Chief Rabbi's Remark On Intermarriage Causes Uproar

"Marrying gentiles is like playing into the hands of the Nazis," Yad Vashem Council Chairman and former Chief Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau has been quoted as saying to students from an Israeli high school, causing an uproar among students.

Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau

'Intermarriage plays into Nazis' hands'
Several high school students walk out of meeting with Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau in protest of controversial remark. Former chief rabbi later explains, 'Assimilation serves Israel's enemies'
Udi Avni • Ynet

"Marrying gentiles is like playing into the hands of the Nazis," Yad Vashem Council Chairman and former Chief Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau has been quoted as saying to students from Ramat Gan's Ohel Shem High School.

According to the students, the rabbi made the remark during a lecture on the Holocaust and on his personal memories as a survivor of the Buchenwald concentration camp which he delivered to teenagers who had returned from a trip to Poland.

Lau's remark and the nature of his lecture caused several 12th graders to walk out of the auditorium during the lecture, the students said.

One of the teens who left the room explained, "As far as I understood, the lecture's point was that marrying non-Jews is forbidden, and according to Rabbi Lau, marrying gentiles is 'playing into the hands of the Nazis.'

"This remark was made toward the end of the lecture and made me very angry. As soon as it was said, I got up and left. I came to the lecture without any skepticism and tolerant toward his opinions, otherwise I would have walked out at an earlier stage."

The student addressed other remarks made by the rabbi, which angered him. "We were told about the daughter of a respected rabbi who disconnected from religion during the Holocaust, married a goy, had a child and sent him to a convent," he recounted.

"The lecture also included Bible verses, one which I particularly remember was from the Book of Psalms, and according to the rabbi, it described the Holocaust before it happened. This was said after he claimed that the Nazis tried to destroy Judaism and not just the Jews, so basically the Jews drawing away from religion are destroying Judaism."

Another 12th grader shared the unpleasant atmosphere caused by the rabbi's remark. "He spoke about his life in Poland and about the Holocaust, and then began preaching about assimilation," he recounted.

"He said the Jewish people must not assimilate and that we must maintain the Jewish identity. In addition, he presented delusional statistics, claiming that had there been no assimilation the United States would now have 30 million Jews, and showing contempt for those who assimilated – as if they are inferior to others."
 
Some students were upset over their fellow classmates' protest. "I saw students leaving in the middle of the lecture, not listening, and some even chose not to enter the auditorium at all. It made me very angry and bordered on disrespect for an elder and honorable person," a 12th grader said.

"A spontaneous discussion on the issue continued in the classrooms," she added. "Many were irked by the fact that we are forced to enter lectures. We have listened to many lectures during our three years in Ohel Shem, and I think the only reason they were angry was because that person is a rabbi and now a secular man.

"But Rabbi Lau is a person who contributes to the community. He is an outstanding man and should be respected if only for his position and for being an honorable person, regardless of his beliefs."

And weren't you irked by the saying about marrying gentiles?

"Every person can take this sentence to a different place. The Nazis tried to hurt Judaism, and there is a point in the rabbi's remark that assimilation is a spiritual victory for the Nazis.

"The lecture was not religious in my opinion and I didn't see any incitement attempts. The word 'assimilation' was mentioned in only one sentence and the rabbi was not trying to influence us. If a secular person had said the exact same thing, it would have been received differently."

The former chief rabbi's office issued the following statement in response: "Rabbi Lau has been delivering lectures at Ramat Gan's Ohel Shem High School for many years now, and this time too he appeared before nearly 400 12th graders.
 
"The rabbi did not see any of the students leave during the lecture. On the contrary, he got the feeling that the students were attentive and fascinated by what he had to say."

As for the rabbi's remarks, his office said: "It's no secret that the number of Jews in most of the world's countries is steadily declining – not because of their immigration to Israel but because of intermarriage and assimilation. Therefore, self-examination is needed during the High Holidays.

"This troubling phenomenon serves generations of Israel's enemies, who envy the Jewish people's survival. The rabbi regrets any extreme reactions from those who surely did not listen to what he was saying and did not absorb the message stemming from the lecture."

The municipality said in response, "The Ohel Shem School encourages an open dialogue in democratic and pluralistic frameworks and hosted Rabbi Lau. Several students who were unsatisfied with certain opinions acted in a disrespectful manner and walked out, and we regret that.

"The school is unaware of the discussion reaching the classrooms, although we encourage an open dialogue as part of our values-based education."

Comments

[A. Nuran]

Quite the contrary. The whole point of many of the Nuremberg Laws was to keep Jews from marrying or having sex with Gentiles. Hitler wanted Jews to be separate. By intermarrying we are doing exactly what the Nazis most feared.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Everything with the frumma is 'another holocaust'.

They have no other topic to discuss.

[anti molesters shul]

On VIN the satmar molesters shul got burned with their t'fillin. God doesnt need molesters prayers. Wait for others to burn down as well. They have all installed cameras although Rav Elyashiv doesnt allow someone to go to the kotel on shabbos because of them. Satmar anyway have already an issur on the kosel so another one cant fall on it and therefore cameras muttar all over. God thinks otherwise and burns them down camera and all.

[hashiloni]

He is concerned about rumours of a recent psak that marrying a goya - obviously without chuppah and kidushin - is mutar bizman hazeh in chutz la'aretz, if you do it al m'nat l'gayer (preferably lifnei banim).

[OMG]

After forty years, I am starting a new introspection of my own vision. Up to now I believed that live and let live, therefore, if they want to be charedi, it’s up to them who am I to tell them how to practice their religion. Nevertheless, as far I am concerned, they declared war on me and my views, therefore, I do not have a choice but to defend what I belief in. They will never rest; the movement to right extreme is by mow obvious. I declare total war on their ideas. Enough is enough, every day I see project creep.

When did being against assassination and intermarraige become an extreme right-wing, charaidi opinion? Until recent history that was mainstream Judaism. Even non-Orthodox Jews were ashamed when their children married non-Jews.

What did he say wrong?

[Gevezener Chusid]

sorry people, the good Rabbi is right.

Yes, the Nazis originally wanted to prevent the intermarriage of Germans and Jews, but their ultimate goal became the annihilation of the Jewish people as a unique entity. This will indeed be accomplished by assimilation and intermarriage, just as surely as by murder.

WSC I wonder why you hate the fact that people remember holocaust so much? Are you sorry that Hitler wasn't more successful? But I agree with you that the HOlocaust as well as blind devotion to the Zionist entity in the holy land have replaced Judaism as the major focus of Jews, and that is unfortunate. Judaism has alot to offer the Jewish people and the world at large, and both the harping on the holocaust and the slavish devotion to "Israel right or wrong" get very much in the way of that.

[jancsipista]

Gevezener Chusid- youre truly a moron if he cares so much of intermarriage how come he never spoke about it in this way in the past all this is theatrics from rabbis who think they are infallible and perfect intermarriage will always be here with us whether he likes it or not and he would be better of minding his buisness with the hassidim who are destroying israel from within.

Jancsipista - if you need to insult in order to win you have already lost.

BTW, he has said the same thing probably hundreds of time.

The twerps who walked out lost out.

[jancsipista]

I- YOURE DOING THE SAME THING YOURE ACCUSING ME OF DOING CALLING NAMES HERE

[Waiting4Moshiach]

We need this gadol on the upper west side now! Nebech, so many Jewish girls there cannot find their beshert because he has married some yellow chineser. And don't kid yourselves, when the chinese marry a white man, nine times out of ten it is to a Yid. And the poor guy then has to support an entire town in cina, bringing them all over here and starting them up in a busienss when he should be helping out fellow yidden. I have even seen girls from good families marry colored! So please, write and pray to him to visit New York and for Hashem to send us Moshiach already!

[OMG]

Posted by: Gevezener Chusid | October 23, 2011 at 12:51 PM

A few points, in the US there are millions of Jews who intermarried and they consider themselves Jewish, obviously charediem disagree with that supposition, but like-minded people and I do not care.

Additionally, WSC did not harp on the fact that there was a holocaust, and we should remember forever, that humans have the ability to be evil and kill others for their political or religious views. What irks us that, religious zealots are trying to use the holocaust as example for their irrational and capricious religious views.

Finally, Zionism is not the core blame; it is this government, who decided to follow in the footsteps of the far-right messianic Zionist Jews, who you should blame. Your rage is directed toward the wrong party.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Gevezener Chusid, every time the Holocaust is brought up to support every position and every agenda and every pet peeve, you cheapen and degrade the Holocaust.

I remember when a carpet store in a Jewish suburb here in NJ ran a "Holocaust Sale', because they had to liquidate their entire inventory.
Or when every political disagreement results in Obama or Bush being declared as another Hitler.

How is the general population, which at best is only marginally knowledgeable about the Holocaust, supposed to take the Holocaust seriously, when the issues of today- not in the least bit worthy of comparison to one of the worst atrocities in world history- are said to be 'just like the Holocaust'?

And in response to your statement "I wonder why you hate the fact that people remember holocaust so much? Are you sorry that Hitler wasn't more successful?" my response is : Screw you, asshole.

[jancsipista]

Waiting4Moshiach- youre tottal nonsense is all in youre imagination youre blowing it way out of proportion,any meshigas that enters youre kleine kop youre spewing here, you would be better of saying that we need the gedoilem to stop all the soul killings by the molesters who are among the frum that would be a wiser statement from you, the ramblings with youre imbacile talk here.

[SkepticalYid]

Perhaps the rabbi should have enough honest and introspection to consider what it is about his way of life that drives so many Jews to leave.

[OMG]

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | October 23, 2011 at 02:13 PM

We do not need to evaluate your critical thinking abilities, when see your name, we know how insightful you are.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++SkepticalYid | October 23, 2011 at 02:21 PM++

Well said.

[Shlomo]

Nothing new here. Zionist supremacist.
Gilad Atzmon has a whole book written about these people. A must read.

[jack]

So, does this blog now promote intermarriage??

Well, well.
How the "mighty" have fallen.

[Litvish]

waiting4moshiakh wrote: I have even seen girls from good families marry colored! So please, write and pray to him to visit New York and for Hashem to send us Moshiach already!
----
Sweet heart, you are going to need more than moshiakh to get your house in order.

I suggest a hydrochloric acid enema to start things off and then we will re-evaluate.

[ultra haredi lite]

One who marries out is committing treason to Judaism. That being said, we must do a better job at inspiring our youth to embrace Judaism and its ideals. If all Judaism means is that I can't get married to my beloved shikseh then we have lost the war.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Yeah, Jack. Either you are in favor of intermarriage, or you like the mass murder of millions of Jews.
You can't understand the discussion any other way. What an idiot you are.

[WoolSilkCotton]

UHL, being Jewish is a choice. It exists in your mind. If being Jewish has been made into something unappealing, as we see today from observing the frumma velt in action, a lot of people will choose not to make it central in their lives.

If you meet someone who is kind and loving, but isn't Jewish, and Judaism is not the central focus of your life, then you marry that person. And everyone else is going to have to be ok with it.

[Bfeirush in Fartscroll]

If the goal of the holocaust was to obliterate the existence of the Jews, then a jewish man marrying a shiksa accomplishes the same end - so what exactly is offensive? Rhetoric aside, assimilation is the open end of the Holocaust.

[OMG]

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | October 23, 2011 at 03:13 PM

Touché

[WoolSilkCotton]

Everything is a Holocaust. Eating a Hebrew National hotdog is a Holocaust. Selling carpet at below wholesale prices is a Holocaust.
Being in favor of health care reform is a Holocaust. Being in favor of war against Iraq is a Holocaust. Living in Postville Iowa is a Holocaust. Not having 12 children is a Holocaust. Davening in the wrong shul is a Holocaust.

I know people who are married to people who are not Jewish. Guess what- sorry to disappoint you- but there's no Holocaust.

[Rebitzman]

You play the "Nazi" card - you lose the argument.

Always.

[WoolSilkCotton]

OMG, thanks, and A Gut Gezunt Yahr to you.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Rebitzman, good point.

If the Chief Muckety Muck of Israel can't give a talk to a group of high school students to inspire them towards the religious life- which I would think ought to be a 'no brainer' topic in a Chief Rabbi's repertoire- and instead he has to play the nazi card, then it doesn't say very much for his skills as a leader or communicator.

[Waiting4Moshiach]

We must ask "where does this happen?" Not in shul, not in a haimeshe place or later on in a kollel. It happens in those fancy Xtian colleges that Manhatten Yidden send their kids to, the ones that teach them "science" and other goyishe junk when they should be learnin torah and working in a business. It hapens in homes with the television on and where everyone is "modern" and "correct". Colleges are to this generation of jews what the gas chambers were to anothers. They are places where Jewish lives end.

[WoolSilkCotton]

I just ran out of toilet paper. It's another Holocaust.

[SkepticalYid]

Anyone who has the audacity and stupidity to call college a "gas chamber" needs to have his head examined and his mouth muzzled.

[ruthie]

omg
i wanna marry a few goys!!!!!!!!

[ruthie]

homes with the television on and where everyone is "modern" and "correct". Colleges are to this generation of jews what the gas chambers were to anothers. They are places where Jewish lives end.

wow wow wow
it sounds like you really want to go to college. you.can.you.know.

[Maple Bacon]

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | October 23, 2011 at 04:14 PM

After reading your drivel, I think I just lost 20 IQ points. Wow, what rubbish...how dare you compare colleges to the gas chambers. For my parents and me, college was a way out of poverty and a better chance at life, especially coming to this country. I may not be as religious as you but I know I have a good heart and am compassionate. And since almost always one who holds a college degree earns more, that did enable me to donate more money to frum organizations than others my age when I was frum (there are several reasons why I left the cult, but one of the main reasons is that if you're not frum from birth, you are treated differently).

By the way, HOW DARE YOU MAKE SUCH COMMENTS ON OTHER RACES, SUCH AS ASIANS!!! If I ever get a chance to meet you in person, I'd bash your teeth in. You're just an insignificant coackroach who has to attack others in order to elevate your pitiful status in society.

[SkepticalYid]

Sadly, it reflects the beliefs of a large part of that community. The irony is that they rely on the charity of college educated Jews to fund their yeshivas and kollels. It's sad to see how the RW of Orthodoxy has intellectually degenerated so much that they are in outright defiance of Rishonim such as Ramban who extolled the virtues of studying science.

[ruthie]

maple bacon
he's not worth it.
if he can compare the gas chambers to a classroom.....
omg
omg
omg
OMG

[SkepticalYid]

*typo... meant to say Rambam, not Ramban.

[Maple Bacon]

Posted by: ruthie | October 23, 2011 at 04:50 PM

It's not so much about the college comment but the racist comments that idiot made. "Yellow Chineser?!" Rather than ASSuming, people like Waiting4Moshiach should give non-whites the benefits of the doubt, because maybe these Chinese gals did convert rather than "steal away someone's bashert." And then he comments that Jewesses wind up marrying coloured men like it's a bad thing, which in biology, the more mixed a specie is the hardier it is (e.g., less likelihood the kid is going to wind up like a retarded Haredi).

This is exactly what pisses me off--frummies hiding behind the Internet to spew such filth, which they wouldn't do in public. What two-face back stabbers. If Waiting4Moshiach was attacked by anti-Semites, I don't think I'd help him.

[ruthie]

true that....
although if i could, i would still help him.
i missed that part about the yellow chineser. so stupid.
the best universities in america are FILLED with asian students.
and yeah...like...what....he's on a trief computer. he probably has a tv stashed in his closet too!

dave....if you're reading this....remember what b. said in my kitchen and what this rabbi is saying...i'm laughing.
give me a call.

[Know Em All]

Rav Lau shlit"a is 100% correct except that his potential population figures sound a bit off.

Needless to say, the commentators here could not care less about Jewish survival, and their pap is just the suicidal sound of lemmings marching off to oblivion.

Rav Lau shlit"a should be President of Israel, but he rightfully did not want the position, knowing he would be hounded by no-account kids like those who walked out on his lecture.

[OMG]

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | October 23, 2011 at 03:47 PM

Just came back from a cruise, had the time of my life. However, I missed the FM family. I wish you, your family happy, and a healthy New Year.

[who knows]

Rabbi Lau is one of the mildest and tolerant among the Haredi rabbis in regards to intermarriage and many other topics.
Don't get so worked up about him, he is the ultra moderate of the haredi camp.

[Jeff]

Colleges are to this generation of jews what the gas chambers were to anothers. They are places where Jewish lives end.

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | October 23, 2011 at 04:14 PM

As I said in the other thread, when I think about the fact that millions died horribly, but this cretin's grandparents were spared so they could ultimately produce him - any chance I might have had of believing in a benevolent deity goes right out the window.

Waiting4Moshiach - I don't think you should have to wait a moment longer. Please kill yourself immediately and go to Gan Eden to be with your beloved creator.

[Jeff]

The rabbi regrets any extreme reactions from those who surely did not listen to what he was saying and did not absorb the message stemming from the lecture."

Of course. It couldn't possibly be his fault. It's inconceivable.

"The rabbi did not see any of the students leave during the lecture. On the contrary, he got the feeling that the students were attentive and fascinated by what he had to say."

I'm sure he did.

Therefore, self-examination is needed during the High Holidays.

Once again, the irony is staggering.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Jeff, good posts.

With 'leaders' like this, there will always be the robo-frum like 5:54pm above, who can't even mention the ineffable name of his mangod without the shlit"a.

There can be no criticizing of this holy rabbi, otherwise, ya know, it's like another Holocaust.

[Jeff]

I was in the Whole Foods in Union Square the other day. They were out of carob bars.

It's a Holocaust.

[Jeff]

Oh, I just noticed this one:

Needless to say, the commentators here could not care less about Jewish survival, and their pap is just the suicidal sound of lemmings marching off to oblivion.

That's right, genius. Your entire world is self-destructing - but we're the ones rushing like lemmings off a cliff.

You people only know one tune - "You're assimilating out of existence! Your grandchildren won't be Jewish!" You've all been schrieing the same tired song for 200 years - and we're still here. Meanwhile, your communities are the ones that have lost the ability to provide for their increasing numbers.

But you keep on telling yourself how right you are, and how soon we'll all be gone and in Gehinnom, and Moshiach will come, and you and he can do a tap dance into eternity together. Why should you be forced to confront objective reality?

[WoolSilkCotton]

I would encourage all frumma to continue to smoke, drink, drive as fast as they want, eat as much fat, red meat and as few vegetables as possible, and don't get any vaccines. Never get genetic testing.

And plug as many appliances as possible into the extension cord erev Shabbos.

[Maple Bacon]

Posted by: Jeff | October 23, 2011 at 07:19 PM

LOL--indeed!

[Surak]

Waiting4Moshiach, I married a "yellow Chineser". She converted under the supervision of 2 Orthodox rabbis. She had to learn Mishneh Torah in the process. It wouldn't hurt you to learn a little basic Torah yourself. You might also look in the Talmud, where some of Chazal turn out to be converts themselves. By the way, we're both college graduates. Knowledge helps in some situations - like in empowering doctors to save your life, or creating the internet so you can demonstrate ignorance publicly.

[tommy]

"Marrying gentiles is like playing into the hands of the Nazis," Yad Vashem Council Chairman and former Chief Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau

Rabbi Lau should explain that to the Nazis.

Yes, the Nazis originally wanted to prevent the intermarriage of Germans and Jews, but their ultimate goal became the annihilation of the Jewish people as a unique entity

Their ultimate goal was the annihilation of the Jewish people WITH VIOLENCE. They certainly didn't look upon the idea of Jews contaminating Aryan bloodlines as an acceptable alternative.

When did being against assassination and intermarraige become an extreme right-wing, charaidi opinion? Until recent history that was mainstream Judaism. Even non-Orthodox Jews were ashamed when their children married non-Jews.

Since when did miscegenation become an extreme right-wing opinion? Until recently, most Europeans and Euro-Americans would have been ashamed if their children had married blacks. If surveyed, I think most Jews, including the majority of those who don't favor intermarriage with non-Jews, would argue that's racist.

It's an oft-repeated pattern in Jewish history: one part of the tribe focuses on denying exclusivity for other groups while the other part focuses on demanding it for one's own group. With individual exceptions, both sides largely tolerate and excuse the other side and this leads to the perception that Jews are basically hypocritical.

One who marries out is committing treason to Judaism. That being said, we must do a better job at inspiring our youth to embrace Judaism and its ideals.

I wish you luck. Unfortunately, in my experience, most Jews who oppose intermarriage are much more likely to hold the goy accountable for marrying a Jew than they are to hold the Jew accountable for marrying a goy. The Jewish partner tends to be treated as the innocent, gullible victim lured in by the wily shegetz or shiksa. The venom directed at the non-Jewish partner by disapproving Jews never ceases to amaze me. It's as if they honestly expected that non-Jews would enforce the precepts of Judaism on their behalf. Jews aren't good at holding their own accountable when instead given an opportunity to kick a non-Jew in the teeth.

Of course, if a non-Jew won't date or marry a Jew, then that portion of the Jewish community that doesn't oppose intermarriage swiftly declares him an antisemite.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Eva]

The Nazi goal in the Holocaust was to destroy Judaism?

So when Hitler himself said to kill, "without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language" and put 4-5 million of that ethnicity into ovens, gas chambers, and makeshift ditch-graves he was declaring a war on....cabbage rolls?

[Dave]

I have read a lot of articles about Rabbi Lau.
I personally think he's a very nice guy.
I am divorced, no kids, 53 years old. I was married briefly in 2004 to a beautiful Jewish girl, who turned out to be a paranoid schizophrenic. Both she and her family hid this "nugget of information" from me.
I am now becoming more religious/ observant, partly to console myself for probably never having kids. I am attending an Orthodox synagogue.
I am hoping to marry a Chinese girl. In my opinion, they are way more beautiful than Caucasian women. Just my opinion.
I do not expect to be able to meet any woman, Jewish or Chinese or whatever, who is interested in either having a child with me, or adopting a child with me.
I am certainly hoping that my future wife, if not Jewish, will become Jewish. I will certainly try to gently persuade her.
I have a theoretical question- if (SADLY) for whatever reason a Jew or Jewess marries a goya/ goy knowing IN ADVANCE that (SADLY) there is no question of having kids with them- does it make a difference to the tzibbur whether or not the goya/ goy converts to Judaism, given the fact that there are not going to be any kids from that marriage?? Just throwing out the question. Please feel free to reply.

[maven]

Fackenheim said similar things twenty years ago, as did many rational people. Now that we are far from the event it has become a form of humorous hyperbole, but there was a time when Jewish survival was not considered that certain a phenomenon and dialogue like this was mainstream.

[ultra haredi lite]

WSC,
Your wishing death on others is truly repugnant.

[OMG]

Posted by: ultra haredi lite | October 23, 2011 at 11:02 PM

To begin with, WSC never wished death on anybody; he was encouraging the continuation of gorging on chulent, kugel, and other high fatty and cholesterol food. We understand that this behavior will manifest in illness, but you people believe that if the Rebbe ate all the bad food than God will prevent heart attacks, and Rebbe’s knows best. Therefore, why don’t you just go and eat up whatever you could and pray that, you don’t get sick.

[Bar]

What's the big deal? Many Rabbis, and not just the Ultra-Orthodox, have been saying the same thing for years. If you want to intermarry go ahead and don't get so offended.
I'm surprised that Surak found two Orthodox Rabbis to "convert" his Chinese wife since the Orthodox don't usually do conversions for marriage. If it wasn't important to date Jewish then why is it so important now to have a "Jewish" spouse? It's absolutely ridicoulous.

[Maple Bacon]

Posted by: Bar | October 23, 2011 at 11:47 PM

Can one really help falling in love with someone who's actually compatible with them? To what I've heard/seen, it's better that a rabbi converts a future spouse rather than the Jewish partner abandoning Judaism altogether. Furthermore, I have seen "shiksas" being put through hell and several stupid tests by Orthodox rabbis in order to prove that they take Judaism seriously. Another thing, Asian cultures are more spiritual and welcoming of Jews throughout history when Jews were being persecuted. Open your mind and your heart.

There are several outstanding and inspiring converts that I know of, and they probably do more chesed and know more about living righteously than you or me.

[Dovid]

Nothing wrong in being unhappy about intermarriage, in my opinion, as long as it's from the POV of religion and not race and you ultimately don't deny others their freedom to do whatever they want.

However, the assertion that the free choice of individuals to love and marry whoever he or she chooses is comparable with the industrialized mass murder of millions of men, women and children by the Nazis is a sick comparison, the kind of thing an ignorant moron would say (or at least a person who doesn't think about what he says).

[Know Em All]

No, secular Jews have not survived and are not thriving in any way. Indeed the sad process of utter deracination seems to have taken 200 years but you are just about there now. The bagels and lox Jew of the 50s has no Jewish descendants, or his Jewish descendants bring him only tears as they join J-street or otherwise help our enemies.

You are physically here, but your Jewish identity is watered-down chicken soup, especially once you have intermarried.

The Torah world is adjusting quite nicely as our priorities change from rebuilding what Hitler YMS destroyed to becoming more of a part of general society without being swallowed up in its values and culture. Those born in freedom are learning that democracy is all about having the right to do just that and we are embracing it. Sure, we're making mistakes but no one is perfect - if we were perfect there would be no monetary or criminal law in the (Written or Oral) Torah.

Our pains are real and we do have issues, but they are the growing pains of a pride of lions that expands into uncharted territory. For every loss of one often marginal individual, we have three or four gains between people finding Torah and our birthrate ken yirbu. Not all of our losses stay lost either.

Your vapid cries are the cries of a wounded alleycat that everyone chases away - the Jews because you run away from us and often side with anti-Semites against us, and the non-Jews because they have no respect for anyone who has no pride in himself and therefore copies others.

[Jeff]

Posted by: Know Em All | October 24, 2011 at 04:52 AM

You're in deep denial, you aren't "adjusting quite nicely" and your birthrate won't save you.

But you keep telling yourself that.

[Jeff]

like in empowering doctors to save your life, or creating the internet so you can demonstrate ignorance publicly.

Posted by: Surak | October 23, 2011 at 08:15 PM

My nephew, who is in Chabad, used to tell me that the life purpose of a Jewish male is to study "Toyreh". Nothing else matters. I once pointed out to him that most of the doctors his beloved teachers went to were probably Jews, and he readily admitted that all of them were. I asked him what they'd be doing if all of these men had chosen lives of impoverished Torah study instead, and subsequently there were far fewer doctors, all of them gentiles.

Of course, he had no answer. He never has, when I point out the contradictions in what they teach him.

There's a Torah education for you.

[Jeff]

And, Know Em All, this speaks to your assertion as well:

http://tinyurl.com/6bd9n3e

[WoolSilkCotton]

UHL, everything I said at 7:52 has been claimed, at one point or another, by frumma as being mandated by the Torah, such as not eating vegetables because of fear of insects.
If you are insisting that the frumma start eating healthier, in contradiction to their own claims that the Torah prohibits it, or that the Torah mandates eating lots of red meat, than you are another Hitler, because Hitler also wanted to prevent Jews from obeying the Torah.

You, ultra haredi lite, are another Hitler causing another Holocaust.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Know Em All, most third world backward nations also have huge population rates, and it's been going on for many years, but they haven't taken anything over yet, either. They just wallow in their own drek, with increasing misery and increasing need as their population numbers increase.

Maybe you could ask Bono to sponsor a concert for Frumma Aid.

[WoolSilkCotton]

And why does this Chief Rabbi look just like Kris Kringle from Miracle on 34th Street?
Is he not, in fact, a plant by the world-wide antisemitic conspiracy, which has succeeded in putting none other than Santa Claus himself as the Chief Rabbi of Israel?

[Shmarya Fails Again]

Please. Lowlife molestors are everywhere. It is an illness for which the only cure is castration.

They only stand out in our world because what they do is so against what we stand for.

In ancient Greece, for instance, their behavior was considered completely respectable. Secular Jews of today are the heirs of ancient Greece, the misyovnim of old, who will be gone and forgotten while real Judaism finally becomes the only available variety.

We are not wallowing in drek - you who post your drek here are. We are expanding and having to modify old social patterns - we'll survive and grow better without universal kollel than we did with it.

And you won't survive at all as Jews. Your children will be of Jewish descent the way some Americans are of Italian, Irish, or whatever origin that is so mixed they hardly care anymore except that they have a few family recipes from Napoli or County Cork.

Jeff, you are a classic. You are jealous of your Chabad nephew because you don't have the discipline to commit to the Torah way. So, you mock him and use a few out of context anecdotes to justify your loserism.

We wish we could reach all of you, but I am realistic - whatever Hashem's plan is for the world, it does not seem to include a return of every Jew before Moshiach comes.

Some secular Jews were led astray by the erev rav, whereas others are of the erev rav. It looks like everyone is sorting themselves out, one group by returning and the other by running away and mocking.

[Rachel2]

All rabbonim, Meir Kahane & everyone who ever took a stand against intermarriage this is 100% correct. Aside from all halacha, the products of these unions live in Hell on this earth, and when marrying the cycle continues. What's really kinda sad is Jewish women kvetch they cant find a suitable guy & accept a goy who works full time and thinks she's a Queen, Jewish men kvetch and demand their women look like goyas but think and raise the kids like rebbitzens. The world has done a real number on the Jewish mind & we continue to believe if we can just mingle and remold ourselves enough to look-think-act like goyim, all the tsouris will go away. We never left Germany/Poland/the shtetl.

[ultra haredi lite]

WSC,
Your murderous intent was very clear.

[Jeff]

They only stand out in our world because what they do is so against what we stand for.

Yes, they stand right out. That's the reason it's taken decades to expose them.

Of course, the fact that nearly all of the important rebbaim in your world do circus tricks to protect them has nothing to do with it.

Jeff, you are a classic. You are jealous of your Chabad nephew because you don't have the discipline to commit to the Torah way. So, you mock him and use a few out of context anecdotes to justify your loserism.

Yes, that's it. You've caught me out. I long to believe the sun revolves around the earth and wear black woolen suits in the summer.

One of us is a classic. I don't think it's me.

And you won't survive at all as Jews. Your children will be of Jewish descent the way some Americans are of Italian, Irish, or whatever origin that is so mixed they hardly care anymore except that they have a few family recipes from Napoli or County Cork.

For two hundred years, over and over, like a broken record, you people have been hocking this same line - yet here we are. How that must gall you.

[Jeff]

Meanwhile, for those of you who still think this is another Holocaust, Professor Black has something he wants to explain to you:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-12-2010/back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s

[WoolSilkCotton]

http://www.santahollywood.com/
photogallery/KrisKringle.JPG

[OMG]

Posted by: Rachel2 | October 24, 2011 at 09:32 AM

It is self evident that your imagination is in overdrive. Real life is not about trying to suppress the inquisitive human nature. From time immemorial, normal people who have a family strive to help their offspring having a better life than they had. This human trait is what makes humans a special species. Not God nor Torah or the New Testaments will make you a better person. It is what is ingrained in your DNA as human, which makes the normal person do the right thing.

On the other hand, your environment could have a devastating effect, if you live in a community, which thrives on handouts, without the ability to earn a honest living, in a few generations the offspring will do nothing but steal and cheat to get by.

Finally, if you want to keep your brain a prisoner yesteryears shtetl good for you, we left the shtetl a long time ago.

[Jeff]

Posted by: WoolSilkCotton | October 24, 2011 at 10:49 AM

Well, he does encourage children to sit on his lap...

[Jeff]

Aside from all halacha, the products of these unions live in Hell on this earth

Yes, it's too bad they can't live the euphoric lives of Haredi women - twelve children before the age of forty, worn out by fifty from having to raise them and support their husbands.

Pure bliss.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Rachel2,you have never actually met someone who wasn't totally frum like you.
You are still mentally and physically in the shtetl.
You have never met anyone who married someone of another religion, much less another race, or [gasp!!] the same sex.
And so you rant on with the same drek you hear in shul or wherever ghetto girls like you hang out all day to have fantasies about life on the other side of the barbed wire.

[WoolSilkCotton]

++The world has done a real number on the Jewish mind ++

No, it's the rabbis who have done a real number on your mind, brainwashing you into a life of paranoia, insecurity, anger, fear and loathing of the whole world.

[Shmuel]

If a nazi said "marrying a jew is destroying the aryan race" we would condemn him

sometimes it seems the more religious a jew is, the more similar to a nazi. That's a shame and the main reason why our numbers decline....

[anuran]

Let's look at the cold, hard pitiless facts.

Jews need intermarriage.

When a community is so disgracefully inbred routine genetic counseling is necessary you have fucked up badly. When "dates" are largely a way of letting the kids sniff each other long enough to make sure there is a tiny bit of genetic diversity lurking in the union you are well on the way to tribal suicide.

The best thing that could happen to Jews as a people would be invasions by the Zulu, the Apache and the Mongols and an outbreak of yidophilia among the San and Khoi (who have the greatest genetic variety of any ethnicity)

[Know Em All]

I made it clear that the process of complete disappearance takes about 100-150 years. That is where we are right now.

You are here today, but you'll be gone (or, for a handful, frum) tomorrow.

The few secular "Jews" left will be misfit OTD's combined with a few relics who hold on to some New Age nonsense offshoot of Judaism but are halachically Jewish.

Conservative is gone. Reform exists only because of patrilineal descent which is in essence accepting non-Jews who won't care after the next generation intermarries again. That will leave a majority of frum Jews of all stripes versus a small and powerless squawking class of "alternative" Jews.

Sadly, the majority of Jews will just be people of mixed Jewish descent, lost once and for all - unless they were actually erev rav going way back.

Genetically, all you need is what is happening in Israel now - Ashkenazim, who have a more serious genetic issue, marrying Jews from the Middle East and North Africa. The major problems are in small communities where there is little new blood and among secular Jews who don't even bother with genetic testing until after the fact.

[WoolSilkCotton]

Know Em All, you sound like a graduate of the Eichmann School of Jewish Genetics.

Frumma like yourself really are not much different than yesterday's nazis.

[Jeff]

He must lull himself to sleep at night with that crap: "Soon they'll all be gone... "

[Captain Obvious]

Not sure where to go with this one. While I certainly believe that the Rabbi's comparison was extreme, I do feel that it is important to recognize the importance of marrying another Jew rather than assimilating. Granted, this is only important if you are proud of your heritage and mindful of (some) tradition. I cannot imagine that whoever was in charge of this school was unaware of the Rabbi's religious affiliation. Therefor, his stance on assimilation should not have come as a shock to anyone. The analogy was way out of line though.

[western jew]

The problem I see with intermarriage is that when you get to the world to come, there is no total capacity for you to be completely with the one you have "married" in this world. This is becuase the place for jews and gentiles in the world to come is not completely in sync with one another. If you are jewish, you are a highly regarded soul in the world to come of course. The non jews are regarded with good esteem but they are not the same as a jewish soul. So if you intermarry and your partner does not convert, you will not totally be present with one another in the way you might wish to exist in the entire world of the future. Of course, I could be wrong, but this is likely the scenario. So dont intermarry and if you intermarry, have your partner convert and then remarry.
And of course, intermarriage creates evil in this world. So there are just too many reasons not to intermarry.

[anuran]

western jew, that's only if you believe the poisonous lies that have grown up over the centuries. Goyim don't have souls like Jews do. Goyim are all murderers who would rather fuck our donkeys than their own women. Goyim are naturally our slaves. And so on from *spit* Tanya on down.

How do you know what happens after we die? Who told you? Who told him? How did that guy know?

[Russian PhD]

You need to think about the fact that in any secular Israeli classroom you will find at least one student from the mix family, with Jewish and non-Jewish parents or grandparents, mostly due to the immigration from the former USSR. You need be therefore careful with strong remarks like this. I myself come from the mix house, with Jewish mother and non-Jewish father. I would not be happy to hear that my mother is actually an ally of the Nazis

[Captain Obvious]

Russian PhD-

No one disagrees. Well, almost no one. However, you do not invite someone like R' Lau to speak about tolerance for intermarriage. The school never should have invited him.

[Russian PhD]

Captain,
I do not expect R Lau to tolerate intermarriage. However, you need to chouse right words, and actually R Lau does know to do it. I just said that for some people between these that listened to him it would like to say that you father or mother like Nazis. I think it why some of them left. I personally respect R Lau and would forgive him this non-smart and not-typical for him expression. However, when you 16-18 you more impulsive.

[Deremes]

++western jew, that's only if you believe the poisonous lies that have grown up over the centuries. Goyim don't have souls like Jews do. Goyim are all murderers who would rather fuck our donkeys than their own women. Goyim are naturally our slaves. And so on from *spit* Tanya on down.

How do you know what happens after we die? Who told you? Who told him? How did that guy know?

Posted by: anuran | October 24, 2011 at 02:21 PM++

That is one big lie.
In the last thousand years all the Jews who were murdered were actually murdered by Jews themselves.
Talk about the big lie of the Holocaust were the Jews claim that the goyim killed six million Jews,the Holocaust is a hoax made up by Jewish liars.

[Waiting4Moshiach]

Every goya who steels a Jewish boy from us makes the neshama of a Jewish woman on the upper west side cry, especially these new yellow ones working on wall street and yes I have met some! They are like those old roach motels to our people, Jews go in and think they are going to get a snack but then they get stuck there and spiritually die. Yidden need to be aware of all threats, not just from arabs or the dark ones.

[Dan O.]

1. I'm a Jew from an intermarried family. I survived middle school, not a holocaust.

2. My parents didn't forbid intermarriage (duh). My friends' parents did. Guess who married the nice Jewish girl? Hint: Not the guy whose balls were kept in Momma's purse.

3. My mum is from Ramat Gan, so I have a personal connection here.

4. That Mum of mine served in the IDF. I don't think they conscripted Nazi collaborators.

[Dave]

Interesting that NO ONE has addressed my question on Oct.23 9:16 p.m.
I am still waiting. Anyone??

[Maple Bacon]

Posted by: Waiting4Moshiach | October 24, 2011 at 04:11 PM

Wow, you really are a hateful bastard. As the expression goes: it takes two to tango, so the Jewish partner is also as much to blame.

I'm a single female, and it's hard to find a good quality (religious) Jewish guy in my area because the religious ones I know aren't educated in secular studies and surprisingly not even in Torah (seriously, I'm curious to know what they really do at yeshiva), and they can't hold down a steady job but want me to be a stay-at-home mom to raise a traditional family. How can I do that when literally both of us aren't working and there are children to feed, bills to pay and along with a mortgage (yes, I'm single and own my own house in an Orthodox neighbourhood)?! I was raised secular, but even I knew back then to never steal, cheat nor lie...not from another fellow Jew or non-Jew.

Since my escape from your cult, I've been working with shadchens to only date non-frum Jews, and may I say that they are quite pleasing to the eye and actually have a personality.

[Jeff]

If you are jewish, you are a highly regarded soul in the world to come of course. The non jews are regarded with good esteem but they are not the same as a jewish soul. So if you intermarry and your partner does not convert, you will not totally be present with one another in the way you might wish to exist in the entire world of the future. Of course, I could be wrong, but this is likely the scenario.

Posted by: western jew | October 24, 2011 at 01:57 PM

It's also possible that the holy rebbaim who fed you this horse puckey didn't know what the hell they were talking about, but I don't suppose that's even remotely on the table.

[Jeff]

Talk about the big lie of the Holocaust were the Jews claim that the goyim killed six million Jews,the Holocaust is a hoax made up by Jewish liars.

Posted by: Deremes | October 24, 2011 at 03:58 PM

You really are an irredeemable piece of garbage. There is absolutely no reason for you to be alive. You're a colossal waste of natural resources.

Shmarya, it's your call, of course, but if I were you, I'd ban this piece of shit.

[Shmuel]

Dan O. I have almost the same story here, a Jew from an intermarried family, I was never forced anything, now almost marrying a jewsish girl.
What about my jewish friends from religious families? almost all are practical atheists and one of them is now actually a buddhist

religious people are the ones killing judaism, not goya

and Waiting4Moshiach, please, fuck you racist, you're a true nazi

[OMG]

Posted by: Jeff | October 24, 2011 at 04:49 PM

Not that I think he is funny but, Deremes, is ultra orthodox, and pulling your legs, I doubt that he understands the sensitivity associated with the Holocaust. They do not know much about the holocaust only what they hear from their families. There are zero curriculums on this subject. It took me a few times to get used to his sense of humor.

[Rachel2]

The joy of posting is that none of these migraines writing here have a clue about me or my life. I walked away from CH, put myself thru university & was a professional working for 25+ yrs. The bochur I married sued me for child support while collecting food stamps & medicaid & his parents bought him 2 homes. My CH shadchen couldnt find a normal mentsch willing to marry a convert, I could have stayed on welfare w my kids inside CH, unfortunately my converted background left me on the CH perimeter for 15 yrs-we ARE products living in Hell, so anyone of you, haredi or otherwise thinking its racism driving the call for Jews to remain w Jews are talking out of ur arses-it is an imperative, but I've stated that before & say it again, as it comes solely from experience. And I say it as a halachically converted Jew, but does my status mean anything in reality to mainstream Jewish men? Nope, aint got no yechus, moolah and now little patience for loafers and whiners. MapleBacon, I hope you find the prince you deserve and I mean that.

[WoolSilkCotton]

According to the story, Rabbi Santa Claus was asked to speak to the students who had returned from a trip to Poland, which I can only assume included visits to Auschwitz and/or other places involving the Holocaust, such as the Warsaw Ghetto.

The topic was supposed to be his own remembrances of the Holocaust, and lessons for today's young generation. Such a talk should be a no-brainer for a chief rabbi who has probably given such talks many times.
Instead, he decided to steer the topic to intermarriage and being less religious, and how that's just like another Holocaust, blah blah blah.

So he took an excellent opportunity to make an emotional and spiritual connection with kids who had just returned from a moving experience, and who no doubt had concerns such as 'how could God have let this happen', 'how can survivors still be religious', etc. and he turned it into an opportunity to wag his finger and scold them, and compare them to Nazis if they didn't do as he said.

And that's why Rabbi Santa is a piece of drek.