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November 11, 2011

Hasidic Bus Company Uses Yiddish To Illegally Order Passengers to Segregate By Gender

B110 Williamsburg-Borough Park BusPrivate Transportation Corporation's B110 schedule and guidelines seems benign in English. But its Yiddish version orders men and women to segregate by gender and cites a ruling by haredi rabbis that forbids the sexes from mixing on the B110 – a clear violation of federal and state law.

B110 Williamsburg-Borough Park Bus

Hasidic Bus Company Lies To City, Intentionally Violates State And Federal Law
Shmarya Rosenberg • FailedMessiah.com

Women sit in the rear.

That's what the hasidic owners of the B110 bus line franchise tell passengers.

The B110 is a privately operated public bus line. The contract to operate it was put up for bid by the city years ago and was awarded to a hasidic-owned bus company, Private Transportation Corporation.

The B110 runs between the Brooklyn neighborhoods of Borough Park and Williamsburg, two hasidic population centers. It uses public bus stops on city streets and is a part of the city's public transportation system and it is required to follow New York City, New York State and Federal law – including laws that prohibit discrimination by race, national origin, sexual orientation and gender.

This is what the Private Transportation Corporation's B110 bus schedule and guidelines says about gender segregation as translated from the Yiddish by C.O., the reader who sent them to me:

According to the psak [religious ruling] of the rabbis, men should concentrate themselves in the front seats in the first half of the bus, and women in the second half. Under no circumstances will men be allowed to stand in the second half of the bus, among the women, nor will women be allowed among the men in the first half of the bus.
 
When the front part of the bus is crowded with standing men, women are not allowed to board the bus from the front entrance in an attempt to push through between the men [to get to the back of the bus]. If possible, women will be allowed to enter the bus through the back door, after they paid first in front to the driver.

But in the English section of the guidelines, the only mention gender is this:

"When boarding a crowded bus with standing room only, women should be allowed to board first."

In other words, PTC tells English speakers one thing and Yiddish speakers another, and what it tells Yiddish speakers is a clear violation of US and New York State law.

PTC recently told the city in writing that it did not now and never had mandated gender segregation on the B110:

B110 letter to NYC 10-25-11 excerpt

Quite obviously, PTC was lying.

So, how should the city respond to this lie and to PTC's intentional violation of US and New York State law and city policy, and its clear attempt to hide that violation by ordering Yiddish speakers to viololate the law while making it appear to English speakers that any gender segregation is voluntary?

PTC clearly violated its contract with the city, which should make that contract null and void.

The city should put the B110 contract up for bid again, barring PTC or any of its principals from bidding on or from operating the new B110.

Here is the B110 schedule and guidlines as they were sent to me by a reader, followed by a closeup of the guidelines. The area within the top red box contains the Yiddish text translated above. The area in the bottom red box  in the closeup contains the only English language text discussing gender:

B110 Bus Schedule Fall 2011 annotated

B110 bus schedule fall 2011 guidelines annotated

Here is the entire letter from PTC to the city in response to the city's questions to PTC about illegal gender segregation on the B110 as reported in the media:

B110 letter to NYC 10-25-11

Comments

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Very clever. The old "use a strange tongue to pull the wool over their eyes" technique. A story comes to mind. A friend of mine who is fluent in Mandarin travelled to China for a holiday. He doesn't look that clever, don't tell him I said that, and whilst at a small restaurant one day with his girlfriend they ordered something. The waiter came back and served the meal, but said something shocking whilst smiling innocently at them. Like a "F*** you dumb westerners" aside. My friend being the cool, calm and collected type, just smiled back accepted the meal, and sipped his tea. He then paid for the meal and just as they were leaving he tapped the waiter on the shoulder gave him a small tip and said in perfect Mandarin "We're actually both pretty smart."

Beware of code, jargon and secret languages behind your back. When G-d spoke to the prophets he spoke in crystal clear language. If an instruction is given it should be carried out. No more segregated buses. That’s it. Finito.

so, what does that mean? only people who speak yiddish need be segregated?

so, what does that mean? only people who speak yiddish need be segregated?

Posted by: flailed | November 11, 2011 at 02:15 AM

The vast majority of riders are hasidic and speak Yiddish.

Those who aren't will get the message from those who are.

Don't worry. The "stupid goyim" will never work it out.

Back in the day when demonstrating at embassies a truck full of eggs would pull up and they would announce over the loudspeaker, "Don't trow eggs, varf ayer".

Time to shut it down. How dishonest can you get? These guys write the book.

So all that one has to do is say that they don't speak Yiddish and the english regulations apply.

I guess this all boils down to if these are just religious suggestions for people who want to adhere to the religious standards or are these being applied to people who don't follow these religious restrictions.

This is akin to someone telling someone that a particular food is non-kosher. A follower of kashrus would thank that person someone who does not kosher could say - mind your own business what I eat. This could be a reason for the differing instructions in english and yiddish.

The orthodox jewish laws and customs are different that the American ones and as long as one does not impose or break them a happy medium can be found.

Although the Schedule refers to 'Bus Guidelines' the wording above the indicated paragraph refers to 'Rules'. Rules are mandatory whilst guidelines are not.

It is simply not possible to run a bus from Williamsburg to Monsey without enforced sex segregation because that is what the ghetto leaders insist on. Clearly we can't have such buses running on our streets.

The B110 bus franchise should be withdrawn rather than put out for tender. It was set up to directly connect ghettoes. Such routes should never be approved

they are learning from the Palestinians who say one thing in English and another thing in Arabic

could it be that the ultra Orthodox are really Palestinians sent under cover to destabilize Judaism and of course Israel

once Israel becomes weak because of the so called herdeim

they will reveal themselves as Palestinians and take over the country

Barry,

Leave Monsey out of this. You have the wrong bus line. This is one is Boro-Park Williamsburg.

Monsey Trails has a voluntary arrangement with the men on one side and the women on the other. They run a quality operation and their policies should be emulated. I had the misfortune of traveling on NJ Transit this week and those guys are jerks compared to the Monsey drivers.

why a posak instead of mentioning who made teh pasak

lets see who is really behind this, let him be brave enough to the identified

maybe someone who travels on that bus can ask who made the pasak, since if we know than maybe those who do not follow that rebbie need not follow that ruling since he is not their posak

Monsey Trails has a voluntary arrangement with the men on one side and the women on the other.

I like the two sided arrangement. Although to many it makes no difference front vs back of the bus there are some that have prefrences and here in America one may do what they want. As to right side of the isle vs the left unless there is something really seriously wrong with you or if the trip in question has a much more scenic view on one side of the bus vs the other most people wouldn't care. Hence no outcry.

I could excuse this as religious zeal and really do not want to break any laws or secular contract that they signed

however, i can only say that if they would be honest and respect secular law and contracts in all other endeavors, which of course they do not

they have again proven that ethics and secular laws simply do not apply to them and contracts signed in a secular setting is not binding and just a joke for them

am truly honest person or group (not them of course, interesting that they claim they are the apex of morality and ethics and so on) would not bid on this contract or give up there franchise since they cannot comply with the rules that are stipulated in the contract.

I did say honest,

Monseyite, please let me have a heaping helping of whatever you're smoking. Putting "Monsey Trails" and "Quality Operation" in the same paragraph is beyond laughable. And the Monsey-Williamsburg and Monsey-BP buses have thick, dusty, smelly mechitzos hung down the middle of the bus, the better to grope strangers randomly.

Shmarya, you have a split infinitive in your headline.

"If possible, women will be allowed to enter the bus through the back door, after they paid first in front to the driver."


how much room do the men get and how little room do the woman get?

do I read this correctly that if it is semi full they are telling the woman who most likely are with children to wait for the next bus, and the fat slops just walk on and take a seat


this is their version of equality and halacha

Has any one recently simply boarded the buss and tried to sit on the "wrong side" or "end". What happeened.

Maybe that would be a fun excursion on a trip to NYC!

Has any one recently simply boarded the buss and tried to sit on the "wrong side" or "end". What happeened.

Maybe that would be a fun excursion on a trip to NYC!

Posted by: Norm | November 11, 2011 at 07:45 AM

have you been in cave

it made headlines news a few weeks ago

Little verbiage loophole is the sign saying that according to the rabbis the seating must be separate. The bus co is not the one mandating it.

Monseyite, if a bus segregated its passengers requiring whites to sit to the left and blacks to the right on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and reversed that seating arrangements on on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays, would Rosa Parks have been wrong to object?

Providing separate facilities even if they are equal is unconstitutional.

Monseyite which of the following two statements do you agree with?

a) "It is an underlying fallacy to assume that the enforced separation of the two sexes stamps women with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, it is not by reason of anything found in the act of separation, but solely because women choose to put that construction upon it."

or

b) If evils will result from the commingling of the two sexes upon public highways established for the benefit of all, they will be infinitely less than those that will surely come from regulating the enjoyment of civil rights upon the basis of sex. We boast of the freedom enjoyed by our people above all other peoples. But it is difficult to reconcile that boast with a any requirement which, practically, puts the brand of servitude and degradation upon a large class of our fellow-citizens, our equals before the law. The thin disguise of 'equal' accommodations for passengers in coaches will not mislead any one, nor atone for the wrong this day done."

The schedule states that ' We found it necessary to implement the following rules' and 'machen mir die hagdaros'

The schedule makes it clear that it is the bus company 'on the instructions of Rabbis' that is making these rules.

Maybe that would be a fun excursion on a trip to NYC!

Posted by: Norm | November 11, 2011 at 07:45 AM

Excellent idea! Lets start a collection to send Shmarya to New York (Jewland) and sit back and watch the fun!

What could be more enjoyable than a ride on the B110 squeezing yourself amoung the "vaber" (wives) and "khaping" a squeeze or the joys of sitting behind the curtain with the ladies on the Monsey-Manhattan run. Almost as much fun as attending the SMR trial!

I want to arm a group of women with used menstrual pads then have them force their way through the men's section of the bus; smearing the black hatted bastards faces as they go.

I want to arm a group of women with used menstrual pads then have them force their way through the men's section of the bus; smearing the black hatted bastards faces as they go.

Posted by: Alter Kocker | November 11, 2011 at 08:57 AM

You must not be a real jew. A real jew uses a soiled diaper!

I'm all for letting these Rumanian/Ukranian peasant savages do anything they want, so long as they don't take city, county, state, or federal money to do it. Why indeed does the government give this filth money to run a private bus line?

I'm all for letting these Rumanian/Ukranian peasant savages do anything they want, so long as they don't take city, county, state, or federal money to do it. Why indeed does the government give this filth money to run a private bus line?

Posted by: R. Wisler | November 11, 2011 at 10:24 AM

in this case no money was given it is the bus company that gave money to run this franchise

Why indeed does the government give this filth money to run a private bus line?

At the risk of sounding like I am defending the segregation, it appears that they don't use government money. Talking to amity there (no way to verify this) they are telling me the Haredim pay the city for a license to run the bus - because they are required to do so - and because they are operating under a city license (one they HAVE to get), they are required to run the bus as though it was a government entity.

I have been advocating that they run their own bus line and not operate under a government franchise agreement if segregated seating is that necessary to thier religious practice, but IF (and I stress "if", because I have not been able to verify this to be true) what I am being told is true - they are in the ultimate Catch 22.

Sigh.......iPad autocorrect strikes again.

Talking to a FAMILY member........

Yidden need to travel, so why not with tznius? If you seculars want to rub up against shiksas, ride the L subway and no one will complain.

Next time my wife and I are in NYC maybe we should take these lines and have her sit in the wrong section. Middle aged woman wearing a hair covering. Should be a push-over when they start bullying...

Middle aged self defense instructor with twenty years of Pencak Silat.

This is a real interesting.
The men who ride the bus don't care.
The women who ride it don't care.
The city doesn't care as long as no laws are broken and no law is violated here.
Perhaps from now on there wont be any official guidelines from the bus company becuase certain folks with empty time on their hands hates frum people as much hate a person can spew and now is taunting a bus company.
Anyone can sit anywhere they wish on the bus.
Its self segregated and the people riding the bus want it this way.In fact the women want it the same as the men.

Is the bus company lying to the city? maybe.
Is a lie like this the end of the world?
Is anyone being hurt becuase of this lie?
is anyone being defrauded by this lie?
Hurting one person verbally is far more worse then a lie like this.
Lurking with a telescope running around finding silly things that frum people live by and posting it to poke fun at is far more worse then a lie like this.
Spewing hate against others on daily basis is far more worse then a lie like this.

Yidden need to travel, so why not with tznius? If you seculars want to rub up against shiksas, ride the L subway and no one will complain.

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | November 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM

sadly it seems this is the problem

that Hasidim cannot walk in the public sphere and see a woman and not rub against them

The city doesn't care as long as no laws are broken and no law is violated here.

Deremes,

This is where your reading comprehension issues come into play.

Several state and federal laws ARE being violated.

Do try to process that.

Children are allowed on the bus and get a discount. Is this all the time or only when there is not enough women to rub against?

What I find fascinating is the clause in the rabbinical order that demands women enter and exit the bus by the back door should there be men standing in the mens' section. What do they think will happen if they walk through the mens' section? Mixed dancing?

My reading comprehension is quite well.
And the city doesn't care mush about it becuase no one is being discriminated here.
So from now on the bus company will not hand out guidelines but the separate seating wont change.

The vast majority of riders are hasidic and speak Yiddish.

Therefore this should not be a problem for the minority who don't, who, if they board the bus, will not be discriminated against, and who will sit wherever they please.

I still can't figure out why the fuck you care.

My reading comprehension is quite well.
And the city doesn't care mush about it becuase no one is being discriminated here.
So from now on the bus company will not hand out guidelines but the separate seating wont change.

Posted by: Deremes | November 11, 2011 at 12:07 PM

The LAW cares, and CITIZENS care.

And I think you and your friends will learn that in the not too distant future.

I still can't figure out why the fuck you care.

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | November 11, 2011 at 12:20 PM

That's because to you, the law is situational. It applies when you want it to and doesn't apply when you don't.

Look at it this way.

If the B110 ran between two all white all non-Jewish neighborhoods, and the B110 guidelines stated that all Blacks, non-whites and Jews had to sit in the back of the bus, and if the overwhelming majority of passengers were white and were fine with that, would you say you still can't figure out why I care or why enforcing the law that forbids discrimination like this is important?

If you want the law to protect you you also have to work to see that it protects every law abiding citizen equally.

Is that really too difficult for you to understand?

Don't worry. The "stupid goyim" will never work it out.

Posted by: David | November 11, 2011 at 04:44 AM

But in the English section of the guidelines, the only mention gender is this:

"When boarding a crowded bus with standing room only, women should be allowed to board first."


if entering from the front, then this part is perfectly clear in english. women will be pushed to the back, with men standing in the front.

Is that really too difficult for you to understand?

Posted by: Shmarya | November 11, 2011 at 01:13 PM

give up. the frumim will never work it out.

Uh Deremes and Waiting for Moshiach, separate seating hurts every one, not just women.

Wat happens when a father is traveling with his fifteen year old daughter? At the very least, most fathers I know would want their daughter sitting close to them so they could talk during the trip and also for her safety.

And what of a mother with an eleven or twelve year old boy. I could see how uncomfortable this could make the child because he would want to sit with the men and that means without his mother's companionship and supervision.

Then we have the employees who work in the same office (especially when they are on longer commutes). This law does not let them talk to one another about work.

Also, I remember hearing that one of the reasons college dormitories are co-ed, is that when young men live among women, they behave better. Well on a bus, shouldn't the presence of women encourage the male passengers to behave more decorously? Isn't decorous behavior tznius?

you are petty little creature. What's wrong Shmarya, SMR wasn't good enough to you when he took you into his home. You had to destroy him because of your chicken business in MN. I got all the dirt on you, you scum and I will soon air it all out in my own Blog. Lets hate all frum people because you couldnt get your chickens. BOO FREAKIN HOO you damn cry baby

What do they think will happen if they walk through the mens' section? Mixed dancing?

Posted by: SkepticalYid | November 11, 2011 at 12:04 PM

Yes. And we know where that leads.

you are petty little creature. What's wrong Shmarya, SMR wasn't good enough to you when he took you into his home. You had to destroy him because of your chicken business in MN. I got all the dirt on you, you scum and I will soon air it all out in my own Blog. Lets hate all frum people because you couldnt get your chickens. BOO FREAKIN HOO you damn cry baby

Posted by: different dave | November 11, 2011 at 01:56 PM

So you continue to lie.

1. Rubashkin never took me into his house.

2. I never had a "chicken business" in Minnesota.

Past that, what you are doing is attacking the messenger because the message – the crime and corruption of your community – can't be refuted.

So you smear and lie and cheat instead.

In doing that you show all of us what your community really is – amoral.

Now remember this: Whatever you post that is libelous opens you up to legal action.

That means that if you post something false about me to smear me you become legally liable.

So make sure that what you post is true and that you follow all the relevant laws.

If you do that, great. It's your right to do it.

But if you lie or commit related actions to smear me, you'll pay a very steep price.

@different dave

Do you have ANY idea how often this same old, molding and incorrect accusation/lie has been thrown at Shmarya on this board OR who really appears to be the "cry baby"?

You guys really need some new material - it has gone well past funny and way into boring.

Anyone can sit anywhere they wish on the bus.
Its self segregated and the people riding the bus want it this way.In fact the women want it the same as the men.

Is the bus company lying to the city? maybe.
Is a lie like this the end of the world?
Is anyone being hurt becuase of this lie?.

Posted by: Deremes | November 11, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Fascism creeps up on you if you don't stop it early. They move incrementally so as not to disturb the sheep. It's also false that anyone can sit anywhere because some headstrong little pisher will swing his dick around because he can. The entre Hasidic movement is based in hierarchy so why not oppress the rights of whatever underclass you perceive beneath you?

That they issued a statement in Yiddish is like the mullahs who issue one stament in Arabic and one in English, for the lowlifes who speak that tongue. Every policy of theirs is rooted in expressing one's status in one way or the other.

shmarya never lies and slanders entire groups of people, he never does ,sarcasm

I don't lie.

Instead, I report the facts and the truth.

And that's what you can't stand.

lets forget the legality of the matter.

why does it bother you if they want it?

lets forget the legality of the matter.

why does it bother you if they want it?

Posted by: chaim | November 11, 2011 at 02:54 PM

Because it is illegal and because it opens the door to discrimination by others and against others.

If the B110 ran between two all white all non-Jewish neighborhoods, and the B110 guidelines stated that all Blacks, non-whites and Jews had to sit in the back of the bus, and if the overwhelming majority of passengers were white and were fine with that, would you say you still can't figure out why I care or why enforcing the law that forbids discrimination like this is important?

If you want the law to protect you you also have to work to see that it protects every law abiding citizen equally.

Is that really too difficult for you to understand?

Another reason this rankles:

1. Bike lane connecting non-Satmar neighborhoods together shut down due to Satmar pressure, because riders offended their sensibilities.

So it seems to me,

2. Public bus connecting Satmar neighborhoods, through non-Satmar neighborhoods, should be shut down for offending non-Orthodox sensibilities.

It just so happens that those sensibilities relate to civil rights, as opposed to whacko notions of modesty.

So, yeah, this pisses me off. It makes me want to block in a B110 bus when it's making a pickup. Of course, I'll follow the law and not do it. I can't say the same thing for other people.

lets forget the legality of the matter.

why does it bother you if they want it?
----------------------

Wow, Chaim. Would you ask that about Hitler? Would it be okay to say "why should it have bothered Jews to be segregated and have to wear yellow starts if that's what Germans wanted"? Think about it.

and if the women on the bus want to sit seperately?

does the "back" of bus bother you?

and if the women on the bus want to sit seperately? (sic)

Then they should.

But what if they don't?

Let me give you people who don't understand a simple example:

If an employer is paying employees $3/hour in New York and the employees are supposedly happy for the work why intervene and go after the employer ?

Because he is in violation of the law, dummies!

Wish I was female so I could go down there and ride standing in the front of the bus -- eating a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich.

The "split infinitive" in the headline is not a problem. The rule about split infinitives is generally considered to be out-of-date. The headline is clear and grammatically correct by current standards. That's what counts.

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