City To Shutter Illegally Built Yeshiva

New Hempstead will shut down the Ohr Torah yeshiva because the yeshiva's building was built illegally without any permits or approvals by Rabbi Mates Cantor about 10 tears ago. Cantor, and Australian, sold the property to Ohr Torah. Firefighters strenuously objected to the city's refusal to crack down on what they consider to be a major public safety hazard, and demanded the school be closed immediately and remain closed until a full and detailed inspection of the property is done. The city does not have copies of or access to the blueprints or plans for the building. The building does not have a certificate of occupancy.

New Hempstead's mayor wanted to "compromise" and allow Ohr Torah to remain open during the inspection process.

Enraged firefighters demanded it be closed immediately:

Gordon Wren Jr., a Hillcrest firefighter and former Ramapo building inspector who is the coordinator of the Rockland Office of Fire and Emergency Services, said localities shouldn’t send the message that people can illegally open a school and then make it legal if they get caught.

“You can’t just make a house into a school without licensed people reviewing what was done,” Wren said.

“How can the village tell if the work has been done properly inside the walls, if there are no building permits, no Planning Board approvals or inspections?” he said.

The Journal News reports that the firefighters prevailed.

New Hempstead and Wesley Hills incorporated as villages in 1983 to see that fire and building codes were actually being enforced – something they thought Ramapo was not adequately doing. Residents also wanted to preserve the single family home nature of their areas rather than have them converted to multiple family dwellings – which would have meant an influx of haredim.

The school was once a single-family home that has been expanded several times. The 5,282-square-foot building once had four bedrooms and 4½ baths. It is located in a single-family zone.

According to the Journal News,

Cantor sold the property to Ohr Torah for $995,000 in March 2011, according to adeed of sale filed with the Rockland County Clerk’s Office. The assessed value is $223,700 and the village property tax is $1,073, according figures from the Village Clerk’s Office.

 

Comments

[seymour]

I wonder how many MO reform or Conservatives yeshivas. have been caught doing this?

or, is this a a practice that only ails the ultra Orthodox and why?

[Mike]

I live RIGHT THERE. Literally like less than two blocks away.

Stories like this really put things into perspective for me. All these stories about yeshivos and rabbis doing illegal things seemed so far away from me, what with all the stories going on in Israel, but reality is, plenty of corruption is going on right in my very neighborhood.

And yes as someone who actually knows about this building Cantor left many, many years ago. Ive actually been INSIDE it recently, and it is absolutely NOT fit for a yeshiva at all.

[anuran]

As it should be. Ignore the law and suffer the consequences.

[Mike]

Seymour- I havent heard many stories of MO, conservative, or reform schools yeshivos doing this in recent memory. However, I can tell you that this is a very common occurrence amongst ultra-orthodox yeshivos. I am aware of another one in monsey that was forced to move out because there were no fire exits, and it happened about a year ago.

I just don't understand what is so hard about constructing a building that adheres to government policy. Nevermind that, but it's a safety hazard! For all these people who are so hell-bent on cramming their children into stuffy, hazardous spaces to learn, isn't there something in the Shulchan Aruch about being STRICTER about safety than with sin?

You'd think they'd build their yeshivos in a fortress or something.

[seymour]

Posted by: Mike | January 30, 2012 at 09:38 AM

I know that

my real question is why?

what is it with the ultra Orthodox that they just flaunt zoning laws and even willing to put their own in danger?

do they really think it is a yeshiva and god will protect them, or that goyim made the rules therefore they are stupid.

the common excuse that flaunting the law is a throwback from the old days however that is nonsense since many MO reform and conservatives are descendants of people from the old days too

[devorah]

Seymore, building contruction code in Rockland is very strict and the ultra Orthodox can save mucho gelt by hiring contractors to circumvent the laws by using cheaper or out dated wiring, plumbing, and other materials. Most of them don't even bother to hire an architect or structural engineer to design the buildings. They just take an empty house and add additions illegally and call it a yeshiva. None of them have smoke or carbon monoxide detectors. Worst part is the parents just don't give a s*** where their little darlings are learning Toirah.

[FirstGenerationBavarianAmerican]

I suspect a lack of maningful education on the part of the builders of these yeshivas. They never read about building catastrophes, such as boilers exploding. The fire fighters must have seen some severe safety hazards during that boiler room fire to be that adamant.

[Mike]

Seymour- You're asking a very good question. My guess is that has less to do with the law and more with convenience. The builing in question was intended as a synagouge, at least from what I recall, and the rabbis didn't want to actually have to spend money or deal with the government for permits, etc. Their mentality is probably that since it's for a YESHIVA, it's ok to bypass like a ton of laws, including ones that were designed for the safety of children in attendance.

[Waiting4Moshiach]

It was the same way in Germany and no one saw it until it was too late. First they close down the Yeshivas. Then they ban shechita, then it becomes illegal to have a bris. We know where this ends up. We need to do a better job of lobbying for our rights and supporting the right goyim. Yes, see who can help us, but also keep a bag packed and the name of a friend or relative in Montreal or China.

[flat earth]

Nothing like a combination of un-inspected wiring, no smoke detection and inadequate egress. The landscaping could use a little help too.

[seymour]

Posted by: Mike | January 30, 2012 at 10:01 AM

another issue is money

in the ultra Orthodox community every tom dick and harry decides to open a yeshiva or shul.

not so in other Jewish communities that open shuls yeshivas where there is a need not because someone decides hey i want to run a yeshiva or shul

I guess ghetto mentally still prevails

[Mike]

It just blows my mind that it would happen this close to my neighborhood. Granted, this particular area is very religous, but I didn't think anything like this would happen. But for these ultra-orthodox, the world is their canvas i guess.

[seymour]

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | January 30, 2012 at 10:18 AM

sadly the only reason his or her comments are funny

its that there is some truth (people really think that way)to what he says

[KJ]

None of them have smoke or carbon monoxide detectors

What a shame, they can be picked up for a song and installed in minutes.

[seymour]

None of them have smoke or carbon monoxide detectors. Worst part is the parents just don't give a s*** where their little darlings are learning Toirah.

Posted by: devorah | January 30, 2012 at 09:59 AM

no smoke detectors, I hope not

instead of making bans how about does

like it is a mizvha to install a smoke and carbon detectors.

then they would comply

[jancsipista]

Mike &Seymour-The love of money is the root of all evil,no difference with our holy rabbis,whatever the goyim have they must also have it the best of everything by hook or by crook.

[seymour]

None of them have smoke or carbon monoxide detectors

What a shame, they can be picked up for a song and installed in minutes.

Posted by: KJ | January 30, 2012 at 10:52 AM

the same can be said about bike helmets for kids

i am shocked how few kids from the ones who ride a bike in willie wear bike helmets.

In Boro park I am happy to report most do wear helmets.

are the the parents stupid, do not care, or uneducated. Or is it that old excuse it is goyish

it is not money since I see they spend a fortune of the baby carriages

[jancsipista]

Waiting4Moshiach-Like youre usual self a paranoid schizophrenic,go get help w4m.

[KJ]

Worst part is the parents just don't give a s*** where their little darlings are learning Toirah.

I think it is more like they don't think about it.

When I go into a building be it a shul, restaurant, store etc I must admit that I do not first check if it has a CFO and has a clean bill of health from the department of buildings.

People play with the stats which clearly shows that most structures are safe. I many times cross not at the green and will at times cross in the middle of the block. When I accept a ride from someone I don't normally check on the driver's windshield if the car's inspection date has expired.

This is not to say buildings should not be built to code. However most people are unaware as to every building's compliance.

I don't know if the photo shown is a file photo of a random house, but from where I look, it sure looks like a million dollar home and does not look like a shack ready to burst into flames. Again, it should be inspected and upgraded to code, but I would not have suspected it to be a poorly built structure.

[flat earth]

None of them have smoke or carbon monoxide detectors
What a shame, they can be picked up for a song and installed in minutes.
Posted by: KJ

Actually, they need a complete fire alarm system that is monitored by a legal central station, system CO detectors,emergency lighting, kitchen suppression system and legal egress doors with panic hardware that open out - not in to say the least.

[seymour]

justr create a heschgucha (make it exactly as the zoning laws) for building and everybody will be on board

many laws we have like the mikvha some say (scholars) where really just a way to get people to bath at a time when it was not that common.

At a time when it was done in fresh clean natural water source lake river and so on

[AztecQueen2000]

As a contractor's wife, I am appalled. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. A number of my husband's clients try to get him to work without proper permits because they see it as a waste of money. Then, they scream "anti-Semitic b******* in the government." when they get caught and their jobs are shut down.
How many Jews died in the Triangle fire again?

[Simple Jew]

B"H

The US has WAY too many laws.

The govt in general should stop telling us what to do with our own personal safety.

BUT -- I would encourage all frum jews to follow as many laws as they can (no one can follow all laws virtually impossible in a country that passed 40,000 yes 40,000 new laws for 2012)--- it is not a kiddush Hashem if we have trouble with the inspectors, etc. and waste of money with fines, etc.

A LOT of these holier than thou firepeople and municipal workers have 2nd baths and finished basements in their homes and don't have inspections-- many are perfectly built to code and safe but they dont want to pay extra taxes.

ALSO -- to all of your concerned citizens like devorah -- do the world a favor and offer to sponsor and personally install smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors in the yeshivas... that is assuming you really care about the children and are not just trying to attack fellow yidden.

[seymour]

simple jew

"A LOT of these holier than thou firepeople and municipal workers have 2nd baths and finished basements in their homes and don't have inspections-- many are perfectly built to code and safe but they dont want to pay extra taxes."

can you show us some stats to back up your point?

Do you have some information to back that up?

why should devorah pay for detectors let the parents of the children pay or teh yeshiva

that argument is BS

maybe I and others should check very car to make sure they are wearing seat belts?

pointing out that others do wrong is not an excuse.

Funny people like you would never say that about eating treif or not keeping shabbos

[Junarchist]

translation - no permits or building codes means that the leeches in government didn't get their payoffs, which means less overtime and other wonderful perks.

[anuran]

KJ, it means that in a building built by responsible people in the real world you can pretty much assume the legally required work has been done. In Charedistan that's not the case.

[Shmarya]

"A LOT of these holier than thou firepeople and municipal workers have 2nd baths and finished basements in their homes and don't have inspections-- many are perfectly built to code and safe but they dont want to pay extra taxes."

ALSO -- to all of your concerned citizens like devorah -- do the world a favor and offer to sponsor and personally install smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors in the yeshivas... that is assuming you really care about the children and are not just trying to attack fellow yidden.

Posted by: Simple Jew | January 30, 2012 at 11:31 AM

Idiot.

Those "holier than thou firepeople" risk their lives to fight fires and rescue people in those dangerous, improperly built homes.

Past that, the issue is not donating smoke alarms.

The issue is haredim willing to open illegal buildings without smoke alarms and put their own children in them.

[devorah]

"do the world a favor and offer to sponsor and personally install smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors in the yeshivas... that is assuming you really care about the children and are not just trying to attack fellow yidden."

Sorry, not my responsibility. My kids attended public school where I knew all codes were documented annually. Besides, this Yeshiva has dozens of multi-millionaire (still on section 8)parents, so let them rewire their school instead of going to S. America for weddings every other month.

[Rebitzman]

@seymour
 
I wonder how many MO reform or Conservatives yeshivas. have been caught doing this?
 
In the interest of full disclosure it probably needs to be pointed out that (Consrvative jews) we don't build a lot of these to begin with, and in most instances where they ARE established, it is in exisiting buildings with the proper zoning permits and designations.
 
@Simple Jew
 
I would encourage all frum jews to follow as many laws as they can
 
You know, if you'd stopped righ there................

[Yaakov]

Isn't this bad enough?! Now they want the city to supply shutters?! When does this end?!

[WoolSilkCotton]

++How many Jews died in the Triangle fire again?

Posted by: AztecQueen2000 | January 30, 2012 at 11:27 AM ++

When the anniversary of the Triangle Fire occurred, and the story appeared in VIN, the frumma mocked the Jewish victims and said they deserved it because they were working on Shabbos when the fire occurred.

That is the frumma mentality.

[seymour]

@seymour

I wonder how many MO reform or Conservatives yeshivas. have been caught doing this?

In the interest of full disclosure it probably needs to be pointed out that (Consrvative jews) we don't build a lot of these to begin with, and in most instances where they ARE established, it is in exisiting buildings with the proper zoning permits and designations.

Posted by: Rebitzman | January 30, 2012 at 12:25 PM

that is the point

they do not build, not every tom dick and harry think they should run a consecutive yeshiva

there is no need for so many ultra Orthodox yeshivas.
every joker wants to run one

[BiF]

Where on 306 is this yeshiva located?

[Bench Kvetcher]

This is the actual picture. The building was full of violations while being built as there were many plan deviations which never had been approved. There was a lot of stuff done for future use disguised as storage space that was roughed in for future illegal finishing after a C is O was issued hence uninspected wiring and plumbing etc.

[Rebitzman]

Residents also wanted to preserve the single family home nature of their areas rather than have them converted to multiple family dwellings – which would have meant an influx of haredim.
 
First and foremost - you have to obey the law, and ultimately there is no excuse for building without proper permits or establishing a school without regard to zoning rules.........
 
......but did `not anyone else find the above statement just a tad troubling?
 
If preventing an influx of haredim is the reason for the zoning ordinances, then the city is in violation of about a dozen civil rights laws.

[AztecQueen2000]

WSC--
What's interesting to note is that every single one of the Triangle fire victims would have lived if modern fire codes were in use on that space (adequate fire exits, sprinklers, and no locked doors) as well as not building a factory three stories above the tallest fire ladder. (I read a book about the Triangle.) BTW--all of the technology to make it fireproof existed in 1911.

[Eli]

Interesting discussion here. And yet there shouldn't even be any discussion. How can anyone flaunt safety where children congregate?
Sure, I'd replace all the yeshivas with obligatory attendance until age 18 at good, secular schools with strong science programs.
But that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
So if the little ones are going to be denied a decent education, at least let it be denied within the walls of a safe, secure building.
The voices in favor of letting the yeshiva stand just show how little value they place on the lives and future of these children.
That's just sick.

[Yaakov]

With no intention to be embarrassingly critical, I feel compelled to point out a mistake made twice in this thread. The word you want is "flout", not "flaunt". These are two very different words.

To quote from the Oxford English Dictionary of the American Language:

Flaunt and flout may sound similar but they have different meanings. Flaunt means ‘display ostentatiously,’ as in tourists who liked to flaunt their wealth, while flout means ‘openly disregard (a rule or convention),’ as in new recruits growing their hair and flouting convention. It is a common error, recorded since around the 1940s, to use flaunt when flout is intended, as in the young woman had been flaunting the rules and regulations.

It is an error of longstanding and usually it doesn't matter, but, we are in danger of losing a word from the English language and while it may be quixotic, I am defending it.

[Yaakov]

On a topical and serious note…

One thing that is missing from many fire codes in residential construction is a requirement for sprinkler systems. The simple fact is that houses with sprinklers do not burn down. Anyone who builds a new house without a sprinkler system is either ignorant or negligent. The former is more common.

If you build a house, or you renovate, get a sprinkler system. For a few thousand dollars you can ensure that your house will not burn down and your family will be safe. Any dormitory or school building with no sprinkler system should be condemned unless one is installed.

It goes without saying (he said) that a full fire alarm system with central station monitoring is also required.

[Yoel Mechanic]

My guess is the issue is driven by the desire to save money, and a willingness to
not think about safety. Let's concentrate on
the money issue and leave cultural attitudes
about safety regulation aside. If there was more "teach your son a trade" a lot of the financial issues driving this would dissipate. The discipline of work would
keep thoughts of sin at bay, and then
positive cultural change could take place.

Vocational training is the key, and if
working in construction, or manufacturing
or business makes it harder to study Torah
or harder to be totally frummed out, then
the Rabbinical leaders have their jobs
cut out for them. That is the reality.

[anuran]

Yaakov, we're slowly renovating our 1908 house. Part of that renovation is putting in a sprinkler system. It isn't difficult. It's not that expensive. A good chunk of the cost is defrayed in reduced insurance premiums.

[BiF]

ISn't it funny that when you google the address it comes up as Beis Trany of Monsey - this is what happens when you go all liberal and give everyone a voice - now the Trany's got their own shul too!

[Malka Gittel]

This is preposterous. Ultras can negotiate zoning and permits as easily as anyone else, they just won't. I actually know a Chabad rabbi in the process of building a center who is now on a first name basis with the permits office staff. He keeps copies of blueprints and permits where anyone can see them. So it is NOT impossible to follow the same rules that everyone else follows.

The problem is all the people who just don't want to follow the rules and refuse to follow any laws except a demented interpretation of Halacha. It's not too hard to follow, it just requires RESPECT for where you live and work.

[David]

Authentic Judaism is a religion that values life and yet these cultists are among the least safety-conscious people I know of. They consistently flout safety rules and regulations and plain common sense and looking wider, they disregard all other laws and regulations that they think they can get away with.

And just look at the way they drive (or park for that matter) and the sh*tboxes most of them drive. (And it is not a lack of money that causes their cars to look the way they do with dents and scratches - it is they way they drive. BTW - when they run into someone else's parked car, how often do you think they leave a note so they can pay for the damage their careless driving caused?)

Look at the way the frumma raise their children, often it is the older children looking after the younger children, or they allow kids to play unsupervised or they fail to vaccinate their children unless instructed by the Rebbe.

And the theme of non-compliant fire and escape systems, non-compliant wiring or gas connections and unauthorised/unapproved building additions is all too common. Do they really think that "the goyim" are that stupid and are not sooner or later going to get serious about the frumma disregard of the law? The defence of accusing people of being antisemetic can only last so long and I think it is well past it's "use by" date.

They are simply a disgrace!

[Eli]

Yaakov, thank you for displaying ostentatiously (flaunting) my incorrect word choice. Criticism embarrassingly accepted.
Now, I hope you'll come to my defense when I'm accused of anti-semitism for urging respect for safety codes where there are children....

[Yaakov]

Eli:

First, I hope you were joking concerning being embarrassed. I surely did not mean to do so, and if I did, I am the one who is embarrassed. It is a very longstanding error in vernacular English and an uncommon word. If you hadn't read it (and you probably didn't, rather learned it verbally) than you would be reporting exactly what you learned. If I embarrassed you, please forgive me, I was trying to correct in a jocular vein and intended to educate rather than chastise.

I think I did support your point, following my defense of diversity in the English language. I do agree that safety is something that ought to be high on the list for frummeh Yidden. Why it is not is a mystery.

People will not eat fish and meat together because it is a secunah, but they will happily stick 100 kids in an overgrown house without basic safety measures. This is a serious problem.

Not concerning oneself with gashmiut is supposed to be a sign of holiness. Personally, I think it is a sign of disregard of creation. We are creatures who straddle gashmiut and ruchniut and ignoring half of our existence is, in my view, an aveirah.

So yes, I support you and cannot imagine any basis at all for calling you an antisemite based on anything I have seen you write.

[Yaakov]

anuran:

Yes, I neglected to mention the insurance discout. Great to hear you are doing it. It's really the only sensible course.

Eli:

Now I will correct myself! At least twice I have neglected to hyphenate long-standing. I even know better but I did it anyway. Shame on me.

[Eli]

Yaakov, I admire your posts and obvious decency and no offense taken (and embarrassment only to myself).
On anti-semitism, that was more a statement about the tendency from certain parts of the community (not you!) to respond to any criticism or disagreement through ad hominem attack and ducking the real issues.

[seymour]

It's not too hard to follow, it just requires RESPECT for where you live and work.

Posted by: Malka Gittel | January 30, 2012 at 08:34 PM

that is the point they do not have respect for others. remember they are only goyim and only goyim need to listen to those stupid laws

we have hashem protecting us.
if it meant to happen , it will happen no matter how many safety things you install

[WoolSilkCotton]

Yaakov, thanks for the information about flaunt vs. flout. I am always on the lookout for ways to sharpen my vocabulary and writing skills, and I appreciate your contribution!

[Herb]

In response to Waiting4Moshiach, To compare what happened in Germany to what's going on in Rockland shows how much of a moron you are. It's all about the Law. If the Law was followed there woulden't be a problem.

[A E ANDERSON]

More petty officals annoying the public to justify their pathetic existence. Ten or 15 guys using a large family house as a study hall hardly constitutes a hazard to anybody (except the livelihoods of the clearly bored and sedentary NJ town officials).

No wonder NJ has one of the highest state income taxes in the US... to support this official class of laydigayers and bums.

[Shmarya]

More petty officals annoying the public to justify their pathetic existence. Ten or 15 guys using a large family house as a study hall hardly constitutes a hazard to anybody (except the livelihoods of the clearly bored and sedentary NJ town officials).…

Posted by: A E ANDERSON | Eden Terrace, Auckland, New Zealand | February 11, 2012 at 03:58 PM

Process, asshole.

1. It's a KIDS school.

2. There are FAR MORE than 15 students.

3. The officials you mock are firemen who have to run into burning building to save people. They've had much trouble doing this in frum areas because of all the illegally built additions and illegally added interior walls. They risk their lives, and all they ask is that fire and building codes be followed. Instead, they get shit from assholes like you. Moron.