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January 06, 2012

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barry

you can tell he's bad news....

Michael

lashon hora... is it any more blatant in this article?

Let's spread some peace signs, gents and ladies. Need we divide ourselves even further?

Al

Boteach can be nothing more than a prostitue ! Nothing he has ever written is becoming of a rabbi based on traditional rabbinical opinion, not mine ! Shmuely chases theholey dollar - that's it.

He spends his life chumming up with young (mostly non-jewish)women talking about "kosher sex", he hangs with the star like Michael Jacksion giving support and comfort (what a tzaDIK)& now this book. What a joke of a rabbi.

Perhaps he should read some real history and see Israel at the time of Christ for what it was - The time of formative Judaism (vs. Israelitism) too.


All of that said, have you ever seen his home ? This spiritual, pious man lives like a king - literally.

Finally, I dont know why he's so focused on Jesus when he has the Rebbe. Perhaps for the reprint the cover should picture the Rebbe on the cross ! After all he is the true melech hamashiach and according to many is strill alive

Eva

Of course we must respect other religouns – and not white wash Our Own at the same time!

What are you talking about, when there are even Christians who don't accept Jesus' divinity, like these guys:

http://www.christianmonotheism.com/

Or Sir Anthony Buzzard?

B Klein

I indeed have gone on Amazon.com and clicked on the book, which is a drawing of Jesus with his pierced hand from his crucifixion. I clicked on the book and in the introduction saw it say Christians and Jews can unite in their common hero of Jesus, depicted as a Jewish “patriot” against Rome. Rabbi Boteach apprently believes he is doing a great service by taking the Deity figure of a Religoun with trillions of followers and publishing him as a non-deity (not a god or son of god – I am assuming) Orthodox Jew. Of course “Rabbi” Boteach has a strong need to make the godly figure of Christianity into a frum yid because maybe then the Chrsitians will become like him? Maybe this is an outgrowth of the declarations for years by many in LUbavitch that the Lubavithcer Reebe that died over 10 years ago is Moshiach. It wouldnt be a big jump then to say – then why cant this dead man be Messiah. I wonder what the Rambam or Rashi or Shulchan Orach or Rama or even Rabbi Moshe Feinstein and Rabbi Aaron Kotler havew thought about Jesus? Never mind the thousandsof Jews that gave their lives not to accept him in the Crusades or Inquisition o pogroms. No Compromise on Jesus has been the Judaic stand. Just as no Compromise on Idolatry. Of course we must respect other religouns – and not white wash Our Own at the same time! As a former spiritual; advisor to Michael Jackson and Al Sharpton, perhaps his head got to him. I’d rather read Jewish Response to Missionaries by Rabbi Kaplan or V’da Mah SheTashiv by Ben Solomon available on Amazon.com for the True Judaic perspective.

Yaakov

Leaving aside all of the "son of God" twaddle which I completely reject, I never really appreciated the core message of the Gospels until well after I was a religious Jew.

Not being religious, I read many texts of other traditions, the Gospels included. I didn't find too much in it for me, though there were some ethical points I found worthwhile.

My experience in dealing with the Rabbis, however, gave me a new perspective on the comments of Jesus. I don't know if there was or was not an historical Jesus, and frankly I don't care. I do know that—actual or composite—many of the complaints of Jesus are precisely what many of us hear complain, daily.

Does the fact that I believe there are genuine insights among the mythological codswallop compel me to become a Christian? No, of course not. It is only if I make the same mistake ba'alei teshuvah often make, in mistaking the existence of compelling description for knowledge of a practical solution that I would consider it. It is obvious, to me, that Christian theology is a hodgepodge of Torah and social bits from the era of its founding.

I would no more become a Christian because Jesus had the Rabbis' number than I would a Communist because Marx has lucid insights into the nature of socioeconomics. Both make excellent points against the orthodoxies they are concerned with, each (or theirr adherents) makes a proposal for a solution, a separate issue, and in my opinion, fails to provide one.

So, the complaints of Jesus make the most sense to a religious Jew suffering from the Rabbis, and the context of pre-Paulist Christian thought is purely Jewish. It's one of many cults of the time, it was just a lot more successful.

Eva

Then maybe I'll engage in the "pouring of lead" too to clean us of the ayin hara!

Eva

@Eva

We do have a clue, but apparently you do not.

More has been written, and more historical documentation exists about the Pharissees than does about Yoshke, and one does not need to be a historian to know this.

A suggestion. By and large, Jews have very little regard or respect for the "Jesus" idea. If you have an issue with this, you just might wish to avoid Jewish websites.

Posted by: Rebitzman | January 07, 2012 at 10:54 PM

Is that documentation authored by the same individual(s) who authored Toledot Yeshu?

And I'm sorry, I'll stick my little Yoshke voodoo doll with more needles while I type so that I'll be more acceptable in your eyes to post in your presence!!

Repulsive.

Truth Teller

I am a quiet follower of FM and appreciate Shmarya's coverage and the mostly interesting discussions that follow. I have never posted myself but feel compelled to do so now. I realize that there are many out there whose theology arrives at this contemptible way of thinking. Just as there are those whose theology arrives at spitting on children, and being sanctimonious while being welfare cheats.
But these words are almost identical to the kind of sewer talk that one would find on a skinhead screed if you just change the words around.
If you feel compelled to think this way please keep it to yourselves. Otherwise, don't be surprised when the next Hitler comes around accusing us of sick conspiracies.

So that's why Hitler came around - because some Jews had bad attitudes towards gentiles. Nothing to do with the turmoil in Germany following Weimar and the opportunity to grab power; nothing to do with centuries of church promulgated hatred for Jews that made us a handy scapegoat. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Observer

Korbendallas, Korbenchattos is more appropriate. Anything you post or say is totally insignificant, as you are.
Spray yourself with some strong insect repellent.

Radical Feminist

I mean to say that the idea of a messiah, in Judaim, probably does not predate the first century and evolved later after the Roman occupation. I have not found any evidence of the idea being solidified in Jewish thought before then.

Just Thinking

Rebitzman, so Rabbi Skobac, a leader of Jews4Judaism is a Christian? Oh, and the execution of Paul as an Apostate is anti-Jewish? Ok, and historical evidence showing that Jesus was not divine, a false messiah, should be covered?

Sounds like you are a closet Christian, or perhaps support the mass persuasion techniques used by Boteach.

Radical Feminist

I am not a scholar--but I seriously doubt that the idea of a "messiah" is a new invention in Judaism and probably does not exist long before the first century AD.

Rebitzman

blasphing the Rebbe

To even suggest this is possible is a violation of about a dozen commandments. Let's start with idolatry.

adams

It's typical smuley garbage, he is simply a brand name, he will sell certain number of copies of his book no matter what the title.

I am sad that some people actually follow him, go to his dopey lectures, he is nothing, a total waste of time.

Yoel Mechanic

It is easy to find out what Rabbi Boteach is all about: there are many youtube videos of his debates, shalom in the home tv show, google of his articles in Jerusalem post, and of course his books. He is very much in the media, and tries very hard to get as much public exposure as possible. I won't dwell on his history or personality, but rather his methodology. His goal has always been to bring Moshiach (he is a Chabad Lubavitcher, if that wasn't obvious), but he uses a different tactic: his audience often are goyim (nations), and his goal is to make Judaism so "cool" to the entire world that the goyim will get interested in Judaism (not necessarily to convert) and then they will shlep their Jewish friends along to the "cool" Chabad events. In brief; if the goyim get interested in Moshiach, then they will get the Jews interested. I think this is the starting point to understanding Rabbi Boteach. It seems to me, that despite all the things he has gotten into over the past decades, he has never deviated from this overall strategy. I find that very interesting.

Yosef ben Matitya

ruthie
when u spoke to rebbe mamesh he answered you?
on $ sunday?
wow! that's great.
which hat were you wearing then? and which hat are you wearing today?
and last friday?

Another Halocene Human

All the Xtian bookstores around these parts seem to be reduced to lives of quiet desperation (on their way to going out of business) so perhaps sell-out trash like this is exactly the pick-me-up they need! Or maybe not.

Shelved beside crap like "You're a King's Son" self-help nonsense, "Biblical Businessman", trampy teen-oriented Xtian manga, and sanctified ("by the Blood!") Xtian romance novels, scholarly (cough) polemic like this doesn't stand a chance.

Furthermore, the liberal quoting of the Gospels will offend Dispensationalists.

Korbendallas72

Surely even you can see that being insulting and blasphing the Rebbe is below you.
Posted by: Shmuley the Apostle!! | January 07, 2012 at 11:32 PM

Blaspheme the "Rebbe"? Bwaaaaaaahahahahaha!

Shmuley the Apostle!!

Thanks to you all, his book will sell like hot cakes.
This is his only intention. To make money.
He's all about money.
But you Shmarya, you really need to be more discerning on which comments you allow on your blog here.
Surely even you can see that being insulting and blasphing the Rebbe is below you.

Rebitzman

@Eva

We do have a clue, but apparently you do not.

More has been written, and more historical documentation exists about the Pharissees than does about Yoshke, and one does not need to be a historian to know this.

A suggestion. By and large, Jews have very little regard or respect for the "Jesus" idea. If you have an issue with this, you just might wish to avoid Jewish websites.

western jew

Schmuley where have you been?


Dearest Shmuley of the TV fame
Where is it that you are today?
I search for the best
And I find you among the rest
But of course you are bitter and wry

Words can not describe
Your antipathic sense of diatribe
That book on kosher sex
It is filed among the rest
In the heap on the moon
With a solution for few
And thus I must admit
That the Jews lived for 3000 years or more
And never had to check their deck
For the ounce of self respect
That a fellow like you has lost
In the dogmatic way of cutting cost
So that you can build your ferry
To the other side of the
Blessed
Ocean of
Insanity and Freakishness
That separates you from Heaven
And me from your soul

taken from www.sirwaltersbackgammontable.blogspot.com

western jew

Boteach has gone demonic. And that is a true statement. G-d is not going to bless Shmuley with the inroads for Jews to be 'enlightened'. This man is simply a pawn of a frisky poor mind. That is the world we live. This man buys his own dreidels from the communists. That is how unobservant his mind and being has become in terms of bringing more financial security to the jewish home. None at all.

Korbendallas72

Yes but how's his kashrut?

A Yid

http://www.wikinoah.org/index.php/Yaakov_Emden_on_Noahides#View_on_Christianity

zemel

yak 9:36 : "You are a sniper. You hide in the weeds and pop up to attack."

The yak is yaking ...

Dan

@Baruch Shelo Asani Haredi
Sorry but take better History lessons, Martin Luther was a freind of the jews as long as his followers saw him as the middleman between them and the Torah. After his followers went to learn from jewish Rabbis directly he changed his attitude. He wrote texts in Latin, that speak about the despicibale nature of jews, and so on and that it's a good deed to steal and rob from them, etc. It's beleived by historians, that his writings contributed largely to antisemitic images that were build in european society. It's even known, that due to the similarities that Hitler copied largely from Martin Luther's works for writing his book Mein Kampf. Martin Luthers work is seen as a source work for any antisemitic work appearing later in europe and germany. This are the facts of the "nice" evangelical church, that adhears to MArtin Luther. for example i will give a citation from MArtin Luthers work: "The Jews are a fully hopeless, bad, toxic thing, so that they are for 1400 years our plaque, pestilence and mishap and still are.In total they are devils... One should put their synagogues, their schools on fire, ... in honor of christianity, we should break and destroy their houses."(From: The Jews and their lies. Tomos 8, S. 88ff, author: Luther)

Eliyahu Konn

While I would agree that there appears to be some pandering on Schmuleys part, you might just consider that a couple millennium ago according to Oxford scholar James Parkes and Yeshiva University Louis Feldman, Jews cared about both Jews and non-Jews enough to work with them toward conversion to Torah Judaism. Maybe Schmuley really cares also about non-Jews. Anyway doubtless you will find he writes about a real tomb in Talpiot with real names and real bones, Jewish I might add. Of course don't be confused by the facts. Just continue the ad hominem of both the living and the dead. It has proven a very effective trade, lashon hara for the בית המיקדש.
proofexistencegod.com

Mamzer HaKodesh

I actually like this idea. Any potentially undesirable aspects of the author aside, this idea is not that new or unusual. If I understand correctly, a lot of Jesus' teachings were connected to living a law that centers around compassion and love, as were being hashed out by other rabbis of the time.

One of the things that really attracted me to Christianity were the gospels; especially the beautiful gospel of John. Jesus talks about, basically, doing the right thing. And a dying God was one I found powerfully potent. I didn't relate to the images in Jewish prayer of an angry, distant, overly-formal God. In fact, I once walked into a beautiful old Catholic church and saw a black and white drawing of Jesus; in this drawing, he was depicted as bruised, bloody and pathetic looking. And I thought - that's the kind of God I need. Not a God who sits around talking about his might and golden possessions. I need a God who's a homeless bum in the street lying in a pool of his own blood.

That might not make a lot of sense, but it's deeply moving to me. I also viewed the New Testament as much more compassionate and loving than the old Testament, and didn't understand why anyone would want to follow it.

What I was missing from this equation was knowledge. I didn't understand rabbinic Judaism, which has many horrible things in it, but is also full of compassion and love at the same time - even if it's done in a way that can be very stunted and human. I did not understand that the Lord's Prayer, seemingly THE Christian prayer, may actually have roots in Jewish prayer. I did not understand the historical context of either Testament, nor had I read parts of the New Testament aside from the gospels. I also did not understand that while much of the New Testament (as well as rabbinic Judaism) is infused with the beautiful knowledge of ancient Greek spirituality, the culture of ancient Greece was one where 90% of the population were enslaved. So something beautiful on paper didn't necessarily translate to true beauty in life.

I guess, ultimately, I thought the road was clear and straight and plain to see. Now I know there are a lot of potholes; wrong isn't always clear, nor is right.

So in conclusion, I think we should reclaim Jesus, if we are able to read his story/myth in an ancient Judaic context, we may benefit.

BeenThereDoneThat

Yitschak, many here are familiar with W4M's rantings, and most ignore it, and some are amused by it.

I am also one who feels that his rantings should be not be allowed to continue.

While we may be in the know, others coming to this site will not be.

And to them, it will look like we condone his words, because they often go without someone taking him to task.

And this will have dire consequences.

Dan

complete bullshit this approach of boteach in my opinion, he is out.

Yitzchak

See my past post, yidden! The brain of the goy was built by Hashem to listen to us ...then suddenly the goyim hae a new idol to pray to. ...It is permissible to have these discussions amonghst ourselves when not learning, but having them in front of the goyim is like feeding stakes to dogs....

I am a quiet follower of FM and appreciate Shmarya's coverage and the mostly interesting discussions that follow. I have never posted myself but feel compelled to do so now. I realize that there are many out there whose theology arrives at this contemptible way of thinking. Just as there are those whose theology arrives at spitting on children, and being sanctimonious while being welfare cheats.
But these words are almost identical to the kind of sewer talk that one would find on a skinhead screed if you just change the words around.
If you feel compelled to think this way please keep it to yourselves. Otherwise, don't be surprised when the next Hitler comes around accusing us of sick conspiracies.

tonda

Everything that Jesus says is Impure

Posted by: western jew

I'd love to hear you try to explain, rationalize, or defend that.

ruthie

wool silk cotton,

i beg to differ, in all due respect,
on dollar sundays, if and when i spoke to the rebbe, he always answered me...
he was very kind...
once i asked him something and two weeks later, on line, rabbi klein asked me about the blessing i had received....and he was standing next to the rebbe, speaking for him.
the rebbe spoke to me many many times.
sometimes when no one dared speak to him....i would ask him how he was, or ask for a bracha, he was happy to have someone speak to him.

Eva

Everything that Jesus says is Impure

Posted by: western jew | January 07, 2012 at 01:15 AM

You don't have a clue.

PishPosh

Im sorry, I have to disagree. When they debuted the play version of "The Disputation" in Los Angeles in Sunsets Tiffany Theatre, Hyam Maccoby and his wife were both there. I had the privelege and opportunity to have ten minutes of his time. He was very quiet and reserved man and his wife quite the matronly British lady. I told him how much I enjoyed his writing, and said I couldnt wait till his next publication

Any scholar who disagrees with him is usually someone who feels his Christian faith has been offended by Maccobys reading of the New Testament. He looks at the New Testament as a sincerely Jewish document that has suffered numerous editings but the underlying Jewishness is still there. Robert Eisenmans works such as "James, the brother of Jesus" is not that far removed from Maccobys train of thought.

Maccobys take on the sudden appearance of the Bar-abbas,as being a doppelganger insertion of later editors to further vilify the Jews and quit the Romans. But that Bar Abbas and Jesus were one in the same and the crowd was calling for the release of a sicarii, but a saintly man who had been wrongly accused In fact what Jesus said about the Pharisees was nothing less then what Shmarya says about today's Charedim.
Whitewashed Sepulchers, all polished outside but full of uncleanliness inside. Hypocrites who love the limelight, the best places in the synagogue, like Boteach and or today is is Ktav, Ktav this Ktav that. I imagine Jesus had the same Ponzi schemers like Madoff in his day.

People have pointed fingers at Maccoby but cannot prove none of his works, Revolution in Judea, The Mythmaker, Paul and Hellinism, etc are non credible scholarship. They are much like the Muslims who decry pictures of Mohammed yet forget that etched or painted pictures of Mohammed were quite common once. If I was the Pope I might find Maccoby offensive as well. Wheter you agree with Maccoby or not you cannot deny the points he makes.

At worse you can say Jesus was wandering maggid, at best a kook, but there is no denying that like many other Jewish saying and teachings that have been usurped by the Church and the Madman as Rambam calls Mohammed though he respectfully calls Jesus, the man from Nazareth.

Boteach is punk no doubt. But until you've read Maccoby or Eisenstein or Pinchas Lapide, or even Bishop Sponge and I mean a lot of their writings, you cant even come close to put them in the same boat with the malodorous Boteach. Though I did read his Lion and The Lamb and Moses at Oxford and wonder where he went crazy because they seemed the writings of a normal Chasisic author and not the posthumous works of Shabbatai Tzvi.

western jew

Everything that Jesus says is Impure, but they tweaked the system to make it appeal to the soul and the mind. It is not exactly in any way G-ds words and clearly is not Jewish. But alot of people have a hard time with the words of jesus because he is enlightened and the words are even written in RED in the bibles.

Eva

I'm no fan of Boteach, but I find it pretty ironic all of the people here attacking Boteach's book on a subject he allegedly "knows nothing about"--as if anyone here has any clue about the historical Jesus either.

Eva

Shmuely needs to read John chapter 8, the source of the "children of the devil" line so beloved by John Birchers. It says, and I quote "You (the Sanhedrin or the Pharisees, can't remember which) are of your father, the devil..." This was about the point that any interest I had waned as I threw the damned thing across the room.

Posted by: AztecQueen2000 | January 06, 2012 at 08:52 AM

Jesus attacked the Pharisees (founders of rabbinical Judaism).

What kind of issues do you have if a man criticized the religious leaders of his day? It's not like you knew the ancient Pharisees Jesus was talking about. For all we know, they were as corrupt as the Rabbis Shmarya blogs about here.

mimi

"As for the historical Jesus, I got news for you. Scholarly analysis is hard pressed to support that the New Testament character even existed."

Sounds about right for any claim of the supernatural.

I'm still holding my breath for the coming of Nagnarok, the Messiah, Messiah part deux, or even Quetzelcoatl but alas I hold my breath in vain.

Rebitzman

Being against Chabad doesn't automatically make a person an ally of Shmarya

The reverse is true as well.

Yochanan Lavie

Yaakov: Great joke.

Yoel Mechanic

>Freud and his mishegas, communism, feminism, "civil rights" for the dark ones, all these things were our doing.

Your earlier thing about Martin L. King was decent enough satire to bring a smile to my face. But this comment is meant to imply that all religious Jews are bigots: simply not true. Some of my best friends are ultra-religious, and are definitely not bigoted. These broadside accusations that come out of you in this cloaked, passive aggressive way is just simply nonsense.

Accusations of bigotry are best directed, in private, at the person who needs some mussar.

Chicago Sam

It's a pity the Shmuely did not compare or contrast Jesus with Rabbi Schnersohn, or the Chabad movement and the early Church--now that would be really interesting.

Yaakov

Simple Jew:

Let me try to make it simpler.

You seem to think that if someone is against Chabad that Shmarya would automatically support them. Shmarya isn't playing that game. He has principled objections to people's behavior.

Being against Chabad doesn't automatically make a person an ally of Shmarya, that's your approach, not his.

Malka Gittel

I think I'll go to the store and buy us all a snack while we discuss this. What a friend we have in Cheez-Its.

Yosef ben Matitya

Well, if Rebbe Schneerson can induce a messianic trans among his followers, why can't kosher Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth(described by Reb Shmuley, as the zionist patriot).
He even has haskama of that great tzaddik Rabbi Glen Beck Shlita!
All set, there u go!

Fleishike Kishke

The other Jesus walked on water. This Rebbe climbed the fence at Prospect Park.

Krima Pisk

Do you know what the Rebbe said to the Rebbitzen during their honeymoon?

MOSHIACH IS CUMMING!!!!

ah-pee-chorus

: Simple Jew -

you should read and hear interviews from people praising david koresh, applewhite, and jim jones. they must have been incredible guys with supernatural gifts worthy of awe and respect.
i mean if somebody says so it must be true.

the name SIMPLE jew fits well.

Simple Jew

Yaakov,

I think you should stick to the cheese jokes. Those I understand. I don't understand your reply to my post.

what do you mean here: "Shmarya doesn't have an anti-Lubavitch ideology. He has a problem with the behavior of particular people, and of those who attempt to adhere to the ideology of Lubavitch."

If anyone has not watched the video

http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/548435/jewish/A-Tree-Grows-in-Brooklyn.htm

They should.

If you have an open mind you will be very impressed by these interviews.

rebeljew

Its funny that you say that WSC since "walked upon the water" is most definitely a mistranslation.

Chicago Sam

Correction:

Earlier I posted that Shmuely did not add footnotes ... what I meant to say, he did not mention the L Rebbe or the Jesus Seminar in any of his footnotes, nor does he mention some anything about the debate regarding the "Historical Jesus" that has been going on for over a century.

RightJew

Does Boteach actually expect us to believe he's a rabbi? He cannot be considered a rabbi by any Jew with any respect for the Torah. Boteach has now mutated into an idolatrous missionary.

Boteach is mentioned in the Torah in a few places, for example:

"How did these nations worship their gods? I will do likewise."
Devarim 12:30.

WoolSilkCotton

I heard from reliable sources within Chabad that the Rebbe could walk on water, and he could turn water into wine. He also said a lot of clever things based upon the Old Testament.

George Walker

If you start out thinking like a Chabadnik you will end up thinking like a Christian.
alternate explanation, Chabad is claiming Jesus back from the Kabbalah Centre

Korbendallas72

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

tonda

having them in front of the goyim is like feeding stakes to dogs. Soon the dog will expect to be fed stake all the time, and when you run out he will try to eat you.


Vampire dogs. I hate those things...

Robert Wisler

"yechidus"

Why is there some invented special name for wasting one's time seeing this false messiah and accursed heretic Schneerson? It's the same thing as going to Khomeini or Bin Laden (both dead of course) and calling it by some bullshit title.

Waiting4Moshiach

So maybe we are all too hard on Boteach. If all he is trying to do is make a parnasa from the goyim by selling them books that none of us will read, what is the harm? See my past post, yidden! The brain of the goy was built by Hashem to listen to us even when we are just joking around and kibbitzing. And then suddenly the goyim hae a new idol to pray to. Not just this one, but think of all the others: Freud and his mishegas, communism, feminism, "civil rights" for the dark ones, all these things were our doing. It is permissible to have these discussions amonghst ourselves when not learning, but having them in front of the goyim is like feeding stakes to dogs. Soon the dog will expect to be fed stake all the time, and when you run out he will try to eat you.

ah-pee-chorus

Simple Jew--

i (with my parents) had yechidus with the rebbe 3 times. i can confirm that he was very nice during these meetings, and had an amazing memory. but what does that mean?
he was a charismatic guy of sound intellect with an above average memory. no more no less.

Oy_Vegas

Simple Jew--

There are similar testimonials about many Indian gurus from followers here in America.

Claiming some man is supernatural takes away from his worthiness as a man.

As far as the book, of course he left out the controversial part. Boteach calls it "Kosher Jesus" but it's really "Milchige Jesus".

Rebitzman

@Yaacov

If it's better than Miller's (and perhaps a little cheaper), I'm in.

Gary Kurlander

Not too many years ago I attended a debate at the 92nd street Y between Shmuley and Christopher hitchens on the existance of God. There I witnessed Shmuley's over-inflated ego at work; thinking he could compete with the likes of Hitchens. If he were someone I cared for, I'd have been embarassed for him simply because he didn't have sense enough to be embarassed for himself. At the end of one of Smuley's diatribes, Hitchens simply retorted by saying "white noise", which brought the house down because that's all Shmuley really had to offer to make his case. He was so outclassed and couldn't even see it. The man is a blowhard.

Yaakov

Yochanan Lavie:

I wanted to start a kosher cheese lobbyist group called "Jews for Cheeses".

Jewish Cynic

"hopelessly inexcusably naive for the supposedly savvy Boteach."

Rebel J. you should rephrase that as:

"Inexcusable use of well meaning naive people by the hopelessly corrupt, media savvy Boteach"

He's so good at snookering gelt from the goyim he ought to be one of Agudah's gedolim.

Yaakov

Simple Jew:

Shmarya doesn't have an anti-Lubavitch ideology. He has a problem with the behavior of particular people, and of those who attempt to adhere to the ideology of Lubavitch.

There is no reason why any particular person who is an atypical Chadbanik would be supported by Shmarya. The enemy of my enemy is my friend isn't valid here.

Yochanan Lavie

What's all this complaining about kosher cheeses? (humor)

Yochanan Lavie

There is a better book on the market. It is written by practicing Jews who are biblical scholars, and do not believe in Jesus's messiahship. It's called The Jewish Annotated New Testament, and it is NOT a missionary work. It simply puts the NT in an historical, Jewish context. (hat's next, the Artscroll NT, LOL).

No Light

W4M - You should change your name to 'Waiting4AdamNeira'. He's clearly starting to get annoyed that people aren't recognising his divine presence, and I'm worried he'll smite us all.

Simple Jew

B"H

This to me is one of the more memorable ones

http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/livingtorah/player_cdo/aid/548435/jewish/A-Tree-Grows-in-Brooklyn.htm

I apologize if we are not supposed to put links on the site - I know some blogs don't like that.

Also - this is off topic but I did not start it.

Finally, on topic -- you would expect Shmarya to be pro Boteach because he is not the typical lubavitcher. Amazing how even Shmuelly is disparaged here.

Simple Jew

B"H

To Shmarya and yechi ben levitas

On issue of incredible stories of people who met and talked to the Rebbe

Check out

http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/523698/jewish/My-Encounter.htm

I challenge you to watch 5 of these videos. Be a skeptic and pick ones of people who are don't look lubavitch and see what you think of their personal accounts of their personal interaction with the Rebbe.

Good Shabbos

Rebitzman

Shmuley, you're a slut and a whore. If I ever see you I will throw rocks at your car, spit on you and chuck dirty diapers at your house.

Or, I will just leave you to your silly self serving ideas.

Depends on how long my beard has grown over night.

rebeljew

I expect that groups that evangelize to Jews will buy up copies to offer for free to potential converts. Regardless of what it says inside, no one will ever care. They will simply use his own advertisements as their own.

As for the historical Jesus, I got news for you. Scholarly analysis is hard pressed to support that the New Testament character even existed. While it is true that the Jesus character in the NT sounds like a Chabadnik for the most part (with notable exceptions and non-Jewish additions), to present the subject in this way is hopelessly inexcusably naive for the supposedly savvy Boteach.

Yaakov

charlie runkel:

You are a sniper. You hide in the weeds and pop up to attack. You don't make any reasoned arguments or factual refutations, just assertions.

Argumentum ad hominem is sophistry, plain and simple. And, you aren't even good at it. Clearly you do this for self-satisfaction. You really aren't speaking for anyone but yourself. It's rude and selfish.

rjb

Stockholm syndrome... it explains so-called Rabbi Shmuley’s attraction to the Nazarenes. After all, they spent the last two millennia devising “better” ways to destroy Jews. (In the Stockholm syndrome, hostages would frequently identify with or otherwise support, embrace their captors.)

If this imbecile is so interested in promoting “beautiful ethical teachings,” perhaps he could write a commentary on Pirkei Avos... Oops, forget that, it been done. Maybe he could write a cookbook on, you know, something like “Kosher Pork.”

charlie runkel

honest?just two weeks ago he misquoted a article to trash the israeli police
chicago man he's a bitter man and thats what he does. unfortunately in this line of work he's bound to make mistakes and yet you never hear an apology. and what's about all his articles that chabad rebbetzins werent religious, unfounded allegations

tonda

I can't believe that you guys haven't "got it" yet!

Posted by: Robert Wisler

I get it. But in the same way that I get Lady Gaga. You understand what she is doing, but at the same time you still have to roll your eyes when she comes out wearing a meat dress.

Sarek

I accept Boteach's musings as much as I do Pat Robertson's. They are both tv publicity whores. Only difference is that Boteach doesn't ask for money. (I am assuming this; I've never actually seen him on tv.)

Chicago Sam

Actually, I think Shamarya has done more to benefit Judaism than a dozen Shmuely Boteachs. His FM has become in a way, the watchdog of the Orthodox community. Some of you may not like his brash style, but I find his postings refreshingly honest--and he is often quite eloquent.

Robert Wisler

Tonda,
Please... W4M's posts are a satire of the ignorance and blindness of the Brooklyn (heimishe) Jew. The mindlessness, xenophobia, ignorance of history and personalities (e.g. mixing up Martin Luther with Martin Luther King), "closeted-bigotry" (e.g. looking down on Sephardim as inferior to hareidim, Black/Latino etc "dark ones") that characterize the "heimishe New York Yid" has been captured perfectly by W4M's outrageous statements! I can't believe that you guys haven't "got it" yet!

Chicago Sam

Aztec raises a good point. Shmuely does not deal with the toxic sections of the NT that are (I might add, incorrectly) attributed to him, but reflect more the thinking of the Early Church. Any book about Jesus from a Jewish perspective must examine these problematical texts that have given rise to some of the most anti-Semitic ideas of Christian history.

In terms of scholarship, Shmuely has nothing to say about the importance of the "Jesus Seminar," which actually might have supported some of his basic ideas. The book has no footnotes to justify his arguments.

charlie runkel

truth be told shmaryais freakin jealous that somebody else was successful in chabad while he went down in jewish history as someone who spends his entire life putting up his ridiculous opinions and allegations of others.
Shmarya its time you grew up get a real life stop moping around and kvetching that others are more successful then you are

AztecQueen2000

Shmuely needs to read John chapter 8, the source of the "children of the devil" line so beloved by John Birchers. It says, and I quote "You (the Sanhedrin or the Pharisees, can't remember which) are of your father, the devil..." This was about the point that any interest I had waned as I threw the damned thing across the room.

tonda

EDIT: Change "pretend to speak for God."

to

"presume to speak for God.

tonda

...Reverend Martin Luther King, that at first he expected the Deutche Yidden to become good protestents...

Really? At first I thought you were an ultra-extremeist. Then I thought maybe just a clownish parody. Now I'm pretty sure its a medication issue.


But as to the article. It's really sad that people are trying to take ownership of a historcal figure like its the pink slip for a reallly nice car.

He was here, he said and did some stuff, people wrote about him. Anything beyond that is pure faith. Believe, don't believe, be unsure.

Differing opinions of him are good for comparison, discussion and civil argument. Unfortunately, there are those that would use them for anything from hurt feelings to war.

Man, God, or something in between, I'm sure he would be disappointed in all the people using his legacy for their own ends.

I don't have problems with people that speak with God. My problem is with people that pretend to speak for God.

Rochel

What surprised me is the title of the book. Religious Jews won't even utter the word 'Jesus', saying something like 'Yashka' instead. He is definitely being provocative.

Now that the pope stated/reiterated that the Jews did not kill Jesus, I am guessing Boteach is trying to capitalize on 'our close bond', especially among the evangelical Christians that are huge supporters of Israel. A smart move from a business point of view.

Chicago Sam

Good discussion.

First of all, my problem is not with what Jesus said, it is how Paul redefines Jesus's ethical message.

If you really want to understand what the original Jesus taught, read the book of James(who was the brother of Jesus)--which contains a scathing attack on Paul's cosmic redefinition of Jesus's role as the alleged, "Messiah." BTW, the book of James is a fantastic ethical tract on par with some of the best teachings of Pirke Avot. In this book, James calls Paul a charlatan.

I just went to the Amazon website to see whether Shmuely quotes the Rebbe's view on Jesus, who incidentally **never** referred to Jesus by name (he is always referred to as "THAT man . . ."). Guess what? He does not quote the Lubavitcher Rebbe even one time in his new book.

Surprised? I am not.

In addition, Shmuely makes no reference to Chabad's celebration of "Nittel Nacht," which I believe is an embarrassment to Jews everywhere.

So, I find myself wondering: Does Shmuely observe Nittel Nacht or not? If he does, that would take him out of the mainstream of Chabad. If he does observe Nittel Nacht, then he is acting like a hypocrite.

Personally, I think he wrote this book merely to make lots of money--lishma, "leshem mammon harbey."

Baruch Shelo Asani Haredi

W4M, I assume you mean Martin Luther, the founder of the German Luteran church during the Protestant Reformation. Reverend Martin Luther King was actually very friendly with the Jews of his time and counted many Jews among his supporters in the civil rights movement.

Waiting4Moshiach

I'm afraid that this is just going to get the goyim all riled up, expecting us to convert and become one of them. But what happens when we dont? Then they will get very angry with us. My Rav says that this is how it was with their Reverend Martin Luther King, that at first he expected the Deutche Yidden to become good protestents and then when we did not, he showed himself to be Amalek. Yidden should stop talking about this character and never tell the goyim what they believe. It would be like our telling a goyella that she should not believe in santa claws or their easter bunny. Besides, we are waiting for a different Mosiach.

Baruch Shelo Asani Haredi

Please tell me this is just a joke.

Michael

Yechi I think you are wrong about Josephus - I prefer to trust a real scholar like Geza Vermes who wrote that the Jesus passage was edited by the Church certainly but is based on an original version.

As for Boteach, he revolts me, another con man. Michael Jackson's rabbi says it all doesn't it?

Anon

Shmarya, great post.

About time someone took this Michael Jackson wannabe down.

BeenThereDoneThat

And now we have Chabads for Jesus.

What next!

Office of the Chief Rabbi

For every single Jew in the world, there are 125 Christians, hence more book buyers (not that all those goyim are literate). Besides , this will lead to more speaking engagements. Shver zein a shonda.

seymour

maybe he should start my offering some prove that the mythical Jesus existed

Eli

"I could declare myself the messiah right now. There's nothing blasphemous about this," Boteach said. Actually, I'm convinced you are the Messiah, Shmuley. Come you please get on your white donkey and save me? You can start by paying my taxes that are due in a couple of months.

just shut up already

Next he'll come out with a book on Kosher Adultery...oops he already did...

under duress

"Suddenly we have evangelical Christians emerging as the foremost supporters of the state of Israel," he said.

No, the fundies have been stumping for Israel for decades, at least. We're just hearing about it more because they're getting more press.

Shoshi

I just read that Shmuley was born in Los Angeles. Now it all makes sense, and I think we can cut him considerable slack.

I originally encountered Boteach's writings about 15 years ago, before he became the phenomenon that he is. They were written while he was a shliach at Oxford, and I actually enjoyed his insights. As I say, he has changed considerably since that time--but then, so have I!

The comments to this entry are closed.

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