand.

Other than the grotesque waste of money (although this has clearly been donated by a willing party), what is wrong with this Asifah?

How about Rabbi Aron Schiff Antwerp Chief rabbi a leading Rabbi who is scheduled to participate in the event the main perpetrator of threatening and tempering witnesses not to report and or cooperate with Authorities, especially against the victims of his close relative and family (both strong followers of Belz sect Jerusalem) MENACHEM DEUTSCH!!!!

Daniel Cohen

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

Meanwhile, do Haredim have a monopoly on names of organizations that no one else can understand?

How about Rabbi Aron Schiff the Antwerp Chief rabbi, a leading Rabbi who is scheduled to participate in the event, and is the main perpetrator of threatening and tempering witnesses not to report and or cooperate with Authorities, especially against the victims of his close relative and family MENACHEM DEUTSCH!!!! of Borough Park

Daniel Cohen

solomon has ruined his reputation years ago by covering up for kolko

gotlieb is a thug and yet no one in the community has the guts to call this what it is a shameless attempt by otlieb to be relevant after beating children and for solomon to get a nice burial plot in bnei brak ( he is in very bad health and his family didnt want him near this event

Like all fanatics they are allergic to the truth.

I'll be live blogging from the event with uncensored pictures, comments, gossip and news.

I'll be live blogging from the event with uncensored pictures, comments, gossip and news.

Posted by: ultra haredi lite | May 17, 2012 at 06:33 PM


Uncensored pictures!!

Should we get excited?

Damn, I just remembered. It's men only.

"Damn, I just remembered. It's men only."

I'm OK with that.

So let me get this straight. They are making an event for 40,000 people at CitiField to encourage internet and information censorship (the evil blogs, etc). They are censoring who can purchase tickets to attend the event. They are censoring recordings (audio and video) of the event. And they are censoring the press on what can be reported about the event.

Aint Democracy grand? It affords Hareidim the right to live in a country and set up their own little theocratic rulership which censors all outside information, and forbids and punishes reporting crimes to civil law enforcement.

But they love democracy! Just ask them. They'll be glad to give you (the censored version of) their opinions on it.

They are renting out the tennis stadium down the block also. It seats 22,500 and tickets are available for purchase. But still not women. Tickets are on sale on ebay and fetching quite a high price, but I am unsure if people actually plan on paying the ridicules price. This one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Internet-assifa-8-FRONT-ROW-tix-for-SOLD-OUT-EVENT-/320904752174?pt=US_Tickets_all_in_one&hash=item4ab769ec2e#ht_500wt_1182 was certainly fake. But this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-tickets-to-sold-out-internet-asifa-at-citi-field-sunday-may-20-/230791418172?pt=US_Tickets_all_in_one&hash=item35bc3d913c#ht_737wt_1139 looks real. According to Ami magazine organizers were able to stop supposed female reporters who planned on dressing as men and attending the event.

If they are such a fan of censorship, why don't they just move to a country that censors everything for them? There are plenty of autocratic or theocratic countries that would be happy to oblige them in their (ever growing and unprecedented) pursuit of censorship.

Oh, silly me, it's because those countries aren't democratic. And they value democracy. Indeed, they rely on it. Where else, besides for in a democratic country, can they use legal principles of "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" to claim that that is why they support alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse (child rape) who are being tried in criminal court?

Just ask the thousands of Satmer chassidim who showed up last night to support and pay for the legal defense of a sexual predator about to be tried in criminal court. And just ask the victim, the victim's family, and the victim's friends, who have been harassed, threatened and bribed all because they asked the civil, democratic court system to protect their democratic rights.

They will soon learn that "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" eventually comes out - one way or another. The truth is either revealed slowly, in a leakage that rots away at the infrastructure of lies, or the truth is revealed in a full blown explosion as a result of all the pressure built into covering it up. But eventually the truth surfaces, in all of its ugliness and glory.

According to Ami magazine organizers were able to stop supposed female reporters who planned on dressing as men and attending the event.

Was Barbra Steisand trying to attend? I mean, seriously.

Well, now we know where the KGB officers got jobs after the Soviet Union folded.

and for solomon to get a nice burial plot in bnei brak ( he is in very bad health and his family didnt want him near this event

Thelionroars - Can you elaborate on this? How did Solomon get a burial plot out of this?

Here's another joke. They are going to have 40,000 people there, and they think that they can police everyone there and that NO ONE is capable of recording the event? How many KGB officers are they paying already?

Because as we all know, they're BOUND to say something absolutely ridiculous. Well, the whole thing is ridiculous. but still.

Could someone put it on Ustream?

Ylove is a fag!

and Ty, YOU are a total douschbag! Why don't you you man up and use your real name, or try saying that in person?

i mean i think this whole thing is ridiculous, but it is a private event. they have the right to do whatever they want, and the media has the right to report that they were blocked from going.
in regards to being a waste of money, how other people waste their money is not really my concern. sure in my eyes the money couldve been better spent, but its not my money.

So lets get this straight, the black hatted black hearted assfucking con-artists are putting on a dog and pony show for each other so that they can slag the internet and blogs that out them to the real world.

Truthfully, they know that they are screwed. They are merely trying to prevent their accolytes from finding out the truth and going off derech. Those numbers increase daily as authorities become aware of the multitude of illegal and immoral acts in the name of the cult. Time will come where these gedolim will not be able to poke their fingers into the holes in the dam and the flood that follows will decimate their numbers. You don't go and declare a gathering such as this unless you are painfully frightened that the numbers discovering the truth will multiply exponentially.

They will not be using the big screens at the event in Citi Field, though they will still be filmed and fed live to other locations. This decision was made after a skverrer chusid voiced his concern about looking at a tumah box, and offered to sponsor binoculars for everybody instead.

This event will be relevant to 0.000001% of the world's population. Sort of like the Mets.

The event is now sold out

WOW!

I'm davening that Hashem should perform a miracle and send out as many lightning as needed to rid the world of some of these"gedolim" who are in fatc scared little bitches.

Some pointers:

What's interesting to me is that people were reporting right here on FM just a few short days ago that the organizers can barely get 10,000 people to sign up, and that they are selling the tickets at a discount.

Now we hear that the 40,000 seat stadium is totally sold out, they rented another stadium with another 22,000 seats ,and is also sold out, and that entire orthodox synogogues in Flatbush and other places are trying so hard to get tickets, but there aren't any to be found!

Who would've thunk??


Censorship and skewing the audience are not the only controversies surrounding the gathering.

I didn't know that censorship and skewing the audience was a controversy. They aren't trying to make any statement to the rest of us. They are gathering together for their own purposes, and they will accept upon themselves to face the danger of the internet smartly. I don't see the problem with that.


Many haredi victims of child sexual abuse complain that the approximately $2 million dollars spent on this gathering would have been better spent instituting programs and training to curtail child sexual abuse and help victims.

A very stupid argument indeed. Everyone has their own pet projects. I remember one poster before mentioned that Shmarya's pet project was the Ethiopian Jews. Some people would say that environmental projects are more important, or the high cost of tuition in the Orthodox world. What's wrong with focusing on the internet?


The controversial gathering’s initiator, Rabbi Nechemia Gottlieb, a Lakewood educator, allegedly savagely beat children in a school he ran there, FailedMessiah.com exclusively reported eight days ago.

Gottlieb carried out this savage abuse over a period of years before he was finally removed from the school.

Good point. If the allegations are correct, he should be put in jail together with his enablers. I did hear a rumor that many rabbis refused to attend the asifah until Gottlieb was removed.

and for solomon to get a nice burial plot in bnei brak ( he is in very bad health and his family didnt want him near this event

Thelionroars - Can you elaborate on this? How did Solomon get a burial plot out of this


soloman is very sick his visits and this asifa have got him recognized by some of isreals yeshiva world so whe he dies he will be accorded a nice plot in bnie brak

Well, if the reporters and journalists cannot get inside, they can instead hopefully give good coverage to the counter-demo outside.

Where are 60,000 people (males) coming from? Are there that many in NY and Lakewood? Are they coerced to attend?

Well, if the reporters and journalists cannot get inside, they can instead hopefully give good coverage to the counter-demo outside.

Posted by: Rochel | May 17, 2012 at 10:22 PM

Yes, all 15 of them.


Where are 60,000 people (males) coming from? Are there that many in NY and Lakewood? Are they coerced to attend?

Posted by: Bas Melech | May 17, 2012 at 11:07 PM


From what I understand, there is no coercion going on. In fact, I'm told that many haredi rabbis are against this asifah because they feel that this is not the proper way to deal with the dangers of the internet.

I'm told that there is a huge healthy debate going on in the haredi communities about whether to attend. Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum from Satmar-Monroe specifically told his tens of thousands of followers NOT to go. His brother Rabbi Zalman Leib of Williamsburg told his followers to go.

My sources in Lakewood tell me that the community is split whether to go or not.

But it does seem that with all the debate, 60,000 people are actually going. Lakewood alone is sending over 200 busses.

Lakewood alone is sending over 200 busses.

And two boats (so far that I know of)

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2012/05/larger-boat-chartered-for-sunday-due-to-overwhelming-demand.html

Random thoughts:
1. Here's hoping Gd sends a drenching, hurricane of a storm and they cannot conduct their gathering.
2. Anyone from the microphone who says that it is forbidden to inform the authorities of allegations of child sex abuse must be arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated.
3. It is so appropriate that the Flatbush yeshivish people, who ape anything and everything the hasidim do, and who want so badly to be accepted by the hasidim, should be shut out of this gathering because they are not sympathetic enough. Love it.
4. I don't want to see a single word of this gathering reported anywhere, in any forum. Noone really cares what hasidim have to say about anything. They are completely irrelevant.

Random thought to you, Shmuel:

If hasidim are so irrelevant, why the hell do you give a damn whether they are reported?

Me thinks they are a little too relevant to you.

Oh citifield here I come
Away from the doom
And the gloom of the day
I will sit in your sunlight
And soak up the room
Of the really great leaders today
As I exhume my heart
And confess that today I am less
Than orthodox in my online activity
Oh amazing souls before me today
Let me say goodbye to the computer and its allay
I will hope to be a better man
And never leave the world without a pixel that I did not create.

in regards to being a waste of money, how other people waste their money is not really my concern. sure in my eyes the money couldve been better spent, but its not my money.

Posted by: jk | May 17, 2012 at 08:20 PM

It is your money, in that many of those in attendance will be on some form of public support.

Food and rent they don't have money for. This they have money for.

Everyone has their own pet projects. I remember one poster before mentioned that Shmarya's pet project was the Ethiopian Jews. Some people would say that environmental projects are more important, or the high cost of tuition in the Orthodox world. What's wrong with focusing on the internet?

1. Those are legitimate problems. The "problem" they perceive with the internet is a fictitious byproduct of their psychotic belief system.

2. They're spending money, collectively and individually, that should be spent on the upkeep of their constituency, much of which relies upon social services. As I just said, food and rent they don't have money for. This they have money for.

3. One of their objectives is to make it clear to that constituency that they are forbidden to report these crimes to secular authorities. This is illegal, and as shmuel said a few comments prior, "Anyone from the microphone who says that it is forbidden to inform the authorities of allegations of child sex abuse must be arrested, prosecuted, convicted and incarcerated." I agree wholeheartedly.

Lubavitchers are Christians, I'm curious - what is your deal? You told me you aren't frum, yet apart from Lubavitchers (and again, to be clear, I don't disagree with you about them), you're extremely defensive of the Haredi world. You also told us a couple of days ago that you've been told everything was just fine in the old country. Are you a baal teshuvah, or a secular guy who's come under the tutelage of a Haredi teacher?

But it does seem that with all the debate, 60,000 people are actually going. Lakewood alone is sending over 200 busses.

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | May 17, 2012 at 11:43 PM

Will the event be webcasted?

It's been said that the guy who protests loudest about some "danger" is likely hiding something. (Think Ted Haggard, George Rekers, Larry Craig, Peter Teleborian). If there's one main guy behind this event and he's a bit shady to start, then someone ought to get a look at his computers and devices.

It's been said that the guy who protests loudest about some "danger" is likely hiding something.

Posted by: Afar Vefer | May 18, 2012 at 06:29 AM

I guess Shmarya must be hiding something BIGTIME!

guess Shmarya must be hiding something BIGTIME!

Posted by: Logic | May 18, 2012 at 07:13 AM

There's a difference between protesting and exposing. Yeshiva education, I assume?

Love the pseudonym, by the way. I've said it many times - you guys have no sense of irony.

Someone ought to look into gottleebs financials and find out why he and his cronies collects welfere and sec. Eight .

The Satmar are using the same US Government system of distraction and blame that is typical of new-age hierarchists. They also want the pictures of Citi Field filled with black hats so they will have the image of their swarm covering the earth. They are locusts, set to prey upon the youth of Israel, to defile or destroy us wherever and whenever possible. Every word is full of hate and deceit, every utterance a proclamation from a sodomite. They seek the destruction of Israel, of the law of Moses, of liberty, of individuality. They provide the enemy with moral support and act as ideological agents of those who seek our annihilation. SNAP OUT OF IT.

There's a difference between protesting and exposing. Yeshiva education, I assume?


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/protest

Protest:

v.
1. To express strong objection.
2. To make an earnest avowal or affirmation.

n.
1. A formal declaration of disapproval or objection issued by a concerned person, group, or organization.
2. An individual or collective gesture or display of disapproval.

Me thinks Shmarya doest *protest* at times.

They sold tickets through the schools. The ultimate irony--using girls' schools to market an event for men only. The implication was that if you didn't buy a ticket, your kids would be kicked out.


Lubavitchers are Christians, I'm curious - what is your deal? You told me you aren't frum, yet apart from Lubavitchers (and again, to be clear, I don't disagree with you about them), you're extremely defensive of the Haredi world.


Posted by: Jeff | May 18, 2012 at 04:11 AM


I am not frum, but I don't live my life hating frum people. When I see legitimate concerns about the frum world, such as not reporting molesters, I share the same outrage as you. However, when I see a culture that is different than mine, I don't use hatred to condemn it all.

I try to be open-minded about everything I see.

As an example, I support the protest that was held in Williamsburg against the fundraiser for Weberman. I do believe that Satmar has gone too far in supporting an alleged child rapist.

(I must admit that reading Deremes's comments made me realize that had the protest not taken place, there probably would have been just 200 people at the fundraiser instead of the 5,000 that showed up.)

But I can't find myself supporting the protest against the internet asifah. Frankly, I don't see the problem with 40,000 ffrumma getting together and deciding amongst themeselves to be careful with the internet. Anyone with children at home knows that the internet is a problem, and especially in the frum culture where they raise their children free of any porn and the likes. Whether we agree with them or not is not the point, they have their culture, and I don't see the problem with them dealing with a problem that they think they have.

Would we have a problem with the Amish making such an asifah for themselves? I suspect not.

The issues that people have is that its men only. Who cares? They make so many women asifahs too. Its for themselves, not the general public. We all know that everything they do is gender seregated. Try walking into an ezras nashim, or a women's asifah, and they'll throw you out on your head. Is that gender discrimination against men?!

The other issue I've heard is that there are more important things to spend money on. That's true, and as I've said before, everyone has their pet projects that they believe are "more important". It does not take away from the importance of making an internet asifah (as per their culture and beliefs). Yes, they should be working on all their problems, and since the internet is one of their problems, this is a good start.

The issue with Gottlieb running this asifah is a valid issue, and Gottlieb should be locked up for life (if the allegations are true). I have heard that many rabbis wouldn't attend until they heard that Gottlieb wasn't involved anymore.

Jeff, I do not try to defend frumma. I try to think with an open mind, and I don't have any hatred to frumma, so I don't have others' gut reactions to condemn everything that I see.

Would we have a problem with the Amish making such an asifah for themselves? I suspect not.

Well, I would - I consider it another repressive belief system that has far outlived its time - however,

The other issue I've heard is that there are more important things to spend money on. That's true, and as I've said before, everyone has their pet projects that they believe are "more important".

The Amish tend to be self-sufficient, or the community provides for them. They aren't milking government agencies for all they're worth (I don't think they avail themselves of social services at all) - and if they had a gathering to discuss a communal problem (obviously, it wouldn't have to do with technology), they'd get together in their churches. They wouldn't spend millions of dollars renting a field, advertising it, etc. While much (perhaps most) of their food, housing, medical care, etc. is being paid for with public funds, it's unacceptable for the wealthy among them and/or the community as a whole to be shelling out this kind of money on something that serves no practical purpose. In fact, its only real purpose is to convince themselves they're shoring up the walls.

However, when I see a culture that is different than mine, I don't use hatred to condemn it all... I do not try to defend frumma. I try to think with an open mind, and I don't have any hatred to frumma, so I don't have others' gut reactions to condemn everything that I see.

You do seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to Lubavitch, though.

It will certainly be a great place for frum men to meet other men. I'd hate to imagine what the bathrooms will be like, but I certainly wouldn't encourage any children to go in unattended.

Lubavitchers are Christians | May 18, 2012 at 09:24 AM

I generally agree with what you expressed.
There is a lot of pressure to attend and agree with the asifah. Off Shabbos has been made bochurim can attend and not go home to their families. The asifah is the place to be and be seen.

Personally, I no live m life according to what the rabbis and others think. Let them have their rally.

I didn't think that there were that many frum population-wise. You enlightened me. No wonder politicians fear them.


You do seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to Lubavitch, though.

Posted by: Jeff | May 18, 2012 at 09:52 AM

Not really. All I do is point out that they are Christians, and they are. They have removed themselves from the Jewish nation by worshipping a dead man. That is not a knee-jerk reaction. It's a simple fact.

This rally, like the one in Williamsburg in support of that molester, are considered 'must attend' events for those whose rabbis say so.

If you're a black hatter and aren't there, you will have questions to answer the next day, and/or otherwise will find yourself on the receiving end of a dreaded dose of ostracism, whether it be raised eyebrows, whispers behind your back, or people suddenly avoiding you in shul, or worse.

It's best to attend, act enthusiastic, hand over some money, and keep your standing intact. And don't raise any questions to challenge those who decided to stage the event.

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton, rock star and sports superstar | May 18, 2012 at 01:53 PM

You're right. At moments like this, I'm put in mind of the Hasidic guy who was on here a couple of months ago, saying, "Instead of criticizing us, whey don't you try to help us? We're so lost!" Then I feel very small for belittling them.

Of course, then one of the lunatics shows up and starts defending MBP, a child abuser or a man who won't give his wife a get, telling us that if we weren't such ignorant apikorsim we'd realize that the rabbonim are always right - and my remorse goes right out the window.

Tho whole Stadium beezwax is A a tarte desosri, an oxymoron.
Do not go to unkosher internet sights showing degenerates. But if you imitate their maaseh Sdom and maaseh eretz Mitzrtayim, you have nothing what to worry, we will go to other end of the world, and protect you. Did I hear you right?

I would highly recommend to take those filters and place it your mouth, for lack of another place.

Jeff, I recently re-read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. He states it is impossible to change people's minds. The opinions and beliefs we hold are a part of what bolsters up our ego and our sense of being a smart and capable person; shoot that down in another guy, and you're guaranteed to have made an enemy. Nobody likes to hear that they could be wrong.

I urge everyone to get a hold of the book. It's a quick read, and still enlightening after all these years.

Religion and politics are the worst areas to try to change people's opinions. Politicians running for office aim for the 'undecideds' and solidifying the base of people already on their side.

People raised in the frumma velt can't allow themselves to ever admit at any level that they might be wrong. The entire house of cards, both within their own fragile minds and egos, as well as the foundations of their religion and community, would crumble. Nobody will allow you to do that to them; certainly not without a fight.

And so, you will never see a posting from one of our frumma bretheren saying "You know Jeff, that's a good point. What the heck have I been thinking all these years?"

But you can get people to pause and consider what you said, even if they say they reject it, if a message is delivered while making someone feel better about themselves. They will bring it up in conversation with their friends. Their friends will stop by FM and take a look. Thoughts will be challenged. Change will come by evolution- and I believe in evolution- and we won't even notice the changes as they occur until after the fact.

WSC, as I've mentioned here before, there's a growing body of evidence indicating a strong neurological foundation for fundamentalism. I've suspected as much for decades; I'm convinced it will be born out (or would be, if we had enough time left as a species, which I don't think we have). The rare person who leaves the Haredi or evangelical world essentially won the genetic lottery. I don't think most of them have the capacity.

I don't believe gradual, incremental change is possible for these subcultures. Either they have to be dismantled forcibly - which of course won't happen - or we have to wait for them to collapse (which we can see happening, but again, I don't think we have enough time left for it to matter).

You'd think this would move me to be more compassionate, but I find I can't be. This business of defending MBP, or of siding with the abuser and blaming the victim, etc., enrages me. As long as they get to keep their fragile hold on the security blanket, that is all that matters. Most will sacrifice their own children in order to keep the illusion going. They're typical human beings - stupid, lazy and utterly selfish. Like their evangelical counterparts, they think they have an exclusive handle on absolute truth, that they represent the "cure" - whereas in reality, they comprise one of the most egregious manifestations of the illness from which humanity suffers collectively. They illustrate the reason we won't survive.

At any rate, I think it's time for me to walk away again. I don't like who I am when I'm here. I don't like the person they turn me into - and I don't need the aggravation.

The fifth kashe of the ma Nishtana is as in the following. If surfing the net which leads to seeing smut is not letohar hamachneh, why is learning from the smut and then acting out the learned smut, only to protect this smut action, and cover up these smut actioneers, and in turn shutting up these victims and their families, which only encourages these rapists to keep going on and on, why is this in line and Ok and fine and dandy with Letohar Hamachaneh?? Is this the supposed message conveyed, do as I tell you and not how I do?? Why are you afraid to take it one step beyond the surfing, and ban the raping as well?? Why stop short and not metaher the sheretz bekuf nun taamim from the actual tumah letohar hamachneh, huh? Something stinks out there and smells all the way here.

I hope that mainstream Orthodox Jews see this for what it is, a Haredi power grab. The more that the fanatical right can set policy, the more power they have to write regular Orthodox people out of the mainstream. This goes to adjudicating marriage and divorce, and therefore legitimacy of birth, and therefore, conversions, and therefore, the more general questions regarding who is a Jew, plus who certifies food as universally acceptable, who certifies chinuch as acceptable, and so on. One thing hinges on the next.

Ultimately, they hope, no one will be able to get married, divorced, sell kosher food, open a school, do a brit milah, or fundraise (oooooh, follow the money) without their approval. Otherwise, they will risk being "not universally accepted".

Sadly, the mainstream Orthodox leadership is so weak and decentralized that they will not see any of this before it is too late.

P.S.

I think they also hope that the rest of us will spend ourselves chasing after the hypocrisy and absurdity of their rationale before realizing that it is all a mere pretext.

In Beit Shemesh, for instance, do you really think that the Haredi gangsters give a hoot if a schoolgirl's dress is a long or a little longer.

I find this asifah to be a gasp of the dying candle. They don't know how to put the genie back in the bottled, because you can't.

I find it fascinating that this is happening while a nerd Jew from Long Island, who married a Chinese Shiksah on Shabbos, yet is worth 19 Billion $$$! How many at the asifah would give their _____ to lay their hand on this money... they'd be willing to ... have internet...

The tragedy of Zuckerman (from a Jewish point of view) is that the leaders of previous generations could not find a compromise, and hence lost millions of Jews who find this fanaticism as relevant as the Asifahs the Mullah in Iran makes (he has more buses, and also only men..)

The outreach community will suffer from this , as potential BT's will see that we are dealing with Luddites, and even worse: using the same motivation against the internet as China, Iran & Syria, to prevent negative information about the power structure to reach the masses.

Flatbusher, you hit the nail on the head with one particular point:

Young Jews today (in their 20's) in the real world (the part of planet Earth outside of the Brooklyn/Orange & Rockland Counties/Lakewood NJ) look at the black-hat-and-beard crowd as Luddites.

Although, as one of my Facebook friends posted this morning, the Luddites wanted to work. These guys are just trying to protect their power base.

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