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February 11, 2012

Schochet Cancels Boteach Debate

Rabbi Jacob Immanuel Schochet closeupChabad's Rabbi Jacob Immanuel Schochet has suddenly taken "ill" and will not appear on Talkline tonight to confront Rabbi Shmuley Boteach about his (really bad) book, "Kosher Jesus."

Zev Brenner's Talkline emails:

Schochet cancellation closeup

Schochet cancellation

 

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Shmarya - you do know the man was ill? - there were posts asking to say Tehillim on his behalf - this was a few months ago or so

which is why I was surprised to see he would be on

"Suddenly" taken ill is inaccurate -or just a cruel lie- for it is well known that Rabbi shochet has been ill for years .

I suspect R. Schochet changed his mind and did not wish to speak to him, in what probably seemed like a waste of time,

All I can tell you is that he agreed to appear on the show and was still scheduled as of late Friday afternoon, just before Shabbos.

And as you can see from a comment tonight left on Friday's post announcing the show, Schochet appears to be telling people he never agreed to appear. And that appears to be a lie.

What I recall most about Manny Schochet was his strong words against Crown Heights and messianism in the years leading up to the Rebbe's death. And then Manny attacked Rabbi David Berger and accused him of all sorts of bad things, all based on Berger's book – which said many of the same things Schochet told me a couple years before, except Berger was more polite in saying them.

So you'll forgive me for assuming Manny lied.

He realized too late that confronting that clown would be stooping to his level.

Shmarya, did you see this?

http://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=18596&alias=rabbis-urge-to-marry-young

It's extremely important to get the sheep married and making babies as soon as possible before they become capable of thinking for themselves.

I have the letter, too.

I plan on posting it later tonight.

What is Yene Machla? Google doesn't explain it well.

Yene Machla is Yiddish for "that disease", a euphemism for cancer.

Never mind. I found it. It's not really a disease but a Yiddish superstition phrase so one doesn't say the disease's name.

Rabbi schochet just got a call from his son sruli who had a nidah question about his 18 year old (former baby sitter) wife, so Rabbi Schochet figured he'd rather smell his daughter in law's pussy off her blood stained panties, than get owned by Boteach.

boteach has been braying about Shochet non stop in his emails and twitters, he is literally gone off the deep end this boteach.

Look for some real madness and evil to come out from this boteach very soon.

Rabbi schochet just got a call from his son sruli who had a nidah question about his 18 year old (former baby sitter) wife, so Rabbi Schochet figured he'd rather smell his daughter in law's pussy off her blood stained panties, than get owned by Boteach.

This is disgusting and lowers Failed Messiah to new levels of low.

Did someone forget to feed the animals?

It would seem to me that to call Boteach's book dangerous for jews is to seriously not have any faith in the secular education of the average jew.

Posted by: centrist | February 11, 2012 at 11:35 PM

Remember centrist, most of the criticism of calling this book dangerous for Jews comes from Haredim fanatics who consider a secular education treife.

Shmarya,
I believe people here are too harsh on Rabbi Schochet, whether or not you agree with his position. He has dealt with some severe life-threatening health issues over the last few years. From reading the earlier articles and posting, it gave the impression that it would be a head to head debate. Given Rabbi Schochet's health, I can not imagine that he would ever agree to such a thing at this time. When the radio program started, they made it clear that they had NOT planned a head to head debate but separate segments.

When it was "cancelled", people are jumping on him. I was not privy to the call or other communications between the radio host and Rabbi Schochet. However, given Rabbi Schochet's illness and the affect it had/has on him, you are not accounting for the possibility that there was a miscommunication. Likewise, if he did agree to be on the show in some form (something I don't know if he did or did not), he has a pass in my eyes given his ongoing severe and life challenging health struggles.

Jerome Soller
Salt Lake City, Utah

Posted by: Jerome Soller | February 12, 2012 at 01:23 AM

In other words, you, Jerome Soller, were wrong.

But rather than admit that, you just give Schochet a "pass."

And not only that, you'll portray him as dottering.

But you see, Jerome, your portrayal doesn't match the portrayal of Schochet's family – or the truth.

Putting it bluntly, Shmarya, you said, "will not appear on Talkline tonight to confront Rabbi Shmuley Boteach about his (really bad) book, "Kosher Jesus." Confront implies a debate. I listened to the first hour of the radio show, before getting pulled away for work commitments with an international customer for a software project. The host made it very clear that he was not planning a debate, but different segments (possibly the one by Schochet pre-recorded). Read what you wrote and what I said. Your presentation above about "confront" does not match what the radio host said in the first hour. Your portrayal does not match the truth, as the radio announcer presented it.

As for as hedging my words, I was not privy to the communications between Rabbi Schochet and the radio host before the show. If there was written correspondence or an agreement, please show it. However, that does not change the fact that the radio host stressed that a debate or confrontation was not planned, even had Rabbi Schochet participated.

Jerome

Jerome, you're a very bad apologist.

I posted what the radio show sent out.

As for Schochet, his family told me that Schochet never agreed to be on the show, and then his family retracted that statement a few minutes later after they found out he had agreed to be on the show.

Perhaps all of you should get your stories straight before you attack me or Brenner.

Shmarya

I don't know you nor do I come onto your website much. But where my father's honor is at stake I will weigh in.

I have the email chain and you were copied into it, that says that my father took a call from the producer on Friday. He made it clear he won't know how he would be feeling after Shabbos (as that is usually his most difficult time of week what with his illness, after going into Shul etc.) In the event, it was agreed that they would check with him again after Shabbos and that if he was not up to it he would possibly pre-record.

You saw the email (I saw you copied in) in which Brenner confirms the above.

You also know that even had he been up to it, it was never going to be a debate - as Brenner himself confirms in a subsequent email. He further made that clear in his broadcast tonight. You yourself copied us all into your email in which you asked Brenner "appearing at the same time?" which you never got confirmation to. That is hardly a debate and not even confirmation thereof. Even the original email did not suggest a debate yet you posted Schochet V Boteach. That is NOT what the radio station sent out.

Where do you have any email confirming my father agreed to a debate (which he would never do even in the best of health) and where do you have an email from my father stating he never agreed to be on the show. In which case I have to ask you, where did he lie?

Posted by: Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet | February 12, 2012 at 03:27 AM

Please.

You and your brother told people that your father never agreed to be on the show.

You retracted that when your father told you that was not true.

You and your family then tried to claim that your father wasn't really sure he would be on the show.

But that wasn't true either.

Your father told Talkline he would do the show. He told them to call him at 8 pm to see if he was strong enough to do it live at midnight. If not, he told Talkline he would do a prerecorded interview, which Brenner could do at 8 pm.

Brenner called at 8, spoke to your father at length, but wasn't able to record it because your father wouldn't okay it.

Instead, your father offered to be on another episode of Talkline to talk about Boteach's book.

In your emails to me you noted your father was fully recovered from his serious illness.

Then you made use of that illness to cover for your father's withdrawal from the Talkline show.

You're dishonest, and so is your father.

Pursuant to my previous email you also wrote "As for Schochet, his family told me that Schochet never agreed to be on the show, and then his family retracted that statement a few minutes later"

I now have eyes on the email sent to you. There was categorical denial in that email that my father ever agreed to a debate. There was no denial in that email that he agreed to be on the show. To quote the relevant lines from the email:

"Hi Shmaryah,
Gut voch. Someone just brought to my attention the announcement about the
‘debate’ that was later cancelled. After speaking to my father (both on Friday
and tonight) I promise you there was never a debate planned. Either someone is
playing a trick on you or on Zev Brenner. I would challenge the Zev Brenner show
to produce an email or the like from my father to show that there was ever an
agreement for a debate."

Enough said.

YY Schochet

YY Schochet

Posted by: Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet | February 12, 2012 at 03:40 AM

Really?

"Enough" said?

Don't forget that I gave your family Brenner's contact info, and I also forwarded your family's complaint to him.

Lord knows, there's no reason for a Schochet to tell the truth, now is there?

Past that, your family told people that your father never agreed to be on the show. Some of those people attacked me for lying and claiming that he was scheduled to be on.

Your family was, of course wrong.

And you're left with what? Parsing the language?

It wasn't a debate?

I never used the word debate. I never called it a debate.

And I never said your father and Boteach were to on air together.

But again, Schochet's don't seem closely tied to the truth.

Perhaps I need to write a post about that, and about your family. Lord knows, I have more than enough to write about.

You and your brother told people that your father never agreed to be on the show. -REALLY? WHOM DID I TELL THAT TO? I'LL DONATE $1000 TO YOUR SITE IF YOU SHOW ME ONE PERSON I TOLD THAT TO.

You retracted that when your father told you that was not true - REALLY? AND YET I DIDN'T SPEAK TO MY FATHER AFTER SHABBOS AT ALL?

You and your family then tried to claim that your father wasn't really sure he would be on the show - REALLY? DO YOU HAVE A SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT?

Your father told Talkline he would do the show. He told them to call him at 8 pm to see if he was strong enough to do it live at midnight. If not, he told Talkline he would do a prerecorded interview, which Brenner could do at 8 pm - THIS IS TRUE BUT YOU ARE (DELIBERATELY?) IGNORING THE "DEBATE" ISSUE WHICH YOU POSTED - AND NOW SEEM TO BE BACKPEDDLING ON. AGAIN A FURTHER $1000 IF YOU COULD PRODUCE ANY PROOF THAT MY FATHER AGREED TO A DEBATE.


In your emails to me you noted your father was fully recovered from his serious illness - IF YOU PRODUCE A SINGLE EMAIL THAT I EVER WROTE YOU LET ALONE CONFIRMING MY FATHER BEING WELL - I WILL DONATE A FURTHER $1000 TO YOUR WEBSITE.

THAT'S $3000 YOU STAND TO MAKE. Shame on you. Thought you had a little more class than that.

Please.

Either people are lying or you are lying.

Everyone knows the Chabad line is not to confront Boteach in person.

Your father was breaking that line, and though better of it.

FINAL POINT THAT SAYS ALL ABOUT YOU:

YOU WROTE: "It wasn't a debate? I never used the word debate. I never called it a debate."

AND YET THE VERY HEADLINE OF THIS THREAD YOUR POSTING READS: "Schochet Cancels Boteach Debate"

YOU SHOULD BE CAREFUL POSTING AT 5AM. FOR THOSE OF US WHERE IT IS 10AM WE'RE A LITTLE MORE ALERT.

HOOK LINE AND SINKER.

I was referring to my original post, which did not call it a debate.

But after your family lied, it seemed that it really was supposed to be a debate.

It wasn't? It was only supposed to an appearance?

So what?

The point is that your father WAS booked to on the show.

Your father DID cancel that live appearance.

And your father DID cancel a prerecorded appearance, as well.

Call that what you want.

The fact remains that your father condemned Boteach's book but didn't explain why.

In the real world outside of the fantasy world rabbis and haredim tend to live in, you need to back up words like that, clearly and in public.

But your father ran away from that responsibility.

The really sad thing is that none of his children are educated enough or smart enough to do it for him.

Nu? So where should we start? With your father's lies about Berger? With your uncle's issues? With your cousins' racism?

What part of the Schochet family would you like me to write about first?

After all, these people are all rabbis and shluchim or their wives. Doesn't the world need to know what they really are?

lets not forget rabbis in their fantasy world are also infallible never make mistakes .

I guess Shmarya, like myself, doesn't need an extra $3,000.

Shmarya had a chance to earn $3,000 and turned it down. What does that say about him? The only things I can think of is: Shmarya lies or this is not really that great a cause for us to be donating to if Shmarya is ready to turn down a clean $3G.

People who run non-profits should be more transparent.

this is just a small indication of the credibility of this site ENOUGH SAID!

What part of the Schochet family would you like me to write about first?
This sounds like a clear case of blackmailing to me!I guess it just depends on not what is being done ,rather (once again) who is doing it.

his is just a small indication of the credibility of this site ENOUGH SAID!

Posted by: mah toivee | February 12, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Idiot.

1. My first post about Schochet's appearance, which was done of Friday afternoon, did NOT say "debate."

2. At the same time, I emailed Talkline to see if Boteach and Schochet would be on air together.

3. I got an answer to that email Saturday evening. As you can see above the email doesn't say, "No, they were not scheduled to be on air together." Instead, it says Schochet "backed out as he's not well."

4. So the attack on me by Schochet's son Yitzchak is idiotic on its face.

5. But when you add in the behavior of the Schochet family last night, along with Manny Schochet's previous lies (which I've noted several times over the years), and you really cross the line into craven behavior from the Schochets.

6. My threat to write about other family members means a lot more than you understand. People have the right to know what rabbis who represent them actually do. Some of the stories have already been told here, but without the names attached. But after dealing with Yitzchak, I've come to believe that isn't enough.

Shmarya I'm a fan but you sound desperate. You lost this one. Just give it up. I don't know the ins and outs of it all but I just read and re-read the thread. Shochet junior did show you up certainly where you made sweeping statements and he challenged you to prove any of them (for 3 grand). All you came up with was something like shut up. Then he showed you up again when denying reference to debate and he proved you did use the term (at one point or another)."The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Posted by: Chaim Eckstein | February 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM

Please.

Again, follow the steps:

1. My first post about Schochet's appearance, which was done of Friday afternoon, did NOT say "debate."

2. At the same time, I emailed Talkline to see if Boteach and Schochet would be on air together.

3. I got an answer to that email Saturday evening. As you can see above the email does NOT say, "They were not scheduled to be on air together." Instead, it says Schochet "backed out as he's not well."

4. So the attack on me by Schochet's son Yitzchak is idiotic on its face.

5. Add in the behavior of the Schochet family last night, along with Manny Schochet's previous lies (which I've noted several times over the years), and you really cross the line into craven behavior from the Schochets.

Now lets add to that Yitzchak Schochet's lies about the page ripping incident in a debate with Boteach.

Should I report about other bad Schochet behavior?

I think the answer to that question is yes, and the more people like you troll here, the more likely I am to do it.

Should I report about other bad Schochet behavior?

Posted by: Shmarya | February 12, 2012 at 12:58 PM

If only the "bad Schochet behavior" already reported was true, we might be interested in hearing more. But even with the incentive of a $3,000 reward, Shmarya can't support his libels.

Shmarya come on man. I tried to be reasonable. You didn't answer any of Shochet's retorts to your allegations. You stood to make 3K and you blew it. If it was not a debate why did you write Shochet pulls out of "debate?" You didn't answer any of this stuff and now you accuse the younger Shochet of lying about tearing pages from a book because . . . Boteach said so?

I tried to be nice but you cannot reason with a moron.

Okay, you just bought yourself the story of a first marriage not recognized by halakha, and its aftermath.

But before I post that, let me try one more time to explain to you why you're wrong.

1. Yitzchak Schochet is attacking me for something Brenner did. As you can CLEARLY see from the timeline of all this, Brenner never said Schochet was to on seperately until the show was already on air, HOURS after I posted.

2. Regardless of that, Schochet's family lied and those lies were used by others to attack me and attack Brenner.

3. What Yitzi Schochet did is an old debater's trick – he set up a straw man and demanded I prove the straw man false to win something, in this case, money. But the issue never was the straw man. The issue was whether or not his father had agreed to be on the same show as Boteach. And the answer is, he did.

4. Yitzi Schochet lied about the page ripping trick he used on Boteach in a debate years ago, and anyone reading his writings on Boteach's book can see that he is no more honest now than he was then.

5. Manny Schochet also is a big fan of debater's tricks and the type of manipulation logic professors do to show their students that black things can be logically argued in a way they still remain black but the recipient of the argument has been forced to agree that the objects are, in fact, white. But of course, in the real world, they aren't. And he also lies. And that makes any claims he makes about his ability to inability appear on Brenner's show highly suspect from the get go – especially when Chabad wants everyone to keep their distance from Boteach and to do nothing that gives him a platform to sell his book.

Now, as we used to say in yeshiva, gei kakken affen yam.

And as for what Yitzi did during that debate, I'm told video evidence exists to prove him a liar.

Let's see: You wrote at the outset Shochet V Boteach and then used words like "duke it out." Your final post again was the Shochet pulled out of "debate."

Now you're saying you were lead to believe it was going to be a debate - yet you always insisted you never said it was going to be a debate.

If you were falseley lead to believe it was going to be a debate then Brenner mislead you. Your beef is with him. However, he insists in the letter posted above that he never said there was going to be a debate. In which case he's calling you a liar. Yet again your beef is with him.

Your just choosing Shochets as a smoke screen and wanting to lash out at them because Brenner played you for the fool you are. Post what you want about them. I could care less.

Bottom line: Either Brenner lied/mislead (as you imply) or you lied/mislead (as he implied).

As for video evidence about Shochet - maybe. I don't know. I read Boteach's piece so your source that he tore pages and lied about it and your alleged video source is probably the same -citing proof from the opposition is disingenious. Actually, just plain stupid.

Either way it occurs to me, your reference to the video - you just built your own straw man and want others to shoot it down. Double standards? Typical.

It must be hurting now. Take a deep puff and calm down. Walk away. Go ahead and take your last word. I've said all that needs to be said. I'm outta here now but it has been real. Note how everyone else is quiet on this one. They're enjoying the spectacle of Shmarya caught with his tongue between his legs.

You're an idiot.

I posted the exact email I was sent by Talkline and then I later posted Zev Brenner's response to my question about them appearing together.

That you are too dull to process this does not surprise me.

The responsibility for how Schochet's appearance was understood is Brenner's, not mine.

But this all beyond the grasp of the Schochets and their trolls, so I'll have to my best to expose what the Schochets really are – lies and all.

There are three prominent Schochet brothers, All of them are Chabad rabbis. One is a Chabad rosh yeshiva. Another is the head of va'ad of Chabad rabbis. The third is Manny.

Which one has children who believe black people are not fully human? Which one has a non-Jewish child he abandoned? And why do his brothers cover that up?

Which one told people privately that Chabad in Crown Heights was a "cult" and that people should "stay far away" from it, but shortly afterward attacked Rabbi David Berger for saying the same thing in a much more polite manner?

Which one allowed his work in a vocational school to be billed as a professorship in a real university?

Any thoughts on who these rabbis Schochet are?

Looks like Shmarya won the argument right there. The allegation that one of the Shochet extended family "has children who believe black people are not fully human" proves that Emanuel agreed to a debate with Boteach last Saturday night on Talkline. The logic is compelling and irrefutable.

Time for Shmarya to collect his $3,000!!!

Debate: To discuss a question by considering opposed arguments (The Merriam-Webster Dictionary). The dictionary says nothing about format, there is no condition that people "be on the air at the same time." Since Schochet agreed to present an argument on KOSHER JESUS on the Brenner show at 12:00, or prerecord at 8:00, to which Boteach would provide a counter-argument, this was most definitely a *Debate.* "$1000 IF YOU COULD PRODUCE ANY PROOF THAT MY FATHER AGREED TO A DEBATE." I want to see a Paypal receipt for a $1,000 donation.

The All American Dictionary: Debate is a method of interactive and representational argument." Doing a pre-record for someone to respond to later without a chance for interactive dialogue is not a debate.

Even by your definition: To discuss a question by considering opposed arguments - "discuss" is the operative word here. If there's no discussion then it's not a debate.

Spend the $1000 on some education.

Discuss: To examine ... to talk about ... to consider and argue the pros and cons of ... (New World Dictionary of American English). Says nothing about how many times people must argue back and forth. this was most definitely a *Debate.* "$1000 IF YOU COULD PRODUCE ANY PROOF THAT MY FATHER AGREED TO A DEBATE." I want to see a Paypal receipt for a $1,000 donation.

your idiot brother Romney has begun trailing santorum. (san-TOR-um. n. 1. The frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex (spreadingsantorum.com).

Debate is a method of interactive and representational argument."

Discuss: To examine ... to talk about ... to consider and argue the pros and cons of ...

"interactive" "argue"
DUH! Thick

Since Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet wrote the contract, all ambiguities in the contract are to Shmarya's benefit. You evidently can't see it, but at its most basic level, agreeing to present opposing/differing viewpoints about KOSHER JEUSUS on the Zev Brenner show absolutely constitutes a debate, as defined by a standard American-English dictionary, and therefore Rabbi Yitzchak Schochet owes Failed Messiah a $1,000 donation. If you don't like my ruling, appeal to Linda Reade.

I actually like Rabbi Immanuel Schochet, its Yitzchak Schochet I have a problem with. Shmarya let us know when you start writing your posts about him, I have lots of information to give you (with photographic evidence of emails) of him not acting, shall we say, at all, like a "Rabbi."

If you have proof, I'll publish it.

Still Eerily quiet two years later............

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