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February 13, 2012

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Forty Eighter

Actually Shmarya you are wrong with your analysis. There is absolutly a difference if the worms were ingested live by the fish or if they hatched within its flesh. The talmud clearly permits eating worms who hatch within the flesh of the fish. The problem arose because some people believed that worms that where showing up in the cans of sardines are of the type that were ingested by the fish and found its way into the can through improper removal of the intestines. Since they are very similar species to the one found in the fish's flesh there was no way to know if this was true. But with the DNA test iw was determined that the worms found in the cans are of the permitted type. Good work by the OU, and Bon Apetit to everyone else.

Yom Tov

"That hyper scrutiny has created a whole new range of foods orthodox jews cannot eat or can eat,but only by paying very inflated prices for special kosher brands".Very well said.
.Of course in the ortodox world,everything comes down to a scam to make more money out of the mass of non thinking herd.

Bassy the Haredi Slayer

They're perfectly safe to eat as long as they've been cooked or frozen first.

So what about sushi?

A E ANDERSON | Auckland, New Zealand

Apologies for the Synoptic Gospel allusion. :-(

A E ANDERSON | Auckland, New Zealand

Sounds like more in the Driving-a-Camel-through-the-eye-of-a-Needle Dept.

Steven W

Reminds me that once upon a time visiting the museum on Ellis Island, there was a poster in Yiddish signed by some rabbis saying that they could not vouch for the kashrut of the food on the 'vyat shtar' line except for the sardines. Could not fathom eating only sardines for an entire crossing.

rebitzman

..............something Jewish law never imagined.

Trying to get investors together to start selling tallit katans with 813 knot tzitzits, because if 613 is religious............

Haimish McHorny

It infuriates me how these folks are sold bullshit fairy tales by people who know, or at least suspect, that the fairy tales are just that.

Still, the ends justify the means don't they and when you are saving precious Jewish souls no wickedness is beyond the pale. No perversion is too extreme.

David

How do you file a bug report on a religious belief?

Posted by: John Nagle, Silicon Valley, CA | February 13, 2012 at 06:07 PM

Take it to the Rav....

The problem is that the frumma simply don't understand just how much of their thinking comes from flawed goyishe thinking of the time. The Church eventually came around to believe in the indisputable scientific facts but the frumma never did (e.g. they still believe in a geocentric model of the universe and this was further reinforced by the late (current?) Lubavitcher Rebbe). The Catholic Church abandoned opposition to geocentrism by about the first half of the 18th century and apologised for the persecution of Galileo in 1992.

John Nagle, Silicon Valley, CA

Of course. The kosher definitions are based on the "spontaneous generation" theory. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation). This is a misconception that goes back to at least Aristotle: "Now there is one property that animals are found to have in common with plants. For some plants are generated from the seed of plants, whilst other plants are self-generated through the formation of some elemental principle similar to a seed; and of these latter plants some derive their nutriment from the ground, whilst others grow inside other plants, as is mentioned, by the way, in my treatise on Botany. So with animals, some spring from parent animals according to their kind, whilst others grow spontaneously and not from kindred stock; and of these instances of spontaneous generation some come from putrefying earth or vegetable matter, as is the case with a number of insects, while others are spontaneously generated in the inside of animals out of the secretions of their several organs." This was mainstream thinking until the 17th century. Pasteur is famous for disproving it, and microscopes finally made it clear how bacteria were involved.

How do you file a bug report on a religious belief?

WoolSilkCotton

The fact that frumma have this kind of arcane silly bullshit to occupy their time with only further underscores their irrelevance to the real world.

Nishtaneh Hateva!

Rabbi Belsky explains why the sardine worms are kosher. He bases it on Chulin 67b, which states that worms in the flesh of a fish are kosher, since they grew there and were not ingested. This is based on the idea, also found in hilchos shabbos, that insects can grow on their own, without sexual reproduction. With this in mind, the rabbis don't consider such worms or bugs to be actual insects.
http://www.oukosher.org/pdf/daf19-8f.pdf

The problem is that scientifically this is not true. Neither bugs nor worms grow on their own!

David

The more they look for things of this nature, the more they'll find.

Soon, there will be no food that is kosher enough for the frumma to eat.

Haimish McHorny

Thank God for science.....

Jon

Yes presumably they match the DNA with that of known samples.

Shoshi

How does DNA testing determine whether the fish are from the flesh or the intestines? Is it that different types of worms would be found in different places?

Waiting4Moshiach

Careful Yidden will not open up a can of worms when it comes to Kashrut.

Malka Gittel

I knew there was a reason I have never liked sardines...

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