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October 24, 2011


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You forgot another moronic excuse actually: "He did teshuva"

As a side note, can't we have a sicarii that chases down and punishes people like this? That would make all Jews, frum or not, proud to be Jewish. Instead we have a "sicarii" who chases down rival chassidic sect members for the "crime" of davening by a different rebbe (etc) or for selling mp4 players (etc). Such a joke and embarrassment.

ahad ha-am

what else can one expect. the men appear to be walking around in frocks.so soory for the wife,who should be more worried about the harm caused to the child.-from the rabbi of chelm.


did the reporter call him rabbi monsey?? lol i guess it can serve as a generalization



This guy is not Jewish

Because only Santa Claus would have such a beard.

In fact I saw him in some store back in December doing the Ho Ho Ho routine and he let CHILDREN sit on his lap

Captain Obvious

I don't understand the hatred for "frum" people because of this story. I am religious and agree that this guy is a sick animal, as do all the other religious people I know. The fact that there seem to be some who (now say) they were aware of his actions for years does not mean that there is a vast criminal conspiracy on the part of all Chareidim to cover up child molestation. It simply means that there are misguided souls amongst the religious community (just as there are in every other community).

That being said, anyone who did know about this and did nothing about it should have to share a cell with the guy at Rikers.


"Rabbi Noson Leiter said Turner might have been educated in yeshiva but he doesn't lead a congregation and isn't a religious leader in the community. Leiter is a member of Torah Jews for Decency in Monsey."

From the Journal News. Who is Leiter? Good guy? Bad guy?

Take off that beard and actually doesn't look at all Jewish.
More like trailer trash.
I hope I'm correct.

Mendel Mendel

17. What difference does it all make; he has certainly done tshuvah.


APC - You should list these at the beginning of each post where a Chareidi is accused of molestation, or a not-even-considered-criminal-by-chareidim-offense of getting caught lying, cheating or stealing. Maybe it would stop the idiot apologists at the door.


HH -

i agree on 2 and 11 and your concise wording in 7 is laudable.

Abracadabra - thanks!! and i love your additions. i have another.

16. we must be 'dan lekaf zechut'...and by this i dont mean the victims or their families chas v'sholem. OF COURSE THEY ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED. but we must give the benefit of trust and support to the poor predator.


thanks for sharing your story. you are right about the risk being too high.

Rebitzman -

i forgot that one. and the reason why no excuses have been offered may be because i listed them all by number and it would be too embarrassing to offer any of those listed, yet thats all they have.


Are these people sick? Yes. They are pedophiles and pedophilia is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty. In many instances, it becomes an addiction, as a matter of fact some research suggests that pedophilia may be correlated with several different neurological abnormalities, and often co-exists with other personality disorders and psychological pathologies.

I remember a patient I had who used to flog himself trying to control the urges he had. it is tragic, occurs in all walks of life, social classes etc.




The password is "strawman".


Mendy Hecht

I HAVE been part of a community (not Orthodox, by the way) where this did happen, and can tell you that knowing he predator did not make him any less of a predator, and did not change anyone's attitude toward predators. The community DID, however see to it that he had an effective defense - but at the same time made real sure he no longer had an opportunity (pending trial) to ave contact with, or further hurt our or anyone else's children.

As to visiting him in prison (he was convicted) - no, I do not. I DO write him regularly, and he regularly tells me about te Lubaviich rabbi who DOES visual him, but who will not allow him to lay tefillin with him because he can't "prove" he's Jewish.

Funny thing, prison. They generally dom't allow you to bring your parent's and parent's parent's ketubahs with you when you are admitted.

So take your sanctimonious self righteous posts and.......keep them.



Hate jumping in late, but you left the most important one off your otherwise very compelling and comprehensive lst of excuses. You omitted:

This is just another }#%^##* example of that #%^%}* self hating Jew, Shmarya telling #^%}%^% stories while eating Cheetos in the }#^## basement of hs mothers home.

Variation: }%^*%# you, Shmarya.

In this specific case, I can't find the usual volume of the usual and pathetic defense or coverup that we've seen in other instances. One wonders if the Ulta-Orthodox are finally wishing up, OR if this predator (alleged) attacked the "wrong" kid (one belonging to a community leader).

Alter Kocker

The community that hides and makes excuses for a child molester is just as guilty as the molester. Authorities should be encouraged to charge those that harbor these fiends.

It is my sincerest wish that an animal such as Turner be sent to a prison where he is not placed in isolation like so many of our beloved orthodox inmates. No, he should be placed in "general population". His defence attorney will argue that is cruel and unusual punishment. I argue that "genral popluation" is the only place where true justice will be applied: He will be brutalized, repeatedly raped and ultimately murdered-that is justice.

Baruch Bendit

Big deal, "he was banned from many public areas". If the the "community leaders" knew about him, why wasn't he behind bars?

Reminds me of the "Monsey Chicken Scandal" some years ago.

HaRav HaGaon Moreinu v'Rabeinu HoRav Maran Bresslauer, shlita, knew for weeks in advance that there was a potential problem but never acted on it.

Then, when the trief chickens were uncovered, Bresslauer refused to accept the blame.

And today he is back, full force, in the Hechsher business.

Woe to Klal Yisrael.

Baruch Bendit

You can blame this on the "Da'as Torah" in the Orthodox communities, who discourage reporting these perverts to the authorities.

Kaminetzsky in Philadelphia; Cohen from Ohel and G'Vul Yaabetz in Flatbush; the Agudah empty-heads; the Chabad Rabbis . . . . all are more interested in blaming the victims rather than prosecuting the criminals.


Kenny Gribetz will get him off with community service. Bets, anyone?


You miss the point. A community has hidden these molestors for many decades. denied, helped them flee to Israel,protect them there or here. This has to be fixed.

Also while it is very noble of you to visit your friends in prison, they will be there a long time, your visit does not help them much.

You would better spend your time befriending people in your community who may not have any friends yet are fine honest people.

Most of these friends of yours in jail will not be fully rehabbed anyway.

you would be better to sympathize and help thier innocent victims.


Posted by: Chicago Sam

You can't.

In my community a mashgiakh who busted a frum restaurant that was serving treyf was fired.

He never worked another day as a mashgiakh.

The local rabbonim totally screwed him; he refused to cooperate and that was not tolerated.

What infuriated the rabbonim was not that the restaurant served treyf as much as that the local secular media made a story out of it and the mashgiakh was quoted.

That was unforgivable.

There are thousands of other such incidents with kashrus or lack of it.


Simple Jew- you are truly menatlly disturbed, for the past 20 or so years people knew about his behaviour and only people like you defend him by saying all are more guilty because he was not found guilty yet, you are tottaly missing the point he is guilty until proven innocent for all those who know who is for the past 20 years and no child here we have 7 would make up stories about such a horrible incident that you dont understand they have nothing to gain by it

Chicago Sam

Sorry to ask such a klutz kashe--if these monsters can count on the Haredi rabbis to give them cover, how can any Jew rely on the same rabbis to guarantee that their meat is "kosher"?


Posted by: Simple Jew | October 24, 2011 at 07:40 PM

they do not need to, they already have spoken by allowing him to run free for 20 years and not reporting him

so yes they have been defending him for many years


Posted by: Mendy Hecht | October 24, 2011 at 07:29 PM

Actually, for the first time, I could accept your view . Myself was molested by a family member who years later molested his daughter and numerous others and he went to jail. My first intuition was to offer him a way out, if he goes to get help and stays away from children. He refused, and the rest is history. I agree if the person is really looking for help than lifeline should be part of the punishment, otherwise the recidivism rate is too high, to gamble with other children lives.

Baltimore Orthoprax

You went to Ner Israel?
How old are you? I wonder if we know each other?
I am a Baltimorean myself. I'm 45.
Unfortunately, I share many of the same feelings you do....


Adams wrote:
What needs a biur is why people are attracted in the first place. Is that all of them want the warmth and external initial friendliness and certain entertainment it has to be something else.some of the BT's look sincere and relatively normal.

Why was I attracted? I was a BT, from a home where Judaism seemed sterile, boring. I was 20, looking for my roots which I thought would be more authentic than what I knew of Judaism.

I was also very, very naive about life and people. I really believed them when they told me about serving hashem, living an ethical life in a loving community.

They hit all my buttons.

When I found out the truth I was in denial. It all seemed too much especially since I really wanted to like some of the people I met.

However, when these very nice people turned out to have put the klal before the needs and rights of the individual, I left. I realized that this was a total cult, a community in major denial.

It didn't help when I was told that as a BT I was a second-class citizen for life.

Halakha is filled with the most ridiculous crap, totally inane superstitious shit that is held up as the paragon of virtue. Shatnez? Hilkhos shabbos? Kashrus? Attitudes toward men, women, kids, gays, goyim, rabbonim (= g'dolim), dress codes, education, etc. etc. We are dealing with institutionalized insanity.

I just asked myself, If I were not Jewish would I agree to any of this stuff?

The answer was an emphatic, No way!!!! This is so sick, so miserable, such pathetic denial of life and love.

From then on it was fairly easy for me.

Am I angry?

I am furious for all the years I lived in denial of who I really was, a sweet, sensitive, loving man made in the image and likeness of my creator. And all because I wanted to be liked and a member of a community that exploited my identification as a Jew.

Probably if I were born a Muslim I would have gone through the same identity crisis if I were a BT Muslim or even a "real" one.

It just so happened that my parents are Jews and so, partly out of loyalty to my kind, I went this way.

When I see these idiots these days I am torn between wanting to beat the shit out of them and between just feeling total disgust.

I consider them and their belief systems to be criminal.

In a fair world they would not exist.

However, this world is not at all fair when it comes to criminals of all stripes.

The adults are lost. They will just do as they are told. Their kids might be saved but probably not in most cases. They will just turn out like the parents and breed more of the same lost souls.

Simple Jew


To all of the anti frum people on the site --- please note that not one frum person posted anything to excuse his (alleged) behaviour.

The only thing worse than someone doing that is y'all accusing people of doing that when no one did.

Mendy Hecht


I live up here and I think I've seen the man out and about.

Here's some food for thought:

We can all gather here at FM and rail against these people and how we'd castrate them in an instant if we had the chance.

But what if someone you actually know is accused of being one of "these sick people"?

I don't know this Turner guy, but I do know another alleged molester.

It was easy to say, "Yeah, I'll kill any molester I meet" until someone I knew was accused of being one.

I'm not saying go easy on molesters. Not at all.

They absolutely should be punished.

The only thing is--don't take this out of context--they're people too. They're sick. They need help. (Most if not all molesters were molested themselves as kids.)

So: Prison? Yes. A lifetime of community service? Yes. Banishment from the community? Yes. And "no" to avoidance, apologetics, defenses and excuses.

If you have to ask why a molester should be outed and punished and not shielded and sheltered, I can't explain it to you.

But, on the other hand, as the molester goes through the punishment consequences of his actions, he still needs support, like visits in prison.

If this other guy I know does go to prison, that's what I would do.

But that's just because I'm just an acquaintance.

If I were a victim or close relative of a victim, I don't think I'd be able to do that. I'd probably think, "Good! Let the monster rot in prison and drop dead."

So if you're a parent of a victim and think I'm totally nuts for writing the above, I hear you.

I'm just thinking out loud here.


Sweet Adoline- thanks for clearing it up for me, about 6 months ago i was at the wedding of rabbi dovids daughter.

Sweet Adoline

To Jancsipista-Rabbi Moshe Weinberger is in Woodmere; Rabbi Dovid Weinberger is in Far Rockaway.


Litvish, its hard to expect masses of them to leave but education and publicity of their crimes and atrocities can help shed the truth.


please he is not Jewish

end of story


yes, all segments are sick incl. MO, albeit in other ways as well. I can see why people leave. What needs a biur is why people are attracted in the first place. Is that all of them want the warmth and external initial friendliness and certain entertainment it has to be something else.some of the BT's look sincere and relatively normal.

Chicago Sam


I don't disagree with what you wrote; I share the same sentiment. The altar weeps for all the innocent victims of this monster.

IMO, the Orthodox community is severely sick, and I am afraid it has been sick for many centuries, if not a millennium ... and the worse part is that they continue to spiral out of control.


Anuran and rest:

I agree that being caught is the worst thing and having it all publicized in the goyishe media makes them feel uncomfortable.

The crime is immaterial to them.

Their is nothing that they cannot justify. They are the very model of denial.

They have forfeited their rights to be considered as part of the human race.

They put community image and shanda far di goyim above the horrors that are perpetrated in their little world.

If tomorrow every single frumik in the world were to be eliminated I wouldn't weep a single tear.

They are hateful people who deserve everything that they get.

I also wouldn't weep for all the other hateful people ( fundamentalist Muslims, Christians and their ilk) who accompany them to their inevitable punishment, that being their choice to live a life of sin against their fellow man/woman, hashem and the lands that stupidly award them citizenship while they steal and live off of the rest of us.

Today, a frumik whom I have taken care of for free for years, made an appointment to see me. I told my secretary to tell him that he will now have to pay like all the other patients. His wife is employed and supports them,his daughter whom they also support nicely goes to school in another area;they also have a house, a car and live quite well. He refuses to work. He immediately cancelled the appointment claiming that they have no money to pay me.


david- first of all rabbi david weinberger is in lawrance long island in the five towns and where do you take youre info from that he is involved in a sex scandel?


David and Tommy, are these people actually capable of shame? Or is it just unhappiness at being caught?


Stave/Yona/JPAC (same person)

Does JPAC endorse molestation? Does JPAC endorse mesira in a case of molestation?


David asks if the frumiks actually feel shame over this.

No, they don't.

Yes, I think they do. They feel shame. He was arrested after all. Yet, they don't feel guilt. That's a problem throughout the Jewish community: public embarrassment and ridicule is often perceived as a bigger problem than the problem itself. Sincere morality too often takes a back seat to avoiding chilul Hashem (i.e. bad PR).


And more:

13. This is terrible PR for the frum community and Klal Yisrael. This should not have been reported to the police, but rather dealt with by a reputable Beis Din which can handle the problem with Daas Toirah.

14. He was framed by people out to extort money from him or his family (rachmana l'tzlan).

15. It doesn't matter what he did, if he becomes a prisoner in a Goiyish country we have to collect Pidyon Shvuyim funds to free him!


Very seriously...

You are dealing with 'two' different people...

Dr Jeckle and Mr Hyde

I have seen it myself

who knows

"He is innocent unless proven guilty", unless he is a convert or a descendent of a convert. Haredi beit din certainly applies "guilty until proven innocent" principal to the converts and their descendants (over 10,000 people unconverted by a single stroke of a pen based on a single suspicious case in Israel by a haredi fanatical rabbi Sherman just recently and not a single haredi rabbi objected).

Conclusion - haredizm is a sickness and not a single Haredi rabbi can be trusted.


APC - Excellent! (As always.)

Might I add:

12. He is innocent unless proven guilty.

(They used this line with Yehuda Kolko. Then they said he was never "proven" guilty, because he took a plea bargain, so because he was never "proven" to be guilty - he's innocent! What a crock!

Funny how Chareidim use the principals of the USA legal system to defend themselves when it's convenient, yet at the same time reject that system, saying that only their inept Beis Din is valid.


David asks if the frumiks actually feel shame over this.

No, they don't.

As far as they are concerned the only problem is that he got caught by the police and will be subject to the law of the land as opposed to the laws they create in the name of hashem and torah.

As my rebbe, a magid shiur at Ner Yisroel Baltimore, once told me, " You can do anything you want, believe anything you want; it really doesn't matter. As long as you play the part you will be a member in good standing in the community."

At least he was honest.

Hope everyone had a merry simkhas torah.

Now back to the disease of "Torah-true Judaism".


Posted by: Chicago Sam | October 24, 2011 at 04:17 PM

The real question should be when he raped a child why didn’t he think of his family, and how much they would suffer when his behavior becomes public. No, not for one second, did he reframe from molesting children, why would I care what his family is going through. Should the community look the other way because a family member would suffer? Every criminal has family who are unfortunately ensnared when they are exposed.


Also 7





Chicago Sam

Very tragic story. I wonder how his family is taking this . . .


In the news video it says that his wife and children are suffering from the shame of the accusations.

Do the frumma actually feel shame about this sort of thing? It's not like we're talking about drinking chalav stam or wearing blue shirts, which would, for them, be truly shameful.


i'll help the haredi apologists save time. please just refer to the number in front of the excuse you want to offer.

1. he's not charedi. shmarya photoshopped his picture.
2. he's not a REAL charedi. he just dressed and acted like one.
3. he couldnt have done it, he once gave tseddaka.
4. he was forced to rape children by secular jews.
5. the victims werent children but rather little actors who entrapped him.
6. he misunderstood certain parts of the torah and thought he was doing a mitzvah.
7. he's a true tzaddik. no futher defense needed.
8. the accusers and their families are lying anti-semites.
9. its loshon hara so that makes it not true.
10. who cares what he did? somebody was oiver the prohibition of mesira and thats what we should be concerned with.
11. if there werent 2 adult male witneses to the act it never happened or doesnt matter.


This guy deserved the harshest punishment!!!
He has a sickness that's why he can learn Torah and do this.it's like being gay and observing all other mitzvahs.


if what i read about him is half true he should be skinned alive, it just boggles the mind how someone who supposedly learned torah can stoop to such pure evil , he definitly deserved the death penalty if what they claim he did is true

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