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February 07, 2012

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Realistic

Fucking Niddah laws Yemach Shemom vZichronom fuck & stink & are barbaric.

spacedout BT

As a BT who met OTD'ers while going in opposite directions: Its' sad you threw the baby out with the bath water. You could have discovered the beauty of Torah Judaisim thru Modern Orthodxy. Too bad your former neighborhood treifed the MO insitutions out of existence.

chany

It is true that there is little sex education in satmar. But I think that deborah takes all garbage from our community and highlites it as if its our only life. What about the precioucness of a Yiddishe Neshuma? What about our teaching that there is a world to comr@

FG:


I see that you are so obsessed with bedroom issues....


(I admit that I don't know, and also, I personally think that nature works just fine for healthy people)
Is there classes available -or necessary- how to perform in the bedroom, for "all" choson Kallah's who weren't born into our community?
And is it something the community needs to supply?

fg

Chaya Ruchy G.,
Also know that there is a gamara that you have to do it k'illu kofy shed, meaning you have to do it make believe a shed(ghost) is forcing you to do it.
so it really comes down to hashkafa. it seems deborhas teacher leaned more to the "k'illu kofy shed" gamara.

מרדכי סטמר

Fg:

I will tell you why I called you a punk....


Because even Feldman knew that in order "her" story should be red meat(and so THE picture of "our community should be "complete"), she "had" to "phrase" "everything" the way she did!

I too understand "why" she "misrepresented" "her" experience.


So, the only "punk" left here is YOU.....

Chaya Ruchy G.

Hey guys - When my husband learned "hilchos niddah in Kollel, I told him that he better learn it all the way, and he did! He sat through many many days at his dayan's office to learn the nuance of the subject, and now HE looks at my bedikos and panties. No Rabbi, no dayan: Hubby does it all.
Another point. When we first married, mt husband naturally wanted to explore my body fully, but I was uncomfortable and reluctant to let him. He showed me a gemura that tells the story of some Rabbi who told his daughters how to arouse their husband by making only their breasts available for play at first, and a while later let him play further down. I felt good after that, knowing that the gemura is all for it.

Shoshi

B:She is being asked:Satmar women are expected to shave their heads and wear wigs once they get married. But you didn’t keep up the first part? she let it fly by that its satmar
Its not Satmar its by all chassidc sects and even by many litivish who shave.

I've never heard that ALL Chasidic sects shave their heads. And I've certainly never heard of any Litvish women doing so. Does anyone else have experience or knowledge of this?

Shoshi

The "price" of not being "self isolated" and being "enlightened" so to speak, is nothing to compare to our price we are paying.

Freudian slip?

Shoshi

An older man offering candy is considered in her perverted mind as a pedophile.
Boy did she pull a fast one on Simon and Schuster
Posted by: Deremes | February 09, 2012 at 04:36 PM

So the traditional "candy man" at shul should maybe be called the "pedo man"?

I agree with her point that children shouldn't feel obligated to engage in conversation with adults they don't know or don't feel comfortable with. That does put them at risk.

But it is a far cry from assuming a friendly old man is necessarily a pedophile or that you shouldn't address older community members with respect.

Shoshi

Therfore, a typical willi girl will never eat out because our parents, the last generation would never take us in a resturant. in addition, there are NO better resturants in willi to eat. Notice the capital I in the quotation. its her experiance she is talking about that many women share. understood?

Posted by: fg | February 09, 2012 at 07:17 PM

Why only women, then? If it's frowned upon, men shouldn't/wouldn't do it either, right? Especially if there are no restaurants...

Shoshi

She never went to the library, yet she had library books.

That's just off the top of my head.

Posted by: Miriam | February 10, 2012 at 12:38 AM

This one about the library is strong, because it involves self-contradiction (rather than someone else's report). I think at the very least she is dramatizing and exaggerating and generalizing. At worst, she is straight out making a lot of this stuff up. Just my opinion, based on speculation, no inside info or anything.

fg

in willi there are khallhas that dont wear makeup on the day of thier wedding. deborha probably did it behind grandfathers back. the same scinerio with the library, behind everyones back.

the doctor thing i honestly dont understand. the medical centers in willi are jammed packed. But again, that was her isolated experiance that she simply recalls in a memior.

Miriam

Just FTR. She lied about her age. Girls in school with her will tell you that she was over 18. And her statement that 17 was considered old - please.

She lied about wearing makeup. Women who taught with her before she got married say she wore makeup every day.

She says she never went to the Dr. A friend from school remembers seeing her take antibiotics.

She never went to the library, yet she had library books.

That's just off the top of my head.

fg

Is it 'allowed' for men to go with casual colorful clothing in satmar? no it isnt. was it banned? no it wasnt. yet every one knows that its not allowed.

deborha restaurant comment was refering to the social norms of what is the ideal satmara way of life. its not going to help you when you make an issue out of semantics and zero in on her words and claiming that she should of used refrained and not disallowed.

anyways nice talkin to ya

fg

For example deborha said that she loves to eat out “because I was never allowed to do it. Women aren’t allowed to eat out.”
i put her argument in context. A williamsburg person would understands this very well. Resturants were never officialy banned but its somthing most individuals in the community frown upon it. Therfore, a typical willi girl will never eat out because our parents, the last generation would never take us in a resturant. in addition, there are NO better resturants in willi to eat. Notice the capital I in the quotation. its her experiance she is talking about that many women share. understood?

fg

Deremes,
a)Divorce can contribute to somone going of the derech. she doesnt claim divorce to be a causation, but rather there is only a correlation between divorce and leaving the faith.

b)She refered to satmar women having to shave there heads she never excluded other jews or hassidic sects. (so she didnt lie)

C) No one knows if she was the only one suffering in the bedroom. Neither do we or deborha know if other satmar couples are happy in bed. but what we do know is that sex education is minimal in satmar which deborha claimed in ruining her sex life. Where is she lying?

D) niddha has to do with satmar. Again she didnt include nor did she exclude other sects of judyism in keeping nidha. so for the hundreth's time that doesnt make her a liar.

You guys r so buisy with the cD. im sorry i dont have the date only a vague memory of the speakers name. But i have somthing that can prove deborhas point even better that english is viewed as tuma.
while folding my rebeinu tams tfilan i noticed small flyers on all tables notifying wiiamsburg of a compaign to boycut stores selling any type of english magsine. 3 weeks ago they threw out the omi magasine. now everything is banned. if u want evidence il e mail u copy.


Mordcha,
stop being defensive and calling me out on my english.(im satmar, blame my education.) please try to argue facts. for example you pint out a quote wher she lied, and i explain to you why its not a lie. you think u can stop calling me punk and stick to the arguments?

Deremes

More of how terrible life is being an orthodox Jew:
"As a young girl, she was ordered to obey and respect any and every adult in the community. Feldman said that this insular mindset paradoxically puts its children at risk. "There was this old man on my street who, every day on my way to school, would be sitting on this bench, and would call out to me and offer me candy," Feldman told the Post. "I told my grandfather, and he said, 'Well, he's older than you, so you have to talk to him out of respect.' The guy was, like, a pedophile," Feldman continues. "And we were taught to respect him."

Woo that's news to me that to respect older people is a no no in the secular world according to this looser and respect is taught only in the chassidic world.
An older man offering candy is considered in her perverted mind as a pedophile.
Boy did she pull a fast one on Simon and Schuster

מרדכי סטמר

Deremes:

Let me phrase it to you a little differently,


I'm not a paid PR guy and I don't waste a minute of my day writing (hard to understand, but when you will know how my days schedule is and how I write, its easily understood)
I'm doing it because I enjoy people and love debating people.

in shul or family gatherings, I will be the one driving conversations,

I love talking,reading and teasing too. And I enjoy giving a glimpse into our insulated community and setting the record straight,for people on the "outside" who are "told" what our community is all about.


I will be the first person to admit that "self isolation" comes "with" a price! ווי מען זאגט, ווען מען האקט האלץ פאלט שפענדליך,
and I'm trying to educate those people "outside" that the "price" is a very minimal price to sacrifice for the sake of continuing tradition and Toirah life,

The "price" of not being "self isolated" and being "enlightened" so to speak, is nothing to compare to our price we are paying.


Just look at the other news about the gentile who was buried at a "jewish" cemetery, they will consider someone who's only "affiliated" by civil union, as a "jew", just to have their false statistics about how many "conservative" jews are still around.
their assimilation rate is mind boggling!

However, when a punk from the inside, whom I would really consider as a "poster child" for our "price" we pay for self isolation.....
Comes here and deliberately distorts fact, masked with naivitate,
I won't give him the satisfaction,
Because in shul or by a chasinah I wouldn't speak to him either,because I would probably not gain from him any usable knowledge.

מרדכי סטמר

Deremes:

I will respond just out of respect for you.


I'm done with this crazy footsteps guy,
Who thinks that he is PLAYING dumb, but in fact IS a dumb person, and tries to imitate waiting4moshiach (I sometimes like his drivels....).

He's nothing more than a young "farmachta" kup, who probably wouldn't fit in anywhere you place him.

He intentionally plays naive and keeps saying I should be proud of stuff that I(satmar) never stand for,


If he doesn't get the difference ,if she would just say,that in Williamsburg "people" refrain themselves to eat in restaurants.
To what she actually said. That "women" aren't allowed to eat out. Than I can't reason with him,

Or when she would of said that observant jews keep hilchos nidha, to what she actually said , that "she" felt like an animal in the room.
Because she knew that it wouldn't be news worthy at all, let alone a book deal with a prestiges publishing company

Basically he's a total fraud, and new it right away!
I hinted it right in my first response to him.

You don't even have to wait for the tape of the shiur....

Annoyed

these comments are awesome! Fg u need to see a therapist. and an English teacher. Mordechai Satmar- Youre 100% right.
She is blowing things so out of proportion. From one interview to the next she contradicts herself. Im religious and reading the things she wrote, Id feel bad for her too if I thought it was all true!
____________________________________
)Are you 100% sure that debborhas kallha teacher did not forbid her from looking at her own and her husbands genitals because of halachic & tznious issues?

Seriously. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
Thats like saying Jewish girls arent allowed to use tampons because theyre not allowed to see whats going on down there.

Get A life Fg. What are you, Her publicist?

Deremes

fg,

Her LIES:

A: when she says "My ex-husband is so much less religious now. He cut his beard short, he wears jeans. It’s because there’s no room for divorced people in the community"
Unfortunately there are quite a bit of divorced man in the community and find place there.Its not an honor to be divorced in the wider world neither.

B:She is being asked:Satmar women are expected to shave their heads and wear wigs once they get married. But you didn’t keep up the first part? she let it fly by that its satmar
Its not Satmar its by all chassidc sects and even by many litivish who shave.

C:Bedroom stuff she is lying but i would like to keep it clean.

D:Nidah laws has nothing to do with satmar or chassidik.

E:"I remember always being in the front seat of a car when I was a kid, without a seat belt. It comes from this idea that you have so much faith that you don’t really have to do anything because God will protect you. It’s a very lackadaisical attitude toward health and safety. No one ever took me to a doctor."

Also has nothing to do with Satmar or chassidik that was her personal thing and why will something like this be in an interview.

You know full well what I said is true.

You have it all wrong when you think that that i or anyone is ashamed of following the Torah the contrary im very proud.
I am ashamed that a trash like this was brought up in the community.

So who is that rav who you claim "i recently listend to a shur in satmar shul, where the speaker pointed out that even when we or our wives have to speak english, it should be spoken with a jewish accent.
Can you get me the cd? hu?

fg

Deremes,
what is she lieing about? that jews are pious, tsniousdig, and dont stare at genitals, or that sex is an unspoken issue?

or perhaps,she is lying about jews keeping niddha and rabunem checking panties?

what the hell is she lying about? come on. be proud to be part of the chosen people and proudly aknowledge & embrace our holy lifestyle! there is nothing to be ashamed of.

Deremes

מרדכי סטמר
Superb and you should only see the comments on the NY Post how women from williamsburg agree with what you say and even more.

Bottom line,she is from a very dysfunctional family and she is a real nut job a very bitter person who feels that she is getting revenge at Jews because she had a rough upbringing. Besides the point that she must be an evil person to publish a book where she knows full well that her grandparents who brought her up fed and dressed her are very hurt about this.
Nidah laws is what all observant Jews follow no matter chassidic,litvish,modern.She can poke fun at it but please don't lie that its a chasidic thing.Besides,i would like to keep it clean she also LIES about other stuff about husband and wife.
For the life of it i cant figure out how a big corporation as Simon and schuster will sit with this whore(becuase shes like a whore who does stuff for money) and publish a book without checking any facts.
Shame on them.
מרדכי
You should write a well written letter to the Interviewer from the NY Post and challenge them with hard facts how she is nothing but a liar.

Est

Also, I'd just like to point out an inconsistency.

In the article in the post,Feldman states:

"Now, I am a pariah. It’s over. I’ll still go to Williamsburg, to have brunch with [non-Hasidic] friends and walk around. No one recognizes me."

Yet in an interview on the abc news website, Feldman states:

"Even after time has passed, she cannot go back to Williamsburg without facing judgment.

"Everyone recognizes me and knows me," she said."

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hasidic-jew-runs-orthodox-roots-arranged-marriage-child/story?id=15540395&page=2

So, which one is it, Deborah? Please keep your story straight.

totally insane

anyone remember gitty?
there are many more whey they came from. stay tuned.

fg

lets try this one more time.

1)Are you 100% sure that debborhas kallha teacher did not forbid her from looking at her own and her husbands genitals because of halachic & tznious issues?

2)isn't it true that sex education is minimal in satmar?

3)nidha laws made her feel like an animal did she say others do so as well?

4)we were taught that goyem hate us becaus of halacha yedia eisuv soina layakov, and that goyem are bad(al tistackle bifny udem rusha) didn't u learn that in cheder?

5)the leiby keletsky analogy is so simple. i dont know y u dont get it. leiby would never go into a goys car. never ever!he approached his murderer only because he had a yamrica. (its funny i just helped a alittle girl croos the street. do you think she would ask a goy next time?)

6)mollestation was always swept under the rug in hasidic communities. deborhas case wasnt te only one. (thank god time has changed and awareness in our community is being raised)

7)in a quick interview with the post she mentioned a curfew on "women". yes she meant 17-18 year olds which is red meat for the post cuz women these ages are legally independed

8) and lastly do u understand that there isnt a single bingle better, upper-scale, fancy, kosher resturant in williamsburg? Ten years ago a nice chinese resturant called "Mr Wok" closed down after a year. why? not because it was banned- only because there were no customers. wiili is a place for very frum people. how many satmarars with biber hats can u see dining out? Almost none.

And dont forget. Her book is memoir. she never portrays her self as an anthpologist with scientific data to prove her point all she is saying is, this is my experiance. I recognise your concern that the reader of this book may overgeneralise such as assuming all satmara have a misrable sex life, or dont go out to eat, when in fact there are hundreds of thousends of satmaras and u can find some of them even in strip clubs.
But meanwhile you can not prove to me that deborhas experiance is an isolated one. it is not.

Est

Can't wait to read the latest Kardashian novel!

I have a good name for you if you will....
Waiting4moshiach is waiting4moshiach......

מרדכי סטמר

You a total fraud!

Because you aren't interested in listenedding what I said, you didn't even understand what she was saying and what she wanted the new york post reader should take away from her interview,
I'm not defensive at all, actually you can read all my posts, and see that I am a staunch supporter of my community, without feeling defensive,


Again, look what I wrote and try to answer it, please "redt tzi mir tzi the zach". Do not side step or mushy around the bushes.

Again you are a total fraud!

fg

not everything is a ban some things are acultural phonominon. how many frum women with covered sheitlach do u c in better resturant. there isnt even a single better resturant in willi. a fancy resturant is like a bycicle no hasidic man in williamsburg will ride one even though it was never band.

when she says a curfew on women that doesnt mean all women all ages! a satmar chused will automatically unstand of what she talking about. and again stop being defensive! please.. a parent has the wright to impose curfews on thier daughters and so does a school have a wright. but the issue her is not if its justified-only if its true.

and eisuv soina lyakov is indeed true. we are taught that a foy is impure and that they hate us. the rest is left to childrens imagination.

fg

it is possible that she has an agenda by writing this book, but that doesnt make her a liar.

1) The issue her is mostly hashkufa not halucha. In reality satmar chusan kallha teachers give u only the basic information that led to deborhas sex being a disaster. again i dont know if she was the only misrable couple cuz i have no idea whats going on in other coupls bedroom. but her fundemental claim is true; sex education is minimal in satmar (im sure some couples figure everything out themselves)


And again her story is a very personal one, so yes it is essential and you have to come and listen to the shurem given to young boys and girls in the dingy basement of the satmar shul on keep street.(i still remember the speaker warning that sex should only be tops 3 times a week therby quoting the rambam that most deaths are sex related and very few are from natural causes.)

So when you come with quotes from the shilcun urech the question is how do the satmarers interpret them whats their hashkufa? and here is where deborha gives answers through the lense and scope of her experiance.

Again we should not change and stand up for who we are, but lets not get defensive.

מרדכי סטמר

(in fact i recently listend to a shur in satmar shul, where the speaker pointed out that even when we or our wives have to speak english, it should be spoken with a jewish accent.)
-------
I will call you out on this.one.
Please say the name of the speaker you heard it from, and the date of the shiur.
I'm 99 percent sure that you never heard it,
I will try to get an hold on the tape(most are recorded), and if its true , I will write it here for everyone to see that you were right.

But if you can't tell me the name. I will have to come to the conclusion that one foot(step) is covering another fott(step)

Don't tell me that he was bringing out the chashivas of mama lushen. Because this wasn't your point.
And don't tell me that you are proud of anything.

Fleishike Kishke

The picture of Deborah Feldman on FM doesn't flatter her, but the Forward's picture really does her justice. She is beautiful.

מרדכי סטמר

schmuck! she is not speaking about pizza stores or fleishiga takeouts/ restaurants. what she was referring to was better upscale resturant where you get served by a waiter, and in elegant dishes. if fact there are only two kosher resturants in williamsburk serving almost 15,000 families! and they are barely in buisness with owners switching frequently.
---------
Again she made out to be a "womens" issue! If anything, the super majority of people who sit in restaurants in williamsburg are the "women".
Do you know of any "ban" in williamsburg on eating in a restaurant that I don't know of? Tell me please.
And do you know how many "successful" restaurants (I "know" that its a very tough line to make money in) there is anywhere ?


understand her. know that some extremly frumma people hate to live and let others live. there mentality is kadeish otsmechu bmiter luch(become holy by obstaing even from things that are permitted).
------
I can only understand her.
If I will come to the conclusion that she's (I don't know her, and I didn't even ask around) a total insane person and mentally disturbed!
And a chronicle attention seeker. And someone who's biting the hands who fed her(her family) when she was a little rachmunis and was "valgering" from feter to feter.

Because from her interview with the post she comes across as a total wack job.


Again: on her I have no problem when people are taking cheap shots at her. Because her whole book and interview is one big huge cheap shot.

And only people who live and breath a whole day out of taking turns who could better aim a cheap shop at chariedim can enjoy her foolishness.

Posted by: fg | February 08, 2012 at 03:46 PM

מרדכי סטמר

4)we definately were made to believe that the gentile hates us according the law of eisuv soina layakov (decendents os eisuv will always hate decendent of jacob)
--------
I can't believe I'm still here with you....

Does this mean to imply that every goy is ready to cut every kliena yingela into pieces?
(This is a reference to antisemitism in general .and oh boy did we "yiddin" suffered from this halachah!)
Or is it told in every childrens book (I'm talking gentiles too) beware of "strangers"?


5)her grandfather suffered greatly in the hands of cops. u cant blame him for instill this into deborha
--------
Again she isn't selling her life story. Its a paint job by people with an agenda , and you know it. Nobody is interested what "her" zaideh had instilled in her, the post is here for red meat , and she even said that ,that's "why" it happened to lieby Kletzky.
What does Lieby Kletzky have to do with her zaideh?

. 6)when a crime happens in a hasidic neighborhood, u have hundreds of men running to the scene( google search riots in boro park). its somthing we as children learned to rely on and that when there is another jew somone got your back.
--------
So what exactly is your point?!
That yiddin are "also" ready to help when police officers are slow to respond?


7)the idea of a victem blaiming herself in a sexual assult is widespread even in wider society.
-----
So?

8)and yes, satmar school beis ruchal dasatmar(both aroinem and zaloinem) forbids 17-18 year old highschool girls being on the street after certain hours(with some exceptions when attending a friends wedding).
----------
She deliberately said that there is a curfew on "women"! Not 17-18 year old girls!
Because everyone(ok, not everyone) understands that a parent has the right to be concerned when girls are on the street late at night for no special reason. That's why she made it out to be a "womens" issue!

מרדכי סטמר

Mordchai im satmar and live in williamsburg every word she said is true!
some of her claims are not documented but well known in the community
-------------

I'm not in the he said she said business, but I will just go along with you, and point out where you are wrong with your understanding of what Feldman said and what I'm saying. (I said it before, you can just twist a minor thing and it becomes a whole new ball game)
(such as lectures given to grooms by the head of vad hachinuc of satmar)
--------
Have you learned hilchos Nidah before you were a chosen? No. So there comes in a lecture for "grooms".
"Marriage" lessons(Shulom beis) every father sends his Bucher to whomever he feels will best serve his son or daughter needs.


1)A man is never allowed to look on a womens genitals as mentioned in halacha.
-------
Feldman said, a woman is not allowed to look at "her own".


2)No one knows whats going on in hasidic bedrooms. Oral sex is a big "no no". I dont know a single kallha teacher that explains what an orgasm is to young teenage brides.
--------
I would love to skip this line altogether. But truth has to be told!
The halachah explicitly says כל מה שאדם רוצה לעשות יעשה "Anything and everything is permitted" and no one ever told you differently!
Of course if someone "wants" to be holy then you know how to be holy. But only with permission from your partner.
Explain what?!! Let nature do its work! What explaining are you talking about,dude


3)she felt offended by nidha laws. deborha never claimed everyone does feel the same
--------
My friend, she's not here to tell "her" story, farshtiest! Its a paint job!

And she didn't come out with a sefer arguing with halachah itself.
Its the community. dummy!

fg

Mordcha u r proving my point by pointing out my bad willi, satmar, english. Afterall, what can you expect of a boy who grew up knowing that english is impure? (in fact i recently listend to a shur in satmar shul, where the speaker pointed out that even when we or our wives have to speak english, it should be spoken with a jewish accent.)
The claims deborha makes in the Post interview are true and we should not deny them. We should acknowledge it, embrace it, and be proud of our traditions. But please dont call her a liar. I live this life; her portrayal of growing up in satmar can not be more accurately described.

מרדכי סטמר

At first,I wasn't going to answer you, because you totaly took me out of context.

It just shows why people are inclined to answer a cheap shot with a cheap shot...
.
Probably this is the reason why people are just trying to insult her Personally, because we aren't talking here, about a professor who studied our culture and came out with a professional book or findings, its just from a loser from loserland,being a puppet for people (footsteps)with a broad agenda against our community.(I know that they claim that they are only here to help those who leave. Crap).

For you Willyboy: let me let you in in a "secret" so you don't get offended and put down by "jews" outside your hood,

The stereotyping and fun making of jews, what you think is only directed against you.
Get yourself. "Farshaf dir" a few tapes from Jackie Mason and it will fascinate you, how stuff that you always thought is only going on in your "daled amos". Is actually "everywhere" (yidin) a routine.... and something that makes good humor....
----

Mordchai im satmar
----
That's why I was about to answer you in "yiddish", because english seems you don't have a grip on,
(I'm trying to excuse you for deliberately not quoting me,and you twisted my words) but then I was to play in in the hands of those ...you know whom I mean...

You should know that I wasn't saying that "her personal" experience is false , I started with me saying that I don't know her or her family.

And the reason she came out with a book , is NOT to tell "her personal life story", and I doubt that it would of interested anyone outside "footsteps", its what she wants to portray about our community "with" her personal story.

plus she childishly uses Halachah - taharas hamishpacha - that is accepted as jewish law by almost everyone until he/she goes of the derech completely- as something to make fun about "our" specific community.

Later.....

Jeff

Posted by: fg | February 08, 2012 at 03:46 PM

FG, thanks for posting this.

fg

Mordchai im satmar and live in williamsburg every word she said is true!some of her claims are not documented but well known in the community (such as lectures given to grooms by the head of vad hachinuc of satmar)

1)A man is never allowed to look on a womens genitals as mentioned in halacha.

2)No one knows whats going on in hasidic bedrooms. Oral sex is a big "no no". I dont know a single kallha teacher that explains what an orgasm is to young teenage brides.

3)she felt offended by nidha laws. deborha never claimed everyone does feel the same

4)we definately were made to believe that the gentile hates us according the law of eisuv soina layakov (decendents os eisuv will always hate decendent of jacob)

5)her grandfather suffered greatly in the hands of cops. u cant blame him for instill this into deborha.

6)when a crime happens in a hasidic neighborhood, u have hundreds of men running to the scene( google search riots in boro park). its somthing we as children learned to rely on and that when there is another jew somone got your back.

7)the idea of a victem blaiming herself in a sexual assult is widespread even in wider society.

8)and yes, satmar school beis ruchal dasatmar(both aroinem and zaloinem) forbids 17-18 year old highschool girls being on the street after certain hours(with some exceptions when attending a friends wedding).

schmuck! she is not speaking about pizza stores or fleishiga takeouts/ resturants. what she was referring to was better upscale resturant where you get served by a waiter, and in elegant dishes. if fact there are only two kosher resturants in williamsburk serving almost 15,000 families! and they are barely in buisness with owners switching frequently.

understand her. know that some extremly frumma people hate to live and let others live. there mentality is kadeish otsmechu bmiter luch(become holy by obstaing even from things that are permitted).

Fleishike Kishke

Pathetic frumma losers. Can't handle someone holding a mirror up to your pathetic "torah" lives. Rock on, Deborah. Looking forward to the read. Hope to meet you at a book signing.

joe shmoe

מדרכי סטמר

and you can add lie # 10
that you are not allowed to touch boobs

Sol

Manny.. I'm ready to learn from anyone about healthy relations even from you. And if you don't think this girl is mentally deranged there's something wrong with you. And I still think doing it in the dark is the better way in this case (when you'll see her in person you will agree) She surely suffered and is very bitter and needs help! I wish her lots of luck!

Friar Yid

My take is this broad has daddy and/or authority issues and doesn't feel comfortable without her ankles pinned somewhere south of her ears as she gets plowed by the next loser with a broken front teeth and two first names like Joe Bob or Billy Ray.

when you come off sounding like a total fraud it doesn't help impress people

Good point, sounding like a judgmental and chauvinistic yutz is so much more impressive.

I mean, who does this lady think she is, jumping all willy-nilly from a loveless marriage to a new relationship. Two men in 5 years? What a ho.

Malka Gittel

Good point yudel. Her experience is her experience, and there seems to be an automatic presumption here that where her experience differs in any way from the comment poster's experience, she must be lying.

It's also disturbing to me as a woman that a number of posters find that her looks or lack thereof are more important than anything she has to say. They'll attribute it to joking, if pressed, but they'd never make the same kind of comments about themselves.

yudel

I find it fascinating how none of think about how hard her life has been. Of course dysfunction plays are role but that does not mean in any way she is dysfunctional . Also the book is being published by Simon & Schuster and has all the big time national reviews. This book will be selling big time. The point is when you encounter something disturbing from the world you live in--normal folks generally step back and ask questions about the victim and also what kind of life am I living. Not here apparently. Lot of angry people writing here otherwise you would have focused a bit on her and her terrible troubles. This all has become a world where individuals are cast aside and rules trump human life. How did we get to level where our people cannot have enough strength to handle individuality? How is it that we cast away quickly those who do not fit in? And then we try to justify our actions with rules not the human heart.

Adam Neira

Such salacious tattle in cheap newspapers is to be expected but it is still disappointing.

Deborah Feldman, meet Luzer Twersky. I think we have a shidduch.

Posted by: taylor | February 07, 2012 at 09:13 PM

----------------------------

Best Comment ive read here! its such a good shidduch twersky & feldman, and whats most intresting, is feldmans ex-husbands looks just like luzer twersky

see these 2 photo links:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/07/article-2097763-11A04F31000005DC-251_468x286.jpg

http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/1292005423luzer_121010_380px.jpg

מרדכי סטמר

Point conceded.

Posted by: Rebitzman | February 07, 2012 at 07:32 PM
------
You are busy to prove that "you" don't believe(Feldman also says its not true) "the sheet" usage..

I was trying to point out , that no matter how much a chasid will try to prove that "the sheet" is a fabricated lie,( I heard that it originates from a movie, there a cop asks from another cop in Brooklyn, if its true) it will stay a matter of fact, and the chasid is lying out of shame or inconvenience.

So when you asked me to point out where she was lying, I answered you that there's no point, because in the end "I" will be the liar....

But out of respect for skepticalyid I will show you just a few, some you can prove yourself when you go visit williamsburg,some she just twisted but it makes a whole lot of a difference in the meaning. Some I can't prove you like "the sheet" ( I like calling it "the sheet" because this is how outside people referred to the issue when they asked me about it...)


1) There's no rule or halacha that a "woman" is not allowed to look at her private parts,(at least what I know of)


2)Her description what's going on in a chasidic bedroom is an outright lie,(I'm trying to keep it clean)

3) A nidah does NOT feel gross or the animal in the room, and asking a dayin is NOT disgusting (I heard that in the alter hiem there were women answering those questions,)


4) You were NOT made to believe that outsiders hated you(FM wasn't yet launched back when you were a little girl...just kidding).and will chop you into pieces.


5) Scared of cops! Give me a break!


6)Her whole lieby Kletzky story is twisted and stupidly laid blame on the boy not asking a cop for directions.
"Fellow chasid" just to besmirch chasidim, when in fact he was never a chasid, and for many years not even religious.


7) Teaching to talk and respect pedophiles because they are older, nut case!


8)Go visit williamsburg and tell me if you don't see women on the street at any given time of the day.


9)Go into any restaurant and see if there's no women inside "eating out", as she claims its forbidden

And there's SO much more .


Her biggest lie is....
The only way to fool a guy to be with her, is thru-how you guys like to call it- forced marriage....I doubt anyone in New orleans is showing any interest....(Sorry, it slipped out,)

Manny

Sol, sexual relations are not taboo, besides, why do you think the Creator made them so exhilarating when you have the right companion? To be enjoyed dumb dumb. Sol, I don't mean to be nasty to you either, but you are definitely sexually repressed and you are in no position to tell this girl or anyone whatsoever what healthy sex is all about. I on the same token recommend you to get some REAL help, not the brainwash cultist mentality help you usually get. Sayonara!

BiF

Barely Cares, well done! A diamond in the rough.

Sol

Hello Miss Bitter Feldman. Look into the mirror and u might understand why doing it in the dark is sometimes the better way to go about it. I don't mean to be nasty and I hate doing this to you but you surely need lots of help. I'm soory that things didn't work out for you and you had a rough upbringing, but remember u not the only that had it hard (try to think clean for one second)I'll Daven for you to get the right help, you can surely use it!!

Barely Cares


My take is this broad has daddy and/or authority issues and doesn't feel comfortable without her ankles pinned somewhere south of her ears as she gets plowed by the next loser with a broken front teeth and two first names like Joe Bob or Billy Ray. Like you want to 'leave the fold' that's cool and so you got divorced, no big deal, but when you come off sounding like a total fraud it doesn't help impress people that you've found yourself or a better life.

Posted by: BiF |
-------------------------------
2 first names?
Like Menachem Mendel?

Manny

@Posted by: ah pee

Are you a therapist who specializes in bringing people back into cults? Just wondering.

Manny

His loss, she is very cute. What she mentioned does not surprise me at all, it is typical in cultist lifestyles. These people have a real hard time thinking and making decisions by themselves. I am glad she left.

Yoel Mechanic

>We hear all these stories about Muslim extremists; how is this any better?

One comes to expect such shallow comparisons.

Isn't the whole issue these days with the
*political* ramifications of Islamicism?
Never mind that that Islamic clerics delayed the industrialization of Turkey and totally wrecked their empire; who ever liked the Ottoman's anyway? But when the rioting and threats of violence spill over
into real violence, car bombs, and
insurrection on a national scale we are
supposed to think this is equivalent to
the social radicalism of Williamsburg or
Mea Shearim? There's a reason the word
l'havidil is used.

Shmarya

Posted by: ah pee | February 07, 2012 at 09:30 PM

Please.

The CDC's info indicates that child sex abuse happens at the same frequency in the haredi community as it does out of it, and haredi attempts to cover up for pedophiles and the mesira law in reality probably make child sex abuse **more** common in haredi communities, not less common.

ah pee

i feel bad for her. She obviously had a bad experience. And she has found something that works for her, which is great. She still does many many mitzvahs, and the ones that are hard for her to relate to because of either her past, or her lack of sophistication, she doesn't keep. She is like most people in the world. But as a therapist, I must say that her chances of being sexually abused as a child, treated like a sex object by men, and not having tools to cope emotionally with what she is going through are far higher as a secular person, than as a religious one. The abuse of kids, and objectification of women in secular society is a real problem, and its funny to me that people flee the chassidic life to embrace this, which is clearly worse!

taylor

Deborah Feldman, meet Luzer Twersky. I think we have a shidduch.

Rebitzman

@Mordechai

New thread at head of FM that demands review

adams

I for one would read the book.
Probably a lot of rules are decided withhin the family or small Shteibel.

I belive for a while they were asking their young people to not mill about pizza stores so when that didn't work mabe they tried to ban women from eating out.

this is a nice positive development for human freedom from tyrany.

motti

I would gladly have sex with her and show her what she was missing out on for all those years

Confused

Why is she writing this book? To prove to the world she is not frum, so she dresses immodestly, eats treif, and has sex with a goy?

M O N E Y

Shoshi

. . .I asked around and I was like 2 of 1000 people that didn't know. . .

Posted by: BiF | February 07, 2012 at 05:40 PM

I don't get it--you were 2 of 1000 that didn't know WHAT?

Rebitzman

@Mordechai

In spite of many many articles and movies that say otherwise, I do concede that not a single Orthodox couple I know uses a sheet.

That said, there are far more Orthodox couple I know that I would never ask - I do not like bloody noses (especially when they are mine).

THAT said - my own study of Talmud (Nedarim 20a) would lead me to conclude that if the sheet is an actual custom at the fringe - it ain't the norm.

That in and of itself does not mean she's lying - but my own guess is that some goy saw a tallit katan hanging out to dry, mistook it for a sheet, saw the hole, and did the math.

Point conceded.

BiF

Bas Melech, don't kid yourself, Deb can suck a golf ball through a garden hose and lay back with a bear, which to me, that's a lady! Oh! (Hat tip Andrew Silverstein)

Bas Melech

You men are having a lot of fun with this post.
Question: Do some of the rabbis who inspect the cotton square have no reaction, because it comes from a woman?.....

SkepticalYid

Mordechai this has to be the stupidest comment you ever posted (and that's saying a lot). Rebitzman asked a reasonable question.

sam

no boob touching? no oral? hell, if she was my wife there would be no sex of any kind. period.

Waiting4Moshiach

So what happened? The New York Post and Rupert Murdoch used to be our friends. But I hear his son is with the arabs. Every chance they get they are mocking us. not like in the old days.

Yidden, remember: we cannot count on any goy to be our friend.

מרדכי סטמר

Be specific - where has she lied?


Posted by: Rebitzman | February 07, 2012 at 04:55 PM

You "know" that she's lying about the "sheet"....
Well, "everybody" knows that a "sheet" IS involved in all chasidic bedrooms.....
You won't "deny" it! Right? Will you dare?...


(Do you get my point?)

BiF

My take is this broad has daddy and/or authority issues and doesn't feel comfortable without her ankles pinned somewhere south of her ears as she gets plowed by the next loser with a broken front teeth and two first names like Joe Bob or Billy Ray. Like you want to 'leave the fold' that's cool and so you got divorced, no big deal, but when you come off sounding like a total fraud it doesn't help impress people that you've found yourself or a better life.

Turd Degree

I wonder if the Satmar Rebbe takes a whiff of the panties, just to be extra sure

Yes he does, but only if they belong to a young woman. Otherwise, he treats it as yoshon.

BiF

@Rebitzman | February 07, 2012 at 10:30 AM

Truse story : I was once in need of a psak on a certain stain, the rav I normally went to was on vacation so I went to another rav nearby and handed him the envelope, asked him to give it a looksee - he was red-faced as he refused the envelope; I asked why and he told me he was color blind. I asked around and I was like 2 of 1000 people that didn't know. Well don't I feel like the friggin icehole. That was one of the last times I played smell the square cloth ifyaknowhatimean.

Shoshi

Does she envision herself as the next Naomi Ragen?

Posted by: Bas Melech | February 07, 2012 at 05:28 PM

Based on the article, it seems she thinks she is the next Kardashian.

Bas Melech

Thinking this over it looks like she had or still has deep mental problems the reason i think so is that she went out of her way with a vengeance to hit back tottly against everything she stood for,"

Posted by: jancsipista | February 07, 2012 at 03:18 PM

I agree.
Why is she writing this book? To prove to the world she is not frum, so she dresses immodestly, eats treif, and has sex with a goy?

Her life style seems more trashy than frei.

A misconception by the frumma is that the frei and goyim have indiscriminate sex and lead a racy life.

If she went to a store and saw an immodest dress she liked and bought it --ok. However, it seems that she goes out of her way to buy immodest clothing and say, "look what I'm wearing now!" The same goes with her eating treif.

Feldman will learn that to the goyim she will still be "the little Jewish girl," even if she is not frum.

Does she envision herself as the next Naomi Ragen?

Rebitzman

why does she feel that she "must" resort to verifiable outright lies in order to make her case

Be specific - where has she lied?

Skepticalyid

She does admit that her father was below averagw intelligence and that her mom left the community whilst leaving her with the grandparents. Perhaps the story is more complex then she (or her publisher) is leting on.

they would eat shit if it takes that to make money. Posted by: jancsipista | February 07, 2012 at 03:49 PM
-----
You and all know, that no monies is changing hands in this process!

Dan, vus haksti a chienik?!

jancsipista

Malka Gitte-Since theese rebbis have no self respect when it comes to making money its all money, they would eat shit if it takes that to make money.

Confused

Sex sells! She is not the first and certainly will not be the last to get on the gravy train.

מרדכי סטמר

I don't know her family and obviously -as someone pointed out- people who are so called losers in any community, are more willing to - and feel they must - leave where they are, and start a new life.


But, what I can't comprehend, why does she feel that she "must" resort to verifiable outright lies in order to make her case?!

The chasidic life style is hard enough- at least for outsiders to understand- to live by, and people would of "understood" that not each and everyone who is born into this community (there's lots of misfits in williamsburg) is willing and able to continue this way of life,

To prove my point that she's a rebel just for the sake of being a rebel,
That she had to go "all in"!
Wouldn't it serve her better and for her family she - she said-still cares for, to enroll in a different form of jewish life?


Like my ziadeh used to say,
פארדארבען קען א קאץ אויך...To spoil something, a cat can also be reliable...


Yeh: the chasidim are instilling tremendous fear of "strangers" non chasidics, and that why a chasidic child leiby kletzky was "cut into pieces" by a "fellow chasid"! Outrageous!

Malka Gittel

I can't help thinking that if I were a rabbi the whole panty business is a job I just wouldn't want. You'd think they'd find an excuse to make this a rebbitzin's thing. There's nothing sexy about the average woman's used underwear. This is not the community keeping Victoria's Secret in business.

jancsipista

Thinking this over it looks like she had or still has deep mental problems the reason i think so is that she went out of her way with a vengeance to hit back tottly against everything she stood for, maybee its a family problem her mother left frumkeit its all in the family seems to me.

Althelion

I agree with danny, the rabbinical panty inspection is very fucked up along the same lines as metzitzah bepeh

Eli

Deremes, all your talk of sex is getting' me kinda hot and horny... You're SUCH a teaser, you are!

Fact

despite her white-washing, Mikva ≠ Spa!

Google this, different view

Deremes

Posted by: Malka Gittel | February 07, 2012 at 02:53 PM.

EXACTLY the point i made when i said "I have no clue where shes getting off how things are being done in the bedroom.
Seems like she had a frustrated marriage.
In other words shes lying not only about the boob part."
I suppose i didn't say it clear enough that this was the case in her bedroom.
In any-case like everything else she says some truth and many many lies and i pointed out some of it.
But all of you go ahead and comment on stuff that isn't so and the stuff that IS as she said is not ONLY by frum Jews who live in Brooklyn.But being the liar that she is she makes a point that that is the case only in Satmar but in reality hilchas niddah is observed not only in Satmar.

David Lerner

I'm tired of the bold. Is this better?

Malka Gittel

Deremes -- She may not be accurate about all frumma sex. but who's to say that she's not accurate about sex with her husband?

There's a LOT of bad sex out there. Frum men can (and sometimes are) certainly part of it. She's not the first ex-frum woman I've heard from/of with similar complaints.

Confused

Abandoned by a mother who left the faith and a father who was mentally disabled, she was taken in by her grandparents

I knew there had to be something here. Sounded like there were psychological issues at play.

Confused

Someone did not close their tags.

danny

The rabbinical panty inspection is one of the most creepy, fucked up things I have ever heard. It's just plain sick.

fg

Deborha is a hero by identifying the extremist views on sex in contemporary judisem. oral sex is viewed as dirty and prohibited even though mimonides states a man may do with his wife what ever he pleases.. The well known halacha that sex should be done as being forced by a ghost, explains the mentality of rabbinic authorities.

TheRealJoe

By the way for those the read the article in the actual NY Post, you would see that they paid for her designer clothing she wear;s for the photo shoot on Marcy Ave. So much for her great new life,I guess she isn't exactly in the 1%.

Althelion

I gotta believe there are people who have a frummie sex fetish. To them, niddah; painties in a ziploc; total darkness; etc. is a total turn-on. It's yiddish s & m with a bissel b & d. Rabbi as master; rebbetzin as mistress. Shmarya, we need an expose'.

tonda

A disfunctional unit within a set can be decribed as f(-x) or -f(x)

so
f(C), where C = cult, = -C
and
f(F), where F = family, = -F

therefore f(C)*f(F)>0

So mathematically it's proven that being a disfunctional family member within a disfunctional cult can only result in a positive result.

ruvi

I can understand partly why she left ( not really ) but to drop so low...... You can go modern ortho but to the bottom... she must have been some kid....

corn popper

Hey shes entitled to make it up as she goes along - just like Boteach.

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