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January 23, 2012

Crown Heights Modesty Sign

Crown Heights Sign 1-22-2011 Long Skirt closeupA modest modesty sign from Crown Heights, Brooklyn telling women that a long skirt brings long life. The sign also declares that the late rebbe of Chabad, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, is the messiah.

Crown Heights Sign 1-22-2011 Long Skirt closeup


Crown Heights Sign 1-22-2011 Long Skirt

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I remember something about the Torah saying honoring your parents brings a long life. I don't remember the Torah mentioning anything about a long skirt.

Also, funny how the sign doesn't say exercise + healthy diet = long life.

Try as I may, I simply cannot see anything wrong with this sign.

That opinion comes from a person who is not known for being a supporter of frum foileshtik in any shape or form.

The flyer is not offensive to anyone, it is not inciteful, it is not pornographic.

So what was the point of posting it here?

Locked up in a room. Longer life?

Long life, but what for?

I don't remember the Torah mentioning anything about a long skirt.

Posted by: centrist | January 23, 2012 at 05:00 AM

Since they don't actually bother to learn or understand Toy-rey (despite claiming long hours doing so when in reality they are smoking, drinking vodkah and farting in kollel) they make it up as they go.

Darth Zeidah raises an interesting point.

If we see a commercial advertisement saying, in effect "Wear/use this [clothing, perfume, nail polish, shampoo] and you will be beautiful and sexually desirable" we wouldn't think twice about it. We would say "I understand this, someone wants to sell something and this is how they try to induce a woman to purchase it."

But here, pecuniary interest is absent and there is no appeal to personal vanity. Rather, the motivation is purely religious/spiritual. And that is what strikes us as sufficiently interesting to merit posting.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this poster; no stigmatization of women who wear short skirts. But it strikes us as noteworthy because while we are used to appeals to our wallets and our libidos, we are not accustomed to appeals to our religiosity.

Also, funny how the sign doesn't say exercise + healthy diet = long life.
Posted by: centrist | January 23, 2012 at 05:01 AM

Great idea! Some of us should go around and change 'skirt' to 'exercise + healthy diet' on all the existing signs!

"שו"ך?"

In both the example of an advertisement and that of this sign, something is revealed about the value system and worldview of the people involved. Many people object to the messages of a commercialism that tells people they need to be ultra thin, or buff, or have bright white teeth in order to be accepted and loved, or that the most important thing is to have lots of money and show it, or that sparkling dishes are the sign of a good wife, or that drinking milk will make you sexy or that cigarettes will make you cool. Many of us object to the message of THIS sign and how it affects some people's minds and hearts.

Since they don't actually bother to learn or understand Toy-rey (despite claiming long hours doing so when in reality they are smoking, drinking vodkah and farting in kollel) they make it up as they go.

Posted by: David | January 23, 2012 at 05:27 AM

and even the one who do learn make it up in most cases

@Darth

Agreed.

Unless there is an ordinance against posting such bills, this is free speech.

Not "speech" that I agree with, mind you (on either point - less on the tater than the former), but absolutely within his right to express.

Again - disclaimer being that posting such bills is legal (and I see no others).

But it strikes us as noteworthy because while we are used to appeals to our wallets and our libidos, we are not accustomed to appeals to our religiosity.

Posted by: MarkfromShortHills | January 23, 2012 at 05:44 AM

It doesn't appeal to religiosity. If so, it would say something like, "Pious women wear long skirts". It appeals to the desire to live. Since the implication is that you will die younger if you don't wear a long skirt, perhaps it could even be considered a fear-based message.

Man Shmarya these's stickers have been up for months is it like your having a boring day or something????

Even during the time in my life when I supported the idea that all women should wear long skirts, and would not have objected to campaigns to encourage that, I would have found this sign offensive on a number of grounds.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this poster; no stigmatization of women who wear short skirts.

Posted by: MarkfromShortHills | January 23, 2012 at 05:44 AM

The stigmatization is implied.

the difference is....if i choose to use a certain shampoo or whatever else is being advertised...i have a choice....and it's mine and all good. i will not be judged.

if i don't wear a long skirt, i am not a good enough jew or g-d forbid, get an eyin rah not to live a long life???

in all due respect, HUGE difference.

Even during the time in my life when I supported the idea that all women should wear long skirts, and would not have objected to campaigns to encourage that, I would have found this sign offensive on a number of grounds.

Namely?

Why is it never anything about men's modesty? That's the question. Why is it never about long beards or peyos, or larger hats, or looser pants, or keeping the shirt buttoned all the way up the neck?

Clever. Can you think of two sentences that start with 'long'? Here's my suggestion.

Long tongue.

Long lick.

Or perhaps a change-up:

Long walk.

Short bridge.

Maybe it just seems longer.....

Really, long skirt = trip and fall down more. It's no fun getting caught in your skirt - something those men don't know.

I suppose we can console ourselves that at least it didn't tell us to walk on the other side from the men.

This sort of sign should be up all over the city. They shold have them especially for their parades when the dark ones act like wild animals shokeling right in front of their own children.

As long as they don't force people or spit on people it is ok. This is simply a reminder for those to whom the issue of tznius matters.

anyone for whom the issue of tznius matters, doesn't need a sign.
they live it...hopefully, with joy.

anyone for whom the issue of tznius matters, doesn't need a sign.
they live it...hopefully, with joy.

Posted by: ruthie | January 23, 2012 at 08:19 AM

Well it certainly is not for the African Americans, the other inhabitants of Crown Heights.

Maybe some of the frum have been a little lax in its adherence and need the extra reminder.

i was referring only to the orthodox women.
i'm sorry this was not clear to you.
no one needs a reminder! they live it, hopefully with joy

Considering that Haredi choices for entertainment and physical exercise activities are limited to rioting and stone throwing, this message sounds scary.

"Long skirt long life" sounds more like "Dare to wear short skirt and we'll kill you"

"Long skirt long life" sounds more like "Dare to wear short skirt and we'll kill you"

Posted by: who knows | January 23, 2012 at 09:01 AM

Scarey, you really need to seek some professional help. Talk about being paranoid!

B"H

To dovid- you are wrong. There are signs about men not trimming beards etc

To shoshi and ruthie etc- if you want to wear short skirts thank G-d you liv in usa where legal to do so.

But... keep in mind some men are looking at you as object.

Really, simple jew? Where are these signs? I have never seen them. And when was the last time a man was spat upon or beaten or stoned b/c of his beard?

Long skirts will ensure a long life? Great news, now that I have finally found the key to longevity my family will have to put up with my cross dressing.

small brain short life, for the people who put such signs up

Dovid-Youre the champion among the shoites

I really wonder when this transformation of religious Jews happened. In the late 60’s and early 70’s when I was still orthodox, live and let live was the mantra, what happened, it seems to me that the Bubonic (far rightwing) Plague, the same pandemic, which effected the overall population in US, devastated the orthodox community. We as none observant Jews, should at a minimum try to help the vulnerable who want to become BT, to remind them why their grandparents left religion. Finally, religion is a physical threat to human development and it should be exposed for its subrogation of the masses.

Try as I may, I simply cannot see anything wrong with this sign.
That opinion comes from a person who is not known for being a supporter of frum foileshtik in any shape or form.
The flyer is not offensive to anyone, it is not inciteful, it is not pornographic.
So what was the point of posting it here?
Posted by: Darth_Zeidah | January 23, 2012 at 05:04 AM

It is not our problem that your brain fails to comprehend, that in this country we have laws that protects everybody from being discriminated against based on, religion, color, or sexual orientation. Rule of law trumps your religious preference. In my view beside it is illegal, it is also immoral to discriminate against none religious Jew, or gentile.

I wish the long arm of the law would raid this neighborhood for welfare fraud and remove the children. These signs are threatening, scary and abusive to children. Can't wait to see what the yuppie signs say.

I have a great solution. Take ALL the yellow avodoh zarah flags ,cut them up and make LONG skirts. That would be a kidush hashem.

What about pants?

help

Why is it never anything about men's modesty? That's the question. Why is it never about long beards or peyos, or larger hats, or looser pants, or keeping the shirt buttoned all the way up the neck?

Posted by: Dovid | January 23, 2012 at 07:04 AM

men make the rules

and what about those sexy peyos would you like them to do

seymour-Thats the best question and statement i have heard in a long time you answer it also,men love to rule woman especially frummies and muslim fanatics this is how they get their kiks, they feel they are somebody only if they can dominate others like the weaker sex,theese hassidim are even more dominating of woman,they never ever talk about mens lange payes that is hanging like the schmock, the payes is a phallic symbol of the males genitals what can be more repugnant then that and yes the lange shtinkene beards the least they can do is keep them trims like a civilized being not like a beast from the forests, alot of hassidim are so deshelved they only need horns to really look like a beasts

The sign should read False messia brings false hope

While the sign is credited to a Meshichist women's group, its admonition is not specifically directed to women! In keeping with Menachem Mendel Christ, should we men also be wearing long skirts in emulation of the Cohen Gadol?

Men should wear long kilts, in the style of the MacMenachem clan.

It is time for the men to wear t'fillin on their heads and arms 24/7.

Otherwise, we know for a fact that they are not frume yidn.

Like R. Scheinberg who wears talesim all day long.

Plus, if they wear their t'fillin they can get free admission into gay leather bars.

So, picture these frumer than thou-niks, decked out in their filthy black hats, their dandruff covered black coats/kapotes/ garbage bags, their matching black orthopedic shoes, their t'fillin shel rosh swaying in the wind and shel yad arousing purient interest in some of their less inhibited neighbors, their disheveled beards pointing in all the directions of the compass, and, of course, their Habad siddurim, with the picture of moshiakh tsidkeynu aka Rabeynu Farfel.

Not a pretty site.

Someone should put up a sign.

While the sign is credited to a Meshichist women's group, its admonition is not specifically directed to women

I forgot about the Scottish Jews.

B"H

David

Sorry - I don't carry around photos but there for sure have been signs posted on kingston ave on EVERY block last year telling men how impt to keep an untrimmed beard, etc.

Litvish-hahaha youre hilarious

Litvish-hahaha youre hilarious

Posted by: jancsipista
=====

Köszönöm!!!!

Azt is nagyszerű!

Litvish-I cant beleive it you spelled it right the koszonom and the rest, hova valasi vagy? en erdelyi vagyok

They are more concerned with Messiah than Hashem!

alot of the Chabadish personaa is childlike on the outside but getting down and dirty don't ever try to cross them.

this is a sad development for Chabad.

Actually, if you read it closely, it says that Shmarya is the Messiah.

But as for the rest of the sign, what its posters fail to grasp is that women who dress inappropriately by (what should be) this community's official standards have a problem, if it can even be called that, that runs far deeper than what they're wearing. The clothing is just a symptom of an underlying cause: unhappiness.

Address their real issues, and the symptoms will go away. It's essentially no different than a mainstream non-Jewish kid in say, Dallas, who suddenly gets into drumming because it relieves the stress of school or parents getting divorced or not getting a girlfriend or whatever it is that's really going on in his life.

Nem túlságosan romantikus.

Én született New Yorkban.

I can't believe that everybody, so far, has missed the patent absurdity of the first photo. Look again!

The sign appears in the foreground, on a light pole. In the background is a snowy, cold and slushy winter landscape. Who would wear anything but long skirts or otherwise heavy and concealing clothing in such weather?!

I think the short skirt problem in January, at least in Brooklyn, exists primarily in the overly active imaginations of certain folks who would probably be better off reciting their תקון כללי and immersing in the nearest מקוה –– ensuring, of course, to keep their eyes and dirty minds off any young yeshiva boys they might encounter there.


Most women in NYC wear pants in the winter. It's too cold to wear skirts, even long ones.

What's most telling about the primitive Haredi mind is that they expect us to accept the same flimsy excuses they did. Jewish minds are much more complex than our Haredi counterparts. We tend to employ critical thinking instead of accepting Muslim reasons for the repression of women.

Litvish-Amazing hard to beleive hogy it szuletel youre hungarian is very sofisticated for you to be born here nem hiszem el neked:))

Litvish-Just remembered maybee youre using google translation:))) i think so

Mendy Hecht

I think your comments often add a sober opposing perspective on this site. However, what is it in a shliach's training that qualifies him as a psychologist? Sometimes a short skirt is just a short skirt.

NEWSFLASH...

M.M.Schneerson has just been seen reappearing on top of the Temple Mount with Jesus of Nazareth in tow, in an "Upsized/Two for One/Tag Team/Super Duper Double Feature Messianic Second Coming Deal."

Pay per view, live is $49.95 per hour. Sign up fee $200.

CALL :

1-800-2NDCOMING

or Email...

makeforyourselvesanotherteacher@hotmail.com

SPECIAL OFFER !

If you are wearing a long skirt at the time of signing up you get a 10% discount. Crossdressers need not apply.

Igen, a Google Translation nagyon jó.

Remélem tetszik a magyar.

Én is, mint a magyar nyelv.

Van egy magyar beteg.

Rabbi Krauss summed it up perfectly:

http://www.mesora.org/rabbikrauss.html

Is this a segula or a death threat?

It is not our problem that your brain fails to comprehend, that in this country we have laws that protects everybody from being discriminated against based on, religion, color, or sexual orientation. Rule of law trumps your religious preference. In my view beside it is illegal, it is also immoral to discriminate against none religious Jew, or gentile.

Where and how did you detect that I condoned discrimination?

If I ran into that sign in my own neighborhood I would eagerly put up my own sign underneath it:

Short Skirt
Long and Happy Life

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