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October 25, 2011

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Clean shaven - yes. Goatees - no. When people sport a goatee they are perceived as declaring themselves to be modern orthodox. I can't explain why, but that's how it is

Please.

That may be how it was in the 60s and 70s, but it isn't that way today.

Posted by: Shmarya | October 26, 2011 at 04:18 AM


I know haredim that sport a goatee.

That said, this man does not look like a haredi.

Shmarya

Clean shaven - yes. Goatees - no. When people sport a goatee they are perceived as declaring themselves to be modern orthodox. I can't explain why, but that's how it is

Please.

That may be how it was in the 60s and 70s, but it isn't that way today.

WoolSilkCotton

You can't be haredi. You at least know the first 6 letters of the alphabet.

Yoel Mechanic

I am very familiar with the dress of chareidim, as I am one myself.

Posted by: abcdef | October 25, 2011 at 11:05 PM
-------------------------------------
well, there goes your credibility.
How can we know if you have any clue about
this subject!

abcdef

"There are hundred of haredim with goatees and many more who are clean shaven.

You're obviously not familiar with how haredim dress in smaller Jewish communities, let alone how some dress in Brooklyn.

I even know hasidim who are close to very big rebbes who are clean shaven...

Posted by: Shmarya | October 25, 2011 at 05:55 PM "

Clean shaven - yes. Goatees - no. When people sport a goatee they are perceived as declaring themselves to be modern orthodox. I can't explain why, but that's how it is. I can't explain why chareidim don't wear yellow yarmulkas either, but that's just how it is, and even if you call me an idiot again, it wouldn't make me agree that chareidim wear yellow yarmulkas, nor that they sport goatees.

I am very familiar with the dress of chareidim, as I am one myself.

taylor

He was frum before his arrests.

And Shmarya was frum before he began blogging : )

Shmarya

He was frum before his arrests.

anonymous

hasidic my foot he looks like HE BECAME A Fake Baal Teshuva after he commited his crime in oto get special treatment and community support his name doesnt even sound jewish let alone hasidic if he is hasidic than shmarya is the satmar rebbe

Abracadabra

You know, for all the crimes that Rubashkin and his family did, at least his picture was not AS hard on the eyes as this guy's mugshot!

Could you imagine if we had to look at this mugshot every time there was Rubashkin news?! It would drive people away from this website!!!

Adams

The term Rabbi covers alot of ground. It's not a literal term in many cases, For instance there are people who do pastoral care, they get the title Rabbi but they are limited to visiting the sick in hospitals and perhaps running a minyan there. In earlier times they were referred to as Reverends. It is actually a notable profession that end of it.Having the title Rabbi in Kashrus allows them to travel for Mashgiach work and get paid higher rate. Most Kashrus Mashgichim don't know very much but can be spoon fed a bit about Kashrus issues.

Shmarya

A chareidi Jew would not sport a goatee

Idiot.

There are hundred of haredim with goatees and many more who are clean shaven.

You're obviously not familiar with how haredim dress in smaller Jewish communities, let alone how some dress in Brooklyn.

I even know hasidim who are close to very big rebbes who are clean shaven.

Now crawl back in to that cesspool you call your life.

abcdef

Shmarya seems to confuse the terms "Chareidi" and orthodox.

He may be an "orthodox" Jew, and he may even have "orthodox" smicha (from a worthless yeshiva)and you can even call him an "orthodox rabbi," but chareidi, he is not.

A chareidi Jew would not sport a goatee, and definitely would not look the way the guy does. A chareidi Jew would not look the way he looks in his "yeshiva" photo, and especially not how he appears for his mugshot.

But accuracy in reporting has never been your thing, has it?

Now twist what I said and come up with some bogus answer, preferably starting with either "please," or "idiot." Thanks!

WoolSilkCotton

Deremes, these are my opinions of the 8 people you listed. I am only going by the impression they give me, both in appearance, demeanor, and what I've read about them from various sources. I do not investigate what they do or don't do in private.

1. orthodox
2. don't know who he is
3. all look hasidic/haredi
4. orthodox
5. orthodox
6. Jewish, not orthodox, less religious than me
7. Jewish, about as religious as me
8. Jewish, not orthodox, less religious than me

These opinions are not based upon my opinion what they have done or said in other aspects of their lives. Example: Silver is an excellent political leader. Schneier is a piece of drek. Aron should immediately be crushed by a speeding bus. I wish Lieberman had been vice president. Brafman is an excellent attorney.

Deremes

WSC:
Which of the following are Haredi?
Which one looks Haredi as much as Koltun and is not Haredi?

1.Sheldon Silver
2.Ezra Merkin
3.Any of the Tendlers
4.Marc Schneier
5.Levy Aron
6.Ben Brafman
7.Joe Lieberman
8.Ron Perlman

Not that i am linking one with another but these names came to mind

the usual chaim

if the 500 pages of gemarra req. is actual then i hear you on a certain level. however, the guy i knew who went to this place was an utter ignoramus and i doubt he had learned even a whole masechta.

beyond that, the actual curriculum does not cover the basic areas of normative semicha. you studied for semicha, you know this. hilchot yesodei hatora is not there, nor are kidushin, milah, etc.

bottom line, he claims to be a rabbi and that has a certain weight. just because his semicha is to be questioned does not exonerate the haredism. lets just be clear about what sort of guy we are dealing with.

rebeljew

There must be no true Rabbis in Scotland, just as there are no true Scotsmen.

Gevezener Chusid

and yes, however you slice it it is a horrific chillul ha-Shem.

Gevezener Chusid

My question still stands:

Please define "Haredi" for me. I am (seriously) confused.

There was a time when even the NY Times would call anyone west of Cedarhurst "Hassidic" - is that what's going on here now with "Haredi"?

Is a Yeshiva University grad who is 100% shomer shabbos and kosher but who plays baseball on Friday afternoons and whose wife doesn't wear anything on her head considered "Haredi" or not? What are the criteria?

Is a Satmarer who goes to whorehouses and who eats lobster when nobody's looking but who keeps shabbos in public "Haredi" or not? What are the criteria?

Is a "Haredi" someone who looks orthodox but is a hypocrite or are sincerely orthodox good people also "haredim"?

ah-pee-chorus

deremes-

please save time and bandwidth.

you are citing 1. and 2 . use the numbers.

how nice.

1. he's not charedi. shmarya photoshopped his picture.
2. he's not a REAL charedi. he just dressed and acted like one.
3. he couldnt have done it, he once gave tseddaka.
4. he was forced to rape children by secular jews.
5. the victims werent children but rather little actors who entrapped him.
6. he misunderstood certain parts of the torah and thought he was doing a mitzvah.
7. he's a true tzaddik. no futher defense needed.
8. the accusers and their families are lying anti-semites.
9. its loshon hara so that makes it not true.
10. who cares what he did? somebody was oiver the prohibition of mesira and thats what we should be concerned with.
11. if there werent 2 adult male witneses to the act it never happened or doesnt matter.

Shmarya

In the real world disagreements is not lying.…

Posted by: Deremes | October 25, 2011 at 01:02 PM

In the real world, facts are facts.

The problem is that in your twisted world, facts are only facts if you agree with them.

WoolSilkCotton

Dr. Deremes, there are plenty of people who call themselves 'doctor' who I don't respect as doctors, even though some of them are nice people, but they did attend a school- even a lousy school- that gave them a diploma with the title, and so they can call themselves 'doctor'.

And so it is with the title 'rabbi'.

Deremes

++WoolSilkCotton | October 25, 2011 at 01:02 PM++

Good point.Then from now on i call myself Doctor and becuase of it WSC please call me Doctor.

No Light

Oh Derementalcase, tell me - why do you not believe he's one of your precious chareidim?

You keep trotting out the same, tired, 'No True Scotsman' arguments, and every time you open your mouth you look more foolish. APC's list might seem funny to some people, but it's actually uncannily accurate at pointing out how delusional and crazy your cultish mindset is.

If you're a product of the system (and apparently proud of it too) then I fear for the children of today, for when they're your age logic and truth will be as alien to them as cheeseburgers, and shirts that aren't white.

Do you really, truly think that by picking holes in the background/lifestyles of chareidi child rapists/murderers/fraudsters you'll somehow prove that it isn't a problem, that it's some goyishe conspiracy to make frumfucks look bad? Try telling the victims that, I dare you.

You're either insane or you have some seriously stacked-up skeletons in your closet, boy.

Deremes

++Posted by: Shmarya | October 25, 2011 at 12:16 PM++

In the real world disagreements is not lying.
I think that when you wrote:
"Neturei Karta Calls For Death Of Haredi Leader" because they said yemach shemo is closer to lying then what i said or perhaps you misinformed what it means.

As many times you were challenged when you use the term rabbi or haredi you always had your way of saying why you call that person a rabbi even though that person is no rabbi whatsoever.
Interesting that on an other thread about the arrest of a monsey man you didn't use on the latest post the term rabbi.

WoolSilkCotton

Deremes, it's not me who is calling him haredi.

He himself calls himself "a rabbi and a devout hasidic Jew". He is making as much trouble as possible on the basis of his so-called "religious beliefs".

I know plenty of "devout hasidic Jews" and "hasidic rabbis" who can't even daven in Hebrew, and who violate basic rules of Shabbos and kashrus that astonishes me (even though I am not truly Shomer Shabbos and my kashrus is about as weak as it gets), and who routinely use 4-letter words in conversation.

I don't call any of them true hasidic Jews, but if they call themselves that, what can I do. If they want to commit murder, like this guy or Grossman, I hope the frumma don't come to me for a donation on his behalf.

Shmarya

it is not at all focused on kashrut and shabbat like regular semicha programs. it does not give yoreh yorah semicha (and certainly not yadin yadin). it gives a form of "semicha" meant to give people the "skills" to conduct lifecycle events.

Again, look at the prerequisites. They're far more extensive than Chabad.

And Chabad's "focus" on kashrut and shabbos is almost always laughable, akin to learning 'smicha' out a ktizur shulkhan arukh.

the usual chaim

shmarya - you are wrong. I know someone who went through this program. it is not at all focused on kashrut and shabbat like regular semicha programs. it does not give yoreh yorah semicha (and certainly not yadin yadin). it gives a form of "semicha" meant to give people the "skills" to conduct lifecycle events. call spivak to verify. If i'm wront i'll certainly admit it, but i dont think i am.

Shmarya

Does he look haredi in any of these two pictures?…
Posted by: Deremes | October 25, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Perhaps if you pulled yourself out of that cesspool you live in and looked around in other haredi communities – like Cleveland, Miami, LA, and Chicago, for example – you'd see hundreds of haredim who look like him.

But just like you can't follow simple links that prove you wrong, or admit to basic facts that prove you wrong, you can't do this, either.

You're way too dishonest.

Deremes

He can call himself whatever he wants.
Do YOU WSC believe that he is haredi? Does he look haredi in any of these two pictures?
A chilul hashem it is huge as long as hes Jewish and true the more religious someone is the bigger the ch is.

Shmarya

even chabad semicha is better than spivak's semicha. they at least go into mechaber, shach, taz on the basic topics common to all normative semichot (eg. basar ve-chalav, taaruvot etc.). I know this b/c i have chabad semicha (which is also why i never use the title "rabbi")

this aside. even saying "he is not a real rabbi" does not mean that he and his behavior have nothing to do with the orthodox community. he/they do.

Posted by: the usual chaim | October 25, 2011 at 10:57 AM
WoolSilkCotton

You seem to misunderstand what the curriculum is.

They're covering all the basic parts of smicha, but the titles of the material are stated as if they were college courses.

Perhaps you should look at the entrance requirements, which are far tougher and much more extensive than Chabad's.

After you do that, look carefully at the curriculum and you'll see that, too, is more extensive than Chabad's.

Shmarya

You not new here so you should know that on FM is no big deal to become haredi or a rabbi just commit a crime and that's the smicha on fm

Posted by: Deremes | October 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM

Still a lying, foolish piece of crap, I see.

If you look above in the comments, you'll see a provide a link to Koltun's haredi yeshiva that shows him as a rabbi.

At that link is his picture – the one you say doesn't look like he's a haredi rabbi.

But, like always, seeing that requires that you make a very small effort – following the link.

And, like always, you didn't do that.

As so many others have pointed out over the years, you're dishonest and you're not bright.

WoolSilkCotton

Deremes, he calls himself orthodox ("devout hasidic jew"), dresses in black hat/black suit/white shirt (prior to being required to change into prison jumpsuit), went to orthodox yeshiva (even though it sounds like a crappy yeshiva), and he is making a very big stink with his so-called frumkeit to manipulate the prison system.

All the NY newspapers refer to him as "Rabbi".

We can all agree it is a horrific Chilul Hashem.

Deremes

Gevezener Chusid,
You not new here so you should know that on FM is no big deal to become haredi or a rabbi just commit a crime and that's the smicha on fm

Gevezener Chusid

Spivack's crowd is not what I would call "Haredi".... tell me if I'm wrong, but I have thoguht that "Haredi" was supposed to refer to black-hat (e.g. Lakewood) orthodox and Hasidim, not to modern orthodox.

Deremes

WoolSilkCotton,
At times you are fair and don't fall trap here like other tuchas lekkers. Does he look haredi? Do YOU really believe that hes a haredi rabbi?

WoolSilkCotton

Usual Chaim, thanks.

the usual chaim

WSC - even chabad semicha is better than spivak's semicha. they at least go into mechaber, shach, taz on the basic topics common to all normative semichot (eg. basar ve-chalav, taaruvot etc.). I know this b/c i have chabad semicha (which is also why i never use the title "rabbi")

this aside. even saying "he is not a real rabbi" does not mean that he and his behavior have nothing to do with the orthodox community. he/they do.

WoolSilkCotton

Looks like the other frummer murderer Grossman.

Soon Chabad will be jumping on his bandwagon.

WoolSilkCotton

++they basically teach you how to be an MC at jewish lifecycle events++

Usual Chaim, visit most Chabad Houses and those are the kinds of 'rabbis' you'll find.

Rebitzman

Wow- he's not a REAL rabbi.

I believe that excuse is #2 on the ah-pee-chorus list.
__________________

For the record, I also think his simcha is bogus, but that opinion is somewhat clouded by the fact that I think 95% of ALL haradi ordinations are bogus.

Isa

Hey
I went to their Web site and under "Who We Are" they list this bum as a graduate

Email these folks this article and see how quickly this bum's listing gets removed

ultra haredi lite

If he's a haredi rabbi then you're the 8th Lubavitcher rebbe. Spivak is the biggest joke around.

the usual chaim

just as a point of reference, look at the "rabbinic" curriculum at:

http://web.archive.org/web/20081220073300/http://www.ayshel.org/contact.htm

this is not a real rabbinical school, nor is it a real semicha. they basically teach you how to be an MC at jewish lifecycle events.

Garnel Ironheart

I dunno know if he's guilty or not but he doesn't look like he'd suffer too much from a hunger strike. Might do him some good...

seymour

Posted by: | October 25, 2011 at 06:27 AM

maybe he is smarter than most frummas and decided not to dress like a frumma so not to embarrass to whole Jewish religion.

or maybe he says I am not going to use my religion to excuse my crimes like again most frummas do or use the antisemitic card

Shmarya

If he's a rabbi I'm Laura Bush and Scottie is the Satmar Rebbe.

Posted by: | October 25, 2011 at 06:27 AM

Try looking here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20081220073254/http://www.ayshel.org/students2.htm

He got smicha under the name Naftali Koltun from Kollel Ayshel Avraham Rabbinical Seminary in Monsey, which is run by Rabbi Yaakov Spivack.

Have a nice life, Laura.

David

At least he removed his hat and yarmulke for the mug shot. I advocate that all frumma criminals do this to minimize the chillul Hashem.

If he's a rabbi I'm Laura Bush and Scottie is the Satmar Rebbe.

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