Lessons For Haredim And Modern Orthodoxy From The Penn State Child Sex Abuse Scandal

Does Penn State's long coverup of a coach's pedophilia and its board's relatively swift response when that information became public carry specific lessons for the Orthodox and haredi Jewish communities? If it does, are those the lessons hareim and Orthodox Jews are learning?

A reader, joining a handful of other readers who complained that I hadn't done posts about the ongoing Penn State child sex abuse scandal, claimed that I didn't write or post about Penn State because covering the Penn State scandal would be "problematic for this blog because it shows that the same problems that exist in the chareidi repressed world also exist in the secular world."

Covering the Penn State scandal is not "problematic" for this blog – and certainly not for that reason.

If you hunt around this blog for a bit and you will find posts about the Catholic Church's child sex abuse scandal.

Why that and not Penn State?

Because the Church and haredim worked together to block legislation that would have made it easier to get pedophiles into court, and which would have made it easier to get the priests and rabbis who covered up for child sex abuse into court, as well.

This blog covers crime, corruption and abuse in the Orthodox and haredi community.

The last time I checked, Penn State was neither Orthodox or haredi-affiliated – or even Jewish-affiliated, for that matter, and none of those named in the coverup or the alleged pedophile, Jerry Sandusky, Penn State's former number two football coach, are Jewish.

Penn State's scandal is off topic – unless there are specific lessons it teaches that are applicable to the Modern Orthodox/OU community and to the haredi community.

Are there lessons from the Penn State scandal that have special import for the Orthodox and haredi communities?

Yes, but they aren't the lessons many haredim seem to be learning.

Penn State is most interesting because when the story broke, Penn State's board couldn't keep on covering up the crimes.

Fifteen Penn State employees or former employees allegedly knew about Jerry Sandusky's pedophilia. Four have been fired so far in the few days since the scandal broke – Paterno, Penn State's president, and two others, and more firings are expected in the days to come as the board gets more information about the remaining eleven.

Now contrast that with the OU and haredi responses to similar scandals.

In the OU board's response to the Rabbi Baruch Lanner Scandal, no one was fired. After intense pressure from the Modern Orthodox masses and equally intense resistence from OU leadership, approximately four people were allowed to retire or resign, including Lanner himself. The other dozen or more OU employees and leaders who knew about Lanner's crimes against children were allowed to remain in their jobs without penalty. Many are still associated with the OU without any penalty.

In the haredi Torah Temimah-Rabbi Yehuda Kolko Scandal, Torah Temimah's board fired no one over the Kolko child sex abuse scandal. The same is true with other haredi child sex abuse scandals involving a yeshiva or camp. The haredi response across the board almost without exception has been continued coverups.

That "goyyim" or universities or public schools also produce pedophiles is not news in itself – every society and every type of institution produce pedophiles.

The only real news is how these communities, groups and institutions handle the issue.

Until Penn State's Sandusky's pedophilia became public knowledge, what it did was cover up – just like haredim.

But once it became public, Penn State's board acted quickly to fire the leaders of that coverup – even when that meant firing the university's most powerful and beloved figure, Joe Paterno, who had already resigned effective after the last day of this year's football season. Penn State fired Paterno even though only three games remained on Penn State's schedule, and at most, even with post season games, there was less than two months until Paterno's retirement was to become effective.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Without the media reporting Sandusky's crimes and Penn State's ongoing coverup, Paterno would still be coaching Penn State, its former president would still be president, and the other fired employees would probably still be working for Penn State. Sunlight helps in the haredi community and in the Modern Orthodox community, but to a lesser extent than in "goyyishe" society. This is especially true for the haredi community, which still openly harbors pedophiles and criminals of most sorts.

Why are the haredi community and to a lesser extent the Modern Orthodox community so different than Penn State in their reaction to child sex abuse scandals?

Here are several reasons:

1. Penn State has a real, independent, functioning, board. independent, functioning boards of truly public institutions seem to produce better and faster responses to child sex abuse scandals than the puppet boards (or the phantom boards) commonly found in haredi and some Modern Orthodox institutions and communities. The OU's board is weak and is largely controlled by senior OU staff and their hand picked board leaders. For the most part, haredi yeshivas don't have independent boards, and the person who heads the coverups in these yeshivas is often that faux (or phantom) board's president, who is also often the yeshiva's dean (rosh yeshiva). Haredi yeshivas are normally run like for-profit family businesses wholly owned by the rosh yeshiva and his family. The state could most likely help reduce continuing child sex abuse in the haredi community simply by strongly enforcing the laws governing non-profits and their governance – and by eliminating the church/synagogue/mosque/temple exemption for filing with the IRS that many haredi institutions and the OU use.

2. For reasons that have to do with indoctrination but that also have much to do with individual choice to cede responsibility to an all-powerful community leader like a hasidic rebbe or a haredi rosh yeshiva, the haredi masses have not had the courage or the moral fiber to stand up and say, "enough is enough, these coverups must end now." Instead, haredim go on with their lives, content to allow their corrupt rabbis free reign.

3. Haredim act in ways similar to the minority of Penn State students who rioted in support of Paterno, not the larger number of Penn State students and faculty who demonstrated for the alleged victims of Sandusky's child sex abuse. So far, in America, at least, haredim haven't rioted in support of a child molester or a rabbi who covered up for pedophiles. But they do threaten victims, attack victims' families, and attack and smear anyone who reports haredi crime and haredi pedophilia. You see that on this blog where haredi after haredi is more worried about the reputation of their community or their yeshiva or their rabbi than they are about raped haredi children and the other victims of haredi crime.

Point number three is in part why halakha says that shtika k'hoda'ah, silence equals acquiescence. If you don't speak out against a publicly known crime, you're presumed to endorse that crime.

Kal v'homer, if you speak out for the pedophile and his enablers and against the victims and the activists and reporters who expose those crimes, you are the same as those criminals – you are a part of the crime, and accessory after the fact in Western legal terms.

Sadly, many haredim have made the choice to be docile sheep, to follow their shepherds even when those shepherds are stealing from them or others, raping them or others, or covering up for and enabling criminals.

This is the real story of Penn State as it pertains to the Orthodox and haredi Jewish communities.

And it's the story many haredim and Modern Orthodox Jews do not want told.

Comments

[FM Fan]

If you clean this up a bit, you have a great article for publication.

[jancsipista.]

lets not forget the hareidim think of themselfs as infallible so nothing that applies to others applies to them, in other words they are in their own minds gods who are above everything this is in a nutshel what they are about.

[Abuse is Aubuse]

The almost messianic reverence for Joe Paterno could indeed be likened to the Haredi reverence. He had such sway at the University that no one dared question him. Much like what we see in the cases of child abuse in the church or synagogue.

[CHAIM]

great story one correction Rabbi raphael butler was fired from the ou

[Joe Field]

Posted by: jancsipista. | November 13, 2011 at 12:11 PM
It’s not that Charediem believe they are infallible, they believe their Rebbe and Rabbi’s are infallible.

[Joe Field]

Shmarya, good expose. Thanks for all the work you do.

[seymour]

another difference even the people who are still trying to excuse pertorno, you do not hear one word against the victims

as opposed to the herdie community when stuff like this is exposed most people are concerned who was the mosser who spilled the beans and condemning them even vilifying them offering no mercy no sympathy for them

and again nobody standing up for the actual abuser like in the herdie communities

[rebitzman]

3. Haredim act in ways similar to the minority of Penn State students who rioted in support of Paterno, not the larger number of Penn State students and faculty who demonstrated for the alleged victims of Sandusky's child sex abuse

Add - the University announced it will be reviewing tapes of the rioters, and those identified will be sanctioned.

Excellent analysis - and one I am not sure why the orthodox who post here (exceptions allowed) don't seem to get. That other branches of Judaism and the non-Jewish world by and large (I say "by and large", because I doubt you'll find non-Haredi throwing rocks at water crews trying to fix a break) have the same issues - the same bad behavior. The issue is in the response to the bad behavior once it comes to light (and it ALWAYS comes to light).

Orthodoxy could shut this blog down in 6 months if they somehow managed to somehow alter their response to one more in line with Penn State, where those who perpetrated the crimes, those who protected them, those who failed to turn them in, and those who reacted inappropriately have been, or who are going to be punished - severely.

[jancsipista.]

seymour- the only answer i can think of about hte hareidi denial is that they cannot face reality or truth they think they are the perfect creation on this world , the tuth is they are the opposite and that is what they cant face all their lifes they were taught that they are it the universe revolves around them the world was created for their purpose to learn torah in the meantime most of the molesters are from the torah learning freaks they cannot reconcile or come to terms that they were duped all their lifes with utter stupidity,this is the jewish peoples biggest shame

[Shmarya]

great story one correction Rabbi raphael butler was fired from the ou

Posted by: CHAIM | November 13, 2011 at 12:24 PM

Thanks, but Butler was NOT fired. He retired.

[jk]

o please, Penn State handled the situation exactly like hariedim would. Even the "independent board" you speak of didn't fire paterno until public outrage became so bad, that they couldn;t afford to keep him on board. Even now, the biggest culprit (outside sandusky) is still working for the team, on administrative leave. They still have a man working with them, who saw a rape, waited a day until he told anyone, and even then only told his boss.
Penn state is no different than a haredi institution in this instance, the difference is the public reaction.
When the secular world hears about pedophelia, they rightfully become outraged and demand something be done. In the haredi world, people become outraged and the victims and demand the abuse be covered up.

[sender]

רשע למה תכה ריעך

[Shmarya]

o please, Penn State handled the situation exactly like hariedim would. Even the "independent board" you speak of didn't fire paterno until public outrage became so bad, that they couldn;t afford to keep him on board. Even now, the biggest culprit (outside sandusky) is still working for the team, on administrative leave. They still have a man working with them, who saw a rape, waited a day until he told anyone, and even then only told his boss.
Penn state is no different than a haredi institution in this instance, the difference is the public reaction.
When the secular world hears about pedophelia, they rightfully become outraged and demand something be done. In the haredi world, people become outraged and the victims and demand the abuse be covered up.

Posted by: jk | November 13, 2011 at 01:11 PM

What happened is that the publicity meant the entire Penn State board learned about the coverup – which forced it to act within days to fire Paterno and the others.

The same publicity in haredi scandals – Torah Temimah- Yehudah Kolko, for example – is that haredi boards do NOT act, largely because they do not operate are real boards, as I noted in my post. The Kolko scandal broke in 2006. It's been more than 5 years. No one has been fired or forced out.

I'm sorry you lack the ability to see the clear differences between these two incidents and their handling.

[jancsipista.]

sender- who is the rushe?

[rebitzman]

@jk

When the secular world hears about pedophelia, they rightfully become outraged and demand something be done. In the haredi world, people become outraged at the victims and demand the abuse be covered up.

And........you don't see this as a problem, because I see it as THE problem?

[ah-pee-chorus]

good stuff shmarya.

[Flatbush Girl]

This is a great post, one which is deserving of a wide readership.

I am a somehwat lapsed Catholic. I am presently watching something similar going on in a nearby parish. A very revered, elderly priest has been accused by two young teen boys of separate incidents of inappropriate behavior. I do not know exactly what the behavior was, but it was sexual in nature. The incidents were immediately reported to the police by the parish administration and the priest was arrested immediately. Now the priest does suffer from mild dementia, to be sure. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. It is possible. But a great many parishioners have decided that the boys are lying, that this holy man of God who they have loved and looked up to all these years, who baptised their children, conducted their weddings and buried their dead could not POSSIBLY have done this. I heard one of the boy's families described as doing anything for money. The other boy's family was described as "Italian", and you know what that means...Mafia!!! Whatsmore, the children have been identified in various blogs by church-going, anonymous adults.

I am very upset that the children's reports should be dismissed automatically as lies by these people. This is the attitude all children who have suffered sexual abuse face, especially when the accused abuser is a revered priest, a coach, a teacher or a rabbi. And heaven help any child or his family who ever did anything considered "bad." Their veracity will be immediately suspect.

[Ben]

As I read on another blog Haredim don't believe in evolution that each generation man becomes more sophisticated and human they believe in yeridas hadoros, that every generation away from Sinai is further and further devolved. Thus they act like vilde chayas - wild animals.

They do not have the capacity to understand what the rest of the world gets and expects, they will not learn anything from Penn state

[Adam Neira]

Truth is pouring into the zeitgeist now. Denial, thank G-d, is yielding to a greater power.

[MM]

"The last time I checked, Penn State was neither Orthodox or haredi-affiliated – or even Jewish-affiliated, for that matter, and none of those named in the coverup or the alleged pedophile, Jerry Sandusky, Penn State's former number two football coach, are Jewish."

Um, Graham Spanier, originally from South Africa, is a Jew.

[Barry]

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Institutions will generally attempt to cover their own failings, be it out of embarrassment, or fear of financial consequences. The only way of countering this is to force these institutions to be transparent and not to allow power to be concentrated in too few hands. That is why it is important to have an independent judiciary and a free press. Where power is concentrated in too few hands, such as for example in countries controlled by military juntas, you will end up with tyranny.

Abuse of power is institutionalized in Hareidi society and is inevitable. It is too tight a community. Everyone is related to each other and/or depends on his position and employment . The Rosh Kollel and Gadol will probably have got the rosh mesivta his job because he is his son in law and so as to ensure a supply of talmidim to his yeshiva and kollel and the the rosh mesivta would have got the abusing rebbe his job because he is related to his wife. The Rosh Kollel will have got the dayanim their jobs to keep them from opening kollelim in competition to his. (You just need to look at Mir Yeshiva, which the Finkel family has controlled for a century and whose new rosh yeshiva is the son of the late rosh yeshiva).

This does not happen in secular society. The jocks at Penn State do not have such strong associations or influence with the police, the press and the judiciary.

That it is why it is so important to make sex abuse reporting mandatory so as to take all aspects of investigation and prosecution away from those who have a conflict of interest.

[seymour]

Orthodoxy could shut this blog down in 6 months if they somehow managed to somehow alter their response to one more in line with Penn State, where those who perpetrated the crimes, those who protected them, those who failed to turn them in, and those who reacted inappropriately have been, or who are going to be punished - severely.

Posted by: rebitzman | November 13, 2011 at 12:48 PM

truth very true

but not only these type of crimes

they react the same when ever a yid gets arrested for anything

the issue or issues that many bring up on this blog is not the actual crime since that unfortunately happens everywhere, it is the reaction of the leaders and community that pisses everybody off

[seymour]

The same publicity in haredi scandals – Torah Temimah- Yehudah Kolko, for example – is that haredi boards do NOT act, largely because they do not operate are real boards, as I noted in my post. The Kolko scandal broke in 2006. It's been more than 5 years. No one has been fired or forced out.

I'm sorry you lack the ability to see the clear differences between these two incidents and their handling.

Posted by: Shmarya | November 13, 2011 at 01:25 PM

of course not margolis owns the yeshiva

what is truly amazing, is that margolis suffered no condemnation or shame from the community even thought he covered for kolco for maybe 20 years.

and even thought he stayed on in the yeshiva their was no mass exodus of students I do not think there where even a handful of parents who pulled their sons from teh yeshiva

he suffered nothing, no thing from the leaders, his yeshiva did not suffer and he is stilled a honored member of the community like he did nothing wrong.

shocking

since there is a dime a dozen yeshivas one would think people would pull their kids?

[seymour]

Um, Graham Spanier, originally from South Africa, is a Jew.

Posted by: MM | November 13, 2011 at 02:09 PM

and

that does not make it a Jewish institution or an affiliate

[jancsipista.]

seymour- i came to the conclusion that there is no unity ahdus in the jewish community when it comes to pedophilia only in matters of money then their god is dominant money money is their god not human life.

[MM]

Um, Seymour, this is what Shmarya wrote:

"...none of those named in the coverup or the alleged pedophile, Jerry Sandusky, Penn State's former number two football coach, are Jewish."

However, one of those named in the cover up is a Jew despite what Shmarya wrote. Graham Spanier was fired for being part of the cover up, and he is a Jew. No, Penn State is not Jewish institution, but one of the people named in the cover up is. Now, Spanier has not been charged with a crime, at least not as yet. I think that will depend on whether or not an investigation shows that the underlings who have been charged criminally discussed the situation with him. If they did, he failed to inform the authorities, and that, I think, is a crime under Pennsylvania law. It is hard to believe that Spanier did not have some inkling of Sandusky's pattern of behavior during all those years. Spanier would not have needed the level of proof required in a criminal prosecution to forbid Sandusky the use of Penn State's facilities for himself or for the boys' camps. An inkling would have been sufficient. In any case, the Board of Trustees held Spanier responsible and so fired him.

[Asher Lipner, Ph.D.]

Thank you Shmarya for explaining this. For all those who would like this to be published more widely, does anybody have an idea how to get it somewhere that charedim might possibly read?

Jerusalem Post?

[rebitzman]

does anybody have an idea how to get it somewhere that charedim might possibly read?

Dr. Lipner: First and foremost, thank you for your work and activism in the area of sexual abuse.

To your point, while there are a lot of publications and websites/discussion boards dedicated to haredi issues, and with a predominantly Orthodox reader (ex: http://www.vosizneias.com/) getting words such as Shmarya's (or yours for that matter) on them is likely impossible. Were you to write something and post it here - you'd have a much better chance of it being seen by Haredi Jews then it would anywhere else I am aware of.

[seymour]

Posted by: rebitzman | November 13, 2011 at 04:51 PM

even if read they will attack it, make fun of it ridicule it

Just look at any article that remotely said what FM said and see the comments on frum web sites

also Vin was reprimanded for doing a pretty good job at exposing this issue and was forced to tone it down greatly and many times not report such crimes (do a search on FM to see some articles about that)

Unless it comes from the mouths of a Godol or Dass Torah it is simply ignored by the masses

[jancsipista.]

the children according to our holy rabbis are korbonos they are sacrificed for the good of all so it is a sin to report something that is good for us,and all tjose who do reprt it are punished no good deed will go unpunished as the saying goes

[ultra haredi lite]

Shmarya,
Kudos to you on a great article.

[Jeff]

Excellent.

[Bassy the Haredi Slayer]

does anybody have an idea how to get it somewhere that charedim might possibly read?

Maybe on Rabbi Eidensohn's Daat Torah. After he (and FM and UOJ) came down on Tropper and put him out of circulation he can write whatever he wants to.

[Jewish Prince]

beautiful work.

[Flatbusher]

Very well written.

The handwriting is on the wall. People on the street are fed up with the Hasidic Dynastic Rebbes, the Litvish equivalents, for their immoral coverups of the worst crime that can be done to a young child, short of murder.

When it blows up it will not be pretty. But you have to be blind not to see it coming. Just Like Qadaffi et al.

[who knows]

Shmarya is right, most yeshivos became (and may have always been)for profit family businesses.

This is why we can not expect them to act transparently.

[jk]

What happened is that the publicity meant the entire Penn State board learned about the coverup – which forced it to act within days to fire Paterno and the others.

The same publicity in haredi scandals – Torah Temimah- Yehudah Kolko, for example – is that haredi boards do NOT act, largely because they do not operate are real boards, as I noted in my post. The Kolko scandal broke in 2006. It's been more than 5 years. No one has been fired or forced out.

I'm sorry you lack the ability to see the clear differences between these two incidents and their handling.

I think you are misinterpeting my post. My point is just that with or without an "independent board", if the public becomes outraged, change happens. The Penn State board is far from independent and until 2 weeks ago, Joe Paterno owned them all. However, because public outrage was so strong, they were forced to act.
If the Haredi became as outraged at abuse as normal society, changes would come in places torah temimah as well. The issue isnt as much the boards, all of which are corrupt, but the public. Its sad and pathetic that the charedi public doesnt demand more from their boards.
I think you are a little naive about college football and how much power it really has at institutions like penn state. If you really think their board is anymore independent than one at a haredi yeshiva, i guess we just disagree.

[Shmarya]

I think you are misinterpeting my post. My point is just that with or without an "independent board", if the public becomes outraged, change happens. The Penn State board is far from independent and until 2 weeks ago, Joe Paterno owned them all. However, because public outrage was so strong, they were forced to act.

Penn State's board is very independent. Haredi yeshivas don't usually have real boards, as I noted in my post, and whatever boards they do have are controlled by the Rosh Yeshiva, who "owns" what is supposed to be a public charity.

And the outrage against child sex abuse at Penn State came from media reports.

The same media reports about Torah Temimah brought outrage – against the victims of child sex abuse and the media that reported their stories.

And that's the point.

[grateful in Oz]

I ask this blog's many readers - those who comment and those who don't - please donate to this blog.

If Failed Messiah were unable to continue, there isn't any other site that could pick up the slack.

I have no connection to Shmarya Rosenberg, I have never met him - I don't even live in the same hemisphere. I'm just very, very grateful that he has devoted himself to exposing the rot that could ruin our religion and our country.

Helping Failed Messiah is a small way to fighting this rot.

[esty]

People in authority who ignore abuse need stringing up. They are no better than the abuser.

My father and his sister are Jewish. My father married out but his sister married a "respected business man" from a well established family in Gateshead.

Needless to say the differences between my siblings and I and that of my aunts children are huge. Nevertheless I am very close to my cousins. The oldest daughter and I being born only a few minutes apart.

In my teens I was gang raped and beaten within a hairs breath of my live. The care and support I received was incredible. I was never made to feel I was to blame. I could not of wished for better care. In time the rapists were found guilty and incarcerated.

My family - my aunt included did everything possible for my complete recovery. Now, my past is all but a distant memory that has no effects whosoever over my life. I have a career, home and everything I could possibly wish for. Life could not be better.

My cousin who has also been abused but by her father, lives on antidepressants, sleeping tablets pills for anxiety and has attempted suicide numerous times.

She cannot function and is unable to hold day a job let alone a career.

She has an Obsession for cleanliness her room is like a new pin and as usually she will shower 12 times a day.

Over the years she has been anorexic and bulimic. Pulled her own eye lashes and brows out.

And now at the grand age of 50 she is still a virgin with no interest in men and tormented by her own siblings to get a real life.

Truth is, the abuse she suffered from her father has fucked her mind.

It began around the age of 7 and continued until she was 17 when she asked if I ever wanted to marry and if I was scared of the prospect of being intimate.

I in time told my parents who called the police but their hands were tied because my cousin was to afraid to tell them as she had been threatened by of all people her mother - the same nice, gentle aunt who visited me 2 twice a day for 4 months whilst I was in hospital..

And, to add fuel to the scandal my cousin left her parents sick abusive home, the nice kosher home and instead prefers to live with my parents - my father is now an atheist and my mother is a christian.

They enjoy christmas and easter, shes not kept kosher or shabbos for years.

But, she feels supported and accepted and knows there is no pressure on her to comply. She can be herself and concentrate on getting well.

I am a convert and I do keep Kosher and Shabbos however I am thankful, very thankful I was raised as goyim. I know if my family had treated me the same as my cousins did her I would not be where I am today

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

Shmarya, you are factually mistaken in stating that Penn had an indelendent, functioning board for the simple reason that while Paterno 'reported' to the President and the Board, he was the one who seated them. You are underestimating Paterno's power and influence at Penn. If parallels are to be drawn, Paterno is like the rebba who covered this up - for a solid 20 years. Paterno, like that kike piece of shit Margo, has blood on his hands.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

Damn ipad. Sorry for the typo. Independent they were not. They bowed to Paterno like he was jesus incarnated.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

Esty at 1257, here's one frum guy with great respect for you, we're all one family in the end so stay strong and know you've got love and support out there. Cheers!

[Shmarya]

Shmarya, you are factually mistaken in stating that Penn had an indelendent, functioning board for the simple reason that while Paterno 'reported' to the President and the Board, he was the one who seated them. You are underestimating Paterno's power and influence at Penn. If parallels are to be drawn, Paterno is like the rebba who covered this up - for a solid 20 years. Paterno, like that kike piece of shit Margo, has blood on his hands.

Posted by: Bfeirush in Fartscroll | November 14, 2011 at 01:52 AM

That really isn't true.

At this point, there is no evidence the board knew what Sandusky had done or anything about the coverup until the media broke the story.

Until that point, the board had no reason to fire or reprimand Paterno.

But as soon as the did have a reason, they acted in a relatively short time.

In contrast, no haredi organization's board has ever acted at all. So when Kolko's abuse and Margulies coverup was exposed in 2006, nothing was done.

To say that a coach known for making his players study, go to class and get good grades should have been reprimanded by Penn's board for crimes committed by a subordinate that they were not aware of is pretty nutty.

The bottom line here is that the haredi world is far worse than Penn State in most areas related to child sex abuse.

[esty]

Bfeirush in Fartscroll, Thank you for that.

Being a mere convert is not easy. We are either accused of converting to marry - which was not the case. Or, we are ignored and some even have muttered behind my back, SHES a convert as if I have the plague. whilst others keep a respectable distance away from us just in case we should lead them astray..

I have learnt my lesson. No way will I ever marry a FFB. At one time I thought that would be the ultimate but not now.

If I ever do marry it would have to be another convert or a BT. Somebody who knows how the other half live and is not self absorbed in their own little world, secluded away from reality.

So, if you know of any eligible guys who either owns a perfumery or chocolate factory. Likes dogs - I have 3 and is NOT Lubavitch let me know ;)

[i hate Syrian cigars]

Kooloytoyra.blogspot is read by 2 or 3 chareidim (and that's not even including the blogger) on a fairly regular basis. It'll post just about anything except negative comments about Led Zeppelin.

[JaneinMelbourne]

Posted by: grateful in Oz | November 14, 2011 at 12:39 AM

grateful in Oz, I am in Melbourne, where are you, would you like to be in touch??. I work predominately with Jews who have been abused.

[grateful in Oz]

@JaneinMelbourne.

Sure. Provide me with an email address and I'll get in contact with you ASAP. When I do get in contact, I'd ask you to provide your real name and a contact number.

Unfortunately, there are some real psychos around and I'd prefer not to go on blind trust.

FWIW, I have been watching the abuse horrors from the sidelines and have not been affected in any way personally.

I'm just really horrified by what I've read and been told and am very grateful to Shmarya for his coverage of the issue.

I'll make myself available to help in any way I can, though I'm not sure exactly what it is I could do.

[chaim yankel]

Shmarya
this post is out of the park. A towering homerun over dead center field but as other commenters have suggested,this needs more publicity. This should be the beginning of a renewal of the discussion in the Chareidi community as its being discussed in evrey community in Amierica. Strike while the iron is hot. the Chareidi community like evreybody else can be shamed into acting. What a desecration of g-ds name (chillul hashem) that the "goyim" respond appropriately to protect their children and the Chareidi serve up their kids on the altar of Molech.Margolis and Kolko are like nazi war criminals who have evaded justice. You can be the Simon Weisenthal whose relentless pursuit brought these criminals to justice. Those in the know understand that the Chareidi community is in enormous emotional pain because they are losing their youth at an alarming rate. The healing can only happen if they go to the source. We all know what it is.

[MM]

"To say that a coach known for making his players study, go to class and get good grades should have been reprimanded by Penn's board for crimes committed by a subordinate that they were not aware of is pretty nutty."

Please, Shmarya, keep Penn out of this. The institution involved in this scandal is Penn STATE, the cow college in Happy Valley (Centre County PA). Penn is the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, member of the Ivy League and one of the world's foremost universities. Penn does have a football team that plays Princeton, Harvard, Yale, etc., but the football team certainly does not dominate the campus. The two universities could not be more different.

[Reb Chaim]

The lead story in the Jewish Star this week concerned various addresses by leading politicians to Aguda at their recent meeting. Everyone from Senator Charles Schumer on down spoke about security, foreign policy and just about every other subject one can think of. Of course, none of these politicians had the guts to mention Aguda's policy of not reporting sexual abuse complaints to the civil authorities, but rather handling them through their rabbonim. Until this policy fundamentally changes, Aguda will remain squarely rooted in the last century.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

Shmarya, in response, I've read and discussed this at length and know for a fact that while it may not be reported yet, the news agencies are fully aware that both Paterno and the many board members throughout the years were fully aware of what was going on. Anyone familiar with college sports knows, coaches know everything that's going on. Everything. Underlined and in bold. They knew. This cover up is 20 years old.

Eerily, some students are reporting now that they knew Sandusky was trouble much the same way Kolko had a reputation for being a hairless youth's man.

I agree that there was no reason to act against Paterno until this became known but I can assure you Paterno is THE MAN there, he controls the strings. He could have stopped this.

Paterno would never have been reprimanded - he controlled the board - up until the end when the entire situation spun out of control. These school reports, internal memos, you think these were not known to the entire administration? There are school security reports dating back to 94. They used terms in those reports like "horsing around," which was a euphemism for anal rape, oral sex and digits in tuchus syndrome.

I don't know who you are referring to in the Chareidi world, whether you mean chassidim, or litvishe yeshivas, but I disagree - Penn State was JUST AS BAD in covering this up. The only unknown here is for exactly how long did Paterno know Sandusky was a pederast. My research indicates this is perhaps a 20 year problem, and not less than 17.

Only when this became a media disaster did they move quickly. 17 years is not quick. 17 years is far too long. There is no pride in the way Penn State has handled this, and despite any effort to contrast Penn States actions with those in the Chareidi world, Penn only acted when their hand was forced. They shed plenty of blood before that.

[JaneinMelbourne]

grateful in oz, if you click on my name below it will take you to my website. You will find my contact details there.

[MM]

"Penn only acted when their hand was forced. They shed plenty of blood before that."

Once again, Bfeirush, PENN has nothing to do with this scandal. It's all on Penn STATE. Penn and Penn State are two entirely separate institutions. They have nothing to do with one another and are as different as chalk and cheese. Please do not besmirch Penn's good name by associating it in anyway with this disgusting mess.

[Shmarya]

…There is no pride in the way Penn State has handled this, and despite any effort to contrast Penn States actions with those in the Chareidi world, Penn only acted when their hand was forced. They shed plenty of blood before that.

Posted by: Bfeirush in Fartscroll | November 14, 2011 at 12:47 PM

Please.

Again, you confuse the actions of Penn State's ADMINISTRATION, which were horrible, and the actions of its governing board, which were LAUDABLE.

Why you do this is beyond me because at this time there is NO evidence that the governing board knew anything about Sandusky's crimes or the coverup.

[grateful in Oz]

@Jane

Thanks. I had a look at your site and I'm wondering what assistance you think I could give you.

[JaneinMelbourne]

grateful in oz, lets email off here. I don't know you or your address so flick me an email first.

[grateful in Oz]

@Jane.

I've emailed you.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

MM, get a life, obviously Penn is just shorthand for Penn State.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

Your 2:32, Shmarya, splits hairs. When Yeshiva of Spring Valley called the police and fired a rebbe within hours of finding out about an incident that happened the same day - the charge that led to the arrest was later dismissed - they acted swiftly and laudably.

Even if Penn State's governing board acted swiftly, it was 20 years too late for every victim. The Rape and Pillaging of our Youth by Sandusky is a lesson in coverups and abuses of power and in no way is a lesson to chareidim.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

Just to clarify, my perception is that in the chassidic world a rebbe could walk in on a rebbe while he's balls deep in a seven year old and still get away with it.

But that will not happen in 90% of the litvishe aka Mir, Torah VDaas, and 100% of the modern ortho yeshivos, aka TABC, MTA. So let's plow forward (no pun intended) but let's not ignore progress either. Awareness is high and many rabbeim I speak to have taken sensitivity classes mandatory according to their terms of employment.

[Shmarya]

Your 2:32, Shmarya, splits hairs. When Yeshiva of Spring Valley called the police and fired a rebbe within hours of finding out about an incident that happened the same day - the charge that led to the arrest was later dismissed - they acted swiftly and laudably.

Even if Penn State's governing board acted swiftly, it was 20 years too late for every victim. The Rape and Pillaging of our Youth by Sandusky is a lesson in coverups and abuses of power and in no way is a lesson to chareidim.

Posted by: Bfeirush in Fartscroll | November 14, 2011 at 08:14 PM

First of all, I was involved in that case. YSV told me it was dealing with the situation and asked me to wait a couple days before I posted anything.

Past that, you're choosing one minority incident and ignoring dozens of majority incidents where the pedophile was not fired, was not reported to police and where victims and victims' families were harassed and even threatened.

As soon as Penn State's governing board was told about Sandusky and Paterno, heads rolled.

Their reaction was far superior to any haredi or MO reaction.

But like most of what you write, truth isn't your issue.

You hate who you hate and support who you support and let the facts be damned.

[anti-agenda arguments]

I don't claim to know the politics of the penn state board;though, likely paterno, who was king of college football for decades likely had tremendous power, however, the difference is penn st relies on the public for its growth, and the backlash against Paterno made it necessary for him to go. Wheras, the much smaller scandal, and yeshiva's have little to do with the media anyways, didn't force the board to act.

[MM]

"MM, get a life, obviously Penn is just shorthand for Penn State."

No, it isn't. Penn is the University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League university in Philadelphia. Penn STATE is the cow college in Happy Valley, with the big time football program and the protected pedophile.

See for yourself:
Penn: University of Pennsylvania
www.upenn.edu/

If you browse the website you will see that Penn is an integral part of the University of Pennsylvania's institutional identification (logo). It is not "obviously...just shorthand for Penn State." To associate this horrid scandal with Penn is erroneously besmirching the reputation of one of the most outstanding institutions of higher learning in the United States and indeed the world.

Bfeirush, if you think that Penn is just a nickname for Penn State, you are sadly mistaken.

[Dan O.]

A point everybody seems to be missing in all of these cases of rampant covered-up child sex abuse is the common lack of able women in positions of power. We should be learning something about the nature of mens-only close-knit social groups - they are not to be trusted, and they are unsafe for children.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

MM are you retarded? When I say Penn it is a quick way of me and anyone else here typing Penn State. Take whatever website you referenced and jam it where Sandusky can feel it but not see it. And if you don't like it, go shower with the guy.