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March 13, 2012

BREAKING! Infected Mohel Still Sucks

Bris milahMohel linked to metzitzah b’peh death and brain damage is still sucking newborn babies’ penises during circumcisions, despite a state ban against him.

Bris milah

Infected Mohel Still Sucks
Mohel linked to metzitzah b’peh death and brain damage is still sucking newborn babies’ penises during circumcision despite a state ban against him

Writing in The Jewish Week, Hella Winston reports that Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer is still doing metzitzah b’peh (MBP), direct oral-to-genital suction, as part of the brises he performs, despite being prohibited from doing so by the New York State Department of Health.

Fischer was directly linked to Herpes Simplex 1 infections given to infants by MBP in 2003 and 2004. One infant died, another was sickened but recovered, and a third was sickened and permanently brain damaged from the infection.

Fischer was linked to another MBP infection in 2007 and was banned from doing MBP by the state health department.

But Fischer has apparently been violating that ban with impunity – in part because it appears the ban was never made public.

Fischer was also banned in 2005 by New York City after the media broke the story of the MBP death and infections. Fischer did not comply with the ban, so the city sued him. But in an apparent political deal with Satmar and Agudath Israel of America along with other haredi groups, the city withdrew the lawsuit and moved the case to a beit din, haredi Jewish religious court.

The state also prohibited Fischer in 2005 from performing MBP, but it lifted its ban almost immediately when Jacob Spitzer, a hasidic businessman and power broker associated with Revival Home Health Care, assured the state that the haredi community had instituted standards and was policing itself.

The Jewish Week also reports that the circumcision protocols – which featured a recommendation that the mohel rinse his mouth with whisky or mouthwash immediately before performing MBP on the baby as a form of infectious disease control – worked out between Agudath Israel of America and Satmar on one hand and the New York State Department of Health on the other and adopted in 2006, were rescinded by the state in 2007. The protocols had been ridiculed by scientists and medical professionals who pointed out that a mohel rinsing out his mouth with wine, whisky or mouthwash immediately before doing MBP provided no assurance the virus would not be transferred to the baby.

The Jewish Week has a taped conversation with Fischer made within the past two weeks in which Fischer agrees to do MBP on a child:

At one point during the phone conversation, the caller asks to be reassured by Rabbi Fischer about metzitzah b’peh.

“It’s perfectly OK,” Rabbi Fischer answers, and then goes on to claim that the recently reported death of an infant in September from a herpes simplex 1 infection was mistakenly reported to the public as being the result of metzitzah b’peh. He added that “the baby’s death had nothing to do with the mohel.”

“The baby passed away on Rosh HaShanah,” the mohel continued, claiming “it took five months for the health department to convince the medical examiner to add the words ‘oral suction’ to the cause of death. The medical examiner did not want to do it … but the newspapers picked it up and it was enough to make the issue.”

When asked by The Jewish Week about Rabbi Fischer’s claims, Ellen Borakove, director of public affairs for the chief medical examiner of New York City said, “Let me tell you that that cause of death was the way it was back in September. It was finalized [shortly after the death].”

The Jewish Week's Exclusive Report.

Comments

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This sucks!

OMFG! Shmarya that header is hysterical! Well punned! You're quite the cut-up!

Where is his picture!!!
Sick pedophile who can't break his habit????

if this is true and any baby died he should be charged with murder OMG imagine if was the mohel in the latest case then satmar and Agudath should be charged with accessory or whatever charge can be legally applied

un-sucking-believable!!


love the headline.

jail this evil pig.

I assume there is a warrant out for his arrest. Looking forward to seeing him being locked up.

And we should be surprised because....?

Yes, why isn't he under arrest and under a court order prohibiting him from doing this?

No jokes on this one.

He needs to be arrested IMMEDIATELY. No bail. And charged with Murder 1, aggravated assault & whatever else they can throw at him.

Ditto for Jacob Spitzer for aiding & abetting.

And any Rabbi or other Gadol who vouched for this psycho, knowing his medical history, needs to be arrested & charged as well.

No "but he didn't understand..." or "it's not fair..." or "They didn't really prove it..." or "it's our Minhag" BS.

Killing is killing. Harming is harming. Causing grievous, permanent injury is causing grievous permanent injury. And doing this to infants? Words fail me...

I'm gonna go take my dogs for a walk before I loose it completely. But, knowing the TB (true believers) who will flock here to defend him & this disgusting ritual, I'll be sure to pop a valium before logging back on ...

We all know by now that they are above the law,they are a law unto themselfs and also they act as usual as though they are all powerfull in short they are god its a no brainer.

""The Jewish Week also reports that the circumcision protocols – which featured a recommendation that the mohel rinse his mouth with whisky or mouthwash immediately before performing MBP on the baby as a form of infectious disease control – worked out between Agudath Israel of America and Satmar on one hand and the New York State Department of Health on the other and adopted in 2006, were rescinded by the state in 2007.""

Strange,becuase EVERY mohel I saw rinses his mouth with whiskey or alcohol or peroxide long before the "deal" that was worked out between Agudah and Satmar and the NY DOH so i really don't know what this deal was all about.
Im not saying that rinsing helps but its a fact that mohelim did it all the years

In a recording made within the past two weeks and obtained by The Jewish Week, Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer can be heard scheduling a bris with a caller who asks him to perform metzitzah b’peh.

Posted by: Deremes | March 13, 2012 at 03:25 PM

you know it, I know it, the DOH did not know it

thats why.

deremes

whatever one thinks about MP don't you think that allowing Fisher to do it is really stupid and maybe even criminal

who asks him to perform metzitzah b’peh.

Posted by: NoMore | March 13, 2012 at 03:29 PM

my guess is someone from the Jewish week not a real inquiry

sad that we cannot say this is just a Purim story

not sure what can be done to help the babies in the future who will be endangered by MP

maybe a mass protest against this in willie and boro park will wake them up

omg

Would someone please kick this Ortho-fuck in the mouth so he can't use it to kill any more babies. While they are at it a broken arm might discourage him just a little more.

If he knows he is responsible for the horrors he has left in his wake, does he not do something about it?

Metzitzah b’peh is as much a sacred ritual to Judaism as bloodletting is to medicine. I get it: the suction could stop the bleeding in the days when people just didn't know any better. But today?!? Really?!? Is sucking the freshly cut circumcision "authentic Judaism?" Why don't we circumcise ourselves like Abraham for really authenticity? Why don't we just sit down on the ground with a sharp stone and do a little manscaping.

Only the greatest thread title ever...........

Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | March 13, 2012 at 03:54 PM

I guess the percentage goes down if MP is included

In prison, he will get to do metzizah b'peh all day long.

Shamarya

This "Sting Operation" is a stink operation. Its mesirah pure and simple. If you condone mesirah, like you did with SMR, then you are out of bounds when it comes to hakadosh baruch hu. I know you will one day want to repent. But by putting away my close friend R Fischer shlita and SMR you are becoming so far from the aibishter that, biz hundred und tzvanik he will not be mekabel even the greatest teshuva from you. Stop ruining yiddens lives with your out and out mesirah. Before its too late!

hassid -There is no bigger mesirah then youre hassidishe friends who maser and trash all the jews demean the religion you make youreself out to be holier then thou but you are nothing more then a mindless moron , youre a nobody who thinks he is a somebody,youre aibishter is an avoide zure that you invented di shoite.

The overall question here boils down to: just who is in charge? The haredim claim that the power to control their lives in all respects lies with their rabbonim, and the secular authorities have no right to interfere in their affairs, period. Even if what they are doing may endanger the lives of newborns, so be it. But they consider themselves a separate community not subject to secular law in any way, shape or form. Hence, they will do whatever they please, and the secular government be damned. From their perspective, that is the bottom line for this and all other confrontrations.

Its's sickening how little they care about the lives of children. They care more about keeping a false "minhag" or whatever alive then about newborn babies. And this mohel, who KNOWS he is responsible for a babies death, is still willingly doing it.

I would say this mohel can blow me, but I don't wanna get an STD.

Whiskey or mouthwash will not reliably prevent the virus shedding.

Antiviral medication will not completely prevent the virus shedding.

Would you eat food prepared by someone with active hepatitis with a bleeding cut on his hand?

Would you get a blood transfusion with blood from someone who has untreated HIV?

There is no earthly (nor heavenly) excuse for this.

Mary Mallon (Typhoid Mary) was placed in quarantine for the last 23 years of her life because she refused to stop working as a cook and caused 53 typhoid cases and at least 3 deaths.

If this mohel doesn't find a safer line of work, perhaps he should be quarantined.

This is why religion can't have nice things anymore

Posted by: Reb Chaim | March 13, 2012 at 04:19 PM

no they do not consider a separate community since they take food stamp section 8 and other stuff

if they want to be truly separate then do not tale any benefits of the community

Posted by: hassid | March 13, 2012 at 04:02 PM

are you really that thick

in a case like this this is a mitzvha to yell and publicize this since he is a rodef and is butting babies in danger

i did not know that mesirah trumps every other consideration in the world

the rambam does not agree with you

then again no one ever said that frum people actually know halacha.

all you know what to do it repeat a few line s here and there but have no concept of the reasoning behind it

Posted by: hassid | March 13, 2012 at 04:02 PM


Howsabout you let that mohel do MB on your children and grandchildren? You gonna let that happen?

SkepticalYid -Reasoning with hassid is like talking to the wall no different,he is so hypnotized that he is a zombie cannot think for himself whatsoever gurnisht.

Posted by: SkepticalYid | March 13, 2012 at 04:56 PM

of course he would look fisher still has customers so why would you be surprised

you have to undertsand their mindset

if chazal said to do it, then it cannot be bad or put the baby in danger.

all evidence will not convince them otherwise

The solution to it all is so simple: ban metzitzah b'peh completely. It is tragically ironic that while any am ha'aretz can write a pashkvill banning tv or the Internet or soft matzah or goyishe music or mixed seating on a bus, we don't have the leadership to make a taqanah l'tzorech sha'ah regarding MbP - this despite two reasons for doing so: health and pedophelia. Bamaqom she'ein anashim...

seymour-Just stick to the issue as some would claim that metzitzah b’peh is dangerous and can harm and kill babies and it should be banned.Those who make that claim are basing it on whatever reason they have which makes sense becuase they are concerned for the babies.
But not so with R'Seymour where time and time again you have shown that your concern is ONLY to mock chazal.Not that anyone cares but it would be nice if you would show concern for the babies and leave halacha mocking out of it.

It may not be necessary to ban it entirely if those mohels who are infected are not permitted to perform the service. However, that would make them unemployable in the Haredi world as a mohel. I seriously doubt that it would be enforced within the community.

I'm not convinced.

If it really was so dangerous, why wasn't Rabbi Fischer ever charged with a crime?

The fact is that 95% or so of people have HSV1, meaning that an infant can contract it through kissing or even through a drop of spit that falls on the baby as someone talks or coughs around it, and especially by letting its drooling siblings around it. So why don't we ban any contact with the baby period?

Well, what can be done besides write nasty comments here?

Who is this piece of filth?

Let us know his name and whereabouts.

He won't last a week.

Posted by: Deremes | March 13, 2012 at 05:16 PM

you lie again satmar it is getting a habit with you

I am not knocking chazal. I have said many times that chazal had good reason to say one should do M. In addition there really is no evidence that chazal ever said to suck with ones mouth. all chazal said was mezizha there is no mention in the gemorah peth (mouth)

I also say that I respect them that they where not idiots, on the contrary they where smart men and I am 100% positive that chazal would change their minds or if they would have know then what we know today they would have banned it in a second. since they themselves say IT IS not part of the bris, just one should do it for medical reason.

Since we know know that it is dangerous and people like you still do it, it is you who are mocking chazal and making then look like fools.

"Well, what can be done besides write nasty comments here?

Who is this piece of filth?

Let us know his name and whereabouts.

He won't last a week.

Posted by: Litvish | March 13, 2012 at 05:27 PM "

I believe that you can be arrested and jailed for making such comments.

abcdef- No one asks the baby for permission i would ban brit also if it would be up to me the way they do it today its babaric no anesthetics its insane i am 100 per cent sure if at youre age you would not let brit done to you without anesthetics youre a big big fool it is anomalistic to do mp on a baby in a normal country you would be commited into a lunatic asylem just for brit milla.

in other news, generallismo francisco franco is still dead.

Jancsapista,

Where are your usual comments about finding the IP and having people like Litvish arrested?

He's calling for the murder of a person. Much worse than calling PearlPerry a whore for fucking half of Lakewood.

Where is your "outrage"? Is your outrage selective?

I believe that you can be arrested and jailed for making such comments.

Posted by: abcdef
===
Sorry. I will not be available to avail myself of your kind invitation.

If you want, I can call in the meds for you so that you can make it for a few more days.

Are you allergic to any medications?

Thorazine would be my first choice but, of course, we would have to see if your insurance will cover it.

Yours in Christ Jesus.

Lubavitchers are Christians -Litvish is a great person in my oppinion and you are a mental case go get help.

Shmarya, I'm waiting for the lab results that show R' Fisher actually hav the virus.

The autopsy sounds convincing, I know that you can find out what the baby died from, but can you prove from it where the virus came from?

What will you do if he agrees to get tested and they discover that he doesn't carry the virus?

Great reporting from Hella Winston, Hella Winston was the first to expose to us how Deborah Feldman fabricated her stories.

I'm not convinced.

If it really was so dangerous, why wasn't Rabbi Fischer ever charged with a crime?

The fact is that 95% or so of people have HSV1, meaning that an infant can contract it through kissing or even through a drop of spit that falls on the baby as someone talks or coughs around it, and especially by letting its drooling siblings around it. So why don't we ban any contact with the baby period?

Posted by: abcdef | March 13, 2012 at 05:21 PM


You're really into putting your ignorance on display. The difference is that the saliva was introduced into an open bleeding wound. Can you make sense of that?

In case anyone is interested in contacting him, Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer's website is: http://www.bris-milah.com/   or call him toll free:   1(800) FOR-BRIS. 1(800) 367-2747  

Shamya The Jewish week really messed this one up. I have seen him do countless brissim in the last few years and he alwayshas aa Assistant doing the metzitza.

"Sorry. I will not be available to avail myself of your kind invitation.

If you want, I can call in the meds for you so that you can make it for a few more days.

Are you allergic to any medications?

Thorazine would be my first choice but, of course, we would have to see if your insurance will cover it.

Yours in Christ Jesus.

Posted by: Litvish | March 13, 2012 at 05:53 PM "

Why not call in some homeopathic remedies for me, since you believe in them so much. I'm sure they will be just as effective as plain water, thank you.

Posted by: Litvish | March 13, 2012 at 05:53 PM "

A physician who believes in the myth of homeopathy is a moron, indeed.

In case anyone is interested in contacting him, Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer's website is: ************ or call him toll free: *********. 1(800) *******

Posted by: Rebitzman | March 13, 2012 at 06:41 PM

Shmarya, you should remove that comment. It smacks of encouraging people to harass someone.

People, people--get a grip.

1. For those of you who just hate Orthodox Jews, you know where you can go. You don't give a damn about justice for babies. You're just glad you now have another bashing excuse.

2. Dealing with this issue is like the U.S. military dealing with the Iraqi locals in the beginning of the war--first they got it wrong, and then they eventually got it right.

What I mean by that is that most Jews, especially the Orthodox or "Haredi," will react emotionally to any legitimate probe of ritual practices with "Oh no! They're coming to get us!" (Unfortunately, there's good reason for this fear; see, History, Jewish.) As such, the same way the U.S. military first failed to win over locals, but then succeeded using the classic counterinsurgency strategy of bringing the insurgents into your ranks, New York's state authorities should have worked out a medical protocol that would have not seemed like an attack on circumcision at all but would have worked with mohalim and doctors to both prevent herpes simplex and allow MBP (maybe something like mohalim required to test themselves for the virus all the time and stand down and send a substitute if it showed up, or some other arrangement that would have worked).

Now, I'm not going to defend the flouting of the law. I'm just saying that had all parties involved understood the thinking of the other side--both the "we-don't-have-to-listen-to-the-goyim-'cause-they're-just-out-to-get-us" mentality and the genuine concern for public health and infant safety, this would not have happened.

3. Also, let's remember that thousands of Orthodox Jewish babies are circumcised each year, including many with MBP, so statistically, this is a very, very small problem.

Of course, for the poor parents of the three affected babies, it's anything but a small problem, but let's keep things in context and proportion here--and remember that however noble our motivations here, we must tread carefully, because otherwise, an age-old (and overwhelmingly safe) Jewish ritual that our ancestors fought tooth and nail to defend and keep will come under attack (and is already).

So in raising moral objections to the behavior of one individual, let's not do the anti-Semites' work for them.

Mendy, there are three confirmed cases that you acknowledge. We don't' know how many cases exist that were never detected or diagnosed. You're attempt to obfuscate that issue and use the typical canard about anti-semitism and anti-Orthodoxy is inappropriate. Unless every mohel is tested for any and all potentially life threatening oral microbes on a regular and frequent basis, the practice shouldn't be allowed.

The solution to it all is so simple: ban metzitzah b'peh completely.

Posted by: Lo K'darkah | March 13, 2012 at 05:07 PM

Just what does it mean to "ban" it. Will they be monitoring brisim? Just look what the article says.

At one point during the call, the caller asks Rabbi Fischer, “We’re frum yidden [religious Jews], I want to do metzitzah b’peh, it’s not a problem?”

The mohel does not do MBP unless they are instructed by the child's parents. How does one stop that? If anything the parents are at least as culpable as the mohel.

NoMore - i agree with you 100 per cent the parents are to fault also.

The phone call does not prove he will do the metzita himself. I have seen him delegate it to a assistant.

@Mendy

The State of New York sued to make this man stop performing brit milah until it could be established that he was or was not the source of the herpes virus that killed this (and at least one other) baby. They deferred to a bet din that promised to do exactly that (make sure he was "clean"). To date, there is no evidence that they have done so.

That's not Orthodox bashing - that's a public health issue.

What will your opinion be if he is finally forced to be tested (as the bet din agreed he would be) ad it turns out that he does in fact carry this virus?

How is it that thousands of viable but not-yet-born babies are aborted/killed every day in the US and that's okay? Why no outcry?

1. For those of you who just hate Orthodox Jews,..... You're just glad you now have another bashing excuse.

I wonder, MH, is the Moyel a normative Orthodox Jew, is those idiots behaviour Jewish? or folly?

How is it that thousands of viable but not-yet-born babies are aborted/killed every day in the US and that's okay? Why no outcry?

Posted by: abcdef | March 13, 2012 at 07:26 PM

1. There's quite a bit of outcry
2. Your comment is totally irrelevant. It's just an attempt at distraction from the issue.
3. Many Rebbeim have suggested that a Jew should support elective abortion for everyone in the U.S. The reasoning being: that if "goyim" can't have any abortions, Jews won't be able to have halachically acceptable abortions. In other words: support abortion choice. We don't care if thousands of gentile unborn babies die, so long as it protects the rights of Jews to have halachically acceptable abortions.

In a recording made within the past two weeks and obtained by The Jewish Week, Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer can be heard scheduling a bris with a caller who asks him to perform metzitzah b’peh.

Posted by: NoMore | March 13, 2012 at 03:29 PM

Was that a bris he was scheduling or was someone responding to his ad in the back of the village voice?

So much idiocy, so little time. It's painful in it's incoherence. Yoohoo, Mendy, there are statistically few murders of people named Mendy too. It's completely preventable, but the odds are low so bye bye Mendy.

Anonoymous Child Abuse and Maltreatment Reporting for New York State : 800.342.3720

In a article in the "Foward" posted in 2005
it quotes the following:

"
Rabbi Hillel Weinberger, chief rabbi of the kashrus division of the Satmer-run Monsey-based Central Rabbinical Council, told the Forward that Tendler “went against [Fischer], and went to the authorities against him.”

Weinberger said that Tendler “didn’t handle [the situation] like a rabbi is supposed to do.”
The Satmar leader also said that he has seen test results, which indicate Fischer is free of herpes."


I don't know if this is true, but if it is indeed then Shmarya and all the other believers are guilty of slandering Mohel Fisher.

Did Shmarya also see the results since 2005?
If so please post them so we can see who is telling the TRUTH!

I expect the intelligent people of this forum all do their own research corroborating the news articles they read. If so you would know that no permanent "ban" was ever imposed on Mr. Fischer and that there is no law that he can be violating by simply doing oral suction on a surcumcised child unless he knowingly participates in transmitting a virus or other disease to the child. You would also know that there was never any evidence presented in a court of law proving that he was infected at any time. And you would know that this is not braking news by any stretch of the imagination being that he has been administering oral suction for years and in public. All the best forumites.

Whatever you do, don't buy gribenes from a mohel.

That sounded awful, like a threat. I want you, Mendy, to think. How could you possibly mean what you say? How can you possibly not want to save the life of your kinderlach, favoring the fetid mouth of a sick man instead? You are without empathy and common sense. You don't get to decide whether you are a good Jew. The rest of the Jews do and we don't all rationalize baby killing.

Shmarya, I'm waiting for the lab results that show R' Fisher actually hav the virus.

The autopsy sounds convincing, I know that you can find out what the baby died from, but can you prove from it where the virus came from?

What will you do if he agrees to get tested and they discover that he doesn't carry the virus?

Posted by: Exposing Lies | March 13, 2012 at 06:17 PM

Weinberger said that Tendler “didn’t handle [the situation] like a rabbi is supposed to do.”
The Satmar leader also said that he has seen test results, which indicate Fischer is free of herpes."


I don't know if this is true, but if it is indeed then Shmarya and all the other believers are guilty of slandering Mohel Fisher.

Did Shmarya also see the results since 2005?
If so please post them so we can see who is telling the TRUTH!

Posted by: Exposing Lies | March 13, 2012 at 08:09 PM

Process.

As the my post and the JW article CLEARLY states, Fischer was banned again in 2007 after infecting another baby with herpes.

Past the extremely obvious, if a mohel linked to MBP herpes simplex 1 transmission refuses to be tested, is it your position that he should be allowed to continue to do MBP?

If so, what do you base that stupidity on?

I'm not convinced.

If it really was so dangerous, why wasn't Rabbi Fischer ever charged with a crime?

The fact is that 95% or so of people have HSV1, meaning that an infant can contract it through kissing or even through a drop of spit that falls on the baby as someone talks or coughs around it, and especially by letting its drooling siblings around it. So why don't we ban any contact with the baby period?

Posted by: abcdef | March 13, 2012 at 05:21 PM

It's been a very long time since anyone except a for an occasional batlan has told you you're smart, hasn't it?

Was the last person to tell you that your mother?

Or did she prefer not to lie to you?

How is it that thousands of viable but not-yet-born babies are aborted/killed every day in the US and that's okay? Why no outcry?

Posted by: abcdef | March 13, 2012 at 07:26 PM

Interesting argument!

Halakha notes that before 40 days of gestation, the fetus is like water, it's nothing and there is no problem aborting it.

Do you mean to say that halakha is wrong?

Or do you only refer to abortions done after 40 days?

If so, there are a whole series of medical and psychological reasons halakha permits abortion of fetuses older than 40 days – even of babies in the process of birth.

Are you including them or excluding them?

And the science determining the 40 day mark appears to actually be incorrect. We have so many diagnostic tools today like ultrasounds and other scans, intense magnification, etc., that show that. Even so, halakha continues to hold by the 40 day statement (which, BTW, some rabbis extend even further based on the wording and the actual known science at the time).

I take it you want to keep the "40 day" exception and all the other exceptions halakha has , including the biggest exception of them all – the fetus is not considered to be a life in halakha until it's head has exited the birth canal and is visible outside the mother's body. So abortion would not be murder except in the most extreme cases of partial birth abortion.

And that would mean there is no direct parallel between abortion and babies dying or becoming sicked and maimed by MBP.

Or do you just mean that you're not very bright, that you don't know medical halakha, and that you are, well, what you are?

Posted by: Exposing Lies | March 13, 2012 at 08:09 PM

he refused to be tested

and if what the satmat guy would even be remotely true all they have to do is post the results on the web

they have not done that

i assume they are lying

won't be the first time

remember we are dealing with people who protect rebbies who molest children so this is not shocking behavior at all.

They lied to and said the rebbie will not teach again and guess what a year or two latter he was teaching again

Kneejerk Judiasm is an amazing thing. People stampede over each other to defend a practice that puts countless babies at risk. It seems like the reputation of a single Rabbi is more important the future of what is unquestionably the most innocent.

Doctors and dentists have been sent to jail for transmitting herpes and HIV to patients. Even without prior knowledge that they had the disease(s).

All of the defenders should be made to stand in line and give this Rabbi a nice long french kiss. And then do the same with every member of your immediate family.

At A.Nuran:

I generally agree with most of your comments, but could you please clarify what you mean by religion can't have "nice things?" The way I look at it, this is a product of the ultra-orthodox mindset: All the goyim are evil, and if our rabbis say it it must be true." They're trapped in the 15th century where they used to think that MBP was healthy. Doesn't make what they're doing any less reprehensible, or any less deserving of punishment, just stating the facts. They probably believe the sun revolves around the earth because thats what the rabbis say in the talmud too.

But don't you think that this is just a radical, lunatic mindset, rather than being representative of all religous belief? If you could clarify, that would be great.

even if MPB they want to keep that for their alleged fear of breaking a Mesorah, but it wouldn't be a valid Mesorah Mesorah if there is murder.

IOW, don't they know that you can violate the Sabbath, even on Yom Kippur to save a life.

Jancsi
The great radio personality Robert C. Gigante aka Bob Grant once asked an irate and obvious antisemite caller who claimed to be jewish, if he was circumcised. The caller affirmed. Bob responds "go back to the rabbi who performed the circumcision and tell him that he did not cut enough..." Followed robably by "get off my phone you {expletive}".
For some reason you remind me of that caller...

Fischer was tested

State gets rabbi's herpes test

By JAMES WALSH
THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: February 16, 2005)

The state Health Department has received the herpes test results of a Monsey rabbi suspected of passing on the virus to infants during a circumcision ritual.

State health officials subpoenaed the test results Friday, "but at this point in time, they're for internal use only," said Robert Kenney, a state Health Department spokesman.

Rockland County, Orange County and New York City health officials have prohibited Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer, 66, from performing a portion of the ritual that entails sucking blood from the wound.

Three infants circumcised by Fischer, including one who died, had contracted herpes, according to the New York City Health Department.

Fischer's attorney, Mark Jay Kurzman of Pearl River, was upset yesterday that word of the subpoena had reached the media.

"I have no comment on what ought to be a confidential, discreet governmental investigation," Kurzman said.

He also would not comment on a court session scheduled for today regarding the prohibition against Fischer's performing the full circumcision ritual.

Gabriel Taussig, chief of the administrative law division of the New York City Law Department, confirmed yesterday that the city had complied with the subpoena but declined to discuss the test results.

Taussig said today's court session in Manhattan was to be a conference among all the parties. The city is seeking a preliminary injunction that would prohibit Fischer from performing the full ritual until the case is resolved.

The ritual, which involves the sucking of blood, is predominantly used by Hasidic Jews.

The circumcisions by Fischer drew the attention of public health officials after a Manhattan newborn died of herpes in November, and his twin was diagnosed with the virus, about two weeks after their circumcisions. A third infant, from Staten Island, also was diagnosed soon after his bris.

County health departments do not regulate the religious ritual.

Shmarya I swear I always see him delegate the metzitza to a asssistant.Once again the Jewish week has no story

Lets forget for a moment about the deaths of innocent infants, who have no say in what is being done to them. I am only going to address the issue of brain damage.

1. There is no way to count or assess the costs, burdens & hardships borne by an individual, by a family, by a community, or by a country regarding preventable brain damage due to HSV1. This brain damage is silent, and invisible, but it's dysfunction is beyond our ability to measure. We don't know how many cases are out there, and we don't know how severe the brain damage is. What we do know? That the best brain damage is no brain damage.

2. We have a known disease vector, and the people at risk of infection (infant boys) have an undeveloped immune system.

3. It doesn't cost anything to prevent exposure in this scenario.

4. In spite of the facts, the practice will in all likelihood continue unchecked due to blind allegiance to tradition and the unwillingness of the Haredi to be governed in the places where they live. IMO, this is an area where the 'Light unto the Nations' schtick is looking pretty thin.

Again, not even counting the tragedy of the dead.

It would be interesting to hear what Haredi physicians would say about the practice.

Shmarya I swear I always see him delegate the metzitza to a asssistant.Once again the Jewish week has no story

Posted by: Truth | March 13, 2012 at 10:49 PM

Nice try. Is it beyond the realm of the possible that the assistant has herpes simplex virus I, or is a carrier?

A mere handful of fatalities caused by metzitzhu isnt enough to ban a religious practice. We need at least a statistical significant number to consider change to our tradition. Because after all, im sure there are documented cases where the mere act of circumsizing has caused an infant to die. Would anyone suggest to stop millha? Or perhaps argue that the government should ban millha cuz of genital mutilation? Who knows whats next? let us not forget, government action is only wellcome when there is a statistical significan number of harmed babies

MBP is an ancient practice for soothing male babies, and not only after circumcision, but for colicky babies too. They used MBP as a form of soothing infant boys in Russia and parts of Asia into the last century for sure, and may go on in some (rural) parts even today. The Torah talks of a midwife named Pu’a (from the root Peh) who used her *mouth* to “sooth” baby Moses. RASHI “explained” that the midwife had a special way of “talking” to make infants stop crying. Yeah right. Pu’a used her mouth, but it wasn’t to talk. MBP has no place in modern society. In this country we don’t suck baby phallus, not to soothe, salve, or sterilize.

This is none other than cold sores. It is highly contagious. It is a pretty nasty bug, I bet you most of the folks who post here have had it. It is what I call a "keeper". Why?

When someone gets infected with HSV-1, the virus makes its way through the skin and into a group of nerve cells called a ganglion (pronounced: gang-glee-in). The virus moves in here, takes a long snooze, and every now and then decides to wake up and cause a cold sore. But not everyone who gets the herpes simplex virus develops cold sores. In some people, the virus stays dormant (asleep) permanently.

What causes the virus to "wake up" or reactivate? The truth is, no one knows for sure. A person doesn't necessarily have to have a cold to get a cold sore — they can be brought on by other infections, fever, stress, sunlight, cold weather, hormone changes in menstruation or pregnancy, tooth extractions, and certain foods and drugs. In a lot of people, the cause is unpredictable.

I bet you they don't teach that at you local Yeshiva outfit. Tell your blood sucking vampire rabbis about it.

Fleishike Kishke - I remember reading that in some African and other primitive third world cultures they masturbate babies to calm and soothe them - male and female. MBP is probably a combination of that and the ancient scientific belief that it helped stop bleeding.

Animal sacrifices were also a very important part of ancient Jewish culture - taking place in the holiest place on earth - the Beis Hamikdash.

Yidden - please remember to turn your cellphone to Silent Mode on your way into the Bais Hamikdash, you know how it spooks the animals when they hear the ringtones.

Shmuly I told you not to bring your DS-Max into the Bais Hamikdash! I don't care if you're bored and the blood grosses you out. It's Chol Hamoed and we have to watch the Kohanim bring the korbanos. Mommy and I worked very hard to afford brand name Gucci animals to get slaughtered here and burned on the mizbaiyach.

No Malky, you can't close your eyes while they cut up the animals and spray the blood, you have to watch. These are very kadosh - they are not just any old dead cut up animals. No, you wont faint. Act like a big girl, you're 15 already and you'll be married soon. Don't worry, the blood won't get accidentally squirted into the Ezras Nashim (women's section), we're too high up for it to reach us here.

MPB can take its place along with some of our other lovely ancient Jewish customs.

"I remember reading that in some African and other primitive third world cultures they masturbate babies to calm and soothe them - male and female. "
:) I didn't mean to leave out the Africans. Slavs, Hasidim, Asians, Africans ... They form a group called SHAA, who want to keep MBP on the hush-hush.

Shmarya you still claim that he wasn't tested, based on the news. However it's be'ferush in the newspapers that I quoted and FMreader's quote that he WAS tested. So with your expertise in obtaining classified info, you should be able to show the public the results.

Shmarya you still claim that he wasn't tested, based on the news. However it's be'ferush in the newspapers that I quoted and FMreader's quote that he WAS tested. So with your expertise in obtaining classified info, you should be able to show the public the results.

Posted by: Exposing Lies | March 14, 2012 at 05:41 AM

You're a certifiable idiot.

I asked you a question but you're too dense to understand that question mark indicates a question rather than a statement.

Past that, process:

Fischer was banned for the SECOND time in 2007 after being linked to another MBP Herpes Simplex 1 infection.

He has a record of refusing to comply with health department bans.

He has a record of refusing to get tested and then of refusing to share test results with the health department.

That you are too ignorant, too poorly educated, and too stupid to understand what this means doesn't make me a liar or make me look bad.

It makes you look like what you are – a certifiable idiot.

I have contacted the Trojan company and discussed with them the possibility of producing a mini-mini condom for use during the bris milah. They are working on it.

Nice try. Is it beyond the realm of the possible that the assistant has herpes simplex virus I, or is a carrier?

Posted by: Michael from Lakewood | March 13, 2012 at 11:37 PM

If the assistant has herpes I don't know. But I do know that if the assistant is the one doing it then the Jewish week has no story

I just like the picture of the baby jesas with the 4 wise men.

"A mere handful of fatalities caused by metzitzhu isnt enough to ban a religious practice. We need at least a statistical significant number to consider change to our tradition."

A mere handful of dead infants? Ahh, what's a mere handful?

This is how the thinking of how fundamentalists operate in the political sphere. It is admitted that the fatalities are caused by the practice (something that would never be publicly admitted by a more intelligent fundamentalist politician). But the overwhelming concern is with the protection of the fundamentalists' authority from the state.

Statistics are completely irrelevant when we know how these infants died. They would only be relevant for an examination of deaths following circumcisions in the ultra-orthodox community where the specific cause of death was not known. I day this just in case there is anyone who fails to understand how science works.

"Or perhaps argue that the government should ban millha cuz of genital mutilation?"

And here is the next step --> the slippery slope argument. As if banning a practice that kills infants will lead to banning circumcision generally. This is the paranoia that is essential to maintaining fundamentalist authority.

The similarity between this and the protection of child abusers is not that it involves penises. Rather, it is how fundamentalists will fight to maintain their complete authority *at any cost*. Why would they care whether that involves sacrificing a handful of infants.

I have attended brissin recently where Yitzchok Fischer did MBP. I asked the parents if he consulted with them on whether they wanted MBP, and the parents said that it was never discussed. He just did it.

And we wonder why the Gentiles think we're crazy? MBP isn't required by Halacha, has substitutes, but we're fighting for the right to let a known sick man continue to risk infants' health. The coverage of this on HuffPost was bordering on a gentile lynching of the entire Jewish community, and the underlying reporting was accurate - but the readers had torches and pitchforks aimed straight at Judaism as a whole. If we don't stop our own stupidity ourselves, we'll be stopped by outsiders. Wait for the re-appearance of total anti-circumcision laws if Haredi attitudes keep as they are.

Dan O,
No governmet regulation or law would be past unless there is a pressing need for it. For example financial laws regarding investments were past after only the barni madoff scandal effected thousends. 2 recorded cases of death due to metzizha does not justify government regulation because of the statistical insignificance of these numbers.

In earlier discussions on the topic, I posted links to articles that fully explain the disease, how it's spread, the effects of the disease, and the details of the case reports and findings in the MBP cases.

How anyone can read those articles and still be in denial or otherwise try to justify anything about this disgusting ritual is unbelievable.

Only a mentally disturbed religious fanatic could say anything in defense of this disgusting practice.

Furthermore, the practitioners of MBP are like recruitment poster boys for the American Nazi Party.

The haredim are our misfortune.

WoolSilkCotton -What can we expect from sado-masochists only sadomasochism,theese hassidim are experts they refined the art of sadomasochism just look at the way the dress in 90 plus degrees,as the saying in gemora says shote anoi margish,a fool does not feel heat or cold or anything that pertains to feelings like a normal human being.

And we wonder why the Gentiles think we're crazy? MBP isn't required by Halacha, has substitutes, but we're fighting for the right to let a known sick man continue to risk infants' health. The coverage of this on HuffPost was bordering on a gentile lynching of the entire Jewish community, and the underlying reporting was accurate - but the readers had torches and pitchforks aimed straight at Judaism as a whole. If we don't stop our own stupidity ourselves, we'll be stopped by outsiders. Wait for the re-appearance of total anti-circumcision laws if Haredi attitudes keep as they are.

Posted by: Malka Gittel | March 14, 2012 at 09:26 AM

You can get the same kind of comment string in an article about circumcision altogether.

No governmet regulation or law would be past unless there is a pressing need for it. For example financial laws regarding investments were past after only the barni madoff scandal effected thousends. 2 recorded cases of death due to metzizha does not justify government regulation because of the statistical insignificance of these numbers.

posted by fg.


First of all there are more then two proven deaths. The two you reference are solely related to this particular mohel. We also have no idea how many other deaths, injuries or long term disabilities have been caused by MB because no one was looking for them previously! The fact that infected mohels can cause infant death via MB is sufficient reason to license all of them and mandate regular and frequent testing prior to allowing MB to be performed again. A moratorium is justifiable.

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