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December 17, 2011

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Channah

Does anyone else think that this smacks of Saudi arabia and afghanistan ?? I thought we were better than that .. these extreme orthodox are no better than the taliban or wahabis .. what next - women in burkas ? oh no - been there - doing that right now .. perhaps total segragation - just keep women in thier houses 24/7 - that is where they belong after all isnt it ??

YS

How interesting that the most salient point of this story is left out of this article. When you read the link to Rosenblit's ;version of the story, she does have the integrity to say, ".I had an appointment in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in Jerusalem and looked for easy transportation on a Friday morning. After checking the official Egged site, which is the leading bus company in Israel, I decided to take line 451 from Ashdod (my hometown) to Jerusalem. I chose this line because it stopped a mere five minute walk from my scheduled appointment.
The driver looked at the station where I was standing and didn’t stop. I had to signal him by raising my hand for him to stop. When I entered the bus he looked surprised. He explained that the only ones who go on the bus are Orthodox Jews."
So we see clearly that this was, in fact, a route that had an Orthodox clientele, who would normally separate women and men (women to the back for perfectly legitimate Tznius reasons).
When a non-Orthodox person enters an Orthodox area, she could, by law, dress in a bikini, should she so choose. For some reason, [your article does mention that] she chose to dress "modestly". Could it be because this is the normal, "mentchliche" thing to do when one enters a different culture... not to be confrontational and outrightly disrespectful? Could one not argue that "no one is going to tell me how to dress"? Sure, but social conventions say that that's not "mentchlich"! So, why should it be considered "mentchlich" for her to "challlenge the norms" of the Orthodox bus route? When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
(Of course, the man in question is an idiot for allowing himself to be drawn in to a confrontation, and for protesting as he did, and for not caring about the Chilul Hashem that would likely result from his actions. But it takes two to tango, and, as I've said before, both sides have to be respectful of each other, not only the Haredim of the non-Haredi.)

rebeljew

The police officer did the correct thing. The law is that she was not to be removed unless she did so voluntarily. He asked her. She refused, and he executed the law as written.

If the officer had not done so, the Haredi could say that he was not given sufficient opportunity to get her to comply voluntarily, and that the police escalated the situation unnecessarily. They could then paint her as an agitator and the police as enforcers of the liberal state. The officer did exactly the right things in this case.

Hal

Wow she sure is purty.

Mike S.

@Bench Kvetcher,
'[H]er obstinacy' inconvenienced many? No.
The arrogance of one ultra-orthodox man is what inconvenienced many.
The disingenuous nature of your remark is quite obvious.

Shlomo1

maven +1

Jeff

The only department that will be manned by Chareidim will be intelligence.

You can't make this stuff up.

Hey Heshy, you psychopath - the Chief Rabbis have issued a statement condemning forced segregation:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4163271,00.html

Of course, they probably aren't frum enough for you.

Adam Neira

Who are what is delaying the redemption of the Holy Land ?

WoolSilkCotton

++Charedi Intelligence++

'Nuff said.

Nigritude Ultramarine

> Allowing Anuran's comment is a new low for Scott [sic].

Saying that it's "a new low" is over the top, but I see your point. Why use "dickhead" when "douchebag" would have sufficed?

Rochel

Here some more info on Heshy and JPACNYC

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/10/haredi-fringe-group-claims-molestation-of-boys-has-surged-since-same-sex-marriage-bill-passed-in-ny-345.html

maven

Though, I actually doubt whether this JPACNYC is of actual Jewish descent, since no one with a true Jewish lineage would post this, with a big smiling picture of Hitler:

http://jpacnyc.blogspot.com/2011/12/are-all-six-million-in-heaven.html

maven

This guy JPACNYC is definitely the funniest guy in the world, he's like a parody of the dumb things we used to say in Bobov when we were like 9 years old:

"After we Chareidim take over we will hire goyim from all over to act as mercenaries and ground border troops at 5 bucks an hour. The only department that will be manned by Chareidim will be intelligence. As of now hundreds of chareidi kollel wives are allready manning security computers for the mossad on counter intelligence."

JPACNYC.BLOGSPOT.COM

Well tonight which is actually about now in Israels KIKAR SHABBATH linking meah shearim and Geula, there will be a massive rally against the governments attempt to take over the gravesite of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai in Meron. The rally will be loud and vocal and with G-ds help a success.

Ellen

Just saw on the news that last night haredim sent films to several synagogues admonishing haredim women who like whores where wigs instead of head rags that they are to blame for the shoah and for the drastic rise in cance in haredi children. These are the people deciding the future of Israel.

Korbendallas72

Their version of modesty is authoritarian conformity. Gender segregation is a function of their eugenics programs, that such a person should only marry within his assigned caste. It also gives the "hasidic masters" a greater degree of control over the underclass. It's hierarchical and AGAINST the Torah. It's 16th century ghetto mentality and it's going to stop.

Jeff

I think JPACNYC is a parody just like Waiting4Moshiach.

Posted by: danny | December 18, 2011 at 11:24 AM

No, JPACNYC is, tragically, very real. He's a guy named Heshy who used to roam around New York with a sign denouncing gay people for being the source of all the world's ills. His blog used to be called "Heshy's House". He actually is a batshit insane racist homophobe.

Now he's added anti-evolution screeds to his repertoire, so I guess it would be more accurate to say he's a batshit insane creationist racist homophobe.

AztecQueen2000

I give her a hearty yasher koach. (Now to board the B-110 in my knee brace and tichel and sit up front--because I'm DISABLED!)

anuran

Ah, yes. We're giving the darkies the privilege of sitting at the back of the bus. And there are plenty of White people who are uncomfortable sitting to close to a Negro.

Got it.

Yep.

The whole Rosa Parks thing is just propaganda.

Maskil

I haven't been on the busses since the new payment method (personal transit cards with picture ID) entered into use. I think that pay per one time ride is still available. But it used to be a privelage to enter the back door into the less crowded area. That was what made this so very different from the Rosa Parks busses. In isolated incidents, generally young men would get very uncomfortable and not know what to do when women didn't follow the convention but they would be shut up by the older more diplomatic - this is in Mea Shearim, where the Haredim are like that, unlike what I've heard from Bet Shemesh. But no one was ever expected to make the walk of shame from the front to the back - that would have been worse than sitting together. Payments were passed to the front and those with 10 uses could puch their own holes in their 10-use cards and have a transfer passed back to them, monthly cards were simply flashed to the drivers in through the rear view mirror.

This case was different, and if the policy has been different regarding point of entry since the new cards it may be concluded that this is a whole new story. The isolated young guy who didn't know or understand the application of "voluntary" and diplomacy (let alone the very halachot that are involved and the level of tolerance) has clearly become the norm. Those who did not understand then (or did not want to) and called for an Israeli Rosa Parks - well now we got her, and she didn't come a minute too late.

danny

I think JPACNYC is a parody just like Waiting4Moshiach. Someone decided that there was an unfilled niche for a Haredi version of Reverend Phelps and the Westboro Church.

You know... batshit insane racist an homophobic rantings which barely conceal closeted inclinations.

Jeff

To Jeff
In case you are not aware there many segregated legal busses in Israel. That makes it a criminal offense for a woman who decides to sit with the men or the other way around. The law is the law. You can not pick and choose. And eventualy Elal will provide segregated planes which have no movies to cater to the rising Hareidi population. Even you Jeff,if you were president of Elal would segregate the planes between men and women if it made business sense. If not you are out of your senses.

Posted by: JPACNYC.BLOGSPOT.COM | December 18, 2011 at 09:56 AM

Try to get this through your pea-sized frum brain - IT IS NOT THE LAW. You can say it as many times as you like; it won't change a thing. I know it's difficult for you to understand, because you think praying to an imaginary being alters reality.

Really, this level of psychosis out to be illegal. You truly are a complete waste of space.

tonda

Anuran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata


Is that why I think English girls are so hot?

Yochanan Lavie

Anuran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata

Some men have a fear of women and need to keep them in their "place."

seymour

Posted by: JPACNYC.BLOGSPOT.COM | December 18, 2011 at 09:56 AM

there is no law as SkepticalYid pointed out, do you know how to read or do a search and see it is NOT the law

anuran

Disgusted, I'm so terribly sorry your delicate sensibilities are offended by the simple, bald truth.

That's what all the theology and shouting comes down to. The person with the dick gets to tell the animal with the cunt what to do. The animal with is supposed to obey because HE has a DICK and she just has a filthy sinful cunt that exercises a nasty magical power over his DICK.

All the bleatings about "tznius" and "shekhina" and "niddah" and visible elbows and wearing red and singing and grainy photos of grandmothers and forbidding women from being in positions of authority over men and so on reduce to this the moment you take a hard look at them. It's all about how the DICK gives you power to order around anyone with a cunt.

SkepticalYid

@JPAC: you need to learn how to read a bit better:


Egged spokesman Ron Ratner condemned the incident, but said such incidents were increasing and that Egged's directives clearly prohibit the driver from "permitting or creating any separation on the bus unless it is voluntary," and instructing to call the police in such cases. Ratner advised Rosenblit to submit a complaint to Egged's ombudsman so the incident could be scrutinized more closely.

Yochanan Lavie

There is such a thing as the tyranny of the majority. A majority of Southerners were white and supported segregation. That did not make it right. Hitler and his Nuremberg Laws were incredibly popular, or else he couldn't enforce them. So the increasing chareidi population cannot dictate to everyone else how to live.

JPACNYC.BLOGSPOT.COM

To Jeff
In case you are not aware there many segregated legal busses in Israel. That makes it a criminal offense for a woman who decides to sit with the men or the other way around. The law is the law. You can not pick and choose. And eventualy Elal will provide segregated planes which have no movies to cater to the rising Hareidi population. Even you Jeff,if you were president of Elal would segregate the planes between men and women if it made business sense. If not you are out of your senses.

tonda

If the law is that the woman must sit on the back of the bus it was the womans fault who refused to adhere to the law....

Sometimes I read things and words just fail me. This is one of those times.

Irreguardless that there is no law, your attitude is stupefying.

There were laws in Germany in the 30s and 40s concerning Jews. I guess all the people that helped enforce those laws were just doing their civic responisbility.

There were laws in America concerning run-away saves. I guess the people returning the slaves were just protecting the property rights of their owners.

There were laws in Selma, AL about blacks riding in the back of the bus, so I guess you wouls have supported beating and arresting Rosa parks.


Yeshayahu - (Isaiah) - 10:1

Woe unto them that decree iniquitous decrees, and to the writers that prescribe oppression.

Jeff

If the law is that the woman must sit on the back of the bus it was the womans fault who refused to adhere to the law. The Hareidi fellow who held the door open was being a concerned citizen and making sure the police arrive. If you saw a crime in progress and you were able to hold the criminal down until the police arrived,you would be a hero. Police need the help of private citizens because they can't be everywhere.

Posted by: JPACNYC.BLOGSPOT.COM | December 18, 2011 at 09:07 AM

IT ISN'T THE LAW! It isn't even halakhah - it's nothing more than one of the many chumrot your kind invents in order to outdo one another in "holiness".

You are a raging psychotic and a complete waste of space, as well as a thoroughly ireddemable piece of excrement. Please do all of humanity a favor - kill yourself.

Yochanan Lavie

Handling his dick with kid gloves would be molestation

Posted by: lol | December 17, 2011 at 11:40 PM

Not if there is no penetration, according to some chareidi rabbis.

Chicago Sam

BTW, language aside, "troglodytes" is a perfect metaphor for the retrogressive Haredi; I think they should seriously consider riding a bike or walking, if they have any problems with women on the bus.

Almost everything they seem to do, reeks of Hilul HaShem.

JPACNYC.BLOGSPOT.COM

If the law is that the woman must sit on the back of the bus it was the womans fault who refused to adhere to the law. The Hareidi fellow who held the door open was being a concerned citizen and making sure the police arrive. If you saw a crime in progress and you were able to hold the criminal down until the police arrived,you would be a hero. Police need the help of private citizens because they can't be everywhere.

Korbendallas72

KJ - Believe it or not, it's on.

KJ

It's beginning. We're going to be rid of these troglodyte shitbags.

Posted by: Korbendallas72 | December 18, 2011 at 12:25 AM

Other than an opportunity for some gutter talk; I fail to see this "beginning" that you speak of.

Korbendallas72

It's beginning. We're going to be rid of these troglodyte shitbags.

Mendel Mendel

I agree, Rochel! Good for her! It's about time someone stood up to them!

Posted by: Hometown Postville | December 17, 2011 at 09:25 PM

No, no, you got it wrong! It's about time someone SAT DOWN to them!

Dovy

Years ago I was a NYC bus when the driver (FWIW: a black female with a chip on her shoulder) asked me to get off eventhough I had every right to be there. After a while, all these old Jewish women started screaming at me to get off. I felt like asking them how they expected folks in Europe to risk their lives for them during the Holocaust but they couldn't sacrifice a few minutes to back me up?

(The drive had complained that my transfer wass wet and therefore invalid. Meanwhile, I had just got on the bus after being caught in a downpour!)

lol

Handling his dick with kid gloves would be molestation

Bench Kvetcher

In no way way was I defending the asshole who asked her to move. He was a complete jerk from my point of view who should have been neutered on the spot. My point was that it would not have been the greatest deal for her to move knowing that he would be a complete asswipe and hold up the bus and she could have proven her point another way. I still support and commend her for what she did and hope that all Israeli residents will rise and take their country back from the insane frummak Chareidim.

Shmarya

Allowing Anuran's comment is a new low for Scott.

Congratulations are in order. I'm sure you'll continue to find new lows to which you can still enjoy sinking.

Posted by: Disgusted | December 17, 2011 at 10:16 PM

I realize the concept of free speech is foreign to you and that your community's blogs and news sites do not allow it, but I do.

And what Nuran wrote is accurate if a bit crude.

It encapsulates what's going on very well. And I think that bothers you more than anything else.

NeverFrum

Why didn't anyone on that bus have the balls to kick his haredi ass off the bus so it could continue on its way. Could have saved the half hour and not wasted the police's time. Plus he would not have notified the police of the assault because that would have been 'mesirah' a greater crime than even child molestation. It would have been a win win for the normal people.

Disgusted

Allowing Anuran's comment is a new low for Scott.

Congratulations are in order. I'm sure you'll continue to find new lows to which you can still enjoy sinking.

Steven

Sorry, I meant 'now could you have written that in a nicer way dickhead'?

Steven

Not could you have written that in a nicer way dickhead?

anuran

Rochel, I can tell you why.

It's because he (the Haredi) has a dick and is a member of a politically powerful voting bloc whom the police handle with kid gloves.

She is expected to defer because she has a pussy.

Hometown Postville

I agree, Rochel! Good for her! It's about time someone stood up to them!

Rochel

Why on earth did the policeman even ask her to move? He should have told the ultra-Orthodox male that the law was the law and he had no right to ask the woman to move.

Gefilte Fish

Bench K,

If you got on a bus and some ass who got on two stops later demanded that you move, would you meekly obey or tell him to shove it?

A more accurate depiction of the event is: An Israeli woman stood her ground and stood up for her right to sit wherever she wants to on the bus, despite the fact a lunatic, who should have been arrested, illegally prevented the public bus from moving for approximately 30 minutes.

Litvish

This is just the beginning.

Things will finally come to a head and then there will be the stark choice; do the haredim get their way or will the law, as it stands, be obeyed.

Jeff

If the leftists have their way, israel will be run by Hamas very soon, which will require women to sit in the back of the bus with the burqa. Hopefully the right wing will prevail and israel remains a strong country with freedom and equal rights for its women.

Posted by: drudge | December 17, 2011 at 07:41 PM

Great - another rocket scientist who has nothing of substance to contribute, so he takes it as an opportunity to bash the "left".

Try to process this - it's your "right wing" that capitulates to the Haredim at every turn.

maven

Bench kvetcher writes: "her obstinacy did inconvenience many people."
That is, of course, false. The idiot hassid who stood in the door of the bus is the one who inconvenienced everyone. Why he wasn't arrested or tased is beyond me.

Elisheva

Another thing--I've seen the Rosa Parks comparison being used in multiple outlets on this story, but it's not completely the same thing. Our whitewashed and PC history books in the U.S. likes to portray the Civil Rights movement as something that happened organically, when Rosa Parks simply decided one day not to get up from her seat.

In fact, this was all planned out--civil rights leaders had been planning on using Montgomery as a test case to challenge the bus segregation laws for some time before this. Other people had been arrested for refusing to give up their seats, but Rosa Parks was a respected woman of unimpeachable character, which is why the NAACP used her as the public face of the campaign.

That's the only way to stop it at this point--not by one woman refusing to give up her seat (as much as she should be commended for doing so), but by organizing and resisting en masse.

Elisheva

If the leftists have their way, israel will be run by Hamas very soon, which will require women to sit in the back of the bus with the burqa. Hopefully the right wing will prevail and israel remains a strong country with freedom and equal rights for its women.

Posted by: drudge | December 17, 2011 at 07:41 PM

At any point before you clicked the "Post" button, did the irony of that statement in that context occur to you even for one second? You can point to what the Arabs do all you like--even if they're worse, it doesn't change the fact that women's rights and equality are being violated in Israel on a daily basis.

drudge

If the leftists have their way, israel will be run by Hamas very soon, which will require women to sit in the back of the bus with the burqa. Hopefully the right wing will prevail and israel remains a strong country with freedom and equal rights for its women.

ah-pee-chorus

shmarya-
based on my reading of her account the headline should be changed. it seems that the charedi TOLD her to move while the cop ASKED her if she was willing to move and allowed her to refuse and remain.


anyway, good for her. she is an army vet and they should have all thanked her for her service in defense of their very existence. and if they think that hashem is providing the defense, why cant hashem stop a woman from sitting in the front? is god sleeping at the wheel?

Yochanan Lavie

Finally, an Israeli Rosa Parks.

Bench Kvetcher

Good for her. However her obstinacy did inconvenience many people. Hopefully they were backing her.

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