Satmar Rebbe Attacks Belzer Rebbe Over Violence

During Hanukkah the Belzer Rebbe made a muted statement against violence by saying that not everyone was fit to fight the wars of God, and that haredim must concentrate on building their own communities and lives. “If there are those among us who believe they will spread the light of Yiddishkheit through violence, they are mistaken.” Rabbi Zalman Teitelbaum, one of the two Satmar rebbes, responded at a fundraising dinner held for his institutions by condemning the Belzer Rebbe's words and endorsing violence. Satmar is thought to finance most of the violence and demonstrations committed by Eidah Charedis and the Sicarii gang.

Rabbi Zalman Teitelbaum, Williamsburg Satmar Rebbe

Originally published at 9:24 pm CST 1-14-2012.

Here it is in Hebrew on Ladaat.net.

Here's a very brief audio recording of Rabbi Zalman Teitelbaum's pro-violence speech. Please click the gray bar to listen:

 

Satmar Rebbe Zalman Teitelbaum supporting haredi violence January 2012

 

[Hat Tip: Burich.]

Comments

[Robert Wisler]

Ah, the glorious legacy of Joel Teitlebaum....

[Not Simple]

and endorsing violence

I would LOVE to see his exact words.

[netflix]

Joel Titlebaum in my opinion was the opposite of a Tzadik, and fittingly, this nonsense, and these lowlifes are his legacy.

[Shmarya]

I would LOVE to see his exact words.

Posted by: Not Simple | January 14, 2012 at 09:27 PM

Simpleton, you have a link there. Follow it and you'll see some of them.

[A. Nuran]

Sounds like Satmar is a terrorist and seditious organization. It certainly promotes and funds terrorism. Many of Israel's most active terrorists are members.

Not all Satmar chassidim are terrorists?
Neither are all Hamas supporters.

[Not Simple]

Simpleton, you have a link there. Follow it and you'll see some of them.

Posted by: Shmarya | January 14, 2012 at 09:30 PM

I did not click on it since it did say that it was in hebrew. If you have an english source or you would care to enlighten us with what was said it would be appreciated.

[the usual chaim]

if satmar funds actions against the state of israel and non-haredi israelis then wouldn't that make them either a terrorist organization or of channeling funds to one? couldn't the umbrella organization be prosecuted in this country on that account just like muslim groups that channel funds to muslim terrorist groups are?

[Malka Gittel]

Surprise, surprise.

[seymour]

what is the big deal they beat the shit out of each other the satmer

no surprise here

[Max]

This is an old fight, going back decades, between Belz and Satmar-Zalman Leib. It began when Belz pulled out of the Eidah Hachareidis, and continued when Belz created their own Hechsher as a competition to the Eidah.

In addition, Belz takes money from the government, and Belzer Chasidim accept welfare from the Israeli Government, something that Satmar and the Eidah HaChareidis abhor. (Satmar, the Eidah HaChareidis, Meah Shearim, sikrikim, and Neturei Karta all refuse to accept any money from the government)

In addition, this needs to be understood in the context of the Satmar feud between Zalman Leib and Ahron. Ahron (the older brother) married the Vizhnitzer Rebbe's daughter, and became a brother-in-law with the Belzer Rebbe (also married to another daughter of the Vizhnitzer Rebbe). Because Vizhnitz (and Belz) take money from the government, and vote in elections, many parts of Satmar began distancing themselves from Ahron, and instead formed a rival group under the leadership of Zalman Leib (the younger brother) who is considered more anti-Zionist.

Today, Ahron and Zalman Leib lead their respective Satmar factions. This audio soundbite is of Zalman Leib (the younger, more anti-Zionist, brother) dissing the Belzer Rebbe (who just so happens to be his rival's brother-in-law anf fellow Zionist.)

This puts some perspective into this entire decades-long fight.

[Shlomo ben Dovid]

Yoel Teitelbaum, the spiritual father of neturai karta and satmar, left a legacy of Sinat Chinam against fellow Jews who were Zionists.
Zalman Teitelbaum certainly is continuing this despicable tradition as indicated in this posting. We Jews need Ahavat Chinam to our fellow Jews. We do not need the baseless hatred emanating from these satmar leaders.

[chaim]

he is not "endorsing" violence.

shmarya, you dont know yiddish

[chaim]

basically he quoted another rebbe (i assume it is belz)
the belzer rebbe said that if we add kedusha etc. that will offset the "tumah" coming from the other side.

the satmar rebbe said that would only work if the other side is not trying to meddle and force the chareidim to change its way of life.

he said, why does it bother anyone if in chareid areas they want separation of genders.

nothing he said "endorses" violence

[Shmarya]

basically he quoted another rebbe (i assume it is belz)
the belzer rebbe said that if we add kedusha etc. that will offset the "tumah" coming from the other side.

the satmar rebbe said that would only work if the other side is not trying to meddle and force the chareidim to change its way of life.

he said, why does it bother anyone if in chareid areas they want separation of genders.

nothing he said "endorses" violence

Posted by: chaim | January 14, 2012 at 11:02 PM

Please.

The Belzer Rebbe spoke out against violence.

The Satmar Rebbe answered by trying to REFUTE the hashkafic point made by the Belzer Rebbe.

He does that in a way that clearly means the opposite – violence – is what must be done.

Only someone wholly unaware of the context these remarks were made in and who is also dishonest or dull would think this was not an endorsement of violence.

[SkepticalYid]

I wonder if the other Satmar Rebbe will endorse the Belzer's comments. The two of them usually do take opposite stands on major issues. Kind of like the two popes during the Catholic schism.

[YWN]

To chaim: of course he meant Belz
read this:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=113006

Belzer Rebbe Shlita Speaks Out Against Increasing Chareidi Violence

Speaking at Chanukah candle lighting, the Belzer Rebbe Shlita released a statement against the escalating violence from within the chareidi tzibur. The rebbe stated “If there are those among us who believe they will spread the light of Yiddishkheit through violence, they are mistaken”.

Taking part in the hadlokas neiros was Minister of Education Gideon Saar, who added that Avraham Avinu also worked to bring people closer to Hashem, but did so through gently trying to attract others, not seeking to achieve his goal with violence, which the minister added “hasn’t a chance of succeeding”.

[Belz]

Satmar Dayon Zalmen Leib Fillip Bashing Belz Rebbe and his Chasidus

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwjkGYVjbxs

[fyg]

Reb Yoilish had nothing with the neture karta, and the neture karta today has nothing to o with either faction of satmar.

[ruthie]

satmar satmar satmar
years ago i asked a very well known woman here in monsey, from a huge satmar family...why didn't g-d make a tish a bav for the holocaust?
she slapped me hard across my face and called me an apikoros.
i proceeded to go home, never said one harsh word back to her, just went home, and ask what that word meant.
my family was very kind....they started out gently....
well...ruthie....there was once a man in greece...
i got it.
violence...satmar...no lol

[seymour]

did people forget the brawls against/with chabad

just go to youtube and see many stories of violence amongst satmar

[Gefilte Fish]

I refuse to have anything to do with Satmar. No contributions, no buying of products that have their hashgachot, nothing. Their hashgacha, incidentally, is worthless---they have been caught selling outright TREIF to non-Satmar.

[A. Nuran]

Ruthie, the funny thing is that Epicurus' philosophy is all about honesty, modesty, contemplation, moderation and the search for truths.

[jancsipista]

one thing about satmerers and i know it first hand i was in ther grip for over a decade violence is their trade mark as a child in heder out rebbi got his way by hitting us this is how they enforce their will.violence and satmer are like a horse and a carriage you cany have one without the other,they are the most despicable group of hassidim that exists today on this planet the neturei are an ofshoot of the satmerers.

[Yissy-CA]

(Israeli) Belzer chassidim are also encouraged to get jobs (not sure how many do) and are not forbidden from military service.

[Zalman is a Moron]

This man can barely form a coherent thought, or even complete a sentence.

He tries to make the argument that one can only elevate the holy in lieu of destroying the profane when they are separate.

But, in Israel the holy and profane have been intertwined therefore the only option there is to destroy the profane in order to save the holy.

He quotes "some rebbe" in a mocking tone as having said otherwise.

So, to the streets! Don't forget the striped pajamas and stars!

[jancsipista]

Zalman is a Moron-I think they should put horns on their heads a bunch of beasts they are

[ruthie]

A. Nuran,
thank you so much for teaching me this. long overdue...but makes me feel much better.

[Nigritude Ultramarine]

Joel Titlebaum in my opinion was the opposite of a Tzadik, and fittingly, this nonsense, and these lowlifes are his legacy.

How can you besmirch the memory of the man who gave the world bullet-proof women's hosiery? He was the Eli Whitney of his day.

I'm tearing kriah now.

[berele]

ה' הוא מלכנו ולו אנו עבדים
התורה היא חוקותינו ובה אנו מאמינים
ה' הוא מלכנו ולו אנו עבדים
התורה הקדושה היא חיינו ולה אנו משועבדים .
בשלטון הכופרים אין אנו מאמינים - אין אנו מאמינים
ובחוקותיהם אין אנו מתחשבים - אין אנו מתחשבים
בדרך התורה נלך באש ובמים
בדרך התורה נלך לקדש שם שמים -
אוי - לקדש שם שמים!

[Yochanan Lavie]

From Google translate, for the benefit of those who don't know Hebrew:

God is our King if we are slaves
The Torah is Hokotino which we believe
God is our King if we are slaves
Torah is our life and her we are enslaved.
Infidel rule we do not believe - we do not believe
And laws are based do not we take into account - we do not take into account
Prevail go through fire and water
Prevail go to sanctify God's name -
Oh - to sanctify God's name

[Dovid]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - there is no connection between NK and Satmar. NK is not even a chassidishe group.

I guess I thought Jancipista knew all about Satmar, but apparently he does not not.

[jancsipista]

Dovid-it a no brainer that they are a propduct od satmer philosophy and by the way they are the same family geneologically brothers

[Deremes]

jancsipista knows nothing besides name calling,venting and cursing all day long.

[jancsipista]

Deremes- it takes one to know one di azes punim

Let's hold our breath and see how soon Shmarya will post the holy zionist's court decision and the transcript of the release of the Rabbi's personal assistant.... I understand that Shmarya will need more then a grain of salt to digest....

[Shmarya]

Let's hold our breath and see how soon Shmarya will post the holy zionist's court decision and the transcript of the release of the Rabbi's personal assistant.... I understand that Shmarya will need more then a grain of salt to digest....

Posted by: | January 15, 2012 at 06:38 PM

Idiot.

If and when this information becomes available, I'll post it.

But I suspect it is YOU who will be in need of much help processing the truth.

Basically the judge reaffirms what we all know deep down,
That the arrest of the gabbi was just to show the charidim who the boss in shtetl is...

And I-just an average Yankele- have the transcript of the decision,and the high esteemed "journalist" Shmarya can't place his hands on it... What a joke!

[Shmarya]

You're lying.

Transcripts are NOT available same day, and the only judge this alleged thief would have seen is a magistrate who would have ruled on detention before trial – nothing more, nothing less.

[shish]

Posted by: Max | January 14, 2012 at 10:31 PM

fantastic commentary....thanks for that

[Dovid]

Sorry jancipista, you don't know what you're talking about re. NK and Satmar. I guess I foolishly assumed you did.

[Shalom]

Here is a basic but fairly accurate translation of Reb Zalman's diatribe:

"I saw, I was shown something that a Rebbe spoke this Chanukah who said there is a Yerushalmi [Talmud that discusses lighting]...will say that [there is the principle of] 'decreases and continues'..[or] 'adding and continues'...it is a known [Talmudic] discussion, there are [rabbinic commentaries/]books that dispute if one should fight ('shlugen' -- in Yiddish also means 'to hit') with the forces of impurity to make them weaker...by adding to the powers of holiness and thereby the powers of impurity will automatically get weaker.

[R Zalman in a mocking tone goes on:] So [this Rebbe] says, 'who needs to fight ('shlugen') with the powers/forces of impurity? one needs to add [more] Torah [study], add prayer, add sanctification of [one's] actions.'

[R Zalman then continuing seriously:] This is all true when 'adding' is only within holiness, if one adds to the holiness then the forces of impurity get weaker ('shvacher'). But [when] the forces of impurity and forces of purity are all one/unified/mixed together [R Zalman's implying that the other Rebbe is 'united' with the 'impure' ones] [and] it's all a linking of evil ones ('kesher reshuim') it is impossible to say that 'by adding to the forces of purity that it will weaken the forces of impurity.'

One could think that [it's as if] [R Zalman saying sarcastically:]'the fight here, that there is something here whereby they [meaning the secular Israelis] want to make impurity [only] in their places for what they are doing.' Nu, [R Zalman, mocking the suggestion of the other Rebbe, that:] [so, Chasidish] Jews lives secluded/separate, [they] occupy themselves with Torah, occupy themselves with holiness, that 'the forces of impurity will [somehow] get weaker.'

[Rather, what really happens,] the forces of impurity come to fight ('shlugen') with the forces of holiness. [Still,] [R Zalman now switches to defending Chasidim:] what will it matter [to them]/[why do they care] that [Chasidish] Jews behave with tznius ('modesty') that [religious] ways have been established so that [Chasidish] Jews can walk on the streets [and not fall afoul of] 'thou shalt not follow the [lures] of your heart and after the [lures] of your eyes' [so that Chasidish] Jews should be able to walk in holiness?

It's the same [with], there are buses that travel that they [the secular Israelis] can go secular ('frei'), they come in and they want to break [down] this [as well]. [So does that] mean [R Zalman switches to being cynical again:] that I must 'add to the forces of holiness' and that one is [therefore, somehow] not allowed to fight with/against this?

[R Zalman raises his pitch of complaints:] So much so, that I heard from someone in the Chasidishe neighborhoods, someone who lives there, that there were signs/posters [that had been put up] that indicated that men should not go where both men and women walk [to keep away the men and women walking together] near a [Chasidish] synagogue ('bais medrash') so they [people against the Chasidim] took down all the signs/posters. Why? [R Zalman switching to taunting the implication of the words of the Rebbe he is attacking:] because [of what] they shout [about] 'the forces of impurity' [about which they] have [been] misled from the ability to see the separation/separateness of the [Chasidishe] Jewish children, [as if] it's/is it a lost cause and so [we should] just surrender? [R Zalman driving home his taunt of the other Rebbe:] Not just must there be/must I surrender/give up, but he [the other Rebbe] is/becomes one/unified with them.

He [the other Rebbe] has lost! He has lost the whole power/force ('koach') of making the [R Zalman quoting self-righteously from the the Saturday night havdala ceremony blessings:] 'separation/differentiating between pure and impure, the holy and the profane/secular' ('chol')."

[western jew]

Rabbi wars are my favorite past time in America.

[rebeljew]

We know that tzadikim are the mere emanation of G-d's will on earth, being perfect in righteousness. And we know that all Rebbe's and religious leaders are tzadikim. Does it not follow logically that krigt G-t mit G-t?

I have a different answer. It says that in the days before Moshiach, the whole world will be turned to "minut", which means sectarian Jewish cults that have their own non-normative ideas about halacha and hashkafa in Judaism. Our final test before the coming of Moshiach is to uproot and reject these minim. Otherwise, we are truly not worthy.