Haredi Pols Vow Shabbat Buses Won't Happen
Haredi politicians say they will prevent Tel Aviv from starting public bus service on Shabbat, the Jewish Sabbath.
Haredi politicians say Shabbat buses won’t happen
Deputy Mayor Naftali Lubert (United Torah Judaism) called the decision 'cheap, Meretz spin,' referring to the left-wing party.
By Yair Ettinger • Ha’aretz
Ultra-Orthodox politicians refused to be daunted Tuesday by the Tel Aviv city council’s resolution to sanction buses on Shabbat, saying the move would be defeated soon enough.
Deputy Mayor Naftali Lubert (United Torah Judaism) called the decision “cheap, Meretz spin,” referring to the left-wing party. He said he couldn’t be bothered to threaten to leave the city coalition.
Similarly, Shas MKs completely ignored the decision on the assumption that it would be overridden in the city government or by Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz. A Shas official said the party refused to “be dragged into an argument that would portray Shas as primitive Haredim who prevent the secular community from having fun on Shabbat.”
But Tel Aviv Chief Rabbi Meir Lau slammed the resolution, saying that it “shamed the history of Tel Aviv-Jaffa, founded 103 years ago as the first Hebrew city. The former chief rabbi of Israel quoted historical Tel Aviv figures such as national poet Hayim Nahman Bialik, Zionist thinker Ahad Ha’am and the city’s first mayor, Meir Dizengoff. All opposed desecration of Shabbat.
Lau quoted a 1933 pamphlet by Dizengoff stating that “we called several times on the Tel Aviv public to refrain from public desecration of Shabbat, an act that hurts the feelings of the Haredi public and the good reputation of Tel Aviv as a pure Hebrew city.”
Lau said he felt “pain and deep disappointment due to the council’s recommendation to operate public transportation on Shabbat. It’s a wound to Shabbat’s holiness, which commemorates the Creation and the Exodus from Egypt. It’s a day of rest for every worker and a day for spiritual elation and family unity.”
Lau appealed to Tel Aviv Mayor Ron Huldai not to “put out the Shabbat candle.” He also urged the interior and transportation ministries not to approve the resolution. They should preserve the sanctity “of Shabbat in the public sphere, as befitting the Jewish State.”
The organization of Tzohar Rabbis, a moderate religious-Zionist group, called on the city council “not to seriously harm Israel’s Jewish character without a serious public debate.”
Tzohar’s chairman, David Stav, said in a statment that “despite the city’s image, most of its inhabitants are traditional Jews who care about Shabbat. Many secular residents “yearn for quiet” on Shabbat, he added. “The financial motive to help businesses and young people cannot be the municipality’s main consideration.”
So long as the Charedim refuse to contribute to Israeli society they should have no voice.
How about a deal?
No Shabbat buses if the Charedim cease their refusal to work or educate their children?
Posted by: David | February 22, 2012 at 02:03 PM
I would love that the chariedim should "see" (is there a way to just visualize it? I don't want a jew should sin) a gay chiloni making out with his arab partner,driving a Eged bus on Shabbos- passover while eating a chometz'dig pork sandwich with cheese on top.
Maybe than they will realize that they are living in a zionist state NOT in a jewish state.
Posted by: מרדכי סטמר | February 22, 2012 at 02:28 PM
i dont see them stoning cars driving on kvish tel aviv . why would they stop busses? besides , thereare many non jews who can gain from busses.
Posted by: jj | February 22, 2012 at 02:29 PM
A certain irony for ultra-Orthodox to make an appeal based on Bialik?
Posted by: Steven W | February 22, 2012 at 02:30 PM
This is exactly why ALL fundamentalist religions (and politics) suck. Instead of simply practicing as they see fit, they feel obligated to impose their version of things on everyone else.
Of course if they do succede, they just crank the crazy up a notch and invent a new version of it.
Posted by: tonda | February 22, 2012 at 02:40 PM
מרדכי I am truly offended by your repeated use our the term Zionist state, the same words used by the Jewish people's most vehement enemies like Iran who would happily drop a nuclear bomb on Israel and rejoice at the destruction chas vsholem.
I expect to read see the pejorative term in a militant Palestinian site not here
Posted by: Shlomo1 | February 22, 2012 at 02:46 PM
מרדכי Just cause him to visualize a poor boy crying his eyes out because his rabbi in some Satmar yeshiva is sodomizing him.
Do you find that to be an offensive stereotype? It's meant to be so.
Your conception of a chiloni as you describe him is just as offensive and absurd.
Posted by: SkepticalYid | February 22, 2012 at 03:04 PM
The Haredim refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish entity - yet they insist that it follow traditional Jewish law.
Six and a half decades of letting them have it both ways. Enough is enough.
Posted by: Jeff | February 22, 2012 at 03:06 PM
I would love that the chariedim should "see" a gay chiloni making out with his arab partner,driving a Eged bus on Shabbos- passover while eating a chometz'dig pork sandwich with cheese on top.
Posted by: מרדכי סטמר | February 22, 2012 at 02:28 PM
So if a Jew drives a bus on Pesach Shabbos, it will lead to his marrying an Arab in San Francisco and opening an Italian deli. Got it.
This is exactly why ALL fundamentalist religions (and politics) suck. Instead of simply practicing as they see fit, they feel obligated to impose their version of things on everyone else.
Posted by: tonda | February 22, 2012 at 02:40 PM
This is not the same thing as throwing rocks at 8 year olds for being politically incorrect. Shabbos and the yid are inseparable, this is a big deal. It's not the same thing as conservative Christians boycotting an abortion clinic or outlawing stem cells. In this case, the Haredim have a leg to stand on. Will they refrain from throwing rocks or rioting? Who knows...
Posted by: Korbendallas72 | February 22, 2012 at 04:21 PM
The Haredim will not be happy until the Theocracy is complete. No male work or military service, the country shuts down completely inclusive of power plants at sundown on Friday, every family has 10+ children, the women dress in a uniform that covers them so completely that heatstroke sets in fairly frequently, there are no universities or even high schools that teach anything secular: history is of no use, neither is mathematics, science is treif, the cities literally bulge with yeshivot, mikvahs (for that pre-shabbos sexual urge),kollelim and every man sports the same dress: dirty black suit, dirty tie, smelly white shirt, filthy black hat, AND of course all manner of goyish business would be expelled (after all they desecrate shabbos)ie Microsoft, Intel, Compugen etc.
All busses, airlines, etc will come equipped with mechitsas and men walk on the sidewalk, women, wherever they won't cause the men to become erect. The men will have nothing to do all day but sit in yeshiva or kollel, drink coffee & vodka, smoke and fart.
A Haredi paradise to be sure
Posted by: Alter Kocker | February 22, 2012 at 04:22 PM
Did you guys read the article? Chareidi politicians are not protesting. They are simply expressing confidence that the law will be defeated. The ones protesting are Tzohar - religious Zionist-Modern Orthodox and of course the chief rabbi of the city who is reminding everyone that Shabbos as a national day of rest is ingrained in Israeli culture even before the founding of the medinah and shouldn't be changed.
So why are you all attacking Chareidim?
Attack Tzohar - Modern Orthodox or better yet attack Dizengoff and Bialik , Ben Gurion etc. who retained enough respect for Jewish tradition to be able to call for compromise and harmony within the Jewish society.
Fact of the matter is polls consistently show that a huge majority of Israeli Jewish population is traditional willingly observe many mitzvot and support Shabbos as a day of rest , kosher in the army and government buildings etc.
The commentors here seem so blinded by their hatred and so out of touch with reality in the Land of Yisrael.
Why don't you guys organize a failedmessiah.com tour of Israel walk the streets and converse with regular Israelis of all stripes before continuing to spew blind hatred.
Posted by: A Yid | February 22, 2012 at 05:00 PM
Are the bearded wonders being forced into taking a bus on shabbos?
Are they being forced to do anything?
But they have no hesitation to force the rest of the world, the majority, to follow their medieval rules.
No, thank you.
Posted by: Litvish | February 22, 2012 at 05:49 PM
If only non-Jews wanted to work the Shabbos shift?
Posted by: Korbendallas72 | February 22, 2012 at 06:39 PM
I guess they will have to start paying their shabbos goys more so they can afford their own cars instead of having to depend on public transportation.
Posted by: tonda | February 22, 2012 at 06:50 PM
i dont see them stoning cars driving on kvish tel aviv . why would they stop busses? besides , thereare many non jews who can gain from busses.
Posted by: jj | February 22, 2012 at 02:29 PM
It is more of a symbolic thing. Israel is the Jewish State and has for many years "held shabbos" in many respects. To allow buses to run on shabbos is implying that the kedushe of Israel is going downhill which makes no sense considering the haredi percentage of the population is rising.
Maybe what is needed is for the seculars to start up a private bus line that runs only on shabbos (to start). Being that private cars and cabs do run on shabbos I don't see this as a problem. The only issue is that the seculars have zero organization. There is no secular leadership that can organize and pull this off.
The seculars are at the complete mercy of private enterprise and government programs they have no ability to set up an enterprise to service themselves the way the haredim do.
Posted by: Confused | February 22, 2012 at 07:13 PM
I'm sorry if I offended anyone. (My mere existence is offensive....)
I did not intended to imply that chilonim are gay or whatever.
I simply wanted to bring out the fact that the seculars are at fault for the chariedims (religious zionists) mind set,that the zionist state has anything in common with jewishness.
And as long the public will accept the premise,that the state laws and culture is "based" on toirah law, you will have the religious zionist, stuffing it -the "complete" toirah- down your throats.
The seculars were chickens at the states establishment, so they intentionally DIDN'T create a constitution.
So they did a broad based chikai yesod, that doesn't even come close to the "federalist papers" .
They purposely left everything that touches a raw nerve to any specific group or culture, up to the high court to decide, just how their activist mind is telling them at the moment.
So, what my suggestion was all about.
Show the chariedim once and for all!
That you DO NOT want toirah rule. And you won't take it anymore.
Shlomy1:
For lack of a better word to define me vs the state. I'm using their own term for the movement that started 100 years ago. "Zionist state".
Posted by: מרדכי סטמר | February 22, 2012 at 07:30 PM
מרדכי סטמר- What is there to be done oy vey iz mir the universe will collapse on itself because of the busses running on shabbas oyoyoy reboinoi shel oilom all the frummies would only care this much about rabbis molesting innocent children we would be alright,but what the heck its easier to hold others responsible then facing responsibility youreself nu.
Posted by: jancsipista | February 22, 2012 at 07:39 PM
With all the toireh learning that they had before ww2 it didnt make no difference 6 million were killed who in his right mind would want to go back to those days when there was no protection from no one only insane people would want that,now that we have protection by the israeli army theese nut cases ultra hareidis want to destroy that protection how crazy can anyone get, only religion makes someone this insane
Posted by: jancsipista | February 22, 2012 at 07:46 PM
,,,,,,,,
........
;;;;;;;;
!!!!!!!!
????????
()()()()
Free punctuation.
Take as many as you need.
Capital letters available on request.
Posted by: tonda | February 22, 2012 at 07:52 PM
funny if anybody tries to impose anything on the herdeim they blow a shit fit.
like not importing fur for their hats which of course have zero religious significance.
yet they want to tel everybody else what to do.
they truly think it is a one way street
Posted by: seymour | February 22, 2012 at 07:53 PM
Jancs:
You only see the religious zionists up in arms about it.
Shas and Agudah.
of course you would understand that in order not offend (your insistence on public transportation on shabbos just for comfort reasons ,is taken at face value...) shabbos observant jews, they will have to reroute the routes out of the chariedi neighborhoods.
Just as someone who was in favor of the "ground zero mosk",-even though each side was very passionate about it- "understood" the people who were against it.
Posted by: מרדכי סטמר | February 22, 2012 at 08:06 PM
The Charedim just don't get it. There are probably many non-Jews that could engage in useful economic activity by using the buses, e.g. to go to work or to shop. By stopping such economic activity they are further diminishing the tax base which is used to pay for their welfare.
And as pointed out, the Charedim don't even see Israel as a Jewish state, so what difference does it make if this "goyishe" state violates Shabbat in any case.
The Charedim should also remember that if Israel truly was a Jewish state then the water and electricity would have to be shut off on Shabbat as well, there is simply no way around that.
Posted by: David | February 22, 2012 at 08:08 PM
Are the frum better than all of the rest of the world?
According to them, Absolutely.
Are they the only ones who, via their claims of learning torah, keep the world in existence?
According to them, Absolutely.
Who needs hashem when you have them?
Posted by: Litvish | February 22, 2012 at 08:09 PM
The only issue is that the seculars have zero organization. There is no secular leadership that can organize and pull this off.Posted by: Confused
can you stop posting your nonsense please?
you never have any idea what youre talking about.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | February 22, 2012 at 08:11 PM
They learned like crazy before 1939.
What did their learning amount to when the Nazis decided they were history?
Their Torah and mitsvos amounted to nothing when all was said and done.
They have been exposed for the shameless charlatans they are, the avdei avodah zorah worshiping their own bearded faces in the mirror.
What a pathetic bunch of losers.
Their women need to be sterilized to protect the rest of the world.
Yes, I wrote that and I mean that.
May it come to pass, bimheyro b'yomeynu.
Posted by: Litvish | February 22, 2012 at 08:12 PM
Litvish-h worshiping their own bearded faces in the mirror.
Hahahaha thats a good one youre good :))
Posted by: jancsipista | February 22, 2012 at 08:20 PM
can you stop posting your nonsense please?
you never have any idea what youre talking about.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | February 22, 2012 at 08:11 PM
We see time and time again where the haredim are able to get things their way via block voting, ability to pull together demonstrations at will, organized fund raising etc. Why you can't see where the strength of the haredim lies is beyond me.
Posted by: Confused | February 22, 2012 at 08:24 PM
Why you can't see where the strength of the haredim lies is beyond me.
Posted by: Confused | February 22, 2012 at 08:24 PM
Halachic Jews and seculars have reached breaking point with the Charedim. They will not tolerate much more, especially due to their continued refusal to work, fight or be educated. The time is coming....
Posted by: David | February 22, 2012 at 08:29 PM
Posted by: מרדכי סטמר
"Maybe than they will realize that they are living in a zionist state NOT in a jewish state."
Put a cork in it already!. It's Jewish Israel.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone. (My mere existence is offensive....)
Boo hoo
"I did not intended to imply that chilonim are gay or whatever."
Too late. And don't chalk it to your "poor english", you are an adult living in the USA long enough to write/know better.
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | February 22, 2012 at 08:32 PM
Litvish -The majority of them would never ever have so many children were it not for sec.8 food stamps wic and other ripoff handouts the woman dont need to be sterilized
thay have no shame to dupe the system no morals about it not that they got so strong from sec.8 and food stamps they ahve the audacity to start dictating to others how they should live their lifes
Posted by: jancsipista | February 22, 2012 at 08:34 PM
In israel just like here they get handouts and there 2 they start dictating to others just look at beit shemesh i would let them starve to death.
Posted by: jancsipista | February 22, 2012 at 08:36 PM
Freedom of religion? Freedom of conscience? Freedom of expression? Neh!
Posted by: Sam The Man | February 22, 2012 at 08:41 PM
Sam The Man - Thats were the trouble starts they got to much of each,and too much of anything good food or religion is no good.
Posted by: jancsipista | February 22, 2012 at 08:53 PM
Posted by: A Yid
"So why are you all attacking Chareidim?"
Oh, blessed mother, here we go again. One more time, A Yid.
Not the whole of Chareidim; Just those fringe, extremist lunatics whose deeds are so out of step with normal Jewish life that they paint the whole of Hareidim as being as one and the same: Spiters, Stone throwers, Woman attackers/beaters, Those who impede normal Jewish city services, Modern knowledge deniers, No IDF serving conscripts, Pedophile/money swindling Rabeh, urderers,...
Those "Chareidim".
The commentors here seem so blinded by their hatred and so out of touch with reality in the Land of Yisrael.
Now, who is attacking who, you little extremist hareidim automata? ("must obey orders to attach Goyim and Zionists for I have no will.")
"Why don't you guys organize a failedmessiah.com..."
Yeah, blahblahblah, "Me and extremists hareidim brethren are not doing anything of what we are being accused of!. You are such meanies!, shmucks!".
Posted by: Bob Guthrie | February 22, 2012 at 08:54 PM
... while eating a chometz'dig pork sandwich with cheese on top.
Puhleeeze! A BLT (hold the mayo) is much more nutritious and appetizing
Posted by: The Gedera Gourmet | February 22, 2012 at 08:55 PM
Posted by: Litvish | February 22, 2012 at 08:12 PM
of course Torah helped them
but it was overwhelmed by the sins of the secular and Zionist
it must be true since two arch enemies said that
satmar lubabicher rebbies
can you imagine the destruction if it would not have been for their Torah learning
Posted by: seymour | February 22, 2012 at 09:12 PM
The only issue is that the seculars have zero organization. There is no secular leadership that can organize and pull this off.Posted by: Confused
can you stop posting your nonsense please?
you never have any idea what youre talking about.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | February 22, 2012 at 08:11 PM
THANK YOU!
Posted by: Jeff | February 22, 2012 at 09:33 PM
THANK YOU!
Posted by: Jeff
my pleasure :)
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | February 22, 2012 at 10:25 PM
Tonda, may I buy a vowel?
Posted by: Steven W | February 22, 2012 at 10:49 PM
http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2012/02/satmar-rebbe-rav-aaron-teitelbaum-gives.html
Posted by: eli | February 23, 2012 at 08:24 AM
Confused- The hareidim are just as confused as you are,since their mass insanity defense does not work on everyone like yiddin who know better who they are you condused need to take you medication to clear youre puny head up.
Posted by: jancsipista | February 23, 2012 at 08:33 AM
Tonda, may I buy a vowel?
Posted by: Steven W
Sorry, you have to deal with Vanna for those. I tried out for that gig, but didn't have the legs for it.
Posted by: tonda | February 23, 2012 at 08:37 AM
Ha. this is a non-story.
The haredim didn't protest. Only the Chief Rabbi of Tel Aviv protested. (And as Rabbi, that is his job)
the haredi lawmakers "confidently predicted that the government wouldn't give the ok for this to go ahead".
If I confidently predict that Israel will wipe Iran's nuclear sites off the face of the earth in the next few months, does that mean I protest??
Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | February 23, 2012 at 08:48 AM
Posted by: Lubavitchers are Christians | February 23, 2012 at 08:48 AM
------
What's the difference between a Rabbi who gets his pay check from the seculars as an MK, and a Rabbi who gets his pay check from the seculars as a Rabbinate Rabbi?
I see no difference!
I can understand the seculars if they want to fire both.
They should be happy that the seculars are putting food on their table, and shut up. And not try to impose state runned clerical rule!
Posted by: מרדכי סטמר | February 23, 2012 at 08:59 AM