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December 30, 2011

Terror In Beit Shemesh: Wheelchair Bound Orthodox Kids Harassed By Haredim

MO Girl Beit Shemesh Wheelchair closeup faceGirl in wheelchair says she was chased down the street and screamed at, by haredi kids who think her wheelchair violates Shabbat. An Orthodox boy in wheelchair has the same experience and adds that one of the haredi children tried to hurt him Another Modern Orthodox girl reports she was spit on and harassed because she wasn't dressed "modestly" according to the haredim. And her family was threatened, receiving a letter from haredi neighbors stating that "as a result of the complaints regarding your daughters' dressing habits, the rabbis of the neighborhod have decided that your family should leave this neighborhood within 2 months time."

MO Girl Beit Shemesh Wheelchair closeup face

The Channel 2 video report is posted here.

Shish summarizes what you'll see:

[A]t the 1:40 mark, the girl states "[haredi] children run after me, shouting 'shabbos! shabbos!', or from the windows. It is a very very big harassment" Another wheelchair boy wearing a kippah is then interviewed, and he states "I will be going to my friend, or just casually taking a tour, and there will be one [haredi] child who follows me the entire way. One time they tried to hurt me. And the whole time they are yelling at me and shouting at me, saying "it is prohibited (asur) to do this, it's prohibited'". The girl then states that in order to obviate this harassment, she started wearing a sign on the back of her wheelchair stating that a rabbi gave her an allowance (heter) to use the wheelchair on shabbat. Yet, despite the sign, she states that the haredi youth still harass just as much. The mother of the girl wants to move to a different neighborhood as a result of the harassment, but she doesn't have enough money.

The news reporter then interviews another family (at the 3:00 mark) that actually DID move out of beit shemesh due to harassment. One of the young girls in this family states that she repeatedly had rocks and eggs thrown at her, while being cursed and chased, for not wearing stockings during the summer. The girls states that she is "mamash mamash afraid of the hasidim". The young boy of this same family states that on Israel Independence Day, he was walking from the shul to his home holding an ISraeli flag...this resulted in him being chased by a group of Hasidim yelling "words in yiddish". Beleive it or not, this family actually received a letter from the Haredi neighbors stating that "as a result of the complaints regarding your daughters' dressing habits, the rabbis of the neighborhod have decided that your family should leave this neighborhood within 2 months time" (the actual text of the letter is show on the video at the 4:00 mark).

MO Girl Wheelchair Beit Shemesh sign

MO Girl And Boy Wheelchairs Beit Shemesh
MO Girl Wheelchair Beit Shemesh

Comments

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omg

Instead of moving out, disabled and handicapped should move in en mass and with all their accoutrements.

Shmarya, you making this stuff up? It can't be. Wow. I mean, WOW!

But come to think of it, looking back on my years in the Charedi world, I'd say it can be.

omg

You see, it's an electric wheelchair, so they can't imagine how it could be allowed in Shabbat.

After all, she might come to play music on it. Or... well, something.

I'm confused, was it a motorized wheel chair

I'm confused, was it a motorized wheel chair

Posted by: Confused | December 30, 2011 at 12:07 PM

what does it make a diffrence it has no impact on this story at all

it is disgusting what they are doing and lets see if the powers to be, the big gedolem finally comment on this instead on commenting on every nonsense they can think of

I'm confused, was it a motorized wheel chair

Posted by: Confused | December 30, 2011 at 12:07 PM

Yes, they were using electric wheelchairs. That is why the haredi youth felt they should harass these disabled children on shabbat.

we have to be more understanding of the charedim. this is another example of the non-religious butting into the peaceful and tolerant lives of charedim. the real issue here is the media. why do they have to cause such a story? the charedim have every right to attack and harass these people who have nothing better to do than ride in their wheelchairs on shabbos to destroy the beautiful yiddishkeit that would have otherwise been overflowing.
the charedim know how to lock up their kids with disabilities, why cant the evil seculars do the same? they must want the charedi kids to see some undeserved affliction so they question hashem. why cant the non-charedis learn to respect and 'live and let live'.

(/end sarcasm) did i miss anything?

not that its any of these abused and evil charedi kids business , but there are 'halachically acceptable' whellchairs as designed by some religious institute in israel which was appropriately skewered in bill mahers movie, "religulous".
but you can be sure these kids have been taught to ignore any ruling not made by their specific ignorant rabbi.

but you can be sure these kids have been taught to ignore any ruling not made by their specific ignorant rabbi.

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | December 30, 2011 at 12:33 PM
could it be they are acting out against their stupid rebbies but are afraid too, so they take their internal anger on others?

omg

But they didn't call her a slut or spit on her? How disappointing.

www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/113367/An-Open-Letter-To-The-Beit-Shemesh-%27Spitter%27.html

Oh but I'm sure Yaakov Menken will soon have a piece up describing how the girl in the wheelchair is the real provocation and we shouldn't get mad at the Chareidi for reacting to her.

in many similar cases around the world, you might expect that one or two kids in a crowd would step up and shame their friends into considering the moral aspect of their behavior. while i cant be certain that didnt happen here, i would bet it didnt. religious people arent taught to evaluate on a moral level. on the contrary , they are told they have no right to define what is moral. if the halacha is "do x" , then "x" is moral. if the halacha is "y is asur", then "y" is immoral. thinking on your own is both pointless and blasphemous. its no wonder that the moral part of fundies brains atrophies from non-use. and then we are left with kids like this who will grow up to spit on those they disagree with, vandalize property, stone police and soldiers, and desire to kill gays.

Lets face it they actually 100 per cent beleive that they are outside the rules of civilized behaviour they were shut out from the real world so thoroughly and for so long that they cant seem to understand that the real world is the opposite of what they were taught all their lifes.

seymour -

i dont think so. i would guess most kids their age still respect their rebbeim, even if they fear them. from your past stories i know you didnt, but werent you the exception?

Sometimes violence is the answer. The adults who did this and the parents who told their kids to attack children in wheelchairs have earned themselves some real Biblical attention. Beating with rods, smiting hip and thigh and a whole bunch more.

kids acting like this who really believe theyre doing gods will is evidence that teaching your kids religion is a form of child abuse.

This illustrates that it is not one person but a cultural religious reality which condones without words this behavior. These kids are who torment the handicapped are not evil but they articulate in the deepest sense the values and beliefs of the Haredi community. The bigest lie is to say thatthis is individual.

(/end sarcasm) did i miss anything?

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | December 30, 2011 at 12:28 PM

APC, you could have taken that verbatim from Deremes. It sounded precisely like something he would have said.

Jeff -

deremes and yechiel were my inspiration.

This story does not pass the smell test. Don't get me wrong. If true, it is detestable. However, it makes no sense that they would chase around kids in wheelchairs. I mean, what next? Drowning bunnies because they aren't kosher?

ah-pee-chorus:

I'm sorry. It was a nice try but if lacked the spittle-on-the-keyboard feel. It also wasn't infused with that prurient je ne sais quoi that we get from an authentic extremist.

Perhaps if you bang your head against the desk very hard several times just before you post you can get some of that going...

www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/113367/An-Open-Letter-To-The-Beit-Shemesh-%27Spitter%27.html

Posted by: Hocker411 | December 30, 2011 at 12:49 PM

Frankly, I'm amazed YWN would publish a letter like that - and I don't believe the author is Haredi. His grammar and spelling are too good, his vocabulary to comprehensive. At best, s/he is Modern Orthodox - and of course, as any Haredi will tell you, they aren't REALLY frum.

Also, read the comments. Out of thirteen so far, three either defend the spitting or dismiss it as "minor knavery".

I am speechless at this, and very sad. (I didn't see the video, just the summary posted above).

Even if this WERE against the Sabbath rules, these kids are sick sick sick, and their parents and teachers are sicker sicker sicker.

What ever happened to compassion?

I left Haredism 20 years ago, and I am so glad I'm out.

www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/113367/An-Open-Letter-To-The-Beit-Shemesh-%27Spitter%27.html

Posted by: Hocker411 | December 30, 2011 at 12:49 PM

-- and --

Posted by: Jeff | December 30, 2011 at 01:41 PM

It's a kiruv piece.

It's meant to be used as spin control and PR.

It has zero credibility.

Past that, Aish is run primarily by BTs with college educations – Eric Coopersmith or one of his friends could easily write that letter.

rebeljew:

In my own community, which is small but heavily black hat influenced due to the presence of a yeshiva in our small town, we had some trouble in the day school with the "frum" kids harassing the kids from conservative and non-black-hat orthodox families.

In the course of meetings designed to address these issues, a woman told a story about her own kids. She is a frum but non-insane woman with a middle-of-the-road hashkafa. She lives across from a church that rings its bells for services on Sundays.

She said her kids would cover their ears when the bells rang and, when she asked them why, they said, "we are not allowed to listen to them because they are avodah zara!" She was floored. She had never taught them anything like that. They'd picked it up from the rebbes in day school.

This is in a mainstream, American, mixed community. In Beit Shemesh? I have no problem whatever believing that the children would take it on themselves to do this based on what they learned from their rabbaim. It's like a sickness, and the cheder rebbes are among the very worst of it in many ways.

N.B.: I by no means intend to suggest that all cheder teachers are such fools, however, in my experience, substantive people have a very hard time staying in chinuch, and, chinuch is seen as very low paransa.

Yaakov-

next time.

It's a kiruv piece.

It's meant to be used as spin control and PR.

It has zero credibility.

Past that, Aish is run primarily by BTs with college educations – Eric Coopersmith or one of his friends could easily write that letter.

Posted by: Shmarya | December 30, 2011 at 01:47 PM

Yes, that should have occurred to me.

"I mean, what next? Drowning bunnies because they aren't kosher?"
posted by Rebeljew -

Lubavitchers in my family wouldn't let their children wear an article of clothing that had a non-kosher animal (e.g., a teddy bear or a butterfly) depicted on it, nor would they let them play with a stuffed teddy bear, etc. I went online to a Lubavitch website to ask about that, and the rabbi who responded said that was their minhag. When I challenged the basis for that he got disgusted and cut off our online chat. So...very unfortunately, your question isn't as outlandish as you might have supposed. I sure hope they wouldn't do that, but I'm not 100% convinced that they wouldn't.

jeff-

the letter was from aish.com and they know this will make it harder to fool people about what charedim stand for. they also refer to the spitting, but not the entire package of discrimination and misogyny inherent in frum judaism.

He went on from there and entered their synagogue. And a man was there with a withered hand. And they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”so that they might accuse him. He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And the man stretched it out, and it was restored, healthy like the other. But the Pharisees went out and conspired against him, how to destroy him. -Mt. 12:9-14

2,000 years later and still the same sad mentality towards the weak and vulnerable just to keep "Shabbos". Unbelievable!

When the rabbi's son or daughter is (God forbid) in a wheelchair, then we'll see what the halacha rules of the day become. That may be the only way these self-important distorters of Judaism will realize that if an able-bodied person can walk on Shabbat, then it's ok for one in a wheelchair to propel him/herself.

This isn't "only" about gender-harassment. It is about a fundamentalism that has pervaded the mindset of a sub-community within Israel that has yet to be truly attended to by the government. The national response cannot be short-lived, because this world-view is deeply rooted and will not be answered within one media-cycle.
-Rabbi Menachem Creditor

theese hareidim were so dominated all their lifes that they cannot stop themselfs from doing what was done to them, in the hareidi world domination is what makes you a human they live like in the animal kingdom

Why are there so many ba'ayois Rachmana Litzlan, in the Haredi community, that a kid would even need a wheelchair?
They should all get their mezuzos checked
And maybe rethink the gav al gav mikvehs

I meant bor al bor

They have successfully passed their intolerance and ignorance to the next generation. At this point, it is fruitless to expect these monsters to change their ways. There is only one solution: take their children from their midst and de-program them. As they live on the welfare rolls, there must be a communal punishment for teaching their children the hatred of anything that they do not or will not understand. Welfare must be stopped at once. The Gedolim that preached this ignorance should all be jailed.

As time goes on, there will be such a cry from the masorti and secular jews in israel that the government will be forced to act. These are not social problems, these are abominations. No human being should be able to teach their child that a physically challenged individual confined to a wheelchair is to be an object of their aggression. To hell with all of them.

so basically what you are saying is that all frum jews feel this way and its not only the screwed up POS fanatics which everyone reports is a very small percentage of religious jews who are doing this. I'm frum and I hate what they are doing and they should all be beat to a pulp, but because I'm frum I'm spinning it?
I don't really think you are being fare

Hocker411:

No, not all frum Jews are completely lost to the life-denying doctrine. But, it takes exceptional bravery to say, "No!", when someone says something that sounds more strict. Especially if that person is a Rabbi who is claiming that it is Torah!

If you are not familiar with Rabbi Slifkin's Blog, you should give it a read. His hashkafa is certainly not mine, but, was I still concerned about being "frum" he would be a model for me. As I recently wrote him, "I would say you have the makings of a gadol but I wouldn't want to insult you."

Posted by: Baltimore | December 30, 2011 at 01:55 PM

my friends wife as a teacher at a chabad school and was prohibited tio mention any animal that as not kosher or any stories that has them in it

Fanatics in all religions are crazy. "Too much" of ANYTHING is a BAD thing. End of story. Instill good in your children, and teach them the many beautiful stories from the Torah. The "scare" tactics, and harassment towards anyone "different" should be stopped at once.

so basically what you are saying is that all frum jews feel this way

Posted by: Hocker411 | December 30, 2011 at 03:13 PM

Nobody said "all frum jews feel this way". Stop putting words in people's mouths.

Nobody is attacking you or your frum family, nor do we care about your level of religiosity. We are attacking the Haredi culture of sexism, exclusivism, and intolerance which gave birth to these violent extremists.

ROUND 'EM UP!

... a woman told a story about her own kids. She is a frum but non-insane woman with a middle-of-the-road hashkafa. She lives across from a church that rings its bells for services on Sundays.

She said her kids would cover their ears when the bells rang and, when she asked them why, they said, "we are not allowed to listen to them because they are avodah zara!" She was floored. She had never taught them anything like that. They'd picked it up from the rebbes in day school.
Posted by: Yaakov | December 30, 2011 at 01:48 PM

When i was a child and still orthodox I had a similar experience. I grew up in a neighborhood that had several Jewish shuls (from orthodox to reform) and several churches. I knew the people in my neighborhood and learned that there were many kinds of people in my neighborhood and the world. I was visiting a friend for shabbos that lived in a neighborhood that had many religious Jews and non-jews. They lived across from a church and when the service ended I heard one of the siblings say: oh, look at all the cockroaches out there. Even as a child I felt so sad and didn't understand how they could say this about people they didn't know - I knew I wouldn't want the church go-ers say such things about jews leaving shul so why would we want to say this about them. The family was actually a very nice, relatively open family - I can only guess that this attitude was learned in the yeshiva and/or community. Sad.

Rochel:

That orthodoxy fails to teach love of habriot, and derech eretz, as foundational is the biggest disappointment i have with my people. I wish it was different, I would be able to stay, even with a lot of the other nitwittery if it were so. But it is not. Worse, the opposite is taught, Jewish Supremacy and the value of everything being measured by utility to the Jews.

This is a sickness, full stop.

The idea of harming the disabled is so revolting, I can't imagine that it still needs to be taught. Same thing with harming animals and children.

Rashaim.Animals.Worse than the SS!

jeff-

the letter was from aish.com and they know this will make it harder to fool people about what charedim stand for. they also refer to the spitting, but not the entire package of discrimination and misogyny inherent in frum judaism.

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | December 30, 2011 at 01:55 PM

I'm sure you're right.

Lubavitchers in my family wouldn't let their children wear an article of clothing that had a non-kosher animal (e.g., a teddy bear or a butterfly) depicted on it, nor would they let them play with a stuffed teddy bear, etc. I went online to a Lubavitch website to ask about that, and the rabbi who responded said that was their minhag. When I challenged the basis for that he got disgusted and cut off our online chat.

Posted by: Baltimore | December 30, 2011 at 01:55 PM

This doesn't surprise me in the least. Whatever the Rebbe told them - whatever they think he told them - they treat as a pronouncement from the mouth of God.

The Lubavitchers love to consider themselves a step above the rest of the black hat world. In reality, it's every bit as much a cult as every other Hasidic sect.

And yet so many of them run around with the skins of dead treif animals on their heads. And Jews have ridden horses, donkeys and camels for centuries.

A story about intolerance, taught at the orthodox day-schools.

When I was a child, my father enrolled me in the "After-School" program at a large orthodox school. (His reasons were strictly monetary-they charged a lot less than the Conservative/progressive school across the street where all of my friends went). The rebbe in charge of my class (I lasted less than a month). One day around the high-holidays, we discussed Yom Kippur. The teacher pointed at the school across the street and said that even the goyish chazzer eaters across the street observe Yom Kippur, even though it will do them no good-they have no nishoma.

I, at the brave age of 6, said that my friends that went to the school were not goys. I was told that if I was friends with them then I was a goy too. The next week saw me need to defend myself-my father was called because my older brother taught me his signature move when in a fight: knock em down and start kicking their balls repeatedly. I told my father I did not want to be called a goy by my teacher. My father was a working man, and did not take kindly to his kid being called a goy. We left the school after a few chosen words to my rebbe. The rebbe called all of us goyim, then turned and hid in his office.

I see that the Extremist Haredim are teaching their next generation of ילד רע how to cope with compassion towards their fellow Jews, and appreciate the wonders of modern technology.

G_d save Israel

And yet so many of them run around with the skins of dead treif animals on their heads. Posted by: A. Nuran | December 30, 2011 at 05:48 PM

That is a good point! We should ask them to justify that!

And yet so many of them run around with the skins of dead treif animals on their heads. Posted by: A. Nuran | December 30, 2011 at 05:48 PM

That is a good point! We should ask them to justify that!

Are electric hearing aids also not allowed on Sabbath? This is weird. Humans run on electricity. I think I'll power down...

You know, I don't consider myself a violent person; but one of my closest friends is in a wheelchair. If I saw ANYONE harassing ANYONE in a wheelchair, my first impulse- and one that I would probably follow- would be to simply beat them to a pulp. And you know, that's probably the only thing that the haredim would really understand.

Great story, Alter Kocker. The rebbe was a pussy. Your Dad would've kicked his ass.

When I was a kid in the 60's, Oak Park, Michigan, the fruma parents didn't let their kids play with the "degenerate" conservative Jews like me, my brother, and the neighbors. I'll never forget how they yelled at them to "Get away from the goyim."

uh, yeah, great story. so apparently, being called goy is equivalent to being called n----r? even for conservative/progressive? cool story bro.

Okay, they've crossed the last line here. Time for the government to quit worrying about their precious votes here. They aren't contributing to society and have lost whatever shred of either Jewish or human decency they might have had. Any concessions to this group is too many.

There's not much else that needs to be said, so I'll violate Shabbos to say that these people are animals.

In Crown Heights, families with members with disabilities tried so hard to get Congregation Lubavitch make their synagogue, 770, wheelchair-accessible. But it was like "talking to the wall." Neither the “Rebbe” (whose love for *all* Jews was boundless by the way) his staff, donors or other members gave one shit about these people, and they treated as nuisances those who made such requests. As someone else pointed out, Lubavitch is well known for smothering, I mean, Oy nebach, losing, down syndrome and other “deficient” babies.

The Lubavitchers love to consider themselves a step above the rest of the black hat world. In reality, it's every bit as much a cult as every other Hasidic sect.

Posted by: Jeff | December 30, 2011 at 05:28 PM

But they do have better PR and they do occasionally pretend to be normal.

As someone else pointed out, Lubavitch is well known for smothering, I mean, Oy nebach, losing, down syndrome and other “deficient” babies.

Posted by: Fleishike Kishke | December 31, 2011 at 12:52 AM

I haven't heard that before but they certainly seem to have a high proportion of disabled children, I guess mainly due to their refusal to have prenatal tests, inbreeding and lack of parental care leading to behavioural difficulties.

n Crown Heights, families with members with disabilities tried so hard to get Congregation Lubavitch make their synagogue, 770, wheelchair-accessible. But it was like "talking to the wall."

all public places must be wheelchair-accessible. i'm surprised 770 wasn't made wheelchair accessible. with all those people there every sunday waiting hours for brachas ...wow that never occurred to me. i'm ashamed.
so easy to forgot people who need organ donations or people who need places to be wheelchair accessible.
we must all try very hard to be sensitive and try to help

Posted by: mimi

Yes, our bodies generate and run on electricity 24/7.

EKG, EMG, EEC are all measuring the naturally occurring electricity in our bodies.

I guess whoever created these systems was not shomer shabbos.

What do you want from people who don't say Thank you, don't say Have a good day, don't hold the door open for others or whatever passes for common courtesies in every society except theirs?

What do you want from people who regard themselves as the only beings created in the image and likeness of hashem and denigrate the rest of us as goyim, the worst epithet they can think of?

They are a bigoted, small minded, ignorant, holier than thou community.

For me, they are a living example of avodah zorah, those who have totally rejected hashem, those who have made hashem in their own very limited image.

For clarity:

I guess whoever created these systems was not shomer shabbos, would be better stated, Whoever created our bodies was not shomer shabbos.


The Lubavitchers love to consider themselves a step above the rest of the black hat world. In reality, it's every bit as much a cult as every other Hasidic sect.

Posted by: Jeff | December 30, 2011 at 05:28 PM


But they do have better PR and they do occasionally pretend to be normal.

Posted by: David | December 31, 2011 at 02:34 AM

If there is ANY group of Jews who are a brainwashed cult, it's Lubavitch, with their utter and absolute devotion to a dead Fearless Leader and their absolutism. Most of them can hardly translate a blat gemoro properly and have to rely on translations of the infallible pronouncements of Fearless Leader because they don't even speak the same language; yet they insist that they are doing everything exactly as he instructed. "Real" Lubavitchers, (I hope), are appalled by what has become of their group. The young Lubavitch "rabbis" are a joke.

The only reason they act "normal" is because they know that's how to get recruits. But if you carry on a conversation with a typical Lubav shliach for more than 20 minutes you will see that he is totally ignorant of the greater world around him, and can't even go beyond muttering the same mantras over and over.

Interesting OpEd in YNet

Israel has bigger problems

Op-ed: Women’s exclusion gets inflated attention; we have bigger issues to deal with

In the eight days of Hanukkah, three people were murdered in Israel and the murder of a child killed on the eve of the holiday was solved. A resident of the northern “triangle area” was gravely wounded by assassins. Terrorists fired at an Israeli vehicle in Samaria.

...

Yet nonetheless, most attention here in Chanukah was dedicated to an eight-year-old girl spat on by a local idiot.

Priorities distorted

Ladies and gentleman, you got carried away. The inflated preoccupation with the phenomenon of women’s exclusion does not only constitute a wild exaggeration and a cynical distortion of our priorities, it is also a lethal boomerang.

The ultra-Orthodox community suspects that the major campaign against women’s exclusion is not premised on frank concern for women, but rather, on deep hatred for haredim. Hence, instead of developing anger at the violent minority within it, the haredi community is developing a feeling of collective persecution.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4169026,00.html

"Not Simple", this is so typical that of muslims and haredim to play victim, while, in actuality, being the victimizers.

I agree that we have much bigger problem then haredi habit for spitting at children and harrasing women. The bigger problem is that the entire unproductive haredi population is on the dole. They take, take, take and take, while giving nothing in return. The reason they state for being eligible to take other people's hard earned money is that they are not killing anybody (yet). Practically they are threatening that if others don't feed their parasitic habits then they will get violent. This is the real problem.

Not Simple:

At this point, it really doesn't matter what they think. They are either going to figure out how to coexist or be marginalized. It's beyond diverting by pointing at the "evil Arabs" now.

People see the same religious zealotry they don't accept among the Muslims happening among Jews. It's going to have to stop.

all public places must be wheelchair-accessible. i'm surprised 770 wasn't made wheelchair accessible. with all those people there every sunday waiting hours for brachas ...wow that never occurred to me. i'm ashamed.

If they can't wheel 'em in, you don't have to "brocho" them, and you don't have to explain why the "Brochos" didn't work.

The deep hatred for hareidim is natural and is premised on fear for one's children.

Hareidi backwardness resulted in life expectancy for Jews in Eastern Europe being about 30 years. Infant mortality in the old Yishuv reached 80%. The insane Jerusalem rabbis in the 19th century campaigned against hospitals being set up during a plague.

Backwardness and poverty would kill more than three people over a week. The reason Jews abandoned orthodox Judaism in their droves during the early 20th century was not to do with deep philosophical issues but rather with not wanting to see one's children live miserable and short lives in the backwardness and poverty which hareidi medievalism brought about.

Hebrews, Israelites, Judahists, Jews ... through the years the name has changed. It's time to change again. Let the frumma keep Jew. It's time to re-brand as something else. There needs to be a schism. Let the Hareidi, or Jew if they prefer, fend for themselves. I share nothing with them. I feel nothing for them.

Fleishike Kishke:

I have proposed that they can have "Yidden" and "Yiddishkeit". The rest of us can keep "Jews" and "Torah".

++Gevezener Chusid | December 31, 2011 at 04:30 PM++

Totally agree.

these FEW charedim should be locked up and the key should be thrown away. They need psychiatric help. Hitler and today's neo-nazis gain in stature when pictures of these insane idiots are seen througthout the world. RABBI DR. BERNHARD ROSENBERG

If I was a child welfare worker in Israel, I would think that incidents like this could be a reason to remove the perps from their homes, given the completely inappropriate education at home.

The Mishna deals with the case of prosthetics used for mobility by the disabled and amputees. The issue here is not halacha but whether a subcommunity of minim can enforce their minut customs on Orthodox Jews. A commenter above gave a comparison to Christianity. That is exactly the case. Just as the Christian and similar cults had their own practices that they considered "stricter" and considered normative practice unacceptable, the minim today which we call "Haredim" also do the same. To allow their practices to take over would be a fulfillment of the prescient statement in Sanhedrin "and the whole world will turn to minut".

They are either going to figure out how to coexist or be marginalized.

One cannot marginalize an up and coming majority unless one turns to a dictatorship like in some of the arab countries. Saddam Hussein was able to do this but lost in the end.

If there is ANY group of Jews who are a brainwashed cult, it's Lubavitch, with their utter and absolute devotion to a dead Fearless Leader and their absolutism. Most of them can hardly translate a blat gemoro properly and have to rely on translations of the infallible pronouncements of Fearless Leader because they don't even speak the same language; yet they insist that they are doing everything exactly as he instructed. "Real" Lubavitchers, (I hope), are appalled by what has become of their group. The young Lubavitch "rabbis" are a joke.

The only reason they act "normal" is because they know that's how to get recruits. But if you carry on a conversation with a typical Lubav shliach for more than 20 minutes you will see that he is totally ignorant of the greater world around him, and can't even go beyond muttering the same mantras over and over.

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | December 31, 2011 at 04:30 PM

My nephew has been brainwashed by them. I agree with you completely.

So are they Tallitbanis or Jewhadists?

Not Simple:

You said,
One cannot marginalize an up and coming majority unless one turns to a dictatorship like in some of the arab countries. Saddam Hussein was able to do this but lost in the end.

The difference here is that the charedim are being financed by the state. They don't have the economic ability to maintain the institutions that perpetuate this pernicious twaddle. They depend on the victims of their zealotry for material support.

It is time to stop paying these usurpers to usurp, and in doing so, they will be marginalized.

Growing up in Bobov it was very common for the kids to persecute the physically or mentally disabled, running after them with taunting names, etc. So it is no surprise that this pattern of behavior continues on with the next generation.

This could not possibly be true. If it is then "Woe the Holy Land !"

It's unfortunate that the Haredim feel that they are victims in Israel. What chance do they have of success in today's world? Their spiritual life has been corrupted by anger and fear. If in Israel they cannot be happy as Jews, where can they go?

Now I get it. If it was a motorized wheelchair, it's OK to harass and frighten disabled children. Very cool. What religion is this?

They are Tallitbanis every day moving closer to Jewhadists.

I guess they're serious about not rolling on shabbos

the charedim have every right to attack and harass these people who have nothing better to do than ride in their wheelchairs on shabbos to destroy the beautiful yiddishkeit that would have otherwise been overflowing.

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | December 30, 2011 at 12:28 PM

ROFL!!

The problem I think, is education, the Gemmara writes nothing about wheelchairs motorized or otherwise. If a school is permitted by the state not to teach anything outside the arena of the Gemmara (besides a bit of maths and language) then how can these kids have a grasp of what the thing is? We as society can not permit a syllabus that teaches nothing but Gemmara and Talmud. It is ridiculous to think that a child can be insulated from the modern world indefinitely, and if the child can not be insulated then he/she must be prepared for it. That means a half decent education.

These people who harass kids in wheelchairs are not practicing Judaism, they are practicing Haredism, and in an evil way.

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