Former Mossad Head Says Haredim Biggger Threat To Israel Than Iran

The former head of the Israeli secret service said Thursday during an army boarding school reunion that while Iran should be prevented from becoming a nuclear power, its capabilities are still "far from posing an existential threat to Israel." "The growing haredi radicalization poses a bigger risk than Ahmadinejad," Halevy said, adding that "the ultra-Orthodox extremism has darkened our lives."

Ephraim Halevy

'Iran far from posing existential threat'
Ex-Mossad Chief Ephraim Halevy warns strike on Iran could have devastating effect for region. 'Ultra-Orthodox radicalization poses bigger threat than Ahmadinejad,' he says
Yoav Zitun • Ynet

Former Mossad Chief Ephraim Halevy warned against an Israeli strike on Iran, saying that the results of a confrontation could be devastating for the Mideast.

"The State of Israel cannot be destroyed," he told Ynet on Friday. "An attack on Iran could affect not only Israel, but the entire region for 100 years."

The former head of the Israeli secret service said Thursday during an army boarding school reunion that while Iran should be prevented from becoming a nuclear power, its capabilities are still "far from posing an existential threat to Israel."

"The growing haredi radicalization poses a bigger risk than Ahmadinejad," Halevy said, adding that "the ultra-Orthodox extremism has darkened our lives."

Political-Security Cabinet member and Housing and Construction Minister Ariel Atias slammed Halevy for claiming that the "ultra-Orthodox radicalization" poses a bigger threat for Israel than a nuclear Iran.

"Halevy's statements are shocking and inciting and they divide the people of Israel at a time when it needs unity more than ever," Atias said, urging the former Israeli intelligence head to apologize.

The Shas minister claimed he had a hard time understanding "how a Jewish man, who was the head of the Mossad, expresses himself in such a shameful, untruthful and provocative manner against the Jewish public, whose only sin is keeping the Jewish people's heritage alive without enforcing it upon anyone."

This wasn't the first time that Halevy, who headed the Mossad between 1998-2002, expressed opposition to an attack on Iran. In 2008, he told Time Magazine that the measure should only be used as a last resort, as its effects could resonate in the region for a century.

[Hat Tip: Ruthie.]

Comments

[Yochanan Lavie]

"how a Jewish man, who was the head of the Mossad, expresses himself in such a shameful, untruthful and provocative manner against the Jewish public, whose only sin is keeping the Jewish people's heritage alive without enforcing it upon anyone."

What about chareidi control of the rabbinate, and taking millions of shekels from taxpayers? Or chareidim imposing their machmer standards of modesty upon everybody, including the National Religious girls? Halevy, sadly, is right. If the chareidim would work, and truly not impose their views on others, then they wouldn't be a threat.

[Robert Wisler]

Halevi is absolutely right on. Within 15 years, Jerusalem will be like Karachi with radicalized hareidim using new methods (such as terrorist bombs perhaps???) to wreak havoc on secular society.

Remember that in the 80's and 90's, Pakistan was a forward looking country who had a woman(!!!) ruler. Now, it's terror whereever one is in that country because of its radicalized Muslims.

Israel will share this hellish future unless the hareidim are IMMEDIATELY disenfranchised. Most importantly, no more subsidies to their institutions unless they "abide by the rules".

[Joe Field]

Going forward, instead of using OMG I will use”Joe Field”

Finally, someone with political backing has the guts to say the truth. Now we only need to see real action.

[Mendy Hecht]

"Halevy's statements are shocking and inciting and they divide the people of Israel at a time when it needs unity more than ever," Atias said, urging the former Israeli intelligence head to apologize.

Atias is right--does Halevy really think the "Haredim" are as dangerous as a man who wants to drop a nuclear bomb on Israel?

[p]

Never underestimate the devastating effect of a dirty diaper. Talk about a dirty bomb!

[Jeff]

" ...whose only sin is keeping the Jewish people's heritage alive without enforcing it upon anyone."

And he says it with a straight face, yet.

[Yochanan Lavie]

For you 80's fans,apologies to A Flock of Siegels (I Ran)

I walked along Jerusalem.
I never thought I'd meet a threat from Jews;
Meet a threat from Jews.
With a black hat and stringy hair;
The kind of hat that cossacks would wear, too;
Cossacks would wear, too.

Chorus:
And Iran, Iran's so far away.
I-f*cking-ran, Iran says "bombs away".
I gotta say "oy vey".

A crowd appears with stones ahead;
A hail of rocks comes crashing down on you,
Crashing down on you.
The crowd is moving nearer still.
A holy rebbe leads the crew;
Rebbe leads the crew.

chorus

Reached out a hand to photograph,
Girls slowly disappearing from my view;
Disappearing from my view.
Reached out a hand to try again;
I'm flouting laws of Taliban Jews;
Laws of Taliban Jews.

And Iran, Iran's so far away.
I-f*cking-ran, Iran says "bombs away".
And Iran, Iran's so far away.
I-f*cking-ran, I gotta say "oy vey".

[Shmarya]

Atias is right--does Halevy really think the "Haredim" are as dangerous as a man who wants to drop a nuclear bomb on Israel?

Posted by: Mendy Hecht | November 05, 2011 at 08:43 PM

Please.

Halevy doesn't think Iran is close to being able to strike Israel with nuclear weapons.

But he knows – like economists and IDF heads know – that the haredi drain on the state, haredi intentional unemployment, welfare drain as a result, failure to pay taxes on the businesses they do have, failure to educate their children to compete in the modern world, and their refusal to serve in the IDF to defend the country that gives them all that welfare, will quickly weaken and destroy Israel.

This is demonstrable fact.

[Proton Soup]

Atias is right--does Halevy really think the "Haredim" are as dangerous as a man who wants to drop a nuclear bomb on Israel?

Posted by: Mendy Hecht | November 05, 2011 at 08:43 PM

iran isn't threatening to nuke israel.

[Waiting4Moshiach]

Real Yidden know that more Torah is better than less Torah. It is the only way to Moshiach.

[Joe Field]

Posted by: Mendy Hecht | November 05, 2011 at 08:43 PM

Give me liberty or give me death, we do not need stinking unity, if you suppress everybody but, the charediem.

[Ben]

Denial is a serious illnes, and the truth really hurts. The haredim are not keeping any heritage alive, the haredi version of Judaism bears little resemblance to the Judaism of the Torah.

Ask Mr Atias to take a trip to Bet Shemesh or the Ohr Hachaim book store before he comments on not enforcing anyone.

[Joe Field]

Real Yidden know that more Torah is better than less Torah. It is the only way to Moshiach.
Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | November 05, 2011 at 09:29 PM

How do you know that? Did God call you on the phone, or did he show to you in your dreams as a naked woman, did you also had a wet dream?

[ultra haredi lite]

Shmarya,

Please.

Be honest. His statements are completely provocative. Charedim are slowly intergrating into the work force and IDF - a trend that will certainly continue. Why didvide with an inflamatory statement that will nothing but set progress back?

[Joe Field]

Ben, who cares what Atias, i know i don't, he is part of the problem.

[Joe Field]

Be honest. His statements are completely provocative. Charedim are slowly intergrating (sic)into the work force and IDF - a trend that will certainly continue. Why didvide (sic) with an inflammatory (sic) statement that will nothing but set progress back?
Posted by: ultra haredi lite | November 05, 2011 at 09:59 PM

Are you lightheaded? The rate they go to work will take forever, they will be totally integrated the day Moshiach rides in Jerusalem on a donkey.

[ultra haredi lite]

Joe,
OMG is the idea to continuously bash or to make headway?
and yes to compare Charedim to Iran is sick!

[Yoel Mechanic]

"The growing haredi radicalization poses a bigger risk than Ahmadinejad," Halevy said, adding that "the ultra-Orthodox extremism has darkened our lives."

Oh, give us break! Just repeat after me: apples and oranges; apples and oranges.

[Joe Field]

Posted by: ultra haredi lite | November 05, 2011 at 10:21 PM

I am not bashing, just pointing out the obvious. Halevy never compared Charediem to Iran, what he did was to analyze which threat is more likely to harm the State, as a former Mossad Chief , he has the wherewithal to analyze this question, not you in Brooklyn NY, or wherever you are, so why don’t you stop barking and go eat some more kugel, its melava malka time.

[anuran]

He's absolutely right. The radicalization of a growing group of ignorant parasites is the greatest existential threat to Israel. There's no doubt at this point.

[Barry]

"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad" (Latin: Quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius)

[David]

Charedim are breeding at a prodigious rate, they are refusing to educate their children so they are unemployable (contrary to Torah teachings), they cannot and will not work (as they are uneducated), they refuse to fight, they are increasingly dictating government policy in Israel.

They are, without doubt, a serious threat to Israel's future. No society can sustain such a large group that refuses to work or train their children in a way that will enable them to work, is thus dependent upon welfare, and further, has the chutzpah to refuse to join the military to protect the country that pays them such generous welfare "benefits".

[Esty]

Ok, so what is the answer?.

[Avi]

100%. Charedi Jews are nothing but trouble.
And they do not represent jewdaisam.

[Esty]

100%. Charedi Jews are nothing but trouble.
And they do not represent jewdaisam.

Posted by: Avi | November 06, 2011 at 04:51 AM

Ok, so tell me. How is a BT like myself supposed to know who is ok and who isnt?

[Adam Neira]

To Yochanan Lavie,

Another great interpretation from you of an 80's classic. I can see all those mirrors in the film clip now. Thanks.

To Joe Field,

The donkey story is a metaphor for the righteous redeemer's lack of interest in material posessions.

To Esty,

The answer is for someone to sit down with all the groups and discuss a few things in a mature fashion. A healthy vision for the Holy City and the region can be explained.

[Esty]

Adam, do you really think that will ever happen?. They do not possess the mentality to be rational. So then what?

[David]

Ok, so tell me. How is a BT like myself supposed to know who is ok and who isnt?

Posted by: Esty | November 06, 2011 at 04:59 AM

Just work out who is following the Torah and who isn't. Do you really think that the Charedim who refuse to educate their children in a way that would enable them to earn a living or refuse to fight and defend themselves and other Israelis are really following Torah? Do you really think that many Charedim who consistently lie, cheat and steal (and even commit violent crimes) are really following Torah? Just because they wear goyishe clothes of 200 years ago and claim it is Jewish, does not make what they do Judaism.

[Esty]

David, I know what you are saying. BUT it takes awhile to suss people out. I have been sucked in a few times and still cannot fathom out who is ok and who isn't. I don't know enough to judge - even Charedi can sound convincing when you were raised as a xtain.

[Jeff]

Charedim are slowly intergrating into the work force and IDF

When that Haredi MP suggested some of them may want to consider working instead of studying Toyreh all day, he received death threats and had to hire a bodyguard.

As Joe said, it will take forever. Israel doesn't have that long. Also, why should secular and Liberal Israelis continue to tolerate a large segment of the population that refuses to contribute in any way, constitutes a tremendous drain on the economy and reviles and berates those who support it?

[seymour]

we do force our beliefs on others

understatment of our generation or the big lie

[Yochanan Lavie]

Thanks, Adam.

[SkepticalYid]

Haredi women are the ones primarily integrating into the workforce and Nahal Haredi remains small in numbers.

That aside, I'm surprised he didn't single out the religious zionist settler movmement. They're the ones who advocate violent overthrow of the government in favor of a theocracy run by their so-called Sanhedrin.

[jancsipista.]

Waiting4Moshiach- the only way to moshaish is for you to go to a psych ward get youreself commited, i think then moshiah may come.

[Guest]

Please.

Halevy doesn't think Iran is close to being able to strike Israel with nuclear weapons.

But he knows – like economists and IDF heads know – that the haredi drain on the state, haredi intentional unemployment, welfare drain as a result, failure to pay taxes on the businesses they do have, failure to educate their children to compete in the modern world, and their refusal to serve in the IDF to defend the country that gives them all that welfare, will quickly weaken and destroy Israel.

This is demonstrable fact.

Posted by: Shmarya | November 05, 2011 at 09:04 PM

But if you try to explain to Shmarya that the welfare state is destroying America as well, he gets all defensive. The fact that 47% of America does not pay any income taxes, the fact that such a large percentage of certain minority communities is breeding so much, with dysfunctional single parent families, all on food stamps, without jobs, on drugs and in gangs, according to Shmarya this is ok. It is only the haredim in Israel that will destroy Israel. That's "demonstable fact".

Please.

[jancsipista.]

one thing is for sure it is that hareidin ultra orthodox hassimd are anarchists, they want everyone to be as crazy and self destructive as they are thry live in an insane way and want everyone to be dragged down to thier level of mindless behaviour

[Robert Wisler]

Esty, the simplest solution is to STOP SUBSIDIZING THEM! Let 'em sink or swim according to their own accomplishments without subsidies for having more children, subsidies for their schools, etc etc.

They will benefit also, as no one will be able to accuse them of being "parasites" as one poster here termed them. It'll also give their society the "prod" that they need to enter the workforce, even as laborers if necessary.

[Guest]

Esty, the simplest solution is to STOP SUBSIDIZING THEM! Let 'em sink or swim according to their own accomplishments without subsidies for having more children, subsidies for their schools, etc etc.

They will benefit also, as no one will be able to accuse them of being "parasites" as one poster here termed them. It'll also give their society the "prod" that they need to enter the workforce, even as laborers if necessary.

Posted by: Robert Wisler | November 06, 2011 at 07:59 AM

Absolutely.

And the same should be done in America with the programs, if we want these minorities to stop being parasites, it will give them a "prod" to enter the workforce, and we can stop subsidizing their breediing.

[Reb Chaim]

Another voice of reason has been heard from. But it is a lonely voice crying out in the wilderness. With their ever growing birthdates and the political power they wield, the haredim truly are a greater threat to the future of Israel than Hamas, Hizballah and Iran all put together. These latter groups can be stopped by force if necessary, whereas the haredim and the influence they exert are virtually unstoppable, as long as the welfare system of the state continues to support them. Maybe one day this balloon will finally burst, but that day still seems a long way off.

[WoolSilkCotton]

The haredim are always comparing everyone to Nazis.

So why can't haredim be compared to Nazis?

[Gevezener Chusid]

Talk about subsidies and parasitism:

The Zionist entity in the Holy Land is a parasite on the U.S. that has outlived its usefulness altogether. It is time for the U.S. to stop subsidizing and supporting it. I am sick of my tax dollars being sent overseas when the infrastructure of my own country needs so much in the way of repair.

[SkepticalYid]

@Guest: your faulty data, your racist crap aside- there are roughly 3.1 million jobs available and there are at lead 19 million people looking for work. So how would you suggest all those people immediately start working?

[flat earth]

Just like Rockland County NY.

[Zoobiemanyak]

Real Yidden know that more Torah is better than less Torah. It is the only way to Moshiach.

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach

Arrogant fuck!!! Youre conndescending capricousness is the obvious product of a demented, slow,and shallow mind. IDIOT.

[nobody]

I knew the rabble on this site would get their jollies on this guy's comments. Doesn't make it true, however. It's called political posturing and scare tactics - the same thing Shmarya utilizes.

[Joe Field]

Ok, so what is the answer?.
Posted by: Esty | November 06, 2011 at 04:45 AM

Simple, the welfare state must end. Then they well have no choice but to work for a living, and if you work than you don’t have time to dictate to others hoe to live.

[Rebitzman]

But if you try to explain to Shmarya that the welfare state is destroying America as well, he gets all defensive

I think perhaps he might be trying to same on point. The fact that it may or may not be an issue elsewhere isn't particularly relevant to the discussion, and is basically a lame attempt to justify.

Fact is, Israel is surrounded on all sides by people that wish to see her destroyed, and the fastest growing segment of her population is serving only to make her weaker in the face of these very real, very tangible dangers. I have friends who live in extremely Orthodox communities on the east coast and in Canada that have adopted the model that not EVERYONE needs to spend their days in study, and that the expectation and contribution of those who do not (the majority) are expected to work to support those that are so tasked. This is (as I understand it) the model being suggested fr Israel, and for other parts of the US where the Haredim are a tad more welfare dependent. Can't happen soon enough and certainly isn't happening fast enough in either pace. The communities where it HAS happened have one thing in common - leadership that recognizes the bigger picture, and acts on that information.

Have to be honest, however, even this model is somewhat flawed, because as it exists it removes the need for ANY study and frankly, independent thought from the "worker bees".

To a degree I agre with Halevi in that the threat of Iran's nukes can - and likely will be neutralized with a couple if cruise missiles. I don't think anyone is advocating bombing Mea Sharim or Crown Hights.

Right?

[Joe Field]

Ok, so tell me. How is a BT like myself supposed to know who is ok and who isnt? (sic)
Posted by: Esty | November 06, 2011 at 04:59 AM

Esty, it is simple, religion, should be voluntary, if a person or community, try to worship, without forcing other s, physically, or politically, to adhere to their religious views.

[Joe Field]

Adam, do you really think that will ever happen?. They do not possess the mentality to be rational. So then what?
Posted by: Esty | November 06, 2011 at 05:06 AM

Don’t try, Adam, is only interested in money, before he would sit down and discus his visions he want to be paid. And in some way he thinks he is Moshiach.

[Joe Field]

Posted by: Guest | November 06, 2011 at 07:54 AM

Not paying taxes, is not the same as not educating your children and not working at all and only living of the government and other help. Inasmuch welfare in the US is limited to a maximum lifetime of five years. Additionally, here in the states you having millions of people who go out everyday looking for employment but cannot find any, In Israel, they are only looking, who they could throw dirty diapers at, or better stones. Harassing you girls when the go to school, or bookstores, or whoever speaks up.

Finally, it you don’t have the brains, (we know you don’t have the honesty) it is not our fault.

[Jake]

Folks missed the kfey words in article. " reunion of military boarding school"".

He is from a era and background which institutionalized discrimination against Jews from arab countries and orthodox Jews were existed.

With the rise of secular zionism the need for religion became redundant per secular Zionism and Jews from Arab countries were mistreated and discriminated against for generation.

Suggest you folks read the recently released notes of cabinet meetings dealing with the Entebe hijacking.

[Joe Field]

Just like Rockland County NY.
Posted by: flat earth | November 06, 2011 at 09:38 AM

Do you mean just like KJ in Rockland County NY?

[Fleishike Kishke]

Gevezener, you seem to have Satmerer ideas about the relationship between the United States and the "Zionist entity." Please check out the following OP-ED by Robert Blackwell and Walter Slocombe: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/opinion/la-oe-blackwill-israel-20111031

[adams]

I still don't get it. I see swarms of BT's every week. I am working part time in the music field. How did so many chareidishe customers know the words to CSNY songs that we were playing? OK I understand someone already in it, but how do you explain how they rope in the young and gullible? Ahan I just answered my own question. For the record, I am deeply sorry I fell back in it. But that is me. maybe others have friendships and the social life and they are happy with that. me I tried for many years to fit in the frum world, both MO, Chareisish and Chassidish which i have in this town. I finally realized that it's a waste of time. Now I enjoy my Shabbosim not in Shule but taking nice walk through parks or small forest areas. Instead of feeling miserable in shules.

[Jeff]

Posted by: Guest | November 06, 2011 at 07:54 AM

He got that 47% figure from Michelle Bachmann, or whichever genius she got it from.

the welfare state is destroying America as well

As Shmarya would say, try to process - America isn't being destroyed by the minorities you despise. It's being destroyed by the rapacious wealthy you idolize, and by the behavior of the morons and lunatics you and your buddies have spent the past three decades voting into office.

[Barry]

Jake, what you call discrimination against Jews from Arab countries and orthodox Jews is what is known as tough love. It brought them out of their primitiveness and backwardness.

We live in a Darwinian world and any segment of society which imagines it can escape that grim reality through primitiveness and fantasy will end up suffering. The Derech Yisroel Sabah in Eastern Europe whose first stone was laid by the Chossom Sofer and which the Haredim completed terminated in the death camps as it inevitably had to.

Hareidim such as Gevezener Chossid wish to lay that cursed Derech in Israel, save that they will ensure that men keep on one side of the derech while women keep to the other. As before they will refuse to look to see where this derech will inevitably lead to

[Korbendallas72]

The game is going to change on this haredi troglodytes faster than they ever expected. Some part of their reptilian minds have to register this.

[anuran]

Ultraharedi lite, yes it is sick to compare the charedim to Iran. In Iran very religious people work. They serve in the Army. They contribute to society. They obey the law. The Israeli version does none of that.

[Yoel Mechanic]

This issue here is that there are two quite unrelated challenges that Israel (the nation state of the Jewish people) is facing: foreign policy issues, particularly Iran, and domestic issues: heavy social programming outlays, for Chareidim in particular.

So the problem is what kind of lame educational system, and political culture has produced a pinnacle of political "saviness" such that someone could become head of Mossad and have no common sense on how to conduct himself in public.

This ridiculous inflammatory rhetoric is suitable for ridiculous blogs (can you think of an example, eh??) and feckless bloggers who like to mouth off, and pick on people who annoy them. But it is simply not the way for someone in a position of responsibility and authority to behave.

[Joe Field]

So the problem is what kind of lame educational system, and political culture has produced a pinnacle of political "saviness" (sic) such that someone could become head of Mossad and have no common sense on how to conduct himself in public.
Posted by: Yoel Mechanic | November 06, 2011 at 12:04 PM

It is self-evident, that you think of yourself as better and more sophisticated person than Halevy, and what pinnacle of life did you attain? Not to besmirch your mechanical abilities, but you are not on par with Halevy.

[Gevezener Chusid]

@ Fleishike kishke.... it's nice to know that the Zionist entity has been of some benefit to its primary caregive. Of course, if it had not been for its existence all along (I admit that it served a useful purpose in its early years) the entire Middle East problem would most likely not be a problem and the entire Muslim world would not have galvanized as a hate machine against the U.S. But that is a done deal at this stage.

[Gevezener Chusid]

@ David. I am very far from "Haredi".

I do believe, however, that the rights of Haredim and Yemnenites, Sephardim and all other cultural minorities in Israel and in the rest of the world should be respected and protected and that the rest of us could learn alot from them.

[Rebitzman]

@ Gevezener Chusid

Rather agree, but have to add that respect is earned, and not soley a function of one dressing up like a Pole from the late 17th century. When you set yourself up on a pedestal (and I don't think you can but argue that a group that sells itself as "frum", "Torah Jews" and "authentic" have done exactly that) that people just might hold you to a higher standard.

When a person within the group - even if it IS only "1%" (with deference to Mendy with that number) misbehaves (most benign way I could say - rape or steal) and the group, especially the leadership DEFEND those people, it is reasonable to assume that people will comment, and they will condemn ALL within that group.

[Max]

Posted by: Guest | November 06, 2011 at 07:54 AM

He got that 47% figure from Michelle Bachmann, or whichever genius she got it from.

Posted by: Jeff | November 06, 2011 at 10:48 AM

Jeff, everyone knows that 47% of america doesn't pay federal income tax. Here is a link from Daily Kos that admits it. Of course Daily Kos will twist it, and say that the reason that the 47% don't pay federal income tax is because they make so little, and that the other 53% also don't pay on the first $30k.

But the point is still true. The fact is that 47% of America pays no federal income tax at all, and the other 53% of America is paying taxes to support the other 47%. Just like the haredim in Israel.

So 'guest' has a point.

Here is the link:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/20/1028209/-47-dont-pay-Federal-Income-Tax-Its-actually-closer-to-100

[BeenThereDoneThat]

"Ultraharedi lite, yes it is sick to compare the charedim to Iran. In Iran very religious people work. They serve in the Army. They contribute to society. They obey the law. The Israeli version does none of that."

And on top of that, they support their country, while the ones in Israel are against it.

In fact it is their aim to Destabilize the country, so that it can be overthrown, opening the door for Hashem to send the Moshiach, and create a truly Torah true country.

They are the emeny from within.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Max | November 06, 2011 at 01:30 PM

No. You're wrong.

In America, people who do not pay income tax still pay property tax (if they own property), payroll tax, sales tax, and other taxes.

In Israel, haredim don't work, which means they drain the welfare system.

And the haredim who do work often work off the books, meaning they illegally pay NO taxes.

So Guest does NOT have a point – and any honest relatively bright person familiar with the facts knows this.

[flat earth]

Just like Rockland County NY.
Posted by: flat earth | November 06, 2011 at 09:38 AM

Do you mean just like KJ in Rockland County NY?

More like New Square and Monsey, KJ is in Orange County but same thing. Just keep taking public assistance and giving nothing back. They are breaking public entitlement's back.

[Joe Field]

(I admit that it served a useful purpose in its early years) the entire Middle East problem would most likely not be a problem and the entire Muslim world would not have galvanized as a hate machine against the U.S. But that is a done deal at this stage.
Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | November 06, 2011 at 12:28 PM

The purpose was to give to worldwide Jews the ability immigrate to a country, were they are equal. That usefulness is still there. As long as the charediem, don’t exhort undue influence.

[Max]

@Guest: your faulty data, your racist crap aside-

Posted by: SkepticalYid | November 06, 2011 at 09:30 AM

I went back and checked what Guest wrote that was so racist. The only thing that I was able to find was that he wrote "But if you try to explain to Shmarya that the welfare state is destroying America as well, he gets all defensive. The fact that 47% of America does not pay any income taxes, the fact that such a large percentage of certain minority communities is breeding so much, with dysfunctional single parent families, all on food stamps, without jobs, on drugs and in gangs, according to Shmarya this is ok. It is only the haredim in Israel that will destroy Israel."

I actually thought that Guest was referring to haredim in US. Then when I saw that you called him a racist, I realized that you understood him to be referring to blacks.

Which makes you the racist. Because how did you know that he was referring to blacks, if not for the fact that you believe the same crap that Guest believes about blacks.

I know, for example, that blacks as a community are not on food stamps, are not on drugs, and are not in gangs. I know that the percentage of children born out of wedlock in the black community is not 70%, and that the black community is a very upstanding law abiding community. Therefore, I am not a racist. It is the haredim in America that are parasites, on food stamps, stealing and raping and murdering every day and on drugs and in gangs.

You, on the other hand, took one look at Guest's comments and immediately understood him to refer to the black community. That, my friend, is utter racism on your part, you piece of shit.

[Rebitzman]

So Guest does NOT have a point

He has no point, because the tax and welfare system in the US have exacting nothing to do with the issue of the Haredim in Israel as presented in this article.

It's akin to excusing a rabbi molesting a child because a priest did it too.

And, yes. - yes I am aware that this argument has been tried as well.

[Litvish]

He is 100% right and history will prove him right.

As long as the haredim are permitted to multiply and live in Israel, the end of the Jewish state, as a democracy for all, is a fact waiting to happen.

They must be stopped but who will have the guts to do it?

How will it be done?

We must stop debating and discussing their many crimes against humanity.

The time has arrived to eliminate this community once and for all with options on the table.

If allowed to continue they, like the leeches and cockroaches they are, will eventually destroy the rest of us.

[Litvish]

Typo correction:

The time has arrived to eliminate this community once and for all with all options on the table.
===

We survived the Nazis.

We survived the Arabs.

Will we survive the Haredim, the scourge of the Jewish people and enemy of humanity?

[Max]

Posted by: Max | November 06, 2011 at 01:30 PM

No. You're wrong.

In America, people who do not pay income tax still pay property tax (if they own property), payroll tax, sales tax, and other taxes.

In Israel, haredim don't work, which means they drain the welfare system.

And the haredim who do work often work off the books, meaning they illegally pay NO taxes.

So Guest does NOT have a point – and any honest relatively bright person familiar with the facts knows this.

Posted by: Shmarya | November 06, 2011 at 01:43 PM

Shmarya, you think you're so smart, but you're not. You get this crap from Daily Kos, but they mislead you as well.

The bottom 47% of america doesn't pay federal income tax. You think you're smart when you say that even though they don't pay federal income tax, they still pay property tax, sales tax, payroll tax, and other taxes.

So let's analyze that:
Property Taxes go to local municipalities and local school districts.
Sales taxes go to the states.
Payroll taxes, which is Social Security and Medicare taxes, go to pay for the person's social security and medicare, sort of like a premium on an insurance policy. (which itself is one giant ponzi scheme, but that's another discussion)

As for the funding the $3.5 Trillion federal budget, (which includes annual budget deficits of $400 billion during Bush's presidency and which ballooned to $1.3 trillion during Obama's presidency,) the bottom 47% of America pays -0- - nada - gornisht - towards that.

That is a huge drain on the country, and will sink America, just as the haredim not contributing taxes is sinking Israel.

[Shmarya]

…The time has arrived to eliminate this community once and for all with options on the table.

If allowed to continue they, like the leeches and cockroaches they are, will eventually destroy the rest of us.

Posted by: Litvish | November 06, 2011 at 02:07 PM

A bit harsh, don't you think?

I think it suffices to stop allowing haredi draft dodging while cracking down on tax evasion and cutting welfare benefits to the intentionally unemployed.

[Rebitzman]

As long as the haredim are permitted to multiply..........

You may wish to try this again. Short of tying a knot or some form of forced sterilization..........not sure how you regulate this in a free society.

Your posts are generally rather thoughtful, so I am assuming you just didn't think this one through.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Max | November 06, 2011 at 02:11 PM

Please.

The bottom 47% pay a disproportionately high percentage of their income in taxes.

The upper 53% – especially the upper 1% or 2 % – pay a disproportionately low percentage of their income in taxes.

The bottom 47% disproportionately fund federal highways, national parks, airports, etc.

You see, Max, what you regurgitate from Rush and Beck may sound smart to you, but it sounds moronic to the rest of us because it is moronic.

Go stand in any Walmart and ask the stocker and the cashiers what they paid in federal income tax last year, and you'll be shocked at how much they actually paid.

That's because the two groups in the bottom 47% who pay the least taxes are the elderly on welfare and related programs and the upper few percentiles of that 47%, who take a lot of deductions. The rest of that 47% actually pays taxes.

[Litvish]

My partner and I waited ten minutes at an exit toll booth on the NJ Turnpike while the car in front of us just sat there.

We and all the people behind us were fuming since we could not leave the line and were already behind in our plans to arrive on time.

It turns out that the van with Florida license plates, whose sides had advertising for some Florida home remodeling firm, was stopped because the driver said that he had no money to pay.

We spoke with the lady at the toll booth. She said that this is very common. People drive on the turnpike and refuse to pay saying they have no money.

The toll collectors have to manually fill out a form which takes about ten minutes and then give them an envelope to mail in the toll.

The guy in the van, a Hispanic, was laughing hysterically during the whole thing. He thought this was a big joke.

And we paid our toll and went on.

The Haredim are laughing at the rest of us.

[RightJew]

Attention all Liberals:

Based on your comments against the Chareidim above, you no doubt must also believe:

- The growing Black/Hispanic radicalization poses a bigger risk to America than Ahmadinejad.
- What about Black/Hispanic control of the US government, and taking trillions from hardworking White taxpayers?
- If the Blacks/Hispanics would work, and not use rioting to impose their views on others, then they wouldn't be a threat.
- Within 15 years, most American cities will be like South Africa with with radicalized Blacks/Hispanics using new methods (such as terrorist bombs perhaps???) to wreak havoc on White society.
- America will share this hellish future unless the Blacks/Hispanics are IMMEDIATELY disenfranchised.
- Black/Hispanic drain on the American economy, out of control immigration, intentional unemployment, welfare drain as a result, low I.Q.s, failure to educate their children to compete in the modern world, will quickly weaken and destroy America.

Does this mean you Liberals are RACIST???

[Max]

Shmarya, what you regurgitate from Daily Kos, is just as moronic.

even the Daily Kos agrees that the bottom 47% doesn't pay any income tax.

Go to any Walmart, and you will find that virtually all of them pay absolutley nothing in fedreal income tax. Not only that, but they each receive approximately $5,000 in free money from the federal government, called the Earned Income Credit, and another $1,000 Additional Child Tax credit for every child they have (up to 15% of their income above $3,500).

All this paid for yours truly, people who work very hard to feed our children, and yet are taxed at rates of up to 35%.

(Oh, and how convenient to forget that the $1,000 tax credit per child would have been cut in half to $500 at the end of 2010 if the Republicans hadn't insisted on extending the Bush Tax Cuts)

Shmarya, you write:

The bottom 47% pay a disproportionately high percentage of their income in taxes.

The upper 53% – especially the upper 1% or 2 % – pay a disproportionately low percentage of their income in taxes.

The bottom 47% disproportionately fund federal highways, national parks, airports, etc.

You haven't the slightest clue. You are regurgitating talking points from the extreme left, and you actually believe it.

The bottom 47% DOES NOT pay federal income tax, in fact, they GET BACK FREE MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT, paid for the rest of us.

The upper 53%, on the other hand, pay very high rates ranging from 10% to 35%. That is a very high percentage of their income, especially relative to the 0% rate that the bottom 47% pay.

For example, you shmarya, probably pay 0% taxes. You may be poor, but you still do not contribute to the federal budget. I, on the other hand, work hard, and have 15% of my money taken out of my paycheck (besides for SS and Medicare and state income taxes) and sent to the federal government to pay for infrastructure that you use, to pay for the army that protects you, and to pay for your food stamps.

The fact that 53% of the country is supporting the other 47% of the country is unsustainable. It will collapse our country, just as the haredim are collapsing Israel.

[Max]

The guy in the van, a Hispanic, was laughing hysterically during the whole thing. He thought this was a big joke.

And we paid our toll and went on.

The Haredim are laughing at the rest of us.

Posted by: Litvish | November 06, 2011 at 02:26 PM

You fucking racist

[ultra haredi lite]

Shmarya,
Unfortunately, YOU are encouraging the type of shocking statements (I.e. the calls for haredi genocide) that some are posting here.
As an aside, to the best of my knowledge, actually having lived in Geulah in the primary Yerushalmi neighborhoods, everyone pays property taxes - even synagogues.
In all honesty, the bulk of commenters here have absolutely zero intimate exposure to any of these "charedim" they so revile (they would say good). I have. BH, I don't know any of the bad people depicted here, but I can tell you that I have had some of the most amazing experiences with charedi yerushalmi people. The people I know attempt to live a quiet life of filled with happiness, family and Hashem. They have no interest in getting involved in politics or taking any money from the government. The older ones, past the age of IDF conscription, actually work, own real estate and through simple living make ends meet on their own. I could go on, but it's useless. Haters will always hate.

[Max]

Does this mean you Liberals are RACIST???

Posted by: RightJew | November 06, 2011 at 02:33 PM

What the liberals are doing to Herman Cain makes them fucking racists.

But say that to a liberal, and he loses it. Because a liberal can't actually get their little minds around the fact the republicans are about to nominate a successful conservative black to be president of the USA. Because now they won't be able to play the race card, like they've done to silence all the valid criticism against Obama.

Now we will simply use their tactics against them, and they will so mad, it will be a pleasure to watch.

[Yoel Mechanic]

It is self-evident, that you think of yourself as better and more sophisticated person than Halevy, and what pinnacle of life did you attain?
------------------------------------

Of course. Sorry, but anyone here can decide their privacy as they wish.

Yes, I am giving better advice to HaLevy, and if you don't care for my advice downgrading me isn't relevant.

HaLevy is behaving very improperly: he should talk about these two unrelated issues in *separate* speeches...presuming he actually has something to say.

I am really behaving like a news commentator, and generally one considers the validity of what they comment rather than "who are you to think you are more sophisticated than so and so". Obviously I won't tell you if that is the case or not. Just consider how ineffective his tactics actually are. I know in Israel, a lot really go for that brusque stuff: after 60 years of political gridlock I thing that political culture should be re-examined.

[Yoel Mechanic]

In all honesty, the bulk of commenters here have absolutely zero intimate exposure to any of these "charedim" they so revile (they would say good). I ultralite haredi
------------------------------------------
Yes, this concerns me. But it doesn't end here; it is part of a general issue of talk talk talk without being too clear if you have some connection to the subject or not. Now on this blog, that is *partly* excusable since some wish to have a degree of privacy. But you do point out an important problem

[Litvish]

Max

Judging from your comments it is you who are the frustrated racist.

Why not just crawl back into your hole and fade away into the hell of terminal frumkayt from which you came.

[Joe Field]

Posted by: Yoel Mechanic | November 06, 2011 at 03:02 PM

I am sorry, I am not sure what you are trying to convey, but you are the one who wrote, “So the problem is what kind of lame educational system, and political culture has produced a pinnacle of political "saviness" such that someone could become head of Mossad and have no common sense on how to conduct himself in public.” You downgraded Halevy’s credentials. Nevertheless, if you read closely, I didn’t downgrade you I just highlighted his accomplishment and yours, based on what you call yourself.

[Max]

Max

Judging from your comments it is you who are the frustrated racist.

Why not just crawl back into your hole and fade away into the hell of terminal frumkayt from which you came.

Posted by: Litvish | November 06, 2011 at 03:20 PM

As a typical liberal, you make baseless accusations, and feel good with yourself.

Judging from your comments, you are an unfulfilled gay man, who's been craving love your entire life. You've probably felt very alienated from society your entire life. You looked for love and acceptance wherever you could, and always felt rejected.

You feel good putting others down.

You feel good putting others down, because you cannot just feel good with yourself. Yourself is empty and unloved.

so you must put others down to elevate your own self worth.

Sad life of yours, to say the least.

[Shmarya]

The fact that 53% of the country is supporting the other 47% of the country is unsustainable. It will collapse our country, just as the haredim are collapsing Israel.

Posted by: Max | November 06, 2011 at 02:46 PM
Max

Please.

Your idiocy is only matcher or surpassed by your adherence to the crap spewed by Rush and Beck.

Have you ever actually spoken to an economist about this?

You don't even begin to grasp how the code actually works.

On the simplest level, even your grossly misstated point was actually true, those bottom 47% have taxes WITHHELD from every paycheck. That money sits in the treasury until it is partially refunded.

While it sits there it is available for use by the government.

When the refund is issued, it is issued without interest, meaning the government had use of that money like a free loan, and the taxpayer did not have use of that money and did not earn anything for "lending" it out to the government.

Any idea how much money that saves the government each year?

Any idea how much it costs the poorer taxpayer each year?

Past that, there are plenty of people in the bottom 47% who pay income taxes, as I noted in a previous comment.

But the poorest of those 47% – many of whom are sick and elderly or – and the wealthier of those 47% – many of whom itemize their tax returns because of child education deductions and small business deductions and mortgage deductions – are the ones who pay no or next to no taxes.

So what you're saying is that you want a regressive income tax which would see poor sick elderly pay a far greater percentage of their meager incomes in income tax than the rich pay.

Keeping people out of poverty, fed, educated and vested in their communities brings stability and economic prosperity.

That's why the tax code was written the way it is – to encourage home ownership and higher education.

But you're an ideologue who doesn't know the history or the public policy or even the facts.

Who pays for your highways and bridges and airports and ports, the mechanisms by which the wealthy transport their goods to market?

The bottom 47% pay a disproportionate amount of the taxes which support those.

The wealthy pay a much lower percentage of their income in taxes now than they did 25 years ago under Reagan or 55 years ago under Eisenhower, and the poor and working classes pay more.

And that's true no matter if you understand it or not.

[Korbendallas72]

In all honesty, the bulk of commenters here have absolutely zero intimate exposure to any of these "charedim" they so revile (they would say good). I have. BH, I don't know any of the bad people depicted here, but I can tell you that I have had some of the most amazing experiences with charedi yerushalmi people.

-----

UHL - So have I. I've known some wonderful hasidim. I've been strongly influenced by Chabad theology and I don't think ruach HaKodesh is bunk. The issue is that they belong to a power-collective structure that dehumanizes the individual, creates a caste systen, enables totalitarianism, and discourages independence.

Silence is worse than death. They have come to adhere to an egyptian style power structure that is based upon worship of your human master. Yes it's great that we all love our teachers but holy God the avodah zarah has gotten so far out of hand. They have made themselves a threat to both Klal Yisroel and western civilization.

[Shmarya]

What the liberals are doing to Herman Cain makes them fucking racists.

The man is running for president.

He was accused of sexual harassment by at least two former employees.

When asked about this by the media, Cain gave gibberish answers that were probably lies.

Most people understand that not every accusation of sexual harassment is true.

But they also understand that when a public figure running for the highest public office in the country refuses to give straight answers to questions about alleged harassment on his part, there is a very serious problem with that public figure.

If the truth is that the two accusations made while he was NRA president were transience complaints with nothing to back them up, Cain could have put all this to rest by asking the NRA to release their files on those cases.

But Cain did not do this.

Instead, he just kept spinning.

[Shmarya]

Unfortunately, YOU are encouraging the type of shocking statements (I.e. the calls for haredi genocide) that some are posting here.
As an aside, to the best of my knowledge, actually having lived in Geulah in the primary Yerushalmi neighborhoods, everyone pays property taxes - even synagogues.
In all honesty, the bulk of commenters here have absolutely zero intimate exposure to any of these "charedim" they so revile (they would say good). I have. BH, I don't know any of the bad people depicted here, but I can tell you that I have had some of the most amazing experiences with charedi yerushalmi people. The people I know attempt to live a quiet life of filled with happiness, family and Hashem. They have no interest in getting involved in politics or taking any money from the government. The older ones, past the age of IDF conscription, actually work, own real estate and through simple living make ends meet on their own. I could go on, but it's useless. Haters will always hate.

Posted by: ultra haredi lite | November 06, 2011 at 02:47 PM

Please.

I lived in Yerushalayim for more than two years.

Many Geulah and almost all Mea Shearim businesses do not pay their VAT bills and some refuse to pay their property taxes, as well.

There was just a major raid in Mea Shearim on an illegal slaughterhouse which was illegal because it paid no taxes.

And just to help you out, I was haredi when I lived there.

I worked with and socialized with haredim.

I saw tax cheating first hand.

Any guesses how many employees of haredi yeshivot and schools are paid all or mostly off the books in cash?

Any guesses how many hardim use illegal haredi money changers / banks?

The answer is that huge number are paid off the books and use illegal haredi banks and money changers.

And I think you know this to be true.

[rebitzman]

@Max

What the liberals are doing to Herman Cain makes them fucking racists.

Rick Perry is a racist?

Because that's who appears to have leaked this to the press.

You feel good putting others down.

I actually feel VERY good that I can rational counter arguments without attacking the individual OR using vulgar language to do it.

@RightJew

What EXACTLY does US liberalism have to do with the rise of Haredi Judaism in Israel, and the perceived danger it presents?

Please be specific, and really TRY not to call people names or drop "F" bombs (I feel confident that you are capable).

[Korbendallas72]

In the future, everyone will be a racist for 15 minutes.

[ultra haredi lite]

Shmarya,
I guess we socialized in different crowds. You ran with the crooks and weren't bothered by it until you got stiffed by Chabad. That's what I call shtika kehodaa big time.

Listen, I appreciate your efforts here up to a point. If you're lshem shamayim trying to help the charedi community see its faults and correct them, im all with you. But the crap you throw up denigrating the Torah, and the instigating of calls for genocide, are just beyond the pale, and undermine your mission.

[Max]

Please.

Your idiocy is only matcher or surpassed by your adherence to the crap spewed by Rush and Beck.

Have you ever actually spoken to an economist about this?

You don't even begin to grasp how the code actually works.

On the simplest level, even your grossly misstated point was actually true, those bottom 47% have taxes WITHHELD from every paycheck. That money sits in the treasury until it is partially refunded.

While it sits there it is available for use by the government.

When the refund is issued, it is issued without interest, meaning the government had use of that money like a free loan, and the taxpayer did not have use of that money and did not earn anything for "lending" it out to the government.

Any idea how much money that saves the government each year?

Any idea how much it costs the poorer taxpayer each year?

Past that, there are plenty of people in the bottom 47% who pay income taxes, as I noted in a previous comment.

Maybe you think that if you continue repeating your asinine information that you receive from Daily Kos, that it becomes true.

Your idiocy is so pathetic.

You haven't the slightest clue how these things work.

First: Someone who doesn't make enough to pay federal income taxes WILL NOT HAVE federal income taxes withheld from their paychecks. Thay will simply fill out a form W-4, out down the exemptions that they are entitled to, and hand it to their employer. The employer will then withhold federal taxes based on the amount of taxes they are expected to pay. If they are expected to pay -0-, then -0- will be withheld.

Get that through your thick head.

So most of the 47% that don't pay any federal income taxes, don't have any federal income taxes withheld.

Some do. Those are the people that would have had to pay federal income tax, except for the fact that they are entilted to an Earned Income Credit (passed into law by Reagan) or the Additional Child Credit ($1,000 per child as per the Bush tax credits) which gives these low income earners free federal money each year. Thus, these credits offset the tax they would have had to pay, plus some more. These people will have some of their paychecks withheld, and then refunded at the end of the year.

You used this to cry your bleeding heart, at how these low-income poverty stricken people are also contributing to the massive federal bus=dget by having some of their paychecks withheld and then refunded INTEREST-FREE OMG!!!

Just for a little perspective: The median income in the US in 2007 (latest tax year these figures are available) was about $31,000. Which means that half made less and half made more. So if someone made $31,000 and had federal income tax withheld at about 10%, that means that $3,100 would have been withheld. That $3,100 is then returned to the taxpayer at the end of the year, with some free additional money thrown in by the federal government for good measure.

Now, that $31,000 could have been put into a bank by the taxpayer, right Shmarya? So you are so upset that the taxpayer wasn't able to take hi $3,100 and make interest on it. Well, how much interest would he have made??????

At about 1%, he would have made a grand total of $31 (Thirty One Dollars).

He lost $31 and made hundreds, if not thousands, of free money off the federal government with the Earned inocme Credit and the additional Tax Credit, but you are so upset that he lost $31 in interest because the govt withheld money, even though they refunded that same money at the end of the year, PLUS SOME.

Shmarya, I stand by my statements that the bottom 47% of taxpayers in the US do not pay any federal income tax. Most get extra money from teh government, paid for by the other 53%.

These are simple facts. I challenge you to find me a single accountant or tax advise or IRS agent who will dispute anything I've written on this thread.

Because every word is true.

You should stick to what you know.

[Max]

Is this racism?

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/giant-effigy-u-president-obama-held-people-affiliated-photo-212714601.html

[rebitzman]

Most get extra money from teh government, paid for by the other 53%.

The actual percentage who receive assistance is 14%.

And by the way - according to the IRS, the actual number is 36 percent of taxpayers actually pay zero in income taxes after taking their credits and deductions, so no idea where you get 47%. I suspect it's Fox news. Your choice.

By the way - federal income tax accounts for only about 20% of the taxes people pay, and the poor DO bear the brunt of these other taxes. Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes (known as payroll taxes) are paid mostly by the bottom 90 percent of wage earners because they cap out at an income level of $106,800.

So - pretty much nothing you said was true - but at least you cleaned up your language.

[Max]

Actually rebitzman, here is a CNN article stating that 45% of Americans don't pay income taxes. Of course, CNN is liberal, and they still said that 45% don't pay. Will that make a difference to you, or will you still say that I get all my info from Rush or Fox News.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

As for your other statement that poorp people pay all other taxes, like social security mediacre and unemployment insurance, think about that.Those are all insurance programs. The poor people are actually paying for a service or product that they are getting. Social security and Medicare and Unemployment are all insurance programs, whereby you pay a premium, and in returnyou receive insurance - knowing that if you are unemployed you will get unemployment checks, and that when you get old you will get ss and medicare.

Should poor people pay for their milk? Or should we say that they are paying disporoportionately for their milk? SS Medicar and unemployment are the same things. They are receiving a product in return.

The federal income taxes, which the government collects to run the country, is only paid by 53% of the country. The other 47% (or 45% according to liberal CNN) pay nothing, and instead are sunsidized by the other 53%.

So pretty much everything I've said is true (other than the 45% according to CNN instead of 47%)

[Max]

MORE DETAILS:

Here is an article from liberal Yahoo News showing that 47% of taxpayers pay no federal income tax, AND that the bottom 40% of all taxpayers actually MAKE MONEY off the federal government through the Earned Income Credit and Additional Child Tax Credit.

This means that the other 53% are not only paying all the taxes that pay for the federal budget of $3.5 Trillion, but they also give extra money so that the the lower 40% actually get money that was never theirs, paid for by the top 53%.

This is from Yahoo News, a very liberal publication.

I love how every time liberals find out some tough-to-swallow facts, they will claim that those facts came from Fox News and Rush and Glenn and that therefore these aren't facts. The truth hurts.

So again, every word I've written in this thread is 100% accurate, and I challenge you to ask any accountant, tax adviser or IRS agent to refute it.

The fact is that 53% of America subsidizes the other 47%.

(yes, the other 47% pay for their own SS, Medicare, Unemployment, sales tax which pay for state services that they get, property taxes which pay for their kids to go to school and their local police fire and garbage pickup. BUT, they DO NOT pay for the $3.5 Trillion of the federal budget wich pays for most everything else in this country, including THEIR FOOD STAMPS., the army that keeps us safe, a huge education budget, Medicaid, global warming research, and everything else the federal government spends or otherwise wastes money on.

And these misfits want us, who already pay so much, to pay even more so that they can live the high life on the dole.

[Max]

Oops! Forgot to post the article from liberal Yahoo News:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html