Hasidic Groups Issue Wedding Restrictions

Large Hasidic movements – such as Ger, Vizhnitz, Satmar, Sanz and Belz – recently issued special rules aimed at cutting wedding costs. The Sanz movement, for example, released a book of rules presenting the maximum prices the bride and groom's families should pay for each wedding clause in order to save tens of thousands of shekels. Here are a few examples…

Haredi sector cutting wedding costs
Hasidic movements issue special rules aimed at helping bride and groom's families save tens of thousands of shekels
Ofer Petersburg • Ynet

The cost of an average wedding in Israel may reach some NIS 100,000 (about $26,750) – a sum not every family can afford, especially with the recent social protest. The ultra-Orthodox sector has found a way to cut these expenses.
 
Large Hasidic movements – such as Ger, Vizhnitz, Satmar, Sanz and Belz – recently issued special rules aimed at cutting wedding costs. The Sanz movement, for example, released a book of rules presenting the maximum prices the bride and groom's families should pay for each wedding clause in order to save tens of thousands of shekels.

The expenses begin as early as the matchmaking stage. Matchmaking fees, for example, have been limited to NIS 3,700 ($990), and the engagement party must cost up to NIS 800 ($215). Up to NIS 500 ($135) can be spent on a bouquet of flowers for Shabbat, preferably a synthetic one. So far, the families have saved some NIS 6,500-7,500 ($1,740-2,010).
 
In the groom's gifts chapter, the maximum sums are NIS 400 ($110) for a luxury watch, NIS 2,490 ($665) for the Orders of the Mishna, NIS 950 ($255) for a set of Shulchan Aruch books, NIS 800 ($215) for a goblet with a saucer and NIS 400 ($110) for a Passover set of books or a tefillin and tallit case.
 
There is a general restriction of six gifts and NIS 7,000 ($1,870) for the groom, and the bride's parents are expected to save NIS 12,000-15,000 ($3,200-4,000).
 
In the bride's gifts chapter, the maximum tariff is NIS 600 ($160) for a watch, NIS 2,600 ($700) for a gold necklace, NIS 2,400 ($642) for a bracelet, NIS 1,500 ($400) for a gold ring with a semi-precious stone, NIS 500 ($135) for pearls and NIS 600 ($160) for a set of holiday prayer books.
 
And there is a non-financial restriction on a pair of candlesticks: They must weigh up to half a kilogram (1.1 pounds) and be up to 33 centimeters (13 inches) high.
 
The total sum spent on gifts is limited to NIS 10,000 ($2,675). The groom's parents are expected to save NIS 15,000-17,000 ($4,014-4,550). Other gifts between the in-laws have also been limited.

In the Shabbat Chatan and Shabbat Kallah customs, the restrictions include throwing small bags with a selection of almonds, raisins and sweets when the groom is called up to read from the Torah; the groom's family will have the Shabbat meals at its own house; the Friday night meal will not include any guests, or only the father of the bride and grandfathers; the other family members may join the end of the meal with some refreshments. The family is expected to save NIS 10,000-13,000 ($2,670-3,480) on this clause.

In the wedding party chapter, the maximum price for the wedding dress is NIS 3,500 ($935), renting clothes for schoolgirls – NIS 200 ($55), renting clothes for high school or seminary girls – NIS 300 ($80), a chair for the bride – NIS 450 ($120), a bouquet of flowers for the bride – NIS 200 ($55), drinks – NIS 4,000 ($1,070), a photographer – NIS 2,500 ($670), and a band (including a singer and equipment) – NIS 3,300 ($885). Some NIS 19,000-23,000 ($5,085-6,155) are saved in this chapter.

Rabbi Avi Zarki of north Tel Aviv has convinced couples to have a relatively modest wedding more than once. "I've conducted weddings which cost millions of dollars, just to make others jealous," he says.

"It's unnecessary. When I see people investing money in a wedding instead of in an apartment, leading to debts, I ask the permission of the parents and the young couple and advise them to change their list of priorities."

Comments

[rabbichaplain]

Wedding restrictions never seem to work, which is why this announcement is not so unique. Besides, the big shots and the rebbeim tend not to follow the restrictions as an example to their followers.

[Yaakov]

While the principle behind this effort is good, the implementation, through "rules" is just more of the same basic error. People have stupid weddings because they are socially manipulated into it. The chatan and kallah are the ones who need to insist on a simple wedding. That will only happen when it is the "right" thing to do.

Perhaps rules like these can help start the process of rationalizing the situation, but, unless there is social pressure on young people to demand a simple wedding, and education to teach them that " being king and queen" on their wedding day is a matter of attitude and not cash, these rules will not stand. it is also critical that children understand the financial impact of expensive simchat on the parents. They almost certainly don't know that their wedding can mean lifelong debt for their parents.

[Confused]

Too many items listed. I can't seem to find the limit on the wedding itself i.e. the hall rental and the catering also where is the limit on the number of guests.

The problem still remains as far as I am concerned.

[Gefilte Fish]

One of the gifts mentioned is a Passover set of books for the groom. is that simply a hagadah or is it some ridiculous chumrah that you need a special set of non-chametz books?

[yechi ben levitas]

F k SHAS. read arutz sheva re shas and its comments on the I D Force. ps so many weddings end in divorce even amongst frummes stop this drivel about gifts, Israsel must prepare for war. Start making donations to israel in lieu of gifts, if this article concerns israeli weddings then the writer is a twit.

[taylor]

With price controls, it appears that the rebbeim are running a socialist-style command economy.

[Hal]

I have no problem with this. Big spending on weddings is as stupid as stupid can be. And people in our cult spend half their lives imitating the neighbors. It's ironic that the people at the top are largely responsible for the masses being clueless about money and budgets and here they must tell them to keep the spending down.

[who knows]

A family with 16 kids to marry and an average expeneture of over $12,000 per wedding spends about $200,000 just for weddings. Then they have to provide housing for those coules and help them become full time learners. The costs run into millions of USDs.

How do Israele wellfare families afford this? Where does the money come from?

It seems to me that with ability to pay for discretionary expenses like this they don't need financial government (non-Haredi public's) help.

[aw]

it actually does work in chassidic circles. in satmar, if you don't follow the restriction the rebbe will not participate

[AztecQueen2000]

If you're old enough to get married, you should be old enough to know how to live within your means. You should also be old enough to know that your parents do not have a money tree hidden in the yard. There is no need to outshine anyone, especially since no one will really remember that many details afterwards.

[Yaakov]

AztecQueen2000:

"Should be" and "is" are from different domains. The former is theoretical and ideological, the latter practical and pragmatic. These children "should be" many things that they are not. The parents "should be" teaching them responsibility and reality. Both these things do not pertain.

These rules might help parents as a purchase for pushing back against the demands on the children. Long term, though, both parents and children need to be educated about what is truly important so they have the internal ethical drive needed to behave properly.

This starts with the "Jewish Royalty" following the rules, setting an example. I am not sanguine that this will happen because history militates against it.

[SMR]

In 2001, the Agudas Yisroel tried this in the US.

However, their "policy" explicitly exempted rabbis and communal leaders from the restrictions (the same guys who wrote the policy). At that point, no one took the policy seriously.

Related articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/25/us/religion-journal-a-big-wedding-with-a-smaller-bill.html

http://orthonomics.blogspot.com/2008/02/study-in-wedding-takanot-differences-in.html

[Hal]

AztecQueen2000

This whole society is guilty of not teaching children about money. I'm not just talking about frum Jews. I went to public school and learned nothing about money. Rather, I learned about Thomas Jefferson year after year after year. College was worse. They want to keep you ignorant about money.

[Confused]

The format of the wedding has to change as well. Most wedding costs are driven by how many people are attending the sit-down meal. One of the most enjoyable weddings I attended was one given by my rabbi for his daughter. The format was as follows.

First they had the chuppa attended by all. This was followed by a buffet again for all together with the dancing. When that was done, all left except for the family and I assume the friends of the young couple for the sitdown meal.

Now, this was not done to save money since the rabbi was quite wealthy, but for logistical reasons, but I assume since it was a small sit-down meal I assume the costs were much lower than it would have been had he invited "the world" to the sit down.

So after putting on thinking cap (thanks Ruthie) I propose - Only family and friends of the young couple at the sit down portion of the wedding. You would be surprised how this simple formula will keep wedding costs WAY DOWN and will not offend anyone!

[A. Nuran]

It's not just these communities. Weddings in India and Pakistan often put families into debt for many years. Among dirt-poor Travelers in the UK extravagant expensive weddings are the norm. In the US the median wedding costs about $30,000 + three months' salary for a wedding ring + engagement ring + honeymoon.

[rebitzman]

Only family and friends of the young couple at the sit down portion of the wedding.

On paper this might work, but when we tried exactly that it didn't work out (we invited 50 - 450 stayed). Fortunately, our caterer was a friend, and understood the mores of the community FAR better than we did and was actually prepared.

and will not offend anyone!

Y'know..........if they are that easily offended do you REALLY need them as friends?

Now if we can just do something about opulent Bar and Bat Mitzvahs.........

[Barry]

Costs of a wedding are as nothing compared to the costs of setting up a home and raising kids.

The rabbis wish to focus on tackling expenditure by parents rather than on the inability of their children to be income producing.

Raising a generation with a work ethic too make them productive so that they can make a comfortable and respectable living is the mark of good leadership, not trying to make unproductive people try to cope with the little they have with the least humiliation.

No people on Earth have had a worse leadership for a longer time than the Ultra Orthodox. They have raised a generation to an education standard which a 14th century Romanian peasant would find unacceptable.

[Confused]

On paper this might work, but when we tried exactly that it didn't work out (we invited 50 - 450 stayed).

I cant picture that! After the buffet and dancing after the chuppa I assume the sit down would be in another room. Tables have numbers on them and people sit down at the table where they were assigned via the placards. I cannot see someone sitting at a table without picking up a placard. Maybe it helps if the format of the wedding was made clear.

In my case, my rabbi included an explanation, almost an apology, explaining the wedding format. No one crashed the sitdown!

[Hal]

Tell me what you think of this theory: many (not all) rabbis want to keep kids in yeshiva for as long as possible because that's how those rabbis make a parnassah. It's in their short term financial interest to promote this society of 'learners'. They tell you that parnasah doesn't matter but really only yours doesn't matter. In the long run it fails because everyone is broke. But these clowns don't think about long term.

[seymour]

In 2001, the Agudas Yisroel tried this in the US.

However, their "policy" explicitly exempted rabbis and communal leaders from the restrictions (the same guys who wrote the policy). At that point, no one took the policy seriously.

Posted by: SMR | January 27, 2012 at 08:14 AM

the congress does the same thing many times

it seems it is an affliction that effects people in power

[Eli]

I have a simpler rule to save: skip the wedding, pocket half of what you didn't spend and contribute it instead to a real education for your children, and donate the other half to FM in order to educate others on this wisdom.

[Confused]

On paper this might work, but when we tried exactly that it didn't work out (we invited 50 - 450 stayed).

Checked my files and as it turns out I saved the letter so here it is with minor editing.

Dear Relatives and Friends ,n,v,

At this wonderful time of abundant joy and simcha, we have a great dilemma. On one hand, having our beloved friends and relatives join with us in the great simcha of the wedding of our children, is truly very important to us; yet, we understand only too well the constraints of your time in attending multiple simchas each week, leaving little time for family or personal commitments.

And so we searched for a way that would allow us the added simcha of having you join us at this very special day in our lives, yet make as little demand as possible on your time. We will have a brief limited reception, followed by a chupah that will start on time, after which there will be a grand buffet reception for your enjoyment, together with simchas Chosson v'Kallah, which will end at half past nine in the evening. This will allow you to return home at an early hour to enjoy the extra time as you see fit.

We truly hope that you will enjoy this venue and join us at our simcha, which will be greatly enhanced by your presence. May we share in many simchas together.

I just loved the way he made it seem like he was doing you the favor - clever!

The buffet was magnificent with abundant food.

[A. Nuran]

And guys, much as I dislike Charedism and the destructive effects it has had on Judaism, the hate here really is excessive.

This is a good thing and a response to a real problem. People who cannot afford the basics are spending a ton of money they don't have on weddings. The rabbis are doing something constructive about it by limiting the costs.

[seymour]

the wedding cost are our of this world and forget about the ring and the size of the diamond

I always wondered how do they afford all that money?

when i was in the diamond business i always was amazed that the yiddin frum Jews bought this big rocks and the secular and even more so the non Jews bought much smaller rocks.

before I am attacked I am talking in general and everybody will be able to find exception to that rule

the frum preach about how this world is really nothing not important. They make fun of the materialism of the world and of course the gentiles and secular around them.

But their action speak just the opposite they might just be the most materialistic of everybody.

Parents go in massive debt to make a wedding. That really has no long tern value at all. They go into debt for a one day event

how sad.

since it seems from statistics there is a high percentage that collect section 8 and other stuff. It does seem to be a contradiction of realities

I comment the rebbies for doing this but only if they themselves follow their own ruling.

If they themselves would practice what they preach they would be no need for rulings

[A. Nuran]

Are there a lot of rules in these booklets?
Of course.

We're talking about communities with rules for everything populated by people for whom arguing legal minutiae is the chief participant sport. Of course it's going to run to more boilerplate than a corporate merger. If it's going to serve its purpose it has to do that.

[Confused]

the wedding cost are our of this world and forget about the ring and the size of the diamond

I always wondered how do they afford all that money?

This is a problem afflicting many people in so many different ways it is called

Keeping up with the Jones

[Hal]

Ok I'm going to do this again. You knew it was coming.

This photo of our holy ancestors at a wedding in Lita says it all.

http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/dusetos/dus092.html

[Bas Melech]

At least the rabbis speak against the high costs. It is nothing new. Doubtful it will work.

[Bas Melech]

"Israel must prepare for war."

Posted by: yechi ben levitas | January 27, 2012 at 06:49 AM

The ultra orthodox think that moshiach will come before a war.

[jj]

215 for an engagement party yet they allow 135 bux for shabat flowers? Am I reading right/? And notice how the cost of shadchanim went down from the usual 1000 per side to only 990?. These numbers just don't make any cents, literaly.

[who knows]

I just loved the way he made it seem like he was doing you the favor - clever!

The buffet was magnificent with abundant food.

Posted by: Confused | January 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Clever? It is so transparent. I'd much prefer the straight talk to this "clever" offensive rabbi talk.

[rebitzman]

@A. Nuran

Well said

[Malka Gittel]

I don't care how cheaply anything is to be discounted, how are haredim paying any of these bills when they're not working and living off the government? They shouldn't be allowed to throw any money around when they're not making any in the first place.

[Gefilte Fish]

Weddings are a big deal for the frumma because it's just about the only form of entertainment allowed.

Also, for those who asked, most of the families can't afford the weddings. That's why they schnorr so much. Most of the frumma Israeli schnorrers in the US are those who are collecting for their 5th, 6th, etc. daughter.

[Jewel of a Jew]

THIS is what they call cutting wedding costs? I'm as secular as you can get, and I didn't spend nearly as much on my wedding. This is extremely superficial, materialistic, and an embarrassment to our religion.

No one knows what God truly wants of us, but specific rules of the MANY possessions you must buy when getting married is far from what I would *like to think God is seeking from His children.

[mimi]

I spent 150 dollars on getting married- including the rings- and put the rest in the bank. The marriage is more important than the wedding. There are benefits to autism after all, one of them is not giving an owl's hoot what my community thinks.

[Yochanan Lavie]

Mimi: You go, girl!

[Confused]

. I'd much prefer the straight talk to this "clever" offensive rabbi talk.

Posted by: who knows | January 27, 2012 at 01:10 PM

Ok hot shot, just how would YOU have worded this card that came with the invitation!

[Yoel Mechanic]

Weddings are a big deal for the frumma because it's just about the only form of entertainment allowed.

Posted by: Gefilte Fish | January 27, 2012 at 03:36 PM
-------------------------------------

Weddings are also very kedusha. Realize that excellent music makes an excellent wedding and all the other things minor issues. Food can be vastly simplified and decorations are rather superfluous. There are a lot of musicians around, studio musicians, recent graduates from top music schools who will do just about anything for quite reasonable fees. Just give them the sheet music in advance, perhaps a recording, or some suggestions on how to dress and present themselves at a chassideshe wedding and you will see the wonderful results. Is there an issue with professional musicians who are frei yidden? goyim? Think of the outreach possibilities. You can get shockingly excellent performances from a few violinists, classical guitarists, maybe a piccolo trumpet for the bedeken. Many creative possibilities. And if studio professionals from NYC seem pricey, fly someone in from Miami, Cleveland or LA. You will see how competitive these guys are! People will notice special music, and each wedding can be different.