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May 15, 2012

Chabad Student Rape Trial Decision Looms

David Cyprys closeupOn Monday, a judge will decide whether or not a man who was a "mentor" to students at Chabad's flagship yeshiva in Melbourne will stand trial for allegedly raping at least a dozen students, some long after Chabad knew what David Cyprys was allegedly doing. But Chabad did nothing to limit Cyprys' contact with young boys.

David Cyprys closeup
David Cyprys

Chabad Student Rape Trial Decision Looms
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

On Monday, a judge will decide whether or not a man who was a mentor to students at Chabad's flagship yeshiva in Melbourne will stand trial for allegedly raping at least a dozen students, some long after Chabad knew what David Cyprys was allegedly doing. But Chabad did nothing to limit Cyprys' contact with young boys.

David Cyprys, who worked as a security guard and a caretaker at Chabad’s Yeshiva College in Melbourne, Australia, is charged with at least 50 total counts of rape and indecent assault, all committed against boys between 1982 and 1991.

According to The Age, a Melbourne court yesterday heard that Cyprys had anally penetrated one teenager at a family home. Police told the court the victim told police “he had covered my mouth to stop me screaming.” The boy was allegedly raped before he was 16-years-old. Cyprys allegedly raped the boy on the boy’s 16th birthday, as well. Cyprys also allegedly raped the boy in the community’s men’s mikva, ritual bath.

Cyprys, who is a locksmith, could open all the doors at the college.

Chabad leadership was told about Cyprys' sexual assaults, alleged victims claim, but Chabad's Australia head, Rabbi Yitzchok Dovid Groner, allegedly protected Cyprys and coerced families to be silent about the abuse.

Other leading Chabad figures who were told about the alleged abuse but who did nothing to protect the children in their community from it allegedly includes the school's former principal Rabbi Abraham Glick, who this week changed his testimony to acknowledge that he had, in fact, had some knowledge of the alleged sexual assaults.

But Glick acknowledgement only included a time period after the sexual assaults currently being prosecuted allegedly took place.

Same of the alleged victims and others in the Chabad community of Melbourne have asserted that Glick knew years before that, and that he knowingly allowed Cyprys to have unsupervised contact with children anyway.

Chabad's International leadership based in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn, New York has not issued public comment on the arrest and charges or on the pending extradition of another Yeshiva College employee, David Kramer, who was allegedly helped to flee Australia by Groner more than a decade ago. Kramer went on to sexually abuse boys in St. Louis, Missouri.

But unlike the behavior of Chabad, Rabbi Ze'ev Smason, a St. Louis-based Orthodox rabbi, reported Kramer to police. Kramer was arrested, tried and convicted. He is now at the end of serving a seven year prison sentence.

Smason was the first halakhic advisor of The Awareness Center, The Jewish Coalition against Sexual Abuse and Violence.

Comments

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if it is true what he did and it appears so then that should remove the entire board that served for the bast five years


interesting to know what herzog family involvement in the coverup is ( big donors and freinds with groner ) i heardthey are paying for cyprus defense

The truly shocking thing is that I'm not surprised.

Thank you for reposting this article. Points for clarification: At the time of the David Kramer incident, I was (and remain) the rabbi of Nusach Hari Bnai Zion Congregation -- not Aish HaTorah. Additionally, I am not haredi.

Ze'ev Smason

As I detailed on the previous blog relating to the changing of testimony by Rabbi Glick, it has been brought to my attention through another former student at Yeshivah linked with a victim in this saga that, despite Rabbi Glick amending his testimony earlier this week, Rabbi Glick's testimony at the hearing was still incomplete and contained a number of serious omissions and mistruths.

The most serious of the omissions or mistruths relates to the fact that Rabbi Glick was allegedly personally made aware of the alleged sexual abuse of a victim, by the victim and his family well before the early 2000's, and indeed was made aware in the early to mid 1990's, whilst Rabbi Glick was still principal at the school. Indeed Rabbi Glick continued to act as the principal at the school for up to another 10 years, all whilst Cyprys was still allowed to roam free on school grounds (with authority as a security guard) and procure potential further victims from the school inside and outside school hours.

It is only matter of time before the full extent of the deceit and mistruths of those such as Rabbi Glick come back to haunt them. Personally I have lost what little respect I used to have for Rabbi Glick and the vaad. Surely it is time for Rabbi Glick and the various others who facilitated Cyprys' transgressions to fess up. I don't know how these self-professed pious individuals can sleep at night knowing that they enabled through their actions, lack of actions and / or dereliction of their duties, the physical, psychological and sexual abuse and harm to at least 12 innocent children in their care.

As a parent, I personally believe that the total disregard shown by Rabbi Glick and the leadership team at Yeshivah for the safety and security of the children in their care is criminal, despicable, inexcusable and deserves to be dealt with by the full force of both criminal and civil sanctions!

Although we should not bear grudges, in this case I await in anticipation the day of reckoning for those who have facilitated, aided and abetted in the harm caused to soo many previously innocent children.

It is time that the vaad recognizes Rabbi Glick's failures and asks him to step down as a member of staff and from the board. Without such action no one in community will be able to have any faith in the leadership of the Yeshivah or what I is meant to stand for.

I fear the day that the Yeshivah, g-d forbid, is required to wind up, due to the failure of those who are responsible for aiding this saga taking place, acknowledging their personal fault in this unfortunate turn of events. For the sake of saving Yeshivah do the Honourable thing. Everyone is human and makes mistakes... Remember it takes two lies to cover up each earlier lie and it is only a matter of time before the web of deceit will be exposed and will come falling down like a house of cards.

herzog must go

Is this fellow wearing his kippah in court?

@thelion WTF has Herzog got to do with all this? And which Herzog are you talking about?

From what i have read Hertzog is paying the lawyers to defend the aledged peodophile SD.

Henry Herzog or sons of Izzy Herzog?
Let him get legal aid!

another former student - are you really a former student? You are being very generous if you are.

He does have legal aid.....So the Herzog story is total bullshit...

A fifteen year old is not a pedophile, he is a minor having gay sex with other minors. He is either a gay kid or a confused kid experimenting. SD was 15 when the first charge starts. It would be interesting to know who else was engaged in this gay activity with him and who got him started on this path in the first place. Maybe some of it was mutual between the parties involved. The charges end when SD is 23 and stops there. Maybe he got help to stop. What about the other teenage boys? Was it a whole gang of them?

It's easy to sling mud but, without knowing the parties involved, it seems that unless you were in court you wouldn't know what the true stories are.

The whole joke is thst Glick himself was a notorious abuser. when I was at yeshivah college, he woul get off by emotionally abusing kids and embarassing them publicly in a cruel and sadistic manner. His own children were frightened of him. He personally drove away hundreds of students who now want nothing to do with Yeshivah or Chabad, and in many cases religion alltogether.

He is the biggest reason why yeshivah college is struggling with numbers today. Any ex yeshiva student that was under glick does not send his kids to yeshivah today. no way. (unless he is chabad and has no other choice.)

what a pity

@another former student:

Well said. I am totally behind you. The silence from the yeshiva centre during these past months and even in the last two weeks is reprehensible. And anyone who is financially supporting a pedophile should also be held accountable. I can't believe his supporter would have such poor insight. All this makes me so angry. The vaad needs to stand down

Pirkei Avot: an underaged 15 year old person can be a pedophile. Yes, if he has sex with someone not much younger than him I agree with your analysis. But if he has sex with (for example) a 10 year old then yes, it is pedophilia.

Some interesting decisions will need to be made by Yeshiva. After Rabbi Glick's admission, I am not sure he can remain in his position. That's because if former students want to sue, from now on, they can claim that the institution was aware of his knowledge and did not do anything about it. Furthermore, as director of student wellbeing (I think that's his title), someone could ask him how he has incorporated his learnings into the job role. There are, of course, some conflict of issues. For instance, his sister is Nechama Bendet, who is the CEO of the Yeshiva Center.

I think there are people that read this blog that experience schadenfreude and I am saddened that I have to express myself in such a public way (even under the cover of anonymity). But when I think about the number of souls lost as a result of their experience at Yeshiva in the 80's and 90's, one realizes how damaging and pervasive the abuse was. Another blogger mentioned how people don't send their boys to Yeshiva. But the flipside of the coin is that they will send their girls to Beth Rivkah. So, what is it that made and makes Yeshiva such a destructive environement?

i heard herzog is paying the yeshivas lawyers and advising legal aid lawyer they are trying to save the yeshiva from legalresponsibility and i hear the herzog who has the chabad businees district of melbourne is up to his eyeballs with this case

Dave, I wonder if legally SD can be prosecuted for having gay sex with other kids when he was a minor or not, I don't think so. Would be difficult to prove abuse. Obviously SD was a victim too and that is what got him started. Who did it to him? Another boy or a teacher? How can anyone know what occurred in secret over 20 years ago? It all comes down to hearsay there are not witnesses. How can we be sure this whole thing is not a money grab? First get SD then go after Yeshiva for big bucks. There are no charges after age 23. Some reputable people (therapists) swear he is no threat and he has many supporters who say he is a good man and father.

As direct family of the late Izzy Herzog may I please clarify that NONE of the children are paying for any legal costs, nor are they involved with SD in any way.Please do not drag our name into this sordid mess and clarify which Herzogs are involved.

Pirkei Avot -

Why is it OBVIOUS that SD was a victim and that's what got him started. You are certainly good at making assumptions. Also how can your reputable "therapists" SWEAR he is no threat. How can they know what he gets up to? Are they with him 24/7?

If, as you say, he has many supporters, and it seems you are one of them, why don't you all apply to be good character witnesses for him.

While you are about it, take along his partner, Michelle Coleman, Executive Director of the JCCV. I am sure her opinion will carry a lot if weight!!!

As Aussie stated, no Herzog family, not Izzys or Henrys is paying anything, this is complete bullshit. They all have 0 to do with SD and Yeshivah.

This is merely an attempt by someone trying to hijack this forum to run a vendetta on the whole cbd saga.

Mickey Mouse, professionals who have known him as a patient for many years do not perceive him as a threat and that is their professional opinion as trained therapists. If so, then putting him in jail will accomplish nothing except to destroy some people, specifically his own innocent children. And don't they deserve protection too? Should their lives be destroyed too? ASAIK he has had character witnesses who have vouched for him in court but I have not been one of them. Michelle is his friend. Isn't he allowed to have any friends? Guilty or not he sill has value as a person and a Jew. Some people just want vengeance and call it justice. Or they just want cash. Either way, we will never really get to the bottom of what this is all about but one thing for sure it is not just all about helping protect kids.

As Aussie stated, no Herzog family, not Izzys or Henrys is paying anything, this is complete bullshit. They all have 0 to do with SD and Yeshivah.

This is merely an attempt by someone trying to hijack this forum to run a vendetta on the whole cbd saga.

Posted by: Truth: Herzog Family | May 16, 2012 at 09:41 PM

Indeed there are a lot of assholes on this blog who post a lot of lies and constantly try to hijack threads....

There is no way that Herzog or anyone else is paying or advising that legal aid stiff that Cyprys has defending him....
I watched him in action last week....He's as useless as tits on a bull....

The whole joke is thst Glick himself was a notorious abuser. when I was at yeshivah college, he woul get off by emotionally abusing kids and embarassing them publicly in a cruel and sadistic manner.

Posted by: harry | May 16, 2012 at 05:05 AM

Yet another asshole who posts lies to work an agenda...

Glick and I never saw eye to eye...We were at war my whole time at yeshivah....
But I never saw Glick abuse anyone...And credit where it's due....Glick was the best teacher there by far....

Time Shmarya booted these assholes flooding the threads with their lies....

Back on topic for those interested....

Decision will be given in court at 9.30AM Monday...
A large number of media is expected to be there....

Aussie, this entire saga is like a perfect storm with many different groups of people who each have their own personal agendas and interests all using this for their own selfish ends. One group wants vengeance against the yeshivah, another wants vengeance against religious Jews or Lubavitch, and some people want notoriety and or money. Only a very small minority of those on this bandwagon are there with the pure intent to protect kids. If they were then they would not be going about things in a way that threatens to greatly damage or destroy a great Jewish educational system that hundreds of Jewish kids need. If they had pure motives they would think twice before working to jail a Jew and destroy his life and the lives of his innocent children. If so they would not be treating SD as if he were a monster.

The man raped children!! He needs to be punished. It has nothing to do with politics or cash. It has to do with FINALLY doing the right thing! What about his victims don't they have a right to feel some relief from this horror?? He broke the law.He took away innocence.Unfortunately he does have children of his own who will suffer as a result of having such a man as a father.Personally if I was a child and my father liked touching children ( "cured" or not) I would like him locked up and far far away from me.

How do we know he raped children? Is this mob rule here? Will jailing him accomplish anything good? Think about this. He gets put away for a number of years ruining his life and his kids too. One day he gets out. Will he be rehabilitated then? I doubt it. He will be even worse and might really harm someone then.
Do you think he would have the stupidity to offend now after all this? No chance in hell.

By all accounts he is a wonderful father adored by his kids.

I don't think you are getting the point I was making so I am probably wasting my breath. However I will give it one last try... He has 50 CHARGES against him!!! Does he have to rape a kid in front of you for you to understand that he has done the wrong thing and needs to be punished??

Pirkei Avot: It’s called Justice…. and probably part of his sentence will be some sort of ongoing therapy that hopefully will at the very least teach him Empathy for those he has abused.
Stupidity to re-offend? Are you serious? Wasn't he stupid enough to abuse in the first instance? I do not believe someone like that will even be reformed - just not possible. And re-abuse and re-abuse, even when he came close to getting caught – he still chose to re-offend. Sick mind like that will not ever be reformed. Better they lock him up indefinitely! If I saw him in the street, I would spit at his feet! ZERO sympathy for something he consciously chose to do again and again.
If it were my child – I would be the one up on manslaughter charges – I would choke the life and soul right out of him with my bare hands.
I’m not one to rejoice in seeing another Jew suffer – But I believe with a great deal of conviction that he should be punished and he should be shunned by all in the community. He should be cast out – what he did was unforgivable – stealing innocence is an unforgivable SIN.
As far as his children go – again the fact he did what he did – goes to show he didn’t take them into account at all. They are better off without him. I hope they are taken away from him altogether. I would hope to G-d he didn’t abuse them, but either way – he deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law. Very sad for his children, but it’s not the fault or responsibly of the victims to even consider them – The children are suffering and will forever suffer because of the choices their FATHER made.
So, the longer he spends away from children the longer they are out of danger and are by anyone’s standard – Better off!
He made choices to abuse and abuse and abuse. Raping young boys – stealing their innocent – he needs to be punished and the victims deserve Justice – We live by many laws, but as Jews we need to live and abide by the law of the land first and foremost. Raping boys or children is NOT OK!
I’m sure to open a bottle of wine on Monday for a La’Hayim after he is indicted to stand trial!

People to NOT stand up in court and say they were RAPED if it never happened. Not the amount that have come forward. Mob rule? I think you are misinformed and ignorant – I hope you can get past your ignorance and also have some EMPATHY for the victim of these heinous crimes. I don’t know all of the victims – but I would support those 100% in fighting for Justice. I hope you see sense and offer some heartfelt compassion for the victims.

None of us are in a position to determine anything as fact or fiction. The law works in weird ways. 50 charges could cover one or two incidents or many. Charges are brought and dropped in courts all the time. Charges can be trumped up too. Another point, ever hear of what goes on commonly in boarding schools? Boys experiment and that does not make it pedophilia but they often go through stages and outgrow that. I find it interesting that there are no more charges after SD was 23, his therapists say he is reformed, there are heaps of people who like him and give him the benefit of the doubt, and his family and kids adore him. Revenge is not a Jewish trait or value. The past cannot be changed and it is fair to say that yeshivah and the community have also reformed and this kind of thing is not likely to go unnoticed in the future, you can bet your bottom dollar on that!

Perkei Avot... you are right. 20 years ago, some gay 8 year old seducted him hoping that when they were adults they would not only be able to take him to court, but also to sue the Yeshiva for millions of dollars. The real victim is obviously SD who deserves protection from all these anti-Chabad types that are motivated by selfishness and agendas.

Pirkei Avot

You seem to be a little too close to SD and his children. Me thinks you may have your own agenda for not wanting him to go to prison!!

Some people want to have it both ways. If SD is guilty he is either an evil monster who has total control over his actions and decided to choose evil or he is a sick man who cannot control his sick impulses. Which is it? It cannot be both. If he is sick then we should have pity on him and throwing him in jail will not help him or anyone. If he is evil then maybe you would like to put him in front of a firing squad along with all the Vaad enablers? Would you like to be one of the shooters? And then you can spit on their corpses and wouldn't that be geshamk! Would you feel there was 'justice' then?

Again showing your ignorance PA - A "therapists" said he was cured. Oh so it should be all ok then - What a load of Crap!
Not even a highly skilled psychiatrist would give such a guarantee.

I guess in ignorance is bliss in your world.

Re the charges - when it comes to historical cases of child abuse. Its is very difficult to prove unless you can be very specific about every incident.

Im not anti anything except ignorance and tolerance for abuse in any way shape or form.

If that makes me anti Lubi then I wear that with pride.

What the heads of Yeshiva did by not protecting or taking the reports seriously - they deserve to be shut down altogether.

I hope the civil suit will finish them off!

Typical unprofessional / non transparent / corrupt and nepotistic organizations have now place in our society!

Smacks of the Melbourne Beth Din a few years ago and I know that R' Groner was also into protecting a sexually harassing Rabbi for years.

Abuse of power should never be rewarded or supported by Jew or Non Jew alike.

@lionking You are full of it! Stick to the topic unless you have something true or relevent

(Re the charges - when it comes to historical cases of child abuse. Its is very difficult to prove unless you can be very specific about every incident.)

Exactly my point! Charges shmarges, don't mean a darned thing and don't make them true.

(People to NOT stand up in court and say they were RAPED if it never happened.)

Really???? People have lied and exaggerated in court about being abused for a myriad of reasons. Get real.

I suspect that PA is very close to SD. What purpose would it serve to send him to jail?

There is only one purpose - Justice for those that were abused!

PITY WE DON'T HAVE CORPORAL PUNISHMENT FOR THESE SORTS OF HEINOUS CRIMES

To dismiss his actions by saying he might have been a victim himself is disgusting! Its all about choices - choices he made to abuse a child/ren...

If you do not prosecute people accused of molesting then what disincentive is there to stop molesters doing whatever they want?

Should I be allowed to go to your place and steal everything because I am a nice guy?

but these are incurable evil monsters then short of killing them nothing will be a disincentive but if they are sick then jailing them will make them worse.

FYI Torah law is not about jailing. If you steal then you have to give it back. We see in our society that jails are not the solution to crime and just creates more criminals.

Pirkei Avot,

The whole idea that since someone is no longer a threat, they don't deserve punishment is misguided at best.

What about Nazi War Criminals - who by the 1990's were old and harmless - would you argue that such a person on the loose shouldn't be held to trial and punishment if they were caught in the 1990's??

Not that I'm comparing DC's alleged crimes with those of Nazis, but the point remains.

Were they Jews? Totally different.

Pirkei Avot,

I wonder how you would feel if SD had interfered inappropriately with your own children?

I wouldn't mind betting you would want to cut off his vital parts!!!


Mickey Mouse, I don't know. None of this has easy answers but a lynch mob is not the way to go. Are we to let our emotions rule us? Do we cut off someone's organ because we feel like it? A fellow Jew is my brother and I have to love him. If he is sick I need to have pity. At the same time we need to protect innocent children. What I do know is that we have to use our minds not our hearts.

Pirkei Avot,

I hope you are not seriously suggesting that in a secular society the justice system should treat Jews differently?

Pirkei Avot,

You are not thinking about the victims at all. I suspect you are using your heart and not your mind as far as SD is concerned and it's obvious you have your own agenda to promote him as a really nice guy.

Hope you are not going to be really disappointed when the "nice-guy" facade wears off.

Dave, I am suggesting we have real ahavas yisroel and refrain from turning into a lynch mob against our fellow Jews who have transgressed. I am suggesting we cease from believing the lies from media outlets not sympathetic to us. I am suggesting we stop believing every bit of gossip we hear in shule. I am suggesting we react with our minds and not our hearts. Why ear down an institution that does so much good because it made errors? Can't it improve? Do you have another to replace it with? And if not then what of all the hundreds of children that will be hurt by its loss?

Mickey Mouse,
I don't think you are a caring person and you could care less about how disappointed I may become. Your posts suggest your motivation is hatred with a bit of vague concern about victims but the hatred and the glee in burying a fellow Jew really comes shining through.

How will hypothetically the victims benefit by putting him in jail?

If he is found guilty, which is quite possible I admit, I still would not treat him like a monster. Which one of us has not transgressed?

Mickey Mouse,
You are the one not thinking about the potential victims, the Cyprus family including two innocent kids, and the hundreds of yeshivah children who may be without a Jewish school should this lead to lawsuits that could destroy it.

How do we know he raped children? Is this mob rule here? Will jailing him accomplish anything good? Think about this. He gets put away for a number of years ruining his life and his kids too. One day he gets out. Will he be rehabilitated then?
Posted by: Pirkei Avot | May 16, 2012 at 11:17 PM

We know he raped at least one child under the age of 16...This came out in court...

And who says he will ever get out of jail??...And who says he will ever have the chance to be in contact with kids again??....

There is still so much you don't know....Then again you being a yeshivah apologist and pedophile sympathiser means you do know the truth but won't admit it...

And one more thing you got wrong....There is not a shred of evidence that this has anything to do with money...

If he is found guilty, which is quite possible I admit, I still would not treat him like a monster. Which one of us has not transgressed?

Posted by: Pirkei Avot | May 17, 2012 at 02:23 AM

So 12 kids which he groomed then molested and raped does not make him a monster?????....

So how many kids must it be for him to be declared a monster by you??....20??...30??...50??...

News flash scumbag....He will be found guilty and he will likely get 15-18years....

Easy to do name calling. You must have been in court because this was a closed court unless you are just spreading more gossip

"Why ear down an institution that does so much good because it made errors? Can't it improve? Do you have another to replace it with? And if not then what of all the hundreds of children that will be hurt by its loss?
Posted by: Pirkei Avot | May 17, 2012 at 02:01 AM "

Nothing can or will improve if the same 'powers that be' continue to operate in the manner in which they do. Each of the individuals on the CoM and Trustees (under the misguided banner of Chabad Shlichut) believe it is their g-d given right to dictate what is good for others, to the extent that there is NO succession plan other than an obvious expectation that each will place their own children next at the healm.

When will the 'powers that be' realise that Gen-Y & Gen-Z operate on a completely different paradigm, do not carry the guilt of yester-gen (like it or not), and are willing to go the extra mile at any expense. Yeridah Le'tzurich Aliyah right?
Look at the unimaginable Arab Spring.......do the 'powers that be' think they are immune? Do they under estimate the younger generations’ stubbornness and determination?
It is not a question of if, but when and how these nuff nuffs are toppled.
Let them at least have the self respect to go out in style!

Any suggestion to do with Herzog involvement in this entire episode is ABSOLUTELY FACTUALLY BASELESS.

It is simply NOT TRUE.

Easy to do name calling. You must have been in court because this was a closed court unless you are just spreading more gossip

Posted by: Pirkei Avot | May 17, 2012 at 02:47 AM

It was reported on in the media you twit...And yes I was at court....

is the bold gone?

how about now

Any suggestion to do with Herzog involvement in this entire episode is ABSOLUTELY FACTUALLY BASELESS.

It is simply NOT TRUE.

Posted by: Nerdy Ferdy | May 17, 2012 at 03:07 AM

The only finantial help Cyprys has had is when someone put up the 50K surety for his bail....

We the tax payers are the only ones paying for his legal defence...

@Steven....Shmarya will likely fix the bold...

How will hypothetically the victims benefit by putting him in jail?

Posted by: Pirkei Avot | May 17, 2012 at 02:11 AM

Other then closure they will not....Unless they decide to sue Yeshivah and maybe Glick personally...

But you missing the whole point here....This is all about Yeshivah being accountable and changing their ways.....Groner was wrong....So was Glick....The law must be obeyed which means that the police must be called in and most of all the kids must be protected no matter what....

The only way to make this happen is to expose yeshivah, groner and Glick.....Cyprys going to jail is just a part of that process....

How will hypothetically the victims benefit by putting him in jail?

Posted by: Pirkei Avot | May 17, 2012 at 02:11 AM

How do murder victims benefit from putting murders in jail?

Paedophilia is incurable. Lets ask the boy who was raped before and on his 16th birthday if he thinks Cyprys should be kept out of jail,just because his kids adore him, as Pirkei Avot, alleges. If I go shoot my neighbour and rape his kids, should I be kept out of jail just because someone loves me??!! And does PA think that 53 charges from 12 different victims are all a collaboarative effort??!! Pa are you Pinni Fleischer?

I'm only writing because this case is receiving so much attention this week and I don't know the victims or the accused and have never been affiliated with yeshiva so I'm an apologist for no-one.

While obviously if the allegations are true, (and with 11 or 12 alleged victims it would seem like they are) then this is a terrible thing that has occurred and the truth must come out (and there are supposedly many more but it seems from what I've heard that the offenses were committed a long time ago by a young messed up man.

if he has really not re-offended from 23 till his 40s and he is now married with children i don't see what 18 years in prison will achieve except to ruin his and his families life.

the victims should be compensated, yeshiva and its rabbis should be sued for covering up what has occurred. Surely there can be no comparison between a mentally ill youngster and the leadership of the community. The learned rabbis, the teachers who we trusted our children with should have been trained and have had the children's' best interests at heart. I never sent any kids to yeshiva nor did i ever consider it but these scandals do not seem to be as rife in public schools. All I hear is catholic and orthodox Jewish institutions involved. Maybe this has something to do with the way the sexes are separated at a young age. Normal activities such as courting women or even masturbation are discouraged leaving the boys from this system confused???

These heinous crimes must be reported and the perpetrators punished. im defftinatly not defending this guy. Hes clearly done some sick things allegedly but i see hes being called a karate teacher and mentor to the boys when it seems none of the crimes happened in this role. Basically to summarise did he commit these crimes in the capacity of someone with responsibility who should have been protecting kids or was he himself a 16-23 year old during the alleged offenses who was probably abused himself and did some disgusting things that he has now been reformed of.

i have no idea what cyprys is saying but if his therapists of many years are saying he is not a risk then obviously he should still be monitored and not left alone with children but if he admits responsibility and has genuine remorse for his disgusting actions of many years ago that is one thing and i'm sure it will be good for his victims to confront him. i believe this is what therapists would advise victims of sexual abuse however if in the face of overwhelming evidence he still does not show remorse then i feel differently about him or if it comes out that he has re-offended then even his own children will not be safe with him and he should be locked up.

Astounded

You are out of date. Cyprys used to go out with Pinni Flescher. His new partner is Michelle Coleman, who is Executive Director of the JCCV. I think that she is Pirkei Avot

Sal

Cyprys has been divorcedd for 5 years. I wonder why!!! His new partner is Michelle Coleman. I wonder why!!!!!

Sal, You say," Hes clearly done some sick things allegedly but i see hes being called a karate teacher and mentor to the boys when it seems none of the crimes happened in this role". I know of someone who has not come forward. He used to attend karate classes as a boy at Elwood Shule and it was there that Cyprys made an attempt on him, pulling him into a classroom nearby.
Who knows how many others there are like this.
Astounded.
Astounded.

if he has really not re-offended from 23 till his 40s and he is now married with children i don't see what 18 years in prison will achieve except to ruin his and his families life.

Posted by: sal | May 17, 2012 at 07:35 AM

Who says he didn't offend past age 23??....And who says he will ONLY do 18 years jail??....

Never smart to draw a conclusion when you only have a small part of the story...))

Pa are you Pinni Fleischer?

Posted by: Astounded | May 17, 2012 at 05:22 AM

I think that PA is Joe Slater....(-_-)....

( I know of someone who has not come forward. He used to attend karate classes (as a boy at Elwood Shule and it was there that Cyprys made an attempt on him, pulling him into a classroom nearby.
Who knows how many others there are like this.)

yeah same thing happened to me but it was Tony Abbott and not Cyprus. Hearsay, stories, rumours, I heard......means nothing

according to many meforshim pirkei avot = the fifth chelek of shulchan aruch.

you do the math and i think youll find the answer is emmanual.

So Pirkei Avot, you're saying then that unless someone rapes a child in front of your very eyes you don't believe them, right?! I hopeit nevcer happens to your own child, what a lousy parent you must be.
Astounded

So Astounded, you believe and spread rechilis of every bit of shmutz you hear then you must be a lousy Jew. Mob rule is fine by you. Anyone can say or write anything.
The previous comment by sal makes the most sense so far.

ea sorry i mean pa .... well go with your opinion for now as long as you change your tune when the foreman reads out the verdict .... "and what say you mr foreman.... we find the defendant guilty your honour ...." just like on law and order ...

then you change your tune and apologize to every victim who you have not given the proper respect to and every victim you have doubted.

I fear Pirkei Avot doth protest too much. Justice, real justice, is not just about punishment but also about deterrence to others and generally holding people to account for their actions and the consequences of their actions.

The notion of mob rule is a complete furphy. SD has a fair hearing, that's no more or less than he is entitled to, and it's a lot more than his victims got.

If PA has evidence that anyone has lied in court, then PA better produce that quickly for investigation - put up or shut up.

And another thing PA: now that you have indicated that SD's "therapists say he is reformed" (which is irrelevant anyway), you need to produce those opinions. Those therapeutic opinions are now no longer confidential, so let's have them. I bet you'll find that's not what they say at all.

Pirkei Yeladim, More than he is entitled to? So you do not believe each citizen is entitled to a fair hearing because of their presumed guilt? What the hell system is that? The vile media hype makes a fair hearing impossible. I have as much evidence as you do, no more no less so you produce yours first. If his therapists do indeed say he is not reformed then yes, I will change my view. I have no obligation to apologise to anyone for anything because I did not harm anyone. I believe that there are halachos against loshon hora and so on.
We live in a society these days in which anyone can call anyone an abuser and be believed. The pendulum has swung too far in that extreme. All of you who are so quick to crucify someone based on hearsay had better hope they are never on the other end. Secular psychology is limited and often wrong (they believe being gay is normal now too) and not based on Torah

I didn't say he is not entitled to a fair hearing. What is your basis for describing the evidence as hearsay? What do you know? What are you concealing?

I didn't suggest you needed to apologise, but if you know something then your failure to assist with the investigations makes you liable as a co-conspirator.

But I know this is meaningless to you because on the one hand you say that "secular psychology is limited and often wrong...and not based on Torah" but you are quite happy to rely on the (undoubtedly psychological) opinions of SD's therapists. You've added absolutely nothing to the discussion here and are an apologist for those who perpetuate evil and twist religion to rationalise your views. And that makes you just as vile and abhorrent as those who do these sick things in the first place.

Well said Pirkei Yeladim. All we hear from Pirkei Avot is mob rule, conspiracy theories blah blah blah.. So according to PA 12 victims and 53 charges are all hearsay, mob mentality. How insane.
Astounded

Guys,

Where do you think Pirkei Avot is getting his/her ideas from? It is obvious Pirkei Avot is extremely close to SD and he has fed him/her with all these ideas about mob rule, witch hunt, hearsay, therapists' reports bla, bla and he/she believes it because he/she desperately wants it to be true. Sad don't you think?

Aussie: Is Joe Slater still as "big" as when he was at school?

I really don't think that it is relevant, it's more like a cheap shot.

Are you still a bully Dave?

BeenThere: To those of us who don't particularly like Joe Slater, it is very relevant.

I know of him as well, and whether you like him or not, his girth is irrelevant, and you are a bully.

So anyone who comments on another's substantial weight is a bully?

You're a bully for unjustifiably calling me a bully!

I apologise for calling you a bully, I was too kind.

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