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August 01, 2011


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Adam Neira

To Emmylou,

Thank you for your kind words. I am like a cactus in the desert. A little bit of chesed rain keeps me going for ages. You would be surprised at how many people are actual survivors whothout them even knowing they are so. The vast majority of people are unaware that they are unaware. The more you heal the higher you go on the mountain. It's a tricky but ultimately liberating path. The fascinating thing is that we are all on the same road together. The healing model is the one that should underpin all political, economic and social models of today and the coming decades. The best approximation to the healing model encapsulated in song is the wonderful track from the dark days of 1942 WWII America. Johnny Mercer's "Accentuate the Positive." If you have time listen to the lyrics.

So much wisdom !



You say that "In Judaism, forgiveness is only possible if the abuser asks for forgiveness, repents, and makes restitution."

Outside of Judaism, that is not the case. I am what you might call an atheist or an agnostic, and I am a former Christian, because I was brought up that way, and a I am also a real Jew, because my mom was. I oppose your view that "forgiveness" is based upon repentance of the stance of the perpetrator of such.

It is beneficial to the soul to forgive. It is especially beneficial to the soul to forgive without stipulations on the part of the perpetrator.

Adam is an abuse survivor. Please give him the respect that he is due as such, and give credence to his words.

Adam Neira


Adam Neira

To Batyah,

You are correct. If your house is robbed if you instantly jump to forgiveness you miss out on the powerful, empowering emotion of anger.

As P.I.L. sang in the early 1990's...

"Anger is an energy"

The healing path can take many twists and turns. Repressed anger can lead to illness, disease and self harm. Musdirected anger can lead to the harming of others. When a good military outfit carries out a strike on their enemies it is important for them to calibrate their attacks. One must pinpoint exactly source of one's anger.

The problem with the case above is that there would have been other perpetrators of abuse in the children's lives who will get off scot free. At least G-d will catch up with them.

There really must be a hierarchy of righteous people presiding over affairs in Jerusalem.


Adam, I disagree that the abused must forgive in order to heal. That is just a psychobabble myth with no basis in truth or reality. Furthermore as you must know, in Judaism, forgiveness is only possible if the abuser asks for forgiveness, repents, and makes restitution. Even then, the abused has the right to withold forgiveness. Please don't fall for the nonsense propaganda pushed by mental health gurus.

As to the article - wow, the haredim and hasidim are really sinking to unimaginable lows. I am so glad I'm Modern O - yes we have our problems but we are connected to the world so there are a few checks and balances, at least.

Adam Neira

Gee I wonder why certain groups are doing everything in their power to stop Moshiach coming to Jerusalem ?

How rotten to the core are certain groups ?

Who is afraid of the truth ?

Who has got something to hide ?

This applies to all tribes whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim etc. The word and the law can go forth from Jerusalem but some people are doing all they can to silence, control, marginalise and control the voice. The divine narrative is going to prevail.

People must realise that without spiritual power a nation or place is nothing. It doesn't matter how powerful your army is, how many spies you have, how big your bank balance is. Without righteousness in your midst you are next to nothing.


(Poor kids. They will be hurt for life. If they ever manage to lead normal lives it will be pretty miraculous.)

Such a shame. If you use the statistic that one child get abused every 10 seconds that means that over the course of a year some 3 million kids are affected - a staggering number - more than 1/3 the population of New York City.

Again, from childhelp.org In 2009, approximately 3.3 million child abuse reports and allegations were made involving an estimated 6 million children.



Skeptical - They will likely accuse the evil secular Israeli govt of trying to beat up on the holy Chareidim.

And before you know it 101-year-old R' Elyashiv and other geriatric "gedolim" will be signing letters supporting these monsters.

Let the craziness begin.

(Poor kids. They will be hurt for life. If they ever manage to lead normal lives it will be pretty miraculous.)


Just wait and see.. the protests and riots demanding the release of these "innocent" men are inevitable.


Why people abuse the innocent children I just can't understand. I just read a story that sickened me.

Ame Deal, Arizona girl suffocates to death after being put in box over Popsicle, family charged

BY Aliyah Shahid

Four adults have been charged in the brutal killing of a 10-year-old family member who was stuffed a locked storage container as punishment for taking a Popsicle out of the freezer, police said.

Initially, authorities declared Ame Deal was a "death unknown," after her family said she had died accidentally while playing hide-and-seek with other children in her Phoenix home.

On Thursday, her death was ruled a homicide after detectives found a pattern of horrifying abuse, including forcing the little girl to eat dog feces, making her sleep on the shower floor and forcing her to exercise barefoot outside in the blistering heat.

Cops said Ame was routinely put in the locked box, which was less than 3 feet long, 14 inches wide and about a foot deep, as punishment.

Her final offense before her death was deciding to take a Popsicle without permission, police said.

The little girl's cousins John and Samantha Allen, both 23, confessed to locking her in the box the day she died. They have been charged with first-degree murder.

Ame's aunt and legal guardian, Cynthia Stolzmann, 44, and her grandmother Judith Deal, 62, told authorities they previously punished her by placing her in the box. The two face child abuse and kidnapping charges.

Investigators said Ame, just 59 pounds, was found dirty and wearing soiled clothes.

"This child died at the hands of those who were supposed to love and care for her," Sgt. Trent Crump, a spokesman for Phoenix police, told Reuters. "This case has turned the stomachs of some of the most seasoned detectives."

What also upsets me are these frightening statistics:

A report of child abuse is made every ten seconds. Childhelp.org

Almost five children die every day as a result of child abuse. More than three out of four are under the age of 4. Childhelp.org

It is estimated that between 60-85% of child fatalities due to maltreatment are not recorded as such on death certificates. Childhelp.org

Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 34%. Angelfire.com

As for cause of death, 44% of deaths resulted from neglect, 51% from physical abuse, and 5% from a combination of neglectful and physically abusive parenting. Approximately 41% of these deaths occurred to children known to child protective service agencies as current or prior clients. Angelfire.com


The Charedi Community unfortunately is sitting on the time bomb of organized fraud, led by the so called 'leaders' & Chassidic Rebbes.

How are they dealing with it? Close the internet. Ostrich like. So THEIR people won't find out.

They don't realize that the old days when "Jewish News" (i.e. internal dirty laundry; fraud, pedophilia; etc. ) was aired in the "mikveh" ... and stayed there, are over.

Pictures.. were not allowed by the Chassidishe Rebbes @ 40 years ago (today they kill for their picture being in their papers... to their might) and those were saved in plastic sheets in albums... today a picture goes around the world and back seen potentially by millions in 24 hours.... INCLUDING THEIR OWN PEOPLE, despite the internet being outlawed by the Chinese Communist Charedi equivalent.

Example: When the Munkacher "Rebbe" stole millions 30+ years ago, there was a hearing in the US Senate, led by Senator Nash, perhaps videotaped for Sentate history, but it was buried in the paper, after he PROMISED to pay back MOST of the money. He could still cry on demand and present himself as a tzaddik to his benighted people.

When the Spinker Weiss did 10% of the Munkacher/ Rabinowitz fraud 30 years later.. millions saw the pictures, read the reports, (censoring does not work anymore) and he is doing hard time, in a green uniform.

His Biggest punishment: Is there any clear thinking normal individual who thinks he can affect change bashumayim? That he is NOT a crook , and he is only sorry... that he was caught? Is there a bigger CHILULL HASHEM around? Hence the abuse of children, as corruption is like a cancer: may start small but if not cut out, kills the whole organism.

End of story. Beginning of the End Of Daya.


Some of the young children don't even know that they are doing wrong. If the rebbe tells them it is just a game, then it is ok

The point isn't what the children believe, it's what the adult believes. And if this adult is in a position of authority and "respect", then the entire system is broken.

Community or religious leaders should be the FIRST to comdemn this behaviour, not looking for loopholes in a two thousand year old book (or any religious tract of whichever origin) to justify it or cover it up.

An adult should know instinctively that this kind of behaviour is abhorrent.

Ratioinal and civilized people should understand the above two paragraphs reguardless of religious or culturial background.


the child does not know. At 5-6yo i had no idea this is wrong. I only mentioned it to my parents the way kids tell everything, fortunately they spoke with the abuser and his parents and that was the end. Still i have been completely screwed up over this my entire life.Only recently, since being on this site actually, have i gotten clear insight to this issue how it has affected me in relationships with both males and females.

Bas Melech

Some of the young children don't even know that they are doing wrong. If the rebbe tells them it is just a game, then it is ok


Maybe this is why certain Rabbis want things like this to be reported to them, and not the police. They need to make sure that all the perps have their dues paid up, and are members in good standing.

If not, THEN they get reported to the police.

After all, you can't have people just doing this stuff out of season, or without a proper license.


remove the penis and shred it.

so there is raglayim ledavar. oy.

Posted by: Adams

agreed-if a child molester knew he would lose his penis when caught, then they would probably stop-but, then people would call it cruel and unusual punishment, blah blah.-i would like to do that to every rapist also.


btw some of these monsters record the events and distribute the films to other monsters, perhaps they can check into that as well.

Jus' Sayin'

What is Ultra-Orthodox about child abuse.
The title is ridiculous.




yekke- it is a shame and a sign of the problem that you need to add that disclaimer.
A 67 year old, I wonder if it is Ben Zion Sobel...


remove the penis and shred it.

so there is raglayim ledavar. oy.


remove their penises.
without painkilling medication.

sarcastic yekke

I hope that whoever turned them in asked a Shaila first from a Knowlegdable rov with experience and expertise in these kinds of matters as per the directions of Zweibel and Shafran in order to clarify if there were Raglaim Ledavar. The aforementioned was stated tounge in cheek.


Will they be demanding kosher food in jail?


The victims range of age were 5 to 10 years old.they appeared to be a law unto themselves. and operated in secrecy. Never leave a child unsupervised with a priest deacon or rabbi


yeah but group thing is even worse. the kids may be completely screwed for life.
Therapy can get them to fuction but inside there is a pain that can take decades to unravel. and by then so many mistakes have been made by the victim.

I make a distinction between abuse of a 6yo by a 9yo and these cases where it's a adult.

It doesn't help the victim much but maybe a little to forgive the abuser since he is so young also.

I beleive the abused may need to forgive the abuser on some level so the abused can heal.

I can see forgiving the 9yo to some extent as he is only a kid also, but how to forgive an adult is much harder.


Religious communities are dangerous places for children.


And "Morris the Katz" referes to this as a "witch hunt".

The problem of course with his absurd analogy is that there are actual pedophiles in our community and until we as a community start reporting them directly to the police this problem will fester.


What should a human say I do not know where to start?


it doesnt surprise me they theese hassidim thrive on insanity their whole life is so robotisized that they go haywire and commit unspeakable crimes against someone who is like them in the way that they are helpless, children are very vulnarable helpless so they kill their souls by doing theese horrific crimes against them to prove to themself they are powerfull its like the aztecs they killed their own to feel strong and powerful


do not worry for them the community will finally around them maybe protest and turn over cars for them

what they really want to know who is the evil , disgusting vile person who told the police.

that person meeds to be hunt down like an animal and killed before he does more harm to the frum community


Just sick.

They should be castrated.


they where teaching the Torah and the secular have the chuzpha to call it indecent assault and sodomy for shame


It just never ends...


OMG, not much shocks me anymore.

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