Neturei Karta To Demonstrate Worldwide Against Israel While Wearing Yellow Holocaust Stars

"The present incarceration of Torah-true Jews, beating etc. is not the sole event that brought the G-d-fearing Jews to such a desperate display", said Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss of Neturei Karta International. "The present event is not an isolated event or some new policy of the State of Israel being perpetrated against the G-d-fearing religious community. It is only part of the long and ongoing battle between Zionism and the State of Israel with the Torah-true Jews."

A haredi child wearing yellow star during an anti-government demonstration by haredim in Jerusalem Saturday night. The child was posed for the cameras with his arms raised to match a famous picture of a Jewish child surrendering to the Nazis in the Warsaw ghetto.

Orthodox Jews to Protest Israel Wearing Yellow "Jude" Stars - TODAY

NEW YORK, Jan. 5, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Torah-true Jews will be gathering to demonstrate in front of Israeli consulates, in U.S.A., Canada and England. The protesters will don concentration camp clothing with the reviled "yellow star" pinned on their garments, to express their cry of desperation and to show solidarity with their brethren in the Holy Land, who demonstrated in Jerusalem this past Saturday night. Thousands of elders and children took to the streets of Jerusalem garbed in concentration camp clothing and yellow Stars of David pinned on their chests.

"The present incarceration of Torah-true Jews, beating etc. is not the sole event that brought the G-d-fearing Jews to such a desperate display", said Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss of Neturei Karta International. "The present event is not an isolated event or some new policy of the State of Israel being perpetrated against the G-d-fearing religious community. It is only part of the long and ongoing battle between Zionism and the State of Israel with the Torah-true Jews."

"The ideology of Zionism is both the transformation of Judaism from religion and subservience to the Almighty, to base material nationalism, and a plan to end our Heavenly-decreed exile through our own actions. Both of these concepts are totally contradictory to the true Jewish belief. The Almighty alone will bring our redemption. We are expressly forbidden to take any action to end exile."

"Therefore, all the great sages and leaders of Judaism in past generations, have stood in total opposition to Zionism and the existence of the State of 'Israel'. Zionism works with all its power to totally eradicate, Heaven forbid, these true Jewish beliefs. To Torah-true Jews, their Jewish beliefs take precedence over their lives. Therefore, these Jews have undergone a long chain of suffering, imprisonment and letting their blood be spilt in this battle. The present events are just one more link in the long chain of the Zionist campaign in their attempted abolishment of the true Jewish faith."

"Therefore, our brethren in Jerusalem demonstrated their anguish and pain by wearing the yellow star and striped Holocaust clothes."

"We stand with them in solidarity."

"May we merit to see, soon in our days, the revelation of the glory of the Almighty, when all the nations will serve the Almighty in peace and harmony. Amen."

Jewish Rabbis and laymen will demonstrate in front of the Israeli consulates, TODAY: Thursday, January 5, 2012

NEW YORK CITY: 800 second Avenue [between 42 and 43] at 3:00 pm, followed by a march to the United Nations [First and 43]

LONDON:  2 Palace Green, London W8 4QB, at 2:30 pm

MONTREAL: 1 Westmount Square, Westmount, Quebec, at 2:45 pm

Comments

[Garnel Ironheart]

First, could you stop printing that picture? It's really offensive, okay?
Secondly, is there any way to slip haloperidol or another anti-psychotic into the Mea Shearim water supply?

[flat earth]

I know what my kid is gonna be for Halloween next year.

[jancsipista]

hahaha this dovid weiss is a circus performer i would say toreh fake jews not toreh true what an imbacile shameless, theese nk and his contemporaries just exist for one thing to cause as much trouble and disunity among jews as possible they were born to cause mayhem and pain for themselfs and all of jewery end of story

[seymour]

the sad irony is they are using the Holocaust the biggest blood bath in Jewish history the somehow show the world that Israel causes harm and spill blood to Jews

th Holocaust was before Israel or maybe they do not know that

[seymour]

maybe I will go from Brooklyn to counter demonstrate what do people thing or is that giving them what they want

[Bas Melech]

theese nk

The correct spelling is these.

I know that many of you were deprived an adequate English education. As a teacher this basic spelling mistake bothers me. I correct you out of love, so you won't endure embarrassment when writing in other venues.

[jancsipista]

seymour- theese bozos are so out of their minds that they cant even understand basic things like self respect they are almost not even human they create for themselfs a situation where the mind or intelect is nonexistant they take others for tottal fools they think others cant figure them out they actually begging to have a fight so others can beat them and then they cray look the zinists and nonfrum jews did to them comparing others to unspeakable evil like natzis they absolutly left their sense in the toilet they became monsters.

[Confused]

Neturei Karta are to be ignored, marginalized, they will do almost anything to get press attention. Ignore them and maybe they will go away.

[AztecQueen2000]

How many members of the "evil secular government" also descended from Holocaust survivors? This whole demonstration shows both poor taste and poor judgement.

[Hal]

Have some sympathy for this guy. He was raised in a charedi environment, probably screamed at by rabbis his whole childhood, denied proper diet, fed with fanaticism, etc. The system creates lunatics. What's interesting to me is how the charedi world is being embarrassed in front of the whole world now. Of course, they don't see it that way. They just go into their persecution complex bit.

[Sad]

Very sadly, many chareidim may be innocent, brain-damaged victims of metzitzah b'peh, as postulated by Dr. Zenilman, the infectious disease specialist at Johns Hopkins Hospital. MBP may be the root cause of this mess.

[Bas Melech]

NK have no idea what Jews suffered under the Neurenberg Laws. They don't study history, especially during and prior to the Holocaust.
If the Neureberg Laws were what they are presently enduring, they would be living in paradise.

NK and followers use isolated facts to support their misery. They never thought that the State would exist so long. They are frustrated, and therefore,they fight harder to preserve their way of life.

In addition, they create new rules and chumrahs. NK go to great lengths to prove that they are not Zionists. For example, making alliances with Iran and women dressing like Muslims are just 2 examples.

[Yaakov]

When I see this picture it makes me think that poor child is a hostage of his charedi parents and community. I can't forget that they chose to dress him up that way, and made him raise his hands.

[jancsipista]

Sad-hahahaha thats a good one:))

[ruthie]

bas melech,
i'm sure you meant it kindly...
1. i am not an american and english is not my first language.
my writing is ok at times...and sometimes...not as good as i wish.
2. there are people among readers of this blog that have survived wars...and deeply regret not being educated..
3. many reasons....
it still hurts when you criticize ...believe me.
and some people bas melech...are not computer literate...some may be elderly....but all are trying.

[Bas Melech]

"When I see this picture it makes me think that poor child is a hostage of his charedi parents and community. I can't forget that they chose to dress him up that way, and made him raise his hands."

Posted by: Yaakov | January 05, 2012 at 11:52 AM

Yaakv,
He is being raised by parents who were raised like him. He is no more a hostage to his parents than other children are to their own parents' beliefs.

Unfortunately, the parents do not understand the meaning of the attire, other than to anger their opponents.

Most of MK and their supporters are true believers.

[danny]

I guess they've gone Godwin in a global way.

[Bas Melech]

The real NK proudly trace their ancestors to before the Balfour Declaration or WWII. They never suffered in the Holocaust.

[Yaakov]

Bas Melech:

Those who have escaped the charedi life would disagree with you. He is being intentionally kept in ignorance to prevent "defection" to modernity.

It is not easy to say, but I think this is a form of child abuse. I have my own children, and would surely resist other people telling me something similar, but, I must say it because after a great deal of reflection, I think it is true.

It's not just a choice of lifestyle, it is a source of suffering for the children.

[Bas Melech]

ruthie | January 05, 2012 at 12:09 PM

I apologize if I offended you or anybody else. Very often I have been requested to correct both spoken and written English errors. I understand that people make computer errors and typos. I do too. I was correcting an error I've seen made many times by the same people.

[seymour]

The real NK proudly trace their ancestors to before the Balfour Declaration or WWII. They never suffered in the Holocaust.

Posted by: Bas Melech | January 05, 2012 at 12:15 PM

Weiss is a boro park boy and his family does not approve of any thing his is doing they are not NK
\
he did not grow up isolated but like many boro park kids

[Bas Melech]

Those who have escaped the charedi life would disagree with you. He is being intentionally kept in ignorance to prevent "defection" to modernity.

Yaakov, I TOTALLY AGREE that they are kept ignorant intentionally. Also, I think that their numbers remain constant or increase because of birthrate. Many NK and sympathizers do leave when they get the courage to do so.

[Ben Levi]

To try and paint Neturei Karta as representitive of chareidi jewry is offensive to say the least.
These lunatics who claim to be members of chareidi jewry have been excommunicated and kicked out of every single community they have tried to attach themselves to.
I personally am aquainted with a prominent chareidi family which unfortunatley has a member of these lunatics amongst them the way they have dealt with it is to make clear that this "man" is not wanted at any family functions what so ever, when my freind was married his reletive was not sent an invitation.
When I asked why such an extreme response? It was explained to me that some things are beyond the pale, and those that will demonstrate with the murderers of jewish men, women, and children are not part of our family.
Furthermore it was asked of a prominent elderly American Rosh Yeshiva what the position of the Satmar Rebbe zt"l (who the NK claim to be their ideological"father") was regarding their actions.
The response given was that this Rosh Yeshiva vividly remembers a specific incident where Satmar was to hold a demonstration against Zionism in Manhattan but then hostilities broke out in Isreal.
The Rebbe ordered the demonstration canceled.
When asked why, he replied " we are oppposed to the State on Halachic grounds and oppose it with all our might, however at this time when the lives of Jews are at stake we cannot demonstrate against them rather we cannot allow anti-semites to see a glimmer of diunity amongst us"/
So this small group of NK represent nobody other then themselves.
As for why the Rabbonim have not condemned them, it's pretty simple these hooligans have been kicked out of our camp decades ago and everyone knows it.
This leaves us with the uncomfortable question as to why in the world would someone try and represent the actions of those that were disowned decades ago as representitive of Chareidim as a whole.
Can it be deliberate, can there be those who are deliberatley attempting to use the actions of hooligans to tar a whole community?
That increasingly is the mindset of Chareidi Jewry to the point where a Godol recently let out a statement that it is pointless even attemopting to ansewer the accusations as it is obvious from the outset that there is no on willing to listen to the response.

[Yaakov]

Ben Levi:

Who is characterizing Neturei Karta as "charedi"?

[Hal]

Ben Levi, read the other entries on this blog. There are all kinds of goodies about non-neturi karta charedi insantity. I was in the charedi world for 25 years. I saw it every day.

[jancsipista]

Ben Levi-i dont beleive what you wrote it is just shirking the duty of the sect the satmeres disowing them means nothing the apple doesnt fall far from its tree and there are theese days many more apples like the beit shemesh incidents , if the community wouldhound theese misfits as much as it does the zionists and the nonfrum then things wouldnt of gotten so out of hand you are just tryuing to shake off resposibilty thats all.

[effie]

I don't know what theese idiots hope to accomplish. They are already hated for their demonstrations against Israel and for Israel's and the US's enemies. Exploiting the yellow star will only make people despise them even more than they already do.

[Bas Melech]

Seymour,
I was referring to the Yerushalmi NK.

[moshy]

write the truth satmer is provides funds to neturei karta torah true jews org. they always fundraise in all the satmer shuls

[Yaakov]

We need a taxonomy so it is clear that it doesn't matter if there are distinctions among the various subspecies of the zealots.

Something like:

Kingdom: Religious
Phylum: Deist
Class: Abrahamic
Order: Sinatic
Family: Jewish
Genus: Orthodox
Species: Ultra
Subspecies: various

So, a charedi Jew would be O. ultra charedi, while a Neturei Karta Jew would be O. ultra neturei karta, thus demonstrating the minor difference.

[seymour]

the only way to deal with this is to scream and tell everybody Jews and non Jews that these people are our Westboro Baptist Church and have been excommunicated from our mist

not only us but more so out leaders

maybe a few well placed ads in newsapers

[ah-pee-chorus]

the 'badatz' hechsher from the eidah chareidit which includes the vile NK is sought by many frum jews. the very same jews would never buy a german car even though germany is one of israels biggest defenders, pays and has paid reparations, and doesnt tolerate any exploitation of the holocaust or its imagery. yet these frummies ,including many MO just adore the badatz symbol of kashrus even as it lines the pocket of the most disgusting anti-israel , holocaust demeaning pigs .
something sure aint kosher.

[Deremes]

write the truth satmer is provides funds to neturei karta torah true jews org. they always fundraise in all the satmer shuls

Posted by: moshy | January 05, 2012 at 01:04

There is NO foundraising in ANY satmar shul for the Neturei Karta.

[Yaakov]

I used to avoid German cars. Then I met Germans, and found them to be very good people. Now I drive a BMW.

I suppose that marks me as an antisemite in some circles. Too bad.

It's a great car, and I bought it from a German. Lovely guy, still correspond with him.

[Ruthie]

Bas melech...
Huge difference....
Someone asking you for help and stating to those of you who were deprived of an adequate education....
Sounded a bit cold....

You did offend me. No big deal.
The subject of this article way eclipses our brief comments.
How can they wear stars???? Jude??? What?
If I could I would kill them, because I am certain any dialogue would be COMPLETELY and utterly useless.

[Yaakov]

Ruthie:

You would not kill them.

[Deremes]

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | January 05, 2012 at 01:24 PM

The Edah Hachareidis and the NK are at odds for many many years and the NK do not listen or care what the Edah Hachareidis has to say whatsoever so there goes your knowledge on this topic.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Yaakov: I have a friend who was raised among survivors. He visited Germany as a young man because he was intrigued to know what kind of people they are. He found them to be just ordinary people. He now has German friends and goes there once a year. The Germans are not racially evil, but Nazism is an evil ideology. I buy German products. I would rather support today's non-Nazi Germans than support NK, which gives aid and comfort to those who want to kill us.

[ruthie]

probably not...

[Yaakov]

Yochanan:

I recently had occasion to meet a pair of young Germans (less than 30 years old). They were very uncomfortable talking to me at first. They didn't know, and had never met any Jews. They recognized that I was a religious Jew and they proactively apologized to me for the holocaust. I thanked them.

I said, "I know that you had nothing to do with it, but I can see that you have internalized the terrible nature of it. I believe I have less to fear from your generation than from zealots among my own people."

Then, I apologized to them for Dresden. I said, "Dresden was an atrocity. It was intentional murder of civilian men, women, and children; as well as the destruction of important parts of the good in German culture. Just as you have no reason, nor the standing, to apologize to me for the holocaust; I will apologize to you for something my nation did to your ancestors."

They were very greatly relieved of a subliminal burden they carried. They told me they were were happy to have been able to talk to me, and they thanked me.

[ruthie]

yochanan lavie,
yes.....you have a very valid point. i like visiting germany.
but there are still people who won't buy a BMW.
in any case, the famous architect, daniel libeskind, when he was building the jewish museum in berlin...
he was living there with his three chidren. he and his wife...this was a few years back...
did not allow the kids to speak with anyone over the age...of i think it was 60...65...not sure.
everyone else was fine.

[ah-pee-chorus]

Deremes -

if im wrong i apologize. i thought there was a mutual connection.

in any case, the eidah is evil on their own in their anti zionist stance.

[Dons]

Deremes and Ben Levi:

You say that those spitting in catholic priests are a minotiry; the ones bashing little girls are a minority; the ones "politely" convincing women to go to the back are a minority, the ones covering uo for paedophiles are a minority and so the list goes on...

But put together all the minorities plus the absence of severe public condemnation and you have a worrying sign

I am yet to see widespread REAL and SEVERE public condemnation from the chareidi leadership of such acts

please enlighten me if I am wrong

[ex-chasid26]

Hi everyone,
I am a frequent reader but I rarely post here. I just hung up with one of my closest childhood friends who is going to attend those protests. on a personal level I actually admire this guy because he survived (to some extend) a disastrous childhood life. Any ideas of what I can say to him to change his mind.

[jancsipista]

ex-chasid26- tell him that he is making a spectacle of himself those demonstrators are the laughting stock of the nonjews and tel him to come to his sense and not go after the rest like a robot to think for himself just a little.

[seymour]

Any ideas of what I can say to him to change his mind.

Posted by: ex-chasid26 | January 05, 2012 at 01:54 PM

maybe tell him to go to the holocaust museum and ask him to really think and compare the two

[Yaakov]

ex-chasid26:

I am not sure I can give too much practical advice but I would say this: try to engender empathy in your friend. When someone realizes that all people share the "human experience", it makes a dramatic difference in what they think is right and wrong.

It you can look at any person, and really think: "That could be me!", then things look different. It is the insularity and tribalism that do the most damage. It's really OK to be "proud" of your tribe, but it is not OK to say, "my tribe is 'people'" and all those others are like the animals.

I know this is abstract, but it is fundamental.

[Dons]

ex-chasid26, think you should ask him how would he feel if he were a survivor and people everytime used Ha-Shoah to protest something they disagree

And Deremes and Ben Levi, just a personal question, how do you feel about the protest held in Jerusalem? (maybe you answered already, but I don't remember)

[zelig]

Yak 11:52, “When I see this picture it makes me think that poor child is a hostage”

Isn’t mandatory IDF service a form of torture?.
Isn’t uprooting morocon, yemen, children (without parents knowing there whereabouts) hodtage taking? . Educating million of “jewish children” to an education of No torah! No eminu Torture!
Isn’t torture for millions of Palestinians livin in ‘their land’ under apartheid?

[ah-pee-chorus]

Any ideas of what I can say to him to change his mind.

Posted by: ex-chasid26 |

not that it will help, but tell him how bad this is for the jewish people. i despise haredism and the NK, but i wouldnt protest against them in america. its the wrong place. and even if i were in israel and wanted to protest against haredim for denying me my rights, i would never stoop so low as to compare the situation to what jews endured in the shoah. and tell him i say FU, GARBAGE.

[zelig]

Yak 12:17, “It's not just a choice of lifestyle, it is a source of suffering for the children.”

Are Christianity and Muslim beliefs in the absurd a choice of suffering? Is the teaching of creation a choice of suffering? Is taking small children to being baptized a choice of suffering? Is telling the truth ‘no matter how uncomfortable” a choice of suffering? Is the torah who asks us to remember what amelike did, a choice of suffering?

Is your hate spewing daily comments your choice? Or is it just your day job ???

[jancsipista]

zelig-according to you 2 wrongs make a right right?

[ah-pee-chorus]

zelig - scaring children with thoughts of god and hell is child abuse no matter what religion.

[zelig]

Yak 12:36, “Who is characterizing Neturei Karta as "charedi"?”

What makes one chareidi? Is it someone like you who equates chareidim to Nazis?

[jancsipista]

zelig- no one forces you to read or come here there are acceptable degrees of suffering, i see youre full of hate that is also a form of suffering go get help di shoite.

[zelig]

Yak 1:08 “We need a taxonomy”

I would suggest you get a Lobotomy first.

[Rebitzman]

@Ben Levi

"He's not a REAL Charedi" is an argument I generally only hear from evangelical Christians........

It's lame when they offer it too.

[Yaakov]

zelig:

I never said, "torture", I said "hostage". I assume the parents aren't torturing the child, rather they are abusing him mentally.

However, even it I had said that, national service is not torture, it is part of being a citizen. Mistreating children in service to a racist ideology is abusive, and shouldn't be done.

"Torah" education with no secular education, in the charedi world is, in my opinion, no better than a secular education without Torah education in the chiloni world. In fact, it is probably worse because it makes the people who get it into social invalids.

Many things that Israel does to the Palestinians are terrible, and should not be done, full stop.

However, since this isn't a dilemma, even if there are many bad things done by others it doesn't answer the abuse being done to that child, and those like him, among the ultra-orthodox.

But you already know that two wrongs don't cancel each other, and you don't care if you can pretend that they do.

[ruthie]

seymour,
both ideas are great..
1. the ads...there's potential in that. i mean, we are all over
the international print media etc.
omg
2. excellent idea...he should go to a museum.
sadly, the majority of these idiots will say it's all staged.
not calling your friend, exchaid26, an idiot.
but c'mon.
3. i can barely write ...this is paralyzing..
i feel mostly for the survivors who are reading, hearing and seeing all this. bet so many of them have given money to hasidic yeshivas, heck! built yeshivas... no more. money is already being withheld.

[Moshe]

The Midrash at the beginning of Eichah refers to Neturai Karta and also to the opposite – Charovei Karta – destroyers of the city – how appropriate.

[zelig]

Yak 1:27, “Then I met Germans, and found them to be very good people.”

You should wash your mouth with German soap (made from your father, if you’re jewish) before you say words like that! Maybe you’ll have an awakening !!!

[ah-pee-chorus]

Isn’t mandatory IDF service a form of torture?.

if a democratically elected govt. requires that all participate in the countrys defense via serving in the army then it is the will of the people and a shared responsibility, albeit an unpleasant one.
is paying taxes torture?

Isn’t uprooting morocon, yemen, children (without parents knowing there whereabouts) hodtage taking?

who is condoning such actions?

Isn’t torture for millions of Palestinians livin in ‘their land’ under apartheid?

you should look up what apartheid means.
those that know disagree.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new_york/black_group_defends_israel_against_charge_apartheid

[Dons]

Zelig, mandatory IDF service is a matter of State survival, what would be the other choice?

[ah-pee-chorus]

is someone actually claiming NK are not charedi? thats funny.

[ruthie]

zelig....we understand

[Yaakov]

zelig:

You and I are not going to agree on much. If it makes you feel better to attack and belittle me, have at it. I will just leave you to it.

Zie gezunt.

[zelig]

Yak 1:47, “They (the germans) were very greatly relieved of a subliminal burden they carried. They told me they were were happy to have been able to talk to me, and they thanked me.”

That’s because Israel is their client state and source of appeasement to the world after the holocaust, what a poetic justice!

[ah-pee-chorus]

zelig-

since youre so concerned about apartheid, why dont you go protest all the arab countries which dont allow jews to be citizens. now THATS apartheid.

[ruthie]

yaakov...i missed that!

[zelig]

Yak 2:01, “but it is not OK to say, "my tribe is 'people'" and all those others are like the animals.I know this is abstract, but it is fundamental.”

What you say is more like stupidity not abstract! In your twisted mind the chaeridim are like Nazis, and the Nazis are like Zionist (read, normal people)

[Dons]

Zelig, please motherfucker, what the hell is wrong with you? You're a pretty fucked up person aren't you?

[jancsipista]

zelig- go get help before its too late, youre fixation and hate of israel is annhilating youre judgement you are very very disturbed

[zelig]

Yak 2:27 “You and I are not going to agree on much.”

It is not possible to agree with someone pretends to be Jewish and of sound mind! Calling charedim Nazis, Germans normal people! A religious Jewish (or, otherwise) up bringing suffering! Spewing hate and innuendoes on innocent people (who 99+% of them) don’t even know you or your host FM exist and can’t even defend them self’s! All in a days work that probably Joseph Goebeles would envy!

[Dons]

"All in a days work that probably Joseph
Goebeles would envy!"
Posted by: zelig | January 05, 2012 at 02:46 PM

???? Do you what he did?????

either you're VERY ignorant and stupid or it's a hell of pms you're suffering

[Yaakov]

zelig:

I forgive you for that now, so you won't need to worry about it come Yom Kippur. You don't, and probably can't understand what I am saying but you should be careful. Another Jew might not forgive so readily. You have the responsibility to judge favorably.

I never called anyone a Nazi. I spoke of certain actions, in all cases. I am talking about what people do, you are just accusing me without basis. Nowhere can you show me to be a Zionist, because I am not one. And, so far as "pretending to be Jewish", perhaps you should apologize to the memory of my family that lived in Makow Mazweiki, six miles from Treblinka, all of which are now gone.

You are angry, I can see that, but you have no right to take that anger out on me. I believe that the charedim, as a class, have perverted Torah and now live a life of error, that is my opinion. You can disagree but I have no idea at all where you get the chutzpah to say that I am not a Jew. You should be ashamed.

I do forgive you though, so whatever your fate it will not be on account of me.

[Yaakov]

Dons:

You should leave zelig alone. He's very angry and he really does believe I am evil. Arguing with him would be lifnei iver, and besides, he appears to be distressed.

I dont' think we can help but no need to make it worse.

[Yaakov]

ruthie:

What did you miss?

[Dons]

Yakoov, I have lost relatives, as you have. I, however, leave that "I forgive" talk to my christian friends, I would love to get to know this motherfucker....

[Proton Soup]

this NK stunt has a distinctly W4M flavor to it

[Yaakov]

Dons:

I do forgive him because I wouldn't want him to come to the Yamim Araim and remember this without being able to ask me for machilah.

[ruthie]

yaakov,
i'm just too upset over all this...jewish children wearing the yellow star..omg
maybe i'll write more later..

perhaps you should apologize to the memory of my family that lived in Makow Mazweiki, six miles from Treblinka, all of which are now gone.
i'm SO SO sorry yaakov

[Yaakov]

ruthie

Thanks. I've processed this, some time ago. The holocaust makes me very sad, but I won't let it run my life.

I hope you feel better soon.

[jancsipista]

this zelig is rambling on like rabid diseased animal this intense hate is consuming him from inside out what as i wrote before he cannot think starigh Yaakov wrote it best a realizing he lived a life of eror he is even more vengeful.

[Korbendallas72]

Everyone has disowned the NK and everyone knows it. Everything they do has a staged element to it because it's for the sake of the press.

I'd never buy a German car. I feel disgusted just riding in one. That said, those are donated German submarines patrolling the coast of Israel.

You'll notice that the enemies of Israel have been silent on the issue of Haredi exclusion. They can't figure out what exactly the problem is.

The Haredim don't have many tactics and their echo-chamber mentality deprives them of any new ideas. This kind of intellectual interference isn't going to work anymore.

[SkepticalYid]

My aunt is a Holocaust survivor. She was hospitalized recently. During her stay , there was another woman sharing the room. Her roommate was visited by a 30ish German man one day, who stopped to chat with my aunt. When he realized she was a Survivor he fell to his knees and asked her for her forgiveness for all the pain and suffering that was inflicted upon her. She answered him by saying something to the effect of of "You don't need any forgiveness, you weren't even born then."

This gentleman's actions indicate something very positive about the young Germans and the education they've received regarding the Holocaust Perhaps it also explains why Prime Minister Merkel works so hard to help Survivors financially.

The tragedy is that the current generation of Germans is far more concerned about Survivors than the Jewish Organizations who sit on billions of dollars in restitution funds and share next to nothing with the Survivors for whom it was intended.

[Rachel]

"Something like:
•Kingdom: Religious
•Phylum: Deist
•Class: Abrahamic
•Order: Sinatic
•Family: Jewish
•Genus: Orthodox
•Species: Ultra
•Subspecies: various

So, a charedi Jew would be O. ultra charedi, while a Neturei Karta Jew would be O. ultra neturei karta, thus demonstrating the minor difference."

As a former baal Teshuva (for 5 1/2 years; 1 1/2 of those I was learning in a baal teshuva seminary in a Charedi neighborhood of Jerusalem). I would like you to consider the possability that the majority of secular Jews and non-jews (I now have many non-jewish friends, not acquaintances, so I speak from experience) do not see differences. Litvash, chassidish (satmar vs. chabbad) are all the same to them. They don't know the difference with the types of hats, or lenghth of peots, etc. In fact, anyone wearing black and white look the same to them.

•Kingdom: Religious
•Phylum: Deist
•Class: Abrahamic
•Order: Sinatic
•Family: Jewish
•Genus: Orthodox
•Species: Ultra/Charedi (anyone wearing black and white) vs. Modern
•Subspecies: NK or Sephardi/Litvash/Chabad/ or whatever rebbe you identify your self with etc...

Charedi is anyone wearing black and white You might see the minor differnce but consider that world is not sensitive to your nuances.

Unfortuatly the majority of the Charedi world, even the modorn orthodox world, do not interact intimately with non-jews or secular Jews so they can not truly grasp how they occur to the outsider. How can they? keeping Shabbat and Kashrot keeps the American orthodox Jew socially isolated.

Sadly, the ultra-orthodox who are not educated with secular subjects or exposed to the secular/non jewish world are even further removed. Their perspective of the goyim is so distorted; they cannot see it though.

To all of the orthodox on this site, you might see the difference but consider that the non-orthodox do not know or see the same nuances.

I speak from experince. I used to live among you; I went to weddings where men and woman had separte entrances, not just separte seating or dancing. I sat at Shabbos tables where men and woman were in separte rooms.

[ruthie]

skeptical yid,
thanks for that lovely story.
i hope your aunt is feeling better

[Chicago Sam]

Yaakov, I have enjoyed reading your thoughtful posts; you add a level of civility and insight rarely seen at this website.

I would encourage you not to worry about pleasing or convincing everyone; differing opinions (being what they are) make almost any kind of dialoguing interesting.

I personally find that critics here a FM often give a perspective that can enrich a discussion.

It's always interesting to see how the other person thinks. For that reason, I find that Haredi participants at this website give us an opportunity to talk sechel with them, assuming such an enterprise is possible. Some folks might think it's a waste of time, while others find it mildly entertaining. For me, it's important to understand how other people think . . .

Keep up the great posting!

[Yaakov]

Chicago Sam:

Thanks for the kind words.

—Yaakov

[jancsipista]

Chicago Sam-you write its important for you to see how other people think, well i say how other people dont think:)

[SkepticalYid]

@Ruthie: she is much better. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

@yaakov: I love your taxonomy, but IMO some of these extremists fall in Kingdom Monera ;-)

[Betzalel]

Rachel said, "Sadly, the ultra-orthodox who are not educated with secular subjects or exposed to the secular/non jewish world are even further removed. Their perspective of the goyim is so distorted; they cannot see it though."

This is correct. From the ultra-orthodox Jewish perspective, goyim are evil villain cartoon characters, always trying to figure out how to make life miserable for the Yidden.

If ultra-Orthodox Jews would only understand that the goyim are generally only interested in getting drunk at bars and having one night stands, they would be less paranoid.

[Yaakov]

Rachel:

I set up the taxonomy so it would reflect self-indentity. Many groups want to insist that they are different than the other (enemy) group. But, we see all of the zealots as O. ultra with the subspecies being small differences to everyone bu the adherents.

[Yoel Mechanic]

Neturei Karta are to be ignored, marginalized, they will do almost anything to get press attention. Ignore them and maybe they will go away.

Posted by: Confused | January 05, 2012 at 11:31 AM
------------------------------------

Good idea! The flip side is that Chareidi bashing, particularly on this issue, will only make things worse.

And while we are at it: call off this holocaust imagery during demonstrations! It just encourages chareidi bashing.

[western jew]

History has now a listing for Cheebs.
This is a jew who wants to wear a yellow star of david for the sake of protesting their own perceived mistreatment by another group of jews or anyone else.
This basically means Cheap Heeb.

[western jew]

An Anthem of the Cheeb

Dirty soul of mine
An eagle will eat my eyes
A gerbil will dine on my innards
I have no turkey gizzard
I work in the paradise of life
And the life is blessed and smooth
Yet to you I disclaim foul
And I envy your cat's meow
But in truth its my own dignity that is beneath the day
And I suffer because I hate my own lay
So good news I wrote a new piece of uniform
And here I sit wearing a prison jersey and a golden jewish star
I love my own filth and vermin
And I dine on the vacuum of my own love of that Hitler the German
So good news for the victims of the holocaust that I hate (sort of)
I have worn your suit to ask for a new flute and a bottle of whiskey to drown my sorrow
So if you dont see me today and dont want to see me tomorrow
Build yourself a furnace and remember that I wanted your loot
I am a Jew with a golden star of david on my lapel
I put it there myself and I went straight to hell

[Chicago Sam]

What I find so disturbing about the Holocaust is how they turn sacred memory of those killed into something so banal, to be used for a public relations gimmick.

When the Palestinians do this, I am not surprised, the Haredi-NK cartel are disgusting, and bereft of shame and memory

[western jew]

They grow their peyos down to the bottom of their necks and they don't even know how to hold a yad.

[Chicago Sam]

Correction (Sorry!)

What I find so disturbing about the NK's cynical use of Holocaust imagery is how they turn sacred memory of those killed into something so banal, to be used for a public relations gimmick.

When the Palestinians do this, I am not surprised, the Haredi-NK cartel are disgusting, and bereft of shame and memory

[ruthie]

chicago sam,
so true.
so deep.
so sad.
so surreal...