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December 13, 2011

National Radio Host Compares Halakha To Sharia Law, Condemns Both, And Condemns The Brooklyn DA For Going Soft On Haredi Child Sex Abuse

Michael SavageMichael Savage attacks Brooklyn's DA Charles Hynes and says religious law – be it Muslim, be it Jewish, be it Catholic – cannot be allowed to trump US law. But a man calling himself Max and identifying himself as an Orthodox Jewish former employee of the DA calls Savage and defends Agudath Israel of America and Hynes. He claims that while a problem exists with child sex abuse in haredi communities just as it does in other communities, the haredi community and its leaders do not protect pedophiles, and that dina d' malchuta dina, the law of the land is the law, is strictly followed by haredim, and that haredi rabbis do not decide which allegations of abuse are reported and which are not. And almost everything the man said is a lie.

 

Lets be clear.

Dina d'malchuta dina does NOT always apply, and the halakha "Max" misquotes makes that perfectly clear.

Past that, Agudath Israel of America itself has, on tape and in public, said very clearly that allegations of abuse must be vetted by their rabbis to determine if those allegations should be reported to police or ACS.

And Agudah and Brooklyn's DA Charles Hynes have worked out a system whereby haredi rabbis can report alleged child sex abuse or alleged child rape directly to Hynes Jewish liaison, bypassing the police and ACS workers trained to investigate allegations of child sex abuse and child rape, and keeping the alleged pedohile's name and the fact that the case exists secret.

These haredi pedophiles are allegedly offered sweetheat plea deals that involve no prison time and no sex offender registration, and if they plead guilty, their names and the existence of their cases are hidden from the public.

Did Hynes or his staff ask or pay "Max" to call Savage?

Was the call with Savage pre-arranged?

I don't know.

But I do know "Max" lied, and he did so in the name of Orthodox Judaism.

Comments

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I didn't listen to Savage but the fact is that Halakha IS INDEED comparable, or at least analagous to Shariah Law. I don't think any Haredi person who has a clue as to what Shariah Law is all about would dispute that.

Savage is a moron and so is his buddy Max

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | December 13, 2011 at 03:09 PM

yep

if they completely disallow Shariah Law then they will disallow beis dein and stuff like that

Savage (real name Weiner) is a racist and a man who tells gays "I hope you die of AIDS" etc. He is a disgusting human being, and not the sort of individual with whom I would imagine Failed Messiah would wish to associate, even to expose Haredi child molesters.

I didn't listen to Savage but the fact is that Halakha IS INDEED comparable, or at least analagous to Shariah Law. I don't think any Haredi person who has a clue as to what Shariah Law is all about would dispute that.

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | December 13, 2011 at 03:09 PM

Indeed, s/he'd probably be proud of it.

Just as the occupy wall street lunatics blocked business,bridges and disrupted life in lower Manhattan Some 100 haredim in Jerusalem's ultra-orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood blocked a road in order to stop Egged bus line number 1 from passing through the neighborhood Tuesday afternoon. Which it seems many people voice their anger in this way.
At the same time while they blocked the bus they also overturned a baby carriage - with a baby in it - in front of the bus.
The heading on FM suggest that's they THROW a baby in front of the bus and the bus almost killed the child and that's not the case here.

To an outsider like Savage, covering up for child molesters is an outrage. To the Orthodox Jewish community, it has become not only acceptable, but it is SOP. This is what happens after decades of misapplication of halacha and the desensitization of the frum community.

Opps sorry i posted on wrong thread

Although I am fairly observant, I have to agree with Savage. Both Sharia and Halacha are outdated, and the state has a compelling interest to make sure there isn't a parallel legal system competing against it.

Yidden are always the worst enemies of Yidden. Some seculars already demand a ban against shechita, bris milah, the eruv, and all of our way of life. So again I say, Yidden keep a suitcase packed and have three passports at least. As in Germany, when the end comes it comes fast and those who wait too long can find the door shut sooner than they thought. I suggest China where they value Yidden.

I suggest China where they value Yidden.

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | December 13, 2011 at 04:27 PM

Hock mir nisht in China.

Dina demalchusa dina only applies where the law of the land does not obligate you to violate a Torah precept. For example, if circumcism would be banned, a Jew would be obligated to do so.

Nevertheless, for the Agudah, who have proven themselves to be incompetent at best in the area of child molestation to be mandating that you report to Rabbis first, is an out and out disgrace!!!

Savage is RIGHT!!!

'Savage' is a big fat blowhard, and his 'callers' are prescreened sycophants or patsies.

The frumma love him because he hates gays and shvartza. The mere mention of his name on VIN brings on gushing accolades.

Well, according to the NY Times the White House has now decided to allow Chabad to totally control its kashrus.

This is from the front page of the online edition from today:

"Into the kitchen rushes a Lubavitch SWAT team of three rabbis and an intern. Three men, wearing aprons and industrial-strength rubber gloves, take on the ovens and burners. The fourth, in a suit and a black hat, is Rabbi Levi Shemtov, director of the American Friends of Lubavitch (Chabad). He is the supervisor-in-chief. "

I guess no one told them that these morons will never vote Democrat and only use this opportunity to gain more recognition for Chabad as the official Judaism of the White House.

Savage has nothing on Gays. He is against gay marriage becoming law.

Shmarya you never fail to amaze me Savage who is a known Right wing extremist only get s positive mention on your site when he say's a sharp comment about frum Jews.

Same goes for Hynes he becomes a Tzadik when he wants to lock up Yitzi Shuchat.

I mean make up your mind

Mike Weiner is a truly reprehensible creature and a poor excuse for a human being. He's right this time, though. Sharia and Halacha are the same sort of thing.

Sharia and misapplied halacha are the same sort of thing.

Waiting4Moshiach:

"Yidden are always the worst enemies of Yidden. Some seculars already demand a ban against shechita, bris milah, the eruv, and all of our way of life."

Even if this complaint is factual, it is unrelated to the content of this story. We are not talking about banning eruvin, shechita, or brit mila, we are talking about banning the protection of child molesters. If the orthodox community really *did* handle these problems internally, there might be some grounds for complaint but they simply *don't*. They protect the criminals that do this. Yes, they are criminals. They do enormous damage to their innocent victims. Children, *real* innocents; their parents, who trust these abominations with their children; and Jews in general, who look like animals as a result.

So, perhaps you are right, perhaps Jews are our own worst enemies but if that's the case the very worst among us are not the ones that refuse rituals but those who claim the mantle of Torah and then shelter human scum under it, calling it righteousness.

The Real Joe:

Your argument is a fallacy. It is called "argumentum ad hominem". Even if everything you say about Savage is true, it is completely irrelevant to the content of his argument. He is *correct* in the specifics of what he said. It doesn't matter who says something true, the true doesn't become false when uttered by a contemptible person.

shmarya is correct that dina demalchuca doesn't apply; By issur (non-civil) halacah is superior to the constitution. As for Agudas Yisroel's statement according to r shafran: http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/07/22/agudath-israel-statement-on-reporting-suspicions-of-child-abuse/

My issue is he doesn't clarify the law's definition of “reasonable cause to suspect” and what “raglayim la’davar” (roughly, reason to believe) means.

Those who criticize Savage are ignorant. Dovid YOU are disgusting, Savage was set up the day he made that comment. He's not racist, not a gay basher. A gruff New Yorker, yes. But he's a huge intellect. A lot of people don't like him because he doesn't play the game and says what he wants and like it is.

But ignorant small people like you can only shoot the messenger rather than speak to the real issue.

Oh, by the way these same guys who tell us to go to a Bes Din and call their Rabbis are the first to run to courts when they have disputes.

No, Steve, Sharia and Halacha unless you want to specify misapplied Sharia and misapplied Halacha.

Both are comprehensive religious-legal systems. The only real difference is that Halacha as we recognize it has never been tested on a national scale in the real world. Sharia, with all its problems, inclusions, injustices and so on has had to work and provide a real legal framework that fills the basic needs of kingdoms and empires.

Actually, Shmarya, dina dmalchuta dina does always apply. What we are seeing is a perversion of halacha on the part of the haredi "rabbis".

i came to the conclusion the reason the rabbis dont want anyone to go to the police about child molestation is, since they created this deviate behaviour by all the rules that is impossible to abide by they cant face their own terrible selfs they cant admit that they are faulty in their perception of the world around them.

Sharia varies from country to country but in many of the forms we see it is horrific. Halacha's main problem is that it's very outdated with respect to Women and non Jews, gays, etc.. Not saying that its' all bad but too much of this dependance on laws made under very different circumstances gives many the impression that Halaca and Sharia are one and the same, in some respects this is an accurate observation.

Protecting criminals and re-victimizing the victims was practiced in Biblical times- in the countries of Sodom and Gommorah. The Torah these enablers follow is the Torah of Sodom, not the Torah of Moshe. Islam is also a gross misinterpretation of our Torah. Burka ladies, protecting child molesters, pidyon shvuyim funds for notorious criminals/terrorists, are all manifestations of religion gone awry. It is when individuals grossly misinterpret the laws that gives rise to such corrupt societies. Michael Savage is spot on. By allowing this perversion of halacha, we have become like the Muslim societies and like the Sodomites. Kimat Kisdom Hayeenu, K'Amora Dameenu.

I retract my earlier assertion about Dina Demalchusa.

What are all the orthodox proud conservatives now going to do when their icon (that they slavishly follow and quote) turns on them !!

What are all the orthodox proud conservatives now going to do when their icon (that they slavishly follow and quote) turns on them !!

Savage is right on!

adams, halacha is absolutely horrific in many ways. Its system of justice is bizarre and unworkable. The minutia of the laws are impenetrable, contradictory and often so highly abstrusely theoretical that they couldn't possibly be applied in the real world. The tradition of Daat Torah, obedience to rabbis, things which are crimes, things which aren't, ever-ratcheting chumras, the truly shitty status of women - much worse than most Muslim ones if you want to be strict about it - the constant splintering, so and so forth only look better if you're heavily emotionally invested in that particular one.

Sharia has been many things in many cultures over the centuries, so good, some not.

But as I say, it has had to work. Halacha never has. Not the Sanhedrin, not the laws about killing people who slip a little honey into the Temple incense, not the sabbatical year, none of it.

And if you want to actually be fair about the comparison you have to either say "A lot of that is local tradition so we'll cut Sharia the same slack" or say "That nasty tribal stuff IS Sharia, so we have to apply the same standard and engender the same disgust for our tribal taboos."

Michael: "Those who criticize Savage are ignorant. Dovid YOU are disgusting, Savage was set up the day he made that comment"

Really? And how was he set up? I have heard the radio clip and there was no set-up.

Plus, campaign to burn Mexican flags? Kill 100 million Muslims? 99% of kids with autism are just "acting like a putz."

Yes, he talks like a gruff New Yorker. But he's also a disgusting racist and homophobe. He always tries to claim that his vile comments are taken out of context by "Stalinists" as some sort of conspiracy.

As a failed academic,he knows exactly what he's saying, and the effect of his words.

Dovid,

I've listened to his show for years - he's explained all those accusations and how they were taken out of context. Anyone who speaks for years for 3 hours a day can have things quoted out of context.
As far as I remember he said had a pilot TV show and he said someone from the Homosexual lobby called in and provoked him intentionally and he made a mistake with that comment of course. That does not make him a homophobe. He's explained his comments regarding autism in detail on his show - I don't remember the details.
I wouldn't mind being a failed academic if I had many best selling books on NYT list, earned millions a year, had a PHD in a scientific field. Are you doing better than that Dovid? Are you jealous maybe?

Savage/Weiner speaks the truth, but the truth (to some) hurts.

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