« The Lies Of Caroline Glick | Main | Rebbe Alive And Leading Chabad, Chabadniks Claim »

January 09, 2012

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

MarkfromShortHills

While such provisions do indeed limit freedom of expression, Germany and Austria (and perhaps other countries) have such laws and these prohibitions have apparently not stifled dissent.

balansen

Would not a national dialogue on the issue be more constructive than legislation that violates free expression? The instinct to legislate away rights, no matter how well-intentioned, is disturbing.

Garnel Ironheart

And what happens when the primitives hold their next Holocaust-theme demonstration? Do the police swoop in and arrest them all, children and everyone? Imagine the optics of the Chiloni policeman carting off the little boy in the yellow star outfit!

EileenK

Let the street theater continue and let the court of public opinion judge it. In the United States, freedom of expression does not JUST PROTECT POLITE SPEECH. And yes the charedi street theater iscrass, and sexist (Where were the female prisoners??), but so what, and yes it is offensive. In the US, you don't have a right NOT to be offended. I'm not sure Israel works the same way. Maybe it doesn't. I find that sad.

Maskil

The prohibition on the use of the Nazi symbols will be enforced when not in the context of education, documentation or historical reporting.

But it will still be illegal? Basically, a law that can be enforced against anyone the establishment does not like at its whim and consideration?! Now we're moving towards Iran.

When my 4 year old daughter returned from Gan last year with a "Jude" yellow star stapled to her shirt I was shocked. Last week the protesters sent a message, I didn't like it but I understood.

Barry

The problem with this picture is not that it displays Nazi symbolism but that a child is being used to do so. Such use of children also explains why child abuse is endemic in Hareidi society.

It is a cornerstone of secular morality, stated explicitly by Immanuel Kant, that human individuals have an absolute right to be treated as ends in themselves—and never as means to achieving other people’s ends. It goes without saying that this right applies no less to children than to anybody else. Parents have no more right than anyone else to exploit children for ends that are obviously selfish—to abuse them sexually, for example, or to exploit them as servants, or to sell them into slavery. The exploitative use of a very young child as a prop for offensive demonstration purposes offends against this basic moral principle. You will never see moral people doing this. Of course one would not expect primitives such as Haredim to understand this, however the Israeli press should have not published this photographed without blacking out the child's face in the same way as they would not publish a photograph of children sexually abused by Rabbi father.

The relationship of parent to child is of course a special one in all sorts of ways. But it is not so special as to deny the child an individual personhood. It is not a relationship of co-extension, nor one of ownership. Children are not a part of their parents, nor except figuratively do they “belong” to them. Children are in no sense their parents’ private property, they cannot simply do what they like with them.

Children have a right not to have their minds crippled by exposure to other people’s bad ideas—no matter who these other people are. Parents, orrespondingly, have no god-given licence to enculturate their children in whatever ways they personally choose: no right to limit the horizons of their children’s knowledge, to bring them up in an atmosphere of dogma and superstition, or to insist they follow the straight and narrow paths of their own faith any more than they have no right to knock their children’s teeth out or lock them in a dungeon. In short, children have a right not to have their minds addled by nonsense.

If children have a right to be protected from false ideas, they have too a right to be succoured by the truth. And we as a society have a duty to provide it. Therefore we should feel as much obliged to pass on to our children the best scientific and philosophical understanding of the natural world—to teach, for example, the truths of evolution and cosmology, or the methods of rational analysis—as we already feel obliged to feed and shelter them.

Since, in so many situations, children are in no position to look after themslves, it is morally obvious that the rest of us have a particular duty to watch out for them. Israel fails in that duty by allowing backward religous fanatics to religiously exploit children which also explains why it also ignores sexual exploitation . Until Israel forces Hareidi children to be educated and if necessary removes children from their extremist parents then Israel cannot consider itself Western and secular. The Hareidim argue that the salvation of the Yaldei Tehran from their abusive hands of religious fanatics was a bad thing. Nothing can be further from the truth. It was a good thing that needs repeating not only in Israel but in Monsey, Kiryas Yoel, New Square and other such places.

Malka Gittel

I agree that what has been done with these symbols is repulsive and repugnant to anyone with a true sense of decency. Which is different from Haredi "tznius" obviously.

But deprivation of free speech is equally repugnant. Would the musical "Cabaret" be able to be performed in Israel under this? What are the lines between grotesque protests such as the Haredim have given us, and street theatre?

The laws in Germany and elsewhere have caused prosecution of books and their authors in those countries. Whether we agree with these or not, is there a right to stifle these authors' ideas in all cases?

I cannot believe that this sort of legislation is the only way to go.

ah-pee-chorus

Barry -

another superb comment. thanks!!

Betzalel

If you take away free speech, it makes it much more difficult to know who the idiots are.

Adam Neira

Good move by the Knesset.

God is not amused

How could they involve children in such vile antics? Ans: they are people with vile moral values/ethics as in: the end justifies the means.

I really despise them for making me think in these terms about my own kin. We always pulled together against the world. These people are divisive and nothing justifies their horrible selfish mode of existing.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Search this site with Google:

Comment Rules

  1. No anonymous comments.
  2. Use only one name or alias and stick with that.
  3. Do not use anyone else's name or alias.
  4. Do not sockpuppet.
  5. Try to argue using facts and logic.
  6. Do not lie.
  7. No name-calling, please.
  8. Do not post entire articles or long article excerpts.
***Violation of these rules may lead to the violator's comments being edited or his future comments being banned.***
6a00d83451b71f69e201b8d1656462970c-250wi

FailedMessiah.com in the Media