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October 17, 2011


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why do you speak so negatively about her? So they took care to have arba minim, what's wrong with that.

There was a Rabbi who said (I don't know if it was R' Salant)
that people tend to care about their own gashmiut and about their fellows' ruchaniut, when they should rather increase their effort in their own ruchaniut and in the others' gashmiut.

I understand the owner of this website that he want to expose things that are wrong among people who call themselves (erroneously) orthodox, and taking care that these very bad phenomena at least come to an end, and to fight injustice and abuse. That is very important.

But it is also important that we do positive acts, not just fight against what is wrong, but do positive acts ourselves.

A problem in our times is that Jewish people (and potential converts) do not know to whom to turn to. There are so many false 'Rabbis' out there, for example from Reform.
Chabad is doing great work, but I think they appeal to some people more than to others.
That is probably the case with any presentation of Judaism.
There is also Aish.com

But I think that there should be more alternatives.

This website is good for showing what is not Judaism,
but we need resources/websites that show what iS real Judaism.

We should be careful how to judge people (and perhaps if we judge people at all) because they may be tinok ha nishba, and grew up without any chance of knowing actual Judaism, and may not even know so well where they could look if they wanted to.

Wishing you all a happy and blessed good new year!



I direct you to the delightful responsa by R' Uzziel on conversion, motives, standards, and what should be expected of converts. I also direct you to Hillel the Elder's reaction to the potential convert Shammai chased out, and the writings of the Rishonim about what is really required of converts. The "standards" we impose on conversions today are xenophobic, extreme, and mark a radical departure from the historical continuity of the authentic halachic practice of our people. Its bigoted and unrealistic and, I believe, intentionally so. I prefer to live in a Jewish world run by Beit Hill, not Beit Shammai. Indeed, Shabbat 31b cautions us to be like Hillel and not Shammai. Its too bad the frum velt, which has increasingly become Hareidistan, has abandoned the teachings and values of chazal in favor for opinions the Sanhedrin's of old rejected.


@Maple Bacon:

Some rabbis might try to argue wearing makeup on Shabbat is assur and that the makeup is muktzeh as a result, but they would be taking an extreme, hyperdox position that abused the actual underlying halacha to get there. R' Mosh Feinstein wrote an opinion indicating women could wear makeup on Shabbat and yom tov because it makes them feel good about themselves and helps them be joyful on the day -- they key was how the makeup was applied and removed, and avoiding mixing colors. His reading of Talmud was cogent, precise, and made sense (and didn't employ some of the syllogistic reasoning his stricter rulings sometimes fell prey to). I'm pretty sure its been translated into English and is out there on the Interwebs somewhere.

Sarah K

It is a true disgrace what Haskel Lookstein has done this for money that he doesn't even need. He pulls in more than enough cash and perks from KJ and Ramaz and shouldn't have to perform this farce. You would think that Lookstein would be far too busy with his duties at the shul and the school to be able to take the time to do this for people who are not members of his congregation. It's a perfect example of a star fucker providing what big bucks and fame can buy. One would have thought better of Lookstein. Shame on him. And Ivanka's father must have been proud of his (supposedly newly Jewish) daughter's photo appearing in major dailies in her pole dancer's outfit -- just his kind of gal. The apple obviously didn't fall far from the tree regarding this family's values.


The only one ignorant and stupid is you!
I didn't grow up frum by any means. I just don't like hypocrites and phoniness. If Ivanka had a Reform conversion then I wouldn't care how she dressed or where she ate at. It's the whole "Orthodox" aspect that has made her so-called "conversion" a fraud.
A Kushner family friend admitted on an Israeli website that Ivanka never wanted an Orthodox "conversion" but was basically forced to because of Jared's mother. Jared basically assured Ivanka that it would it be just to appease hsi mother and now it's so obvious that it was.
Read Sarah's comments which are right on target. Who cares about not coverning up her hair or wearing pants. Ivanka has basically dressed like a stripper before and after her so-called "conversion. She gets away wth it because of her fame and money. A regular Orthodox convert would never get away with what Ivanka gets away with.
You don't know anything about halacha. There's obviously a reason you're defending a fraudulent convert like Ivanka.

The Unorthodox Jew blog has done a great job reporting on Ivanka Trump's fraudulent conversion.



Seems to me that the nastiest comments are from the non-frum people here. They are doing it in the guise of "joking" as in , "ho-ho-ho I'm pretending to be a frum guy making inappropriate criticisms and comments on this girl in the picture because that's what frum people do, ha-ha-ha," but really they are just being nasty and using "fake frum jokester" as a cover to say their disgusting venom.

Joe Schmaltz

Isn't she just GORGEOUS
and now she's even kosher
lucky guy

Sarah K

Ivanka Trump Kushner was converted by Haskel Lookstein who also performed the wedding ceremony. But he must have forgotten to instruct her in the laws of modesty since she was photographed at a K-Mart (believe it or not!) in tight pants and a very tight sweater after she was married. Those photos were printed in the NY papers. There was also one of Ivanka posing in a costume similar to the ones the Playboy bunnies used to wear. These were all published after her conversion and marriage. The pix of Ivanka's new semi-frumster look must have been arranged in advance to undo those public relations mistakes and to make amends to Lookstein. A photographer didn't just find the couple by accident. The Trump and Kushner families have good publicists on their payrolls.


Posted by: IvankaisnotJewish | October 24, 2011 at 12:17 AM


The problem with you and with 99% of the people who comment on UOJ is that you don't actually know halakha.

There are dozens of ways a person can eat in a non-kosher restaurant and still keep kosher.

That the OU and others with vested interests in covering that up control American Orthodox Judaism, and that haredi rabbis are for the most part intellectually dishonest, doesn't change the truth.

Ivanka does what dozens of Amaoraim did.

That you're too ill educated to know this is not her fault.

As for how she dresses, tzniut is situational.

There are no d'orita rules.

That's why Temani women wore pants, and that's why Modern Orthodox women worse pants.

It's why the wives of Litvish roshei yeshiva and talmidei hahamim didn't cover their hair before WW2 and why Modern Orthodox women often don't cover theirs today.

But you grew up in a cesspool of ignorance and bigotry, and you're too arrogant and too stupid to realize how arrogant and stupid you really are.

Unlike the issues you ignorantly and stupidly complain about, there are actually several d'oritas that forbid shaming a convert.

You are oveir on all of them.


Ivanka is not Jewish! She had a phony conversion only to marry Jared Kushner. Ivanka always dresses in very revealing clothes, wears a ton of make-up and eats and promotes non-kosher restaurants. This was all for show.
The "Unorthodox Jew" blog has written extensively on Ivanka Trump's fraudulent "conversion." Donald does not haver Jewish grandchildren
Mike, the nazis totally agree with you!


WHY Trump merited having his daughter join the Chosen people?
As Torah observant Jews we know why things happen in this world as the Torah is not only the blueprint of creation, but also a blueprint of the way the world runs. Donald Trump,many years ago offered his private low flying altitude jet,as a means to fly this 10 year old orthodox boy from California,who was in need of an operation, but needed a certain low flying plane to get to the hospital. In this merit,G-d Almighty blessed Trump with a fleet of airplanes and saved his life from boarding a helicopter with some of his chief managers,which ended in a fatal crash. It was the hand of G-d that made Trump change his mind moments before boarding. This left Trump with a bitter taste of life which led to his divorce. But the divorce actually too was orchestrated by G-d so that his daughter should experience an upheaval and come to realize the ultimate purpose in life. Many people become more spiritual when tragedy strikes them. How many people who after an illness,a death in their family,a financial disaster begin taking a second look on life. Donald is a very blessed man for he always reached out to G-ds children--The Jewish people and thus G-d reached out to his children. There are millions of reform and secular conservative born Jews who have lost their share in the afterlife while Donald Trump a non Jew will bask in his daughters greatness of becoming an observant Jewess, a member of Hashems tribe. How many reformed secular Jews have non Jewish grandchildren,while Trump merits Jewish granchildren.


Maple Bacon, I also just wanted to share a few things that helped me to not totally lose my faith in the religion. One is Faranak Margolis' book Off The Derech, and Part Two is dedicated to BTs and converts. The other is Rabbi Nathan Lopez Cardozo, who speaks of how the frummies constantly violate the commandment to not oppress the ger. There are other rabbis who are very outspoken in defense of converts, and Rabbi Seth Farber has dedicated his profession to helping Israeli converts. Also Rabbi Shlomo Riskin. I am sure there are many more. These are truly men of God and it might restore your faith a bit if you familiarize yourself with their positions.


Maple Bacon, exactly - I don't look Jewish. But even if I did look Jewish, they would still know because frummies make it their life purpose to find out everyone's yichus. If there is a stronger word than "disallusioned," that's what I am.

Maple Bacon

Posted by: 'Yechiel' | October 19, 2011 at 06:50 AM

What kind of idiotic statement is that?! So it must be somehow her fault? Who knows, perhaps, like me, she doesn't "look Jewish." And even if one does something incorrectly or inappropriately, there is such a thing called constructive criticism and you do not embarrass someone in public or even one-on-one when they are trying their best to follow the rules and be sincere. And regardless if the Jewish community is small or large, people do gossip and we (BTs and converts) will always be reminded that we are not truly part of the cult...but they still gladly take our money.

Maple Bacon

Posted by: batyahgirl@yahoo.com | October 18, 2011 at 11:56 PM

In another thread, I've read what you and Litvish went through, and it was painful to read. It brings some comfort to know that I'm not the only one who is "different." And you're right, not all frum Jews are bad--there was a small handful who watched out for me and invited me over for Shabbat meals since I was a "single loser" and some still keep in touch to see how I'm doing. What I truly didn't like, especially with Chabad who claim they embrace ALL Jews, is that they didn't recognize a couple of my friends who were only Jewish on their father side...however, would an anti-Semite not hate say, "Oh, I'm not going to beat you up because halachically you're not Jewish."? I don't know how you do it by keeping a shalom bayit with a family who are still in the cult, but I admire your patience.


maple bacon



You must be doing something wrong, since wherever you go people immediately sense that you are a BT...


Maple Bacon, I hear you. I was once at a frum wedding, and I was dressed entirely appropriately, and I said "mazal tov" to an older man as was the custom (everyone was wishing everyone a mazal tov" when he looked at me with contempt and said "do you even know that that means?" WTF? I'm still in the cult because I have a husband and children who are in it, but my eyes are wide open now. That sort of nastiness toward BTs and converts is rampant in some communities, but there are some that are not like that. Still, I hate having to always be on guard until I sniff out a place.

Maple Bacon

Posted by: Esther | October 17, 2011 at 10:07 PM

No thanks--my experience in the frum community is that they aren't genuinely friendly to BTs and converts. Plus, I don't have yichus so even though I have a very good job, a house, am emotionally/mentally stable as well as financially stable I am not deemed worthy of being set up on any shidduch. If anything, being frum for awhile has humbled me and taught me to be more compassionate to non-frum Jews.

I'd rather wear a bikini out of bacon and slather myself in maple syrup before I go back into the cult. :)


How frumpy looking.
Hopefully, after yomtov she goes back to the sexier wardrobe!

charlie runkel

shmaryas newest problems with chabad they dont use lulav holders. oy vay


The source is printed on each photo.


Why is the source not credited?

There is a picture at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2048964/Ivanka-Trump-sports-jaunty-headgear-day-baby-Arabella-Rose.html?ito=feeds-newsxml as part of the series, which was clearly not taken while going to shul. Fine with me.


you are welcome to return should your heart fess up to the truth...as it will one day....even if it will be the 11th hour.It happens all the time...

Posted by: Esther | October 17, 2011 at 10:07 PM

And you're welcome to wake up and confront objective reality, should you ever be able to summon the courage.

Jonny Jones

How many of those who make nasty comments could withstand the same degree of scrutiny?

Remember when you point at someone, you have three fingers pointing right back at you!!!

Der Nister

Unfortunately both Jared and Ivanka fail the frum test since their incomes are on the books.


She's a very beautiful woman and leave her alone. So far so good, she is trying her best, as best one can to be Orthodox Jewish given her incredible background and the efforts she put in to convert as she did. Give her a chance and give her a break! She could still give Jews a lot of naches.

Mendel Shapiro

from her head cover she looks rather like a strictly Chassidish (Williamsburg style). Chabad or Litvishe have just Sheitels no hats.

Yoily Markovitz

Chabad DOES use plastic zipup Lulav holder, This year 770 is full of lulav and Esrog cases (black Holder)... Chabad likes money just as ALL the rest the Jweish world. Indeed Chabad of Livingston NJ is very close with Ivanka & the Kushners, eat your heart out.


i grew up with jared kushner. i remember when his grandparents were alive.
they are a very very nice family.
so the father made a few mistakes.
we all make mistakes.
i respect jared and ivanka to the the max.
they're more jewish than some of the idiots here in monsey. not kidding.


The real question is - where's Jared's kippah?


I like Ivanka. Good for her. She looks lovely and perfectly modest. I've seen plenty of frum women showing their knees. Now her hair uncovered is another matter . . .

Just joking.


There is no need for comments like the ones posted above.I am a very strictly orthodox woman from the most insular community in orthodoxy. Poking fun of her, even for a joke is unbecoming and wrong..
And to you "maple bacon"...sorry you left us for greener pastures ..sorry that your eyes have deceived you...and your heart went along for the ride...you are welcome to check out the scenery...those are your choices and even G...d ain't holding you back...
however...dear child
you are welcome to return should your heart fess up to the truth...as it will one day....even if it will be the 11th hour.It happens all the time...

Maple Bacon

And it doesn't look like she's wearing makeup, which is if I remember correctly is considered muktzeh on Shabbatot and yamim tovim. When I was brainwashed, I wasn't even allowed to wear untinted lip balm even though my lips wear sensitive and would crack and bleed (oh yeah, I wasn't allowed to take vitamins on holidays either). So glad I escaped from the cult!


"Except for the skirt being above her knee, tzius-wise everything checks out. Maybe she has an audience with Pinto in the succah.
Hair covered somewhat - check
modest neckline - check
arms covered - check
sweater not to tight - check"

these guys don't forgive one single detail



i see kneeeeeeeeeeeeees


Dr. Dave

And when in New York stay at the Trump Sukkah, the ultimate in Luxury Partially roofed structures!


We have a very well off family here who converted to Judaism that have been welcomed open armed into the local Chabad. The fact that they were willing to donate a Torah scroll to them had nothing to do with it.

Pressed by the wife - the Chabad rabbi DID admit he would not allow his children to marry their children, but in spite of this, the family did go forward with their promise of the scroll (but attend services at the Conservative shul).


I have the identical white sweater, but I bet hers didn't come from TJMaxx.


is he or her really Orthodox?

Abu Jihad Schneerson

I'm from missouri said:"An Orthodox conversion unless followed up by practise means nothing" is this true?Did these haredi idiots changed halakhah to this extent nowadays?


The hat she is wearing is the one they wear in the hasidic communities... Her father must kvel


And, oy vay! She is holding her husband's hand in public.

Kudos to her!

Know Em All

He means the bag the lulav is in. Chabad and everyone else do use zipup plastic lulav holders and even fabric cases that also hold the esrog.

Chabad does not use the branched woven thing that holds the lulav.

And as per that pic, she's doing just fine as far as practice is concerned.


Except for the skirt being above her knee, tzius-wise everything checks out. Maybe she has an audience with Pinto in the succah.
Hair covered somewhat - check
modest neckline - check
arms covered - check
sweater not to tight - check


her skirt's too short. send her to the monsey jewliban for a proper burka.

I'm from missouri

If there's money to be found, the Chabadniks will be there right away with their outreach. I wonder if they accept her as Jewish? An Orthodox conversion unless followed up by practise means nothing! But if there's money around I'm sure they'll come up with a favourable ruling.


The guy is married to a Trump and can't afford a decent lulav holder?

Posted by: Red Sox Fan | October 17, 2011 at 02:07 PM

Chabad doesn't use a lulav holder.

He's close to Chabad and probably got the lulav from them.

Red Sox Fan

The guy is married to a Trump and can't afford a decent lulav holder?


She still looks very nice. But I think she was hotter when she was a shiksa!!

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