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September 20, 2011

Haredi Rabbi Stands Next To Israeli War Memorial And Accuses Zionists Of Planning The Holocaust

Shtreiml "They set up the Holocaust, they helped the Germans with the Holocaust because they wanted to establish a state here, they said ‘So a few more Jews will die, but we’ll have a reason to deserve a state.’ But we [haredim] are in Israel long before Herzl, Ben Gurion and Jabotinsky – we are here for generations.”

   

Israel's Channel 10 reported that a haredi high school rebbe, Rabbi Reuven Sokolover, took his class to an Israeli war memorial and lectured them about the evils of Zionism and the State of Israel next to the graves of fallen Israeli soldiers.

According to Kikar Shabbat, one of the false claims Sokolover made is that the Zionists "set up" the Holocaust:

"They set up the Holocaust, they helped the Germans with the Holocaust because they wanted to establish a state here, they said ‘So a few more Jews will die, but we’ll have a reason to deserve a state.’ But we [haredim] are in Israel before, Ben Gurion, before Herzl, Jabotinsky – we are here for generations.”

Sokolover's yeshiva apparently gets a lot of money from the state.

Here's Channel 10's full report.

[Hat Tips: Burich, Joel Katz.]

Comments

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wow this is their perception of the holocaust then i say they are tottaly gone insane now i am sure they should be commited into a lunatic asylem theese hareidis, they are beyond the pale.

Interesting that Rabbi Reuven Sokolover should say such a true bold statement since supposedly his yeshiva gets money from the government.Which means that he is not really ultra anti-Zionist.Because the many many yeshivas who refuse to take money are staunch anti-Zionist.

I wonder why the Charedim don't refuse to accept money from the evil Zionist entity?

He has a point.

Read the book "Perfidy".

Perfidy on FM is like the color red to a bull.

Read the ten questions that the saint Rabbi Weissmandel wrote after the war and you will faint:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbi_quotes/weissmandl.cfm

deremes=it shows how contredictory theese rebbes are they contradict themselfs a sign of insanity.

Posted by: Deremes | September 20, 2011 at 04:37 PM

Deremes,

That link shocked me. I've read about it before, but to see it said so plainly is truly shocking.

What is written after the questions, though, I believe comes from the present day NK, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

I would hope that a crowd of secular Jews, who had loved ones who lost their lives in the Holocaust and/or gave their lives in defense of Israel, would beat him to a pulp in front of his students.

Interesting that Rabbi Reuven Sokolover should say such a true bold statement

Posted by: Deremes | September 20, 2011 at 04:24 PM

You really are the most unspeakable piece of barely human filth.

Nope,Guest. He wrote the entire page you see there,perhaps you don't like all that he wrote but that was him z'tl

deremes- so you think that what sokolver said is true? if you do youre realy truley evil.

this stupid rabbi is a disgrace to the world
and a very sick man

jancsipista, I don't think anything.
Its not me or you its part of history and no one denies it.
The Zionist leaders of that time made no secret about their position that they don't have much interest in saving Jews becuase to get a state after the war is far more important.

Der Emmes was the name of the Yiddish daily in the Soviet Union. It was the Yiddish equivalent of Pravda, the organ of the Communist Party. Fiercely anti-Zionist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Emes

Isn't history great?

Well, the sad part is that he is saying the truth. I don't know that they set up the holocaust but it is well known that the Zionists in Israel at the time sabotaged rescue efforts & some may even have gone as far as to assist the Nazis in convincing Jews to go to the concentration camps. Read the book "Perfidy" which had the Israeli government going to great lengths to prevent its dissemination.

dersheker- as i wrote youre crazier then crazyand youre stupider then stupid to really for a second think that the zionists had that much control over the natzis and other thing just as many nonreligious jews died maybee more then religious as i wrote it is beyond evil to think in such a way it shows this suckolover guys true makeup lower then drek.

Perfidy aside,a book which has questionable accuracy...it's quite true that Weitzman and Ben Gurion were documented as being indifferent to the fate of Eastern European Jews.

Litvish,

Actually, our poster here made a typographical error. He meant to sign himself Der Sheker.

He has a point.

Read the book "Perfidy".

Posted by: Guest | September 20, 2011 at 04:33 PM

perfidy is a book of fiction,

in addition all evidence that he brings has been debunked by historians the only people who still cling to it as real history
is

Aryan nation
Nazis
Neo nazis
antisemitic people
heridiem

what do all these groups have in common.

they hate Jews

SkepticalYid- anyone who thinks that a small nobody like the zionists at that time 1944 would make a difference in saving many jews is deluding themself world powers toghether barely beat the germans its a joke to think what ben gurion or weitzman tought when its a no brainer they had as much chance to do anything about the holocaust as a snowballs chance in hell its insane.

Posted by: jancsipista | September 20, 2011 at 05:12 PM

interesting


haw many Jews could have left but followed the satmar rebbie and other hedeie rebbies and stayed and where murdered in concentration camps thousands

but satmar is a hero

again my point

herdeim hate jews

Seymour, How about the 1,000 Irgun members the early zionists killed in cold blood, Is that fiction too?

Seymour, How about the 1,000 Irgun members the early zionists killed in cold blood, Is that fiction too?

Posted by: True Zionist | September 20, 2011 at 05:17 PM

I will investigate and get back to you

need details who killed them where and so on

Deremes, I am perplex we went round and round on this issue, I was hoping that you will see the other side’s POV and stop disseminating this blood libel, but, now I see once you are brainwashed it takes lots of therapy to can back to a healthy state of mind.

seymour- we have many times discussed this before withthe likes of dersheker they just keep repeating the same crap over and over a zillion times they just cant face facts its too complicated for them they cant think critically and their hate is so intense that it tottaly blinds them to rational thinking they wat to beleive with all their heart that the zionists and the nonreligious jews are the cause of all their misery its never them who are bringing the hate on themselfs its always others they are the angels and everyone else is the devil this is their sick thinking, as the saying goes we have met the enemy and the enemy is us theese hassidim who all their lifes repeat all the lies about the zionists make others hate us jews they see them ans say why should we not hate them if they hate themselfs.

In the late 1930's the Polish legislature had placed restrictions on Shechita so as to make it uneconomic. It became a concern to the Hareidi leadership that other Eastern European countries might follow Poland's example and they would lose their main source of income.

The Hareidim therefore organised the Holocaust as a means to stop the banning of shechita. You only need to see how the Hareidim bring up the holocaust whenever shechita is criticized to see their motives.

Deremes, don't you think it a bit suspicious that the Weissmandls are deeply involved in the most barbaric extreme of the shechita?

You only need to recall that a century ago the Hareidi leadership in Jerusalem banned Jews from seeking medical treatment so as not to lose their kickbacks from the Chevra Kadisha even when this resulted in an 80% child mortality to know the depth that these Hareidi Rabbi will sink to.

Whilst the Hareidim were happy to have the Nazis invade Poland, the non-Hareidi Poles (both Christians and Jews) were not. However these Poles plans were sabotaged by the Hareidim who embezzled so much money from the Polish treasury by means of Spinka type tax evasion and Satmar type welfare fraud, that there was nothing left for Poland to pay for an effective army.

Posted by: seymour | September 20, 2011 at 05:17 PM

You full of crap.

The Satmar rebbe and other rebbies who told their followers not to leave was becuase they were all lost and didn't really know what to tell people if they should or shouldn't flee. So for some they told to leave and some not to leave is was a daily change of situation.
But they didn't tell not to leave in cold blood so it will benefit them if Jews would be killed,you dope,seymour
However,the Jewish agency with its leaders Chaim Wietzman,Ben Gorion,Sally Mayer and the rest purposely did not save Jews so to further their agenda.

Posted by: Barry | September 20, 2011 at 05:31 PM

You are definitely delusional; there is zero historical evidence to substantiate your outlandish claims.

OMG,
Sorry but i must leave now.

But funny im not the only one saying it. You have here some more posters that said it and i suppose they are not anti-Zionist so why you all ganging up

whatever the truth is about the degree to which some of the early zionist leaders were somewhat partial to non-haredim, they were right and justified.
they were quite prescient in realizing that the non-religious socialists were looking to build a country through hard work. they were prepared to fight in an army. and they were going to be the backbone of a society in which people were free to choose their level of religious adherence.
they correctly anticipated that backwards, uneducated shtetlites would contribute nothing to any country. they wouldnt produce doctors, engineers, lawmakers, soldiers, or electricians. they would instead DEMAND special treatment, live off of others work, and then have the audacity to tell the rest of israel how they must live so as not to offend the haredim.
so if indeed ben-gurion, weitzman or others said theyd rather save 1000 non-religious jews who wanted to emigrate to israel as builders rather than 2000 haredim, i applaud them.
also, the haredim refused to join the world zionist congress, and entry to palestine was granted to groups according to their ratio of votes. since haredim mostly boycotted and in fact urged the world to reject the zionists aspirations, they should have expected to be last in line when they needed some of the limited slots available.

dersheker- youre thinking is so perverted that you need help to be so sick as to think the way you do is beyond stupid or evil i cant say the word what kind of inhuman insane sicko you are.

Posted by: Barry | September 20, 2011 at 05:31 PM

Superb job.

PLEASE write some more i will sleep at night with a smile while reading your stuff.

Barry,A Freilichen Purim and don't drive.

Posted by: Deremes | September 20, 2011 at 05:34 PM

interestingly all the rebbies who told their chassdeim to stay managed to get there own ass out of the country some with the help of Zionist that the satmar ingrate could not thank afterwards

the satmar rebbie tore up people passport so they could not leave

or said better to die here then to go to USa or isreasl

funny that did not apply to them

Barry: nicely put. This "Zionists approved of/supported/desired the Holocaust" thing is as insane as any other form of Holocaust denial. Like those other forms, it's a sort of mystical hatred and there's no point in making rational arguments against someone immune to logic.

None the less, for what it's worth, my family was saved because of the negotiations Yisroel (Rezső or Rudolf) Kasztner was carrying out with Eichmann Y"Sh. May Hashem remember R' Yisroel ben Yitzchok for good, among the other tzaddikim of the world.

if i had a gun, i would shoot this man.

'Nuff said

From the Holocaust Survivors Encyclopedia:
"Ben-Gurion's attitude toward European Jewry during the Holocaust has been the subject of controversy. As one of the leaders of the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Palestine) Ben-Gurion's actions appear to have been based on the conviction that the Yishuv would not be able to rescue many Jews from the Nazis. In conflict with many members of his own political party, he opposed broad-based rescue programs and public demonstrations."

Posted by: Deremes | September 20, 2011 at 05:34 PM

You wrote, “The Satmar rebbe and other rebbies who told their followers not to leave was becuase (sic) they were all lost and didn't really know what to tell people if they should or shouldn't flee. So for some they told to leave and some not to leave is was a daily change of situation.”
I do believe that you are revising history. My understanding that he and other Rebbe's because they were against the Zionist view, they instructed their people not to move to the Yishuv, additionally if he did not understand the day to day politics and that dark clouds are on the horizon, than he should never give advice for people who seek it.

I clicked on to this story and thought I had accidentally clicked on a Aryan web site. This is one sick dude.

I do not see anything wrong with the quote attributed to Weitzman. Indeed if you had an ability to save some people who should save, in my view it is always the ones who you expect to do more for society after the war. I will challenge any Satmar, or Lubavitcher Chasid, if it was up to them exclusively to save either their Rebbe or 2000 Dr. Weitzman’s who would they select. Without a doubt they will say their Rebbe, so what is the issue. Dr. Weitzman understood in the end, there would be only a limited amount of people they could save. and in his view the Charediem were on the bottom of the list. I salute his view and willingness to make the tough decision.

As someone who grew up with Hasidic & Ultra as a youth, I heard this from THE CHILDREN. In Satmar they indoctrinated the children & adolescents that the ZIONISTS = HOLOCAUST.

Many children grew up believing even when they were older teenagers, that the camps were manned by the mishtara, & IDF.

This is very sick.

@OMG: You're correct. Additionally, Yoilish Teitelbaum bribed the provincial governor years to expel all the Bnei Akiva Chalutzim several years earlier.

Deremes, you just said it yourself..."I don't think anything."

Meaning you don't think, you just repeat what someone else says. Knowing this, it is not worth arguing with you.

If the correct command and control structure is established the chances of another holocaust happening will be eliminated. There were a multitude of reasons for the founding of the State of Israel. It is part of the divine jigsaw puzzle. It is not perfect just as every other nation on earth is not perfect at this time. But it has many merit points. It is a key player in the World Peace 2050 mission.

Who could possibly believe that some Jews would sacrifice others to satisfy a certain political agenda ?

Posted by: Flatbusher | September 20, 2011 at 09:31 PM

Yes, they were indoctrinated that Holocaust was a direct responds from God because of Zionism, but nobody ever believed or claimed that the camps were under the control or operated by the mishtara, or IDF.

This issue will never be settled. To the Yoilish Kroiz's of the Eda Charedis, Perfidy is gospel, to Shmaarya Rosenberg it is anything but.
There are so many questions that history may never answer.
1. What really happened at the Altalena?
2. Where there Zionist leaders who really felt that it was worth it to sacrifice some Jews for the sake of a State?
3. Did a Jewish clergyman influence the US President to look away from what was befalling millions of Jews?
4. Were there Jewish organizations that had tens of millions of dollars stashed away, but refused to help save millions?
5. What was the Israeli governments role in the Yaldei Teheran affair?
These, and so many more troubling unanswered questions, will continue to divide our people for a long time.

The book you all should read is "The Transfer Agreement" by Edwin Black. It is well researched and presents the evidence impartially.

Posted by: ultra haredi lite | September 20, 2011 at 11:22 PM

Noting what you mentioned has any legs to it. let me try to refute than.


1. What really happened at the Altalena?
Altalena, a Jewish ship on which the country’s prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, ordered his army to fire shortly after he declared independence, in 1948.
The Irgun, a right-wing Zionist faction led by Menachem Begin, controlled the ship. The Altalena was bringing weapons from Europe to rearm the militia. When Ben-Gurion, then head of the provisional government, demanded that Begin and the Irgun hand over these arms, insisting there could be only one single armed force in the new state, Begin refused, and Ben-Gurion attacked the ship as it neared Israel’s shore. Basically in my view you cannot have two competing army’s, it would lead to a civil war ala south and the north in the U.S.

2. Where there Zionist leaders who really felt that it was worth it to sacrifice some Jews for the sake of a State?
No, the question the Zionist leadership had to answer was, it was self-evident that lots of people are going to die either as solders in the war itself, or in the camps, and only a very small amount of people could and would be saved. As any leader who makes a decision he will try to save people who could rebuild the Jewish community after the war. If the shoe would have been on the Charediem’s feet, I bet you they would never try to save even one Zionist, before they saved every Charedi, if then.

3. Did a Jewish clergyman influence the US President to look away from what was befalling millions of Jews?
Give me more specifics, but you need to understand, that during that time, the US gave up on trying rescuing our own solders in the Philippines, Burma and I could recite countless battles and surrender which led directly to atrocities, like the Bataan death march. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers died as POW in Japan. Nevertheless, President Roosevelt was resolute, that Hitler must be defeated first, and more than 90% of the forces and armament when to fight Hitler not Japan.

4. Were there Jewish organizations that had tens of millions of dollars stashed away, but refused to help save millions?
First, they did not have millions available. However, the issue was never about money, the Nazis didn’t request money. In mid 1944, the Nazis demanded the following items for the release of the remainder of the Hungarian Jewry, approximately 900-400K people, ten thousand, winterized military transport trucks for the SS. Additionally; they requested two hundred tons of tea, two hundred tons of coffee, and two million cases of soap. Now stop for second and use your brains. From where would the Jews get the trucks? Who would produce them and how would they ship it to Germany. You need to understand the Nazis were convinced that the Jews control the world, in their twisted mind they erroneously believed that the Jew could force the US to produce the trucks and the commodities to send it to them. Mind you at that time, in late 1944 the battle of the bulge was center stage. Moreover, our allies and we were losing tens of thousands of soldiers and you think for one second that US should give the Nazis armament to facilitate the prolongment of the war, no way.

5. What was the Israeli governments role in the Yaldei Teheran affair?
These, and so many more troubling unanswered questions, will continue to divide our people for a long time.
Frankly, I do not care; it is irrelevant to our discussion, vis-à-vis Zionism and the Holocaust.

Deremes

For the history of the Shechita industry collaboration with the Nazis I would highly recommend you read Dr Fachadick's book 'The Unheeded Moo'.

Posted by: OMG | September 21, 2011 at 12:25 AM


you can qoute bring ecvedence all you want

to deremes and others all that, matters is what yoile said nothing no facts nothing will change there minds and no amount of evidence will put ant doubt of the greatness and holiness of yoile.


he is and was like a god to them and cannot err on any issues

at least the beltzer said later in live he made a mistake and cost thousands of people to die by telling them not to leave

the satmar never said that, even thou he was indirectly responsible for thousands of deaths

What's the difference bewteen the Zionists not wanting to save Eastern European Jews, and Chabad not wanting to save East African Jews (Ethiopians)?

AN, I think I asked you this before - how do you insert a picture into a Typepad comment? I've tried and I can't do it.

OMG,
Your answers are shaky at best.

Guest,

The answer is simple, the Eastern European Jews did not save themselves when they could have done so because they did not think they needed saving. Only when it became impossible for them to save themselves did they realize that they needed saving.

Life can be a bitch.

OMG,
Your answers are shaky at best.
Posted by: ultra haredi lite | September 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM

I am not interested in commentary, if you have evidence to the contrary, by all means lay it out on the table and we will debate. Otherwise your original questions where rhetorical, and a means to make a point. Stop hiding behind your views and start debating, I am waiting for your retort. If you don’t take on the endeavor, Seymour will be proven right, no amount of facts will change your mind.

Hayab Metah

Posted by: Barry | September 21, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Stupid answer, I must say.

Posted by: Guest | September 21, 2011 at 09:20 AM

You wrote "What's the difference bewteen (sic) the Zionists not wanting to save Eastern European Jews, and Chabad not wanting to save East African Jews (Ethiopians)?"

You are a history revisionist; the Zionists did not have the means to save the European Jews. Inasmuch Chabad has the resources but not the desire.

Barry:
L'chaim,l'chaim. Give me some of it.What is it jack daniels or Vodka?

seymour,
You keep on repeating the same shit lies on a daily basis.

Lets go one by one:
Haredim hate Jews you say.

Define "Jew" and define "heradi"?

Posted by: OMG | September 21, 2011 at 12:22 PM

You're the history revisionist. The Zionists did not want the Eastern European Jews, and they could have saved them.

Especially the Hungarians in 1944. (the Satmar)


Go back and read the comments on this thread.

It's hard to swallow. But it's true.

Posted by: OMG | September 20, 2011 at 09:24 PM

Dont you say in this comment that yes they could of but refused for the reason you gave? so whats the argument

Deremes and Zionists have one thing in common--neither wants to believe the other's evidence.

Many of the Zionist leaders distrusted frum Jews. They saved Jews, especially Jewish children, in order to make them Zionist. To the Zionist socialist religion was/is the opiate of the masses. I have met children brought to Eretz Yisroel from religious homes who were forbidden to observe kashrus and Shabbos.

There were also religious Jews forcing the non-religious to become frum.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Would you know when to leave your country? How would you leave, and where would you go?

I believe that the holocaust occurred because of seenas cheenam. Jews categorized themselves and others into types. Therefore, Hashem sent people to kill us in order to reminds us that we are all brothers and sisters: religious, non-religious and totally assimilated.

Unfortunately, we have not learned the lessons of the holocaust.

Posted by: Guest | September 21, 2011 at 01:02 PM

You are not a revisionist you are just plan stupid. If you go back in my previous post, I debunked your claim. I wrote the following, in an answer to the following question by ultra haredi lite

“4. Were there Jewish organizations that had tens of millions of dollars stashed away, but refused to help save millions?

First, they did not have millions available. However, the issue was never about money, the Nazis didn’t request money. In mid 1944, the Nazis demanded the following items for the release of the remainder of the Hungarian Jewry, approximately 900-400K people, ten thousand, winterized military transport trucks for the SS. Additionally; they requested two hundred tons of tea, two hundred tons of coffee, and two million cases of soap. Now stop for second and use your brains. From where would the Jews get the trucks? Who would produce them and how would they ship it to Germany. You need to understand the Nazis were convinced that the Jews control the world, in their twisted mind they erroneously believed that the Jew could force the US to produce the trucks and the commodities to send it to them. Mind you at that time, in late 1944 the battle of the bulge was center stage. Moreover, our allies and we were losing tens of thousands of soldiers and you think for one second that US should give the Nazis armament to facilitate the prolongment of the war, no way.”

Nevertheless, you fail to even try, to argue the merits of your views, forget about dispelling my logical and historical argument. That is why you are an idiot, you think we are brain death and we do not remember or notice that you did not choose the path of debate, just throwing dirty nappies at us.

Posted by: Deremes | September 21, 2011 at 01:18 PM

No, I did not say that, I premise my argument on the fact, that the world Jewry was never able to get the trucks and commodities demanded by the Nazi. My next part of the argument was, even if we assume that the Jews were able to get and ship the requested ransom demand. Mind you, that previously I cited to you, that in 1944, it took more than six months of total war production in the US to produce 10,000 winterized trucks, the US would not allow the items to be shipped. I know we discussed this event more than on one occasion, and I do understand your views are because since you are a child you were only exposed to your view without any countervailing point of views. Therefore, you are partial to what you were brainwashed with.

There is an international fundraiser being established for the purpose of expanding Hell. Apparently this past decade saw an extraordinary huge influx and they are running out of room. Please contribute generously so that worthy individuals are not left homeless.

Sincerely,
P.L. and N.L.

- Ben Gurion ordered the sinking of the Atalena because he wanted to save his fledgling socialist zionist state from a right wing fascist state. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
- The Transfer Agreement - handshakes between nazis and zionists to get jews out of Germany, to become zionist fodder; while paying Germany transfer gelt, but screw blood money, unimportant oestjuden, and the religious (and ps I am anti-charedi, but historically honest)
- And what about bikur cholim, and tezedaka, and Golda telling Poland to keep all your sick, old, unskilled Jews.
PHEH! you can't clean up a filthy diaper until you admit you crapped your pants. Stop being a hypocrite!

Posted by: FrumButSentient | September 21, 2011 at 08:09 PM

Why don’t you read the specifics of the transfer agreement? Maybe you will have a better understanding if that helped rescue Jews from German, the facts speaks for themselves; tens of thousands of Jews took advantage of this agreement and left Germany. Additionally, the agreement goes to heart of the claim that the Zionist did not want to rescue Jews, this proves the opposite that they were ready and indeed dealt with the Nazis to rescue Jews as much as possible. On the other hand, the rightwing Revisionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky was totally against any deal with the Germans, he only wanted to fight them. See link below
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Black.html

to: OMG

1 - you only were saved if you were a Yeke, a rich well-connected yeke. No problem here saving thousands of jews. but it was "relativey" little - not even 100,00 as I recall - against 6 million. Yes, every life counts. But the Transfer Agreement gave Hitler more CAPITAL to help fund the war effort and Ben-Gurion promised to, and did "fight the British as though I was a German and fight the Germans as though I was a Briton"

2 - And your comments on having to choose in Israel between living in a fascist right wing theocracy and a zionist/socialist-democrat left wing state? What ever happened to the "regular" democracy Israel was supposed to become?

3 - And your comments on Golda spitting on all the Jews East of the Elbe?

Cowards and Apologists, the lot of you.


Posted by: FrumButSentient | September 21, 2011 at 10:28 PM

Sometimes, it is so easy to see what an imbecile you are, your problem is that you never studied history. Maybe you read history, but you never applied the disciplines needed. The transfer agreement was signed in August 1933; at that point, only Jews in Germany were at risk, therefore, they needed exit visas, and the ability to transfer their money out of Germany as they leave. Therefore, the leftwing of the Zionist movement was willing to sign the deal, to help tens of thousands of German Jews who were at risk. The other European Jewry was ensnared later, as the transfer agreement was not utilized anymore, as everyone knows, the Nazis invaded Poland in September 1939, but the fact is that from 1933-1939 more than 55,000 Jews left Germany with some of their money. Any idiot who was against the transfer deal, would agree that with hind side, that deal did help some people to leave the Germany.

Regarding your argument that the “Transfer Agreement gave Hitler more capital to help fund the war effort” if you concluded that in 1933 people who made the decision to sign the agreement helped fund the war in 1939, you are foolish. Additionally, you just agreed with my argument that in 1944 when the Nazis proposed a deal in exchange for almost a million Hungarian Jews, they wanted 10,000 trucks and the commodities mentioned above. That even if the Jews were able to get the ransom that would help the war effort. So you agree with my view.

You continue babbling, you wrote that “Ben-Gurion promised to, and did "fight the British as though I was a German and fight the Germans as though I was a Briton" you are purposely misquoting Ben Gurion and to add insult to injury, you take out of context what he said. In September 1939, at the outset of World War II, the Jewish Agency rejected the heavily pro-Arab 1939 White Paper emphatically, branding it as a total repudiation of Balfour and Mandate obligations. That is when Ben-Gurion, declared: “We shall fight the war against Hitler as if there were no White Paper, and we shall fight the White Paper as if there were no war.” Ben-Gurion’s statement of 1939 set the tone for Jewish Agency policy and operations during World War II.

Your next barb at me was something about a democracy, we are talking history, the historical fact is that the left was the majority and in every democracy majority rules. Therefore, I agreed with Ben-Gurion’s action to eliminate the threat of civil war, he had to destroy the ship and its weapons, and if it would have been the other way around I would say the same.

FrumButSentinent

In the late 1930's the Hungarian/Romanian Admorim were finding that their income from Shechita was declining as even in Romania, Jews were becoming more secular. They were however aware that the largest community of Jews were in Poland and that if they could poach the shechita business from Polish Rabbinate, their income would be secured.

Accordingly they paid very heavy bribes to Polish legislators who in 1939 passed a law forbidding the sale of kosher meat to non-Jews. This would of course make it impossible to get rid of the back end of slaughtered cattle and make kosher meat very expensive. The Hungerian Admorim expected the Polish rabbinate to recommend that Jews now import their meat from Hungary thereby expanding the coffers of the Hungerian shechita business. However the Polish rabbinate did not react as the Hungerians expected. The Polish Rabbinate reminded their followers that Hungarian Jews have a Chazakah of Mamzerus and that it is better to eat porged non glatt meat from a Polish shochet than glatt meat from an Hungarian.

The Hungarian Admorim were infuriated, not so much about being described as mamzerim but rather because they had paid out such a large bribe to the Polish legislators. Reb Yoelish then paskened that anyone eating porged meat is chayev missah. He then went and met Hitler and Stalin and suggested they end their rivaly to arrange the destruction of Poland's Jews

Later on, Hitler broke his agreement with Stalin and invaded the Soviet Union. Stalin was furious with Reb Yolish who he blamed for getting him to side with Hitler in 1939. Reb Yoelish now knew he had to get Hitler to win the war to avoid Stalin's vengeful anger. However the USA had joined the war effort and were bombing Germany remorselessly while Germany could not bomb the US back in turn. Germany faced defeat. Reb Yoelish suggested to Hitler that he send a submarine filled with poison gas up the Hudson and destroy New York. Hitler adopted the idea, however the plan foundered when the propeller of the submarine got entangled in the rezu'os (straps) of teffilins that American Maskilim had thrown into the Hudson when admitted into the USA half a century earlier. Hitler was furious and wanted to kill Reb Yoelish until Eichmanm pointed out to him that Reb Yoelish himself should be spared as he could do more damage left alive by being sent to the US to found a Satmar community which would reap a greater destruction on New York then than all the bombs dropped by the Allies on Germany.

Hitler asked Eichmann what Reb Yoelish should do when in the US. Reb Yoelish suggested he could continue in the shechita industry. Hitler pointed out that the US might try to restrict shechita in the same way as the Poles. Reb Yoelish suggested to Hitler, that if he proceeded to exterminate Hungary's Jews than people would feel sorry for the Jews and not intervene in shechita.

And that is how reb Yoelish destroyed Polish and Hungarian Jewry, tried to destroy American Jewry and whose legacy is today doing Hitlers work.

Posted by: Barry | September 22, 2011 at 08:45 AM

Not even funny

Its not meant to be funny. It is meant to be as obnoxious and offensive. Maybe it will teach Deremes, Guest and their ilk that it is wrong to make up facts to defame the dead even if your belief system requires you to.

Posted by: Barry | September 22, 2011 at 11:04 AM

I thought we are better, and we stand for the truth, regardless of who is exposed.

Barry, Haredim and evangelicals are immune to irony.

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