Neturei Karta Head Invites Guests To Come To Wedding In "Mea Shearim, Palestine"

The first Jewish neighborhood built outside the Old City in West Jerusalem is identified on a wedding invitation from Neteuri Karta's leader as "Mea Shearim, Palestine."

[Hat Tip: Burich.]

Comments

[moshy]

the are not jewish the chipah is 7 pm after shabbas starts and the couple will have sex durring shabbas the day

[Joe in Australia]

I'd be more impressed if they held it in Ramallah.

[Nicole]

Its such a shame Jewish people have to behave in such an inhumae way, Israel was founded to protect all Jews when the world wanted us dead and still does. If they would only look at the situation from a practical view and value their children and grandchildren Im quite sure they would not act so ignorant. (if the arabs have things their way there would be a Palestine WITH NO JEWS IN IT)

[Hersh Man]

Abbas will be mesader kedushin and chamas will be taking all the blessings (curses)

[anti defamation gal]

They are also going to Arafat's (YM"S) grave to invite him for the wedding, as is the custom. His Charred spirit will be hovering over the Chupah.

[Garnel Ironheart]

Build a wall around Mea Shearim. Cut off the water and electricity. Let them stew in their little ghetto by themselves.

[Alter Kocker]

A perfect opportunity to round them up and de-program them. Neturei Karta should be viewed as a cult, and not as Judaism.

[Krotzy the Klown]

NK are media whores. If you don't like what they're doing, you should stop giving them press, which is what they're really after.

[Gevezener Chusid]

the are not jewish the chipah is 7 pm after shabbas starts and the couple will have sex durring shabbas the day

WRONG.... 7:00 is according to "Yerushalayim time", which is 2:00 pm. European time.

I don't know what the history of that is, but there is a discussion here http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/2008q2/007270.html

[Yosef ben Matitya]

i wonder if the p.a. is delivering the mail !
or maybe it's delivered by chassidic cossaks on horseback well, they got the hat for that!

[facts]

since we live in a democracy and there is no MESIRAH in a democracy according to the thug shmaryah, IT IS PERMISSABLE TO CALL THE IRS AND BE MASSER ON SMMARYA AND CLAIM HE DOES NOT DECLARE ALL OF HIS INCOME.

If it is not true, no problem, no issur.

shmaryah go the hetter from the herschel schlachter and pope mordechai willig who gave boruch lanner a clean slate for child molestation and only apologized when the OU was about to be closed down by the authorities.

[Mike Powers]

So will they pay their income taxes to the Palestinian state or this a hetter to cheat on those Holy people too ?

[OMG]

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 11:37 AM

So right in front of millions of witnesses you decided to lie about Shmarya tax payments, and you think that you are doing God’s work. Nevertheless, your action proves that you are nothing but a fanatical tug, which detestation to the freedoms enshrined in our Constitutions, permeates in every word you wrote. People like you are noting but evil. All your prayers and outward appearance is nothing but a shame, we all know you are rotten to the core.

[Yosef ben Matitya]

it's impressive they use loshon hakeuydesh in the invitation otherwise considered a no-no by them.
also, equally impressive all of europe is considered as 1 time zone!
they must mean western europe excluding the uk.
but what with kiryas yowell clock?

[facts]

Shmarya, you really need to take me up on the anger management psychiatric offer. You really need it badly. You are really deteriorating buddy, quite badly.

How do you think all the men whose wives masser on them with al sorts of false allegations feel? You are such a hypochrite, saying its okay to masser on people. You are lucky I don't hold like you, but there will be others less scrupulous than me and totally unconnected to me who will masser on you, because le'shitoscho it is muttar.

No go and f-off you mamzer. learn what it is like to be the victim of mesirah before shooting your tochos off.

[steve]

Instead of K'Das Moshe V'Yisrael it will be K'Das Arafat V'PLO. May they be zoiche to build a bayis lo ne'eman b'palestine (Arafatistan).

[ah-pee-chorus]

facts -

are you so morally blind that you cant distinguish between reporting a crime to the authorities versus making a false claim against someone? nobody claims that its OK to do the latter.

[facts]

well what do you think these women do? are you really so dumb?

I know of caes where men have been accused of assaulting there own children when they have either been out the country or were prevented by court order from seeing thse children?

1)just let's clarify is this mesirah or not according to you?
2)secondly if a woman who does make false claims and this is proved, is she entitled to a get. answer questions please

1 simple questions for you. no if's buts just a

[Stan]

Why do the Israelis put up w/ these bastards? I just dont get it

[Sruli]

Whereelse is Meah Shearim? It is a Jewish shtetl in Palestine and it will be long after the destruction of the Zionist entity, beesras Hashem.

[ah-pee-chorus]

well what do you think these women do? are you really so dumb?

i think some women (and some men) make up false claims to further their own agenda. "are you really so dumb" that you dont realize that anyone who would do this, thus bearing false witness against another, wouldnt be deterred by a prohibition against mesirah. having a shita against all mesirah doesnt prevent this, it only prevents good and honest people from reporting actual crimes, and permits child molesters to abuse additional kids.

so.....

1. it is lying and it is wrong.

2. every woman and every man should be afforded the same rights to a get. but this has nothing to do with mesirah.

[Guest]

Why are we so upset at the Neturai Karta for believing that Jerusalem is Palestine. All good leftists believe that way. Our own President believes it. These people are at least not being two-faced like Obama, and so they're willing to say it out loud.

These people live their convictions, and should be commended for it.

[george]

The following claims to be a 1940's version of a wedding invitation from the same district (yet I cannot find that name on the invitation)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PALESTINE-1940s-MEA-SHEARIM-RABBI-WEDDING-INVITATION-/110336194213

[george]

That should read:

The following claims to be a 1940's version of a wedding invitation from the same district (yet I cannot find the name Palestine on the invitation)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PALESTINE-1940s-MEA-SHEARIM-RABBI-WEDDING-INVITATION-/110336194213

[who knows]

These people live their convictions, and should be commended for it.

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 12:41 PM

Rarely could I see a finer example of false logic then your statement above.
Why should anybody commend NK people for living their convictions any more then commend nazis, or drug barons, or child molesters, or rapists, or thieves living their convictions? If the convictions are abhorrent so are the people living them. Expecially if these people are true believers in the nasty convictions.

[george]

Interesting set of comments at

http://matzav.com/hirsch-invitation-invites-yidden-to-wedding-in-meah-shearim-palestine

I had also wondered the same thing as comment #4, and the comment about the kethuba leads me to wonder if (assuming they used the name Palestine there too) the kethubah might even be void and the couple would then be forbidden to be alone together under the same roof.

[PishPosh]

I would like to think that Jews with access to tear gas would lobby some into the wedding festivities since they so support gassing for the rest of Israel.

[seymour]

mr fact

you analogy that sometimes there are false claims therefore one should never report

it like some people who say i do not wear a set belt because in .001 percent it is better off if one does not wear a set belt

both of you are very smart

also if you think so many are false one should not report a gentile either

do you agree

[OMG]

seymour

Seat belt.

[Guest]

These people live their convictions, and should be commended for it.

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 12:41 PM

Rarely could I see a finer example of false logic then your statement above.
Why should anybody commend NK people for living their convictions any more then commend nazis, or drug barons, or child molesters, or rapists, or thieves living their convictions? If the convictions are abhorrent so are the people living them. Expecially if these people are true believers in the nasty convictions.

Posted by: who knows | August 30, 2011 at 02:03 PM

Who knows,

What is so abhorrent about their convictions? How can you compare these convictions to Nazis and child molesters. These convictions are held by most of the world, the entire Arab and Muslim world, the lefties of our country, the Jewish lefties in Israel, and our own great President Obama. They all believe that Jerusalem is part of Palestine. Are you comparing our own great President Obama to Nazis and child molesters?

Obama and many others are two faced about it. They proclaim to AIPAC one thing, and then enact policies that are the opposite.

At least the Neturai Karta live their lives based on their convictions (convictions that are, once again, the same as our own great President Obama.)

[Yochanan Lavie]

The NK are not well educated. Maybe they thought the wedding invitations said "Palace Time." (/humor)

[george]

Guest

One supposes that publicly hugging and kissing and supporting that Hitler-wannabe in Iran (and Hamas et al) is sufficient justification to compare them to those they support.

[jancsipista]

guest-theese netureis are freeloaders living of others hard earned money they are the lowest of the low in fact they dont even count as human beings, what in the world are tgey trying to prove, do they think they can turn back history by denying israels existance or they keep repeating for the destruction of israel as we know it today arethey this deluded everything their whole existance is a hulicination fantasy they do everything to deny reality, in short they are mentally very very disturbed.

[No Light]

What's wrong 'Facts'? Are you worried about something coming to light, something you've done to someone?

The only people, in my experience, who throw around crap, about all women accusing men falsely of rape and child abuse, are the abusers themselves.

A tiny minority of abuse claims are false. There are secular and religious laws about giving false information, and it won't stop the false claims. What these rules actually do is scare legitimate victims, who usually have some evil scumbag whispering "Nobody will believe you anyway" in their ears.

Evil.

[Guest]

George,

You have no idea if the person who sent out this invitation hugged the Hitler-wannabe in Iran. The very small minority of netura Karta who go to Iran are just that - a very small minority.

The rest of the Neturai Karta number in the hundreds of families (thousands of people) who for sixty years have never accepted the state of Israel, have never taken a dime from the State of Israel, not in welfare, and not for their schools, and won't even touch Israeli money. They live their lives in Meah Shearim, a corner of the world that you will never see, they never bothered you nor anyone else, and don't want anyone else to come and bother them. They live their convictions, and therefore will put on their wedding invitations that Jerusalem is in Palestine, not expecting it to make it to the media like FM, and probably not even knowing that the internet exists.

And yes, at least they live their convictions, unlike our own great President who will proclaim to AIPAC (before the election) that he believes Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel and then change his mind the next day.

As for those twenty people who kiss and hug the Hitler wannabe in Iran, they are despicable people and I do not refer to them. They give all Neturai Karta a bad name, just as Hareidis give all Jews a bad name.

[OMG]

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 02:38 PM

You projecting your idiocy for all to see, your argument doesn’t have a coherent or logical conclusion and for sure it is not funny. You running your mouth like a gerbil on a wheel, we don’t know if you are running away from something, or running toward some place. Nevertheless, one thing we know for sure, you running your mouth like a gerbil.

[Guest]

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 02:38 PM

You projecting your idiocy for all to see, your argument doesn’t have a coherent or logical conclusion and for sure it is not funny. You running your mouth like a gerbil on a wheel, we don’t know if you are running away from something, or running toward some place. Nevertheless, one thing we know for sure, you running your mouth like a gerbil.

Posted by: OMG | August 30, 2011 at 03:12 PM

Mr. OMG,

I will repost my original comment, which was my original coherent and logical conclusion. I hope your IQ is high enough that you will grasp it. Here it is:

Why are we so upset at the Neturai Karta for believing that Jerusalem is Palestine. All good leftists believe that way. Our own President believes it. These people are at least not being two-faced like Obama, and so they're willing to say it out loud.

These people live their convictions, and should be commended for it.

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 12:41 PM

[ah-pee-chorus]

unlike our own great President who will proclaim to AIPAC (before the election) that he believes Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel and then change his mind the next day.Posted by: Guest

its the same thing done by every president of the USA for over 30 years. havent you figured out the game yet? promise undivided , promise to move embassy, and then take office and get realistic about the problems involved and keep the status quo. if you think this is specific to obama you are ignorant.

[Guest]

Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | August 30, 2011 at 03:20 PM

My point wasn't to bash Obama specifically. My point was that the Neturai Karta writing on their wedding invitation that Jerusalem is in Palestine is no different that implied US policy. It is no different than the US State Department refusing to write on US passports that Jerusalem is in Israel. (I only mentioned Obama because you all love him)

So why are we ganging up on Neturai Karta. Implied US policy is the same as Neturai Karta beliefs.

The only difference is that the US tries to make believe that they are not taking sides and that they do not "really" believe that Jerusalem is Palestine.

The Neturai Karta, on the other hand, are not two-faced. They say it, they mean it, and they live it. Kudos to them for not being two-faced.

[David]

Will they be inviting suicide bombers as well?

[Guest]

The Neturai Karta never accepted the State of Israel, way before Arafat invented the suicide bombers. They've been calling Jerusalem "Palestine" way before the State of Israel was born. They never changed; the world around them changed. And they never accepted the change around them. It is their right to hold on to their core beliefs, as long as they don't bother anyone else. Writing Palestine on their wedding invitation should not bother anyone else.

(As for those who go to Iran, they are a small radical minority in Neturai Karta, they are despicable, and I do not refer to them)

[OMG]

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 03:16 PM

To begin with, Palestine was never an independent State, and as of this moment, the nations of the world do not recognize Palestine as an independent state. Furthermore, in every group you will find some extremes who believe that Jews does not have the right to a homeland. On the far left and right of the spectrum the crazies will agree on this point. Inasmuch as your claim about the President's views, you don’t know what you are talking about you just like to repeat what you hear from either the rightwing talk, or in the Mikvah. One thing is for sure, as we have people in the political sphere who would claim that Jews don’t have a right to self determination, we have Jews and idiots like you, and the NK who align themselves with people who hate Jews.

[ah-pee-chorus]

the Neturai Karta writing on their wedding invitation that Jerusalem is in Palestine is no different that implied US policy.

yes it is. the US doesnt want to imply that all of jerusalem being under israeli control is a foregone conclusion. they want the issue decided as part of a comprehensive agreement between the involved parties. NK doesnt want there to be ANY israel under jewish rule and are too stupid to understand the implications of that to all jews in israel AND the rest of the world. NK is also evil in promoting hatred and violence towards other jews.

no US pres. wants israel to cease to exist. NK does. they deserve the same respect for not being two faced as ahmadinejad, hitler and any others who are as clear as to their goals. stop your idiocy.

[Guest]

NK (as a whole) does NOT want any Jew to get hurt. As Shmarya reported before, they wrote in Sidur a prayer for the dissolution of the state of Israel in a way that no Jew gets hurt. (A bit naive, but in no way do they want Jews to get hurt.) Again, I do not refer to the very small minority that goes to Iran and promotes violence against Jews and Israel. I refer to the vast majority of NK who do not go to the media, do not promote violence, and keep their beleifs between themselves, their community and G-d. The extent of their activism vis a vis the State of Israel is that they pray to their G-d that there should not be a State of Israel, but rather a peaceful and loving State of Palestine that will be safe for its Jewish citizens. They also write on their wedding invitations that Jerusalem is in Palestine. They also don't take a dime from the Israeli government. Should we not commend them for that? That they are not parasites, unlike the rest of the Hareidi world??

The US State Department, on the other hand, and the extreme lefties in this country, are pro-Arab. Their policies are to make the Arabs stronger, which will ultimately lead to the destruction of the State of Israel.

Which is more dangerous? The US State Department's policies that will make Israel's enemies stronger? Or the vast majority of Neturai Karta who pray to their G-d (which you don't believ exists in the first place)

As for Palestine, the Land of Israel has been called "Palestine" for hundreds of years. In fact, The Jerusalem Post was originally called The Palestine Post. So again, the NK haven't changed. The world around them changed, and they refuse to go along with the change, and aslong as they don't bother anyone, they have every right to. If writing Palestine on their private wedding invitation bothers you...... oh well.

I don't support Neturai Karta. However, I don't see the huge difference between their personal beliefs which don't bother anyone, and those of the US government which will have a negative affect on Israel's security.

Again, I do not refer to the lunatics that go to Iran. They are a small minority.

[Hoboe Pyckoe]

I guess I saved a $52- gift check or a plate from The Yellow Door

[facts]

Firstly I see that the idiot and utter hpochrite Shmaryah has not answered my questions so I will assume silence is consent. Even according to the reform YU thugs at yu.edu, this is mesirah.

As for the baloney that one should not report that very few complaints are proven to be false 0.01 (percent) firstly, how do you know this? Secondly in divorce situations I have no doubt that the percentage is more like 80% so until you can prove your assertions they are just your false claims thats all.

Bottom line is many men are accused falsely in divorce situations and the halochoh and issur remains in a democracy, theoracy, meritocracy etc ettc

A WOMAN IN ARKO'OYS IS OYVER MESIRAH AND IS WELCOME TO MARRY IN EITHER THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OR IN SHIA MOSQUE.

[facts]

I DEMAND THAT SHMARYA WHO IS ALWAYS ACCUSING CHAREIDIM OF WRONGDOING TO AGREE TO HAVE HIS FINANCIALS AUDITED BY AN INDEPENDENT AUDITOR WITHIN 30 DAYS TO PROVE THAT HE IS SNOW WHITE AS HE CLAIMS.

FAILING THAT HE HAS ALREADY PASKENED THAT MESIRAH IS MUTTAR SO I GUESS WE CAN FIND A YU'NIK WILLING TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY UNCLE SAM AND REPORT HIM TO THE IRS FOR TAX EVASION. MAYBE HERSCHEL OR WILLIG WILL DO THE REPORTING TO CONFORM WITH DINA DE'MACHUTA DINA.

[seymour]

FAILING THAT HE HAS ALREADY PASKENED THAT MESIRAH IS MUTTAR SO I GUESS WE CAN FIND A YU'NIK WILLING TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY UNCLE SAM AND REPORT HIM TO THE IRS FOR TAX EVASION. MAYBE HERSCHEL OR WILLIG WILL DO THE REPORTING TO CONFORM WITH DINA DE'MACHUTA DINA.

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 04:28 PM

reporting a man who molest children is different than reporting someone who evades some taxes

maybe that does not get through your thick skull

BTW there are many poskin who say report is not only permitted but a requirement when it comes to child molestation

to bad that your community has recently been in the news the last few years because of fraud, scams. molestation issues shattering the myth that your community is pure and crime free.

And I am only talking about Brooklyn if you include KJ and Skver multiply that exponentially since those communities only exists on fraud alone

PS your community does not need people to meshirah the government figures it out by themselves it just takes them a long time

remember, meshirha is useless if there is nothing to report to bad that your community has so much to report it is disgraceful

amazing how many frummas can go to the mountains drive fancy cars wear expensive cloths yet collect welfare section 8 and food stamps

it is not secret every tom dick and harry knows it

[Deremes]

"NK is also evil in promoting hatred and violence towards other jews.
Posted by: ah-pee-chorus | August 30, 2011 at 03:39 PM"

Hu? And FM with its commentators against ANYTHING Orthodox Jews does,promotes...what?

[Deremes]

"amazing how many frummas can go to the mountains drive fancy cars wear expensive cloths yet collect welfare section 8 and food stamps
Posted by: seymour | August 30, 2011 at 04:50 PM"

Do you PERSONALLY know someone who does what you claim?

[seymour]

III. ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IN DIVORCE CASES ARE INFREQUENT.

An excellent study on the incidence of sexual abuse in divorce was done by Thoennes and Tjaden of the Association of Family and Conciliation Courts Research Unit in Denver, with funding from the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect. Data was gathered from domestic relations court staff in eight jurisdictions, during a six-month period. Staff in these jurisdictions completed a questionnaire each time there was an allegation of sexual abuse in a custody or visitation dispute. More than 9,000 families in these areas had custody or visitation disputes. Of these 9,000 families, less than 2 percent had allegations of sexual abuse.8

While it is popularly believed that all allegations of sexual abuse in divorce involved the mother accusing the father, that was not the case. Mothers accused biological fathers in only 48 percent of the cases. Stepfathers were accused by mothers in 6 percent of cases. Fathers accused mothers or mother’s new partner in 16 percent of cases and dads accused third parties in another 6 percent of cases. The remainder of accusations were made by third parties.9

Half of the allegations of sexual abuse among the custody/visitation dispute group, overall, were considered founded. In 33 percent of cases, no abuse was believed to have occurred and in 17 percent no determination could be reached.10 These figures are about the same as validation rates for cases reported to child protective agencies.11 Mother’s allegations against father were considered likely to have been accurate in 49 percent of cases and unlikely in 33 percent. Father’s allegations against mother were considered likely in 42 percent of cases and unlikely in 41 percent. The remainder of the cases were indeterminate.12

To get a different view of this issue, consider that approximately 1,000,000 divorces are granted per year. About 600,000 of divorcing couples have minor children, but only about 90,000 have custody disputes.13 If only 2 percent of disputed custody or visitation cases have allegations of sexual abuse, then only about 3 out of every 1,000 divorces involving children have allegations of sexual abuse. This is not an epidemic.

Research in Australia has had similar findings. Allegations of sexual abuse were present in only 1.7 percent of custody or visitation dispute cases.14

In Canada, the hospital records of all children who were seen for suspected physical or sexual abuse were reviewed at a large hospital. In cases where sexual abuse was suspected, children who were involved in custody or visitation disputes had just as much physical evidence of sexual abuse as children who were not the object of a custody or visitation dispute. Interestingly enough, there was evidence of physical battering more often in children who were part of a custody or visitation dispute, than in children who were not.15

The beliefs that false allegations of sexual abuse in divorce are epidemic and that it is mothers who falsely accuse fathers are not supported by good, methodologically sound research.
IV. WHY MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT FALSE ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE IN DIVORCE ARE EPIDEMIC.

A number of articles have been published that purport to prove that many, if not most, allegations of sexual abuse in divorce are false. These articles were based on anecdotal reports of what various clinicians had observed in their private practices. Reports based solely on anecdotal reports cannot be considered as hard science and the findings cannot be used to prove anything about the overall rates of false allegations in divorce or any other situation. These anecdotal reports are merely what a few individuals saw in a non-representative sample of cases. They tell us nothing about what is happening in general in our country.

The impression that rates of false allegations of sexual abuse are enormous has been created by a number of psychologists and doctors who have written up a selection of their cases in which all or most described a false allegation of sexual abuse.16 These articles have been frequently referenced in other articles where the limitations of anecdotal case studies have not been mentioned. These anecdotal case studies took on the illusion of being hard science and of being supported by factual findings because they were so frequently referred to. Descriptive case studies are nothing more than a tiny slice of reality that tell us nothing about all of the other cases in existence.

One of the case studies commonly cited is that of Arthur Green. He described five cases, four of which he concluded involved false allegations of sexual abuse.17 Benedek and Schetky described cases involving 18 children referred to them during custody or visitation disputes. They found sexual abuse in only 8 of the children, giving a false accusation rate of 55 percent.18 Schuman described seven cases, all of which he claimed were false accusations.19 Wakefield and Underwager claimed that nearly all allegations of sexual abuse are false. They reported that three-fourths of the cases they had seen had involved false allegations.20

There are some striking similarities in all of these anecdotal reports. All described cases in the private practices of the author. Cases were few in number and there was no reason to believe they were representative of all disputed custody cases. There has been harsh criticism of the work of Underwager and Wakefield21 as well as Green22 among respected social scientists.

A good scientist simply cannot claim that anecdotal case descriptions tell us about the population in general. If I were a forensic psychiatrist or psychologist who had a practice devoted exclusively or almost exclusively to serving those who have been accused of child sexual abuse, and if my criteria for determining that an allegation was false was to accept the declarations of the accused, then I could quite easily arrive at findings that 50 or 75 or even 100 percent of allegations of sexual abuse were false. My findings, however, would never be accepted by good scientists as anything more than a description of the people in my own practice. No good scientist would agree that my findings could tell them anything about all people or about all contested custody cases.

To put it another way, if I were to go to a prison and interview twenty men in maximum security, I might conclude, based on that sample of men, that 50 percent of men are murderers.23

Good samples look at large numbers of people that are likely to represent society in general. The study that found that only two percent of contested custody cases involved allegations of sexual abuse consisted of all of the cases of contested custody and visitation in eight legal jurisdictions situated in several different states. There were 9,000 cases in the sample of contested custody or visitation.24 This is a sample a good scientist can trust. What we see in this sample is very likely to be true in other areas and in the population in general.

The criteria used for sexual abuse are extremely important when doing research. Ralph Underwager never defines his criteria for sexual abuse, but one of his statements might give some insight as to what he might consider sexually abusive. He gave an interview in 1991 to a journal called PAIDIKA, which labels itself as the Journal of Pedophilia. In it, he said: “Pedophiles need to become more positive and make the claim that pedophilia is an acceptable expression of God’s will for love and unity among human beings.”25

[Korbendallas72]

Guest (Naturei Karta shill) - Are you ready for a fresh wave of Zionism from North America? I hope so... because we're all going home. North America is undergoing a slow radioactive contamination from Japan.

[OMG]

Posted by: seymour | August 30, 2011 at 04:55 PM

Good Report, Thank you.

[jancsipista]

deremes- fm promotes peacefull coexistance among jews not like the satmerers who punch each other out cold or the squarers who try to kill thier own , deremes if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen the heat is the truth and not made up fabrications of the fanatics.

[OMG]

Posted by: Deremes | August 30, 2011 at 04:53 PM

FM promotes honesty, while dealing with others. I understand that you are equating FM’s purpose with hate. Sorry, but we disagree.

[Deremes]

OMG,jancsipista,

I haven't laughed as good in quite a while after reading your response heheheheh that FM promotes HONESTY and i suppose PEACE amongst Jews hehehehe.
Going to eat dinner.

[OMG]

Posted by: Deremes | August 30, 2011 at 05:43 PM

I don’t begrudge your laughing.

[mordecai]

I haven't laughed as good in quite a while after reading your response heheheheh that FM promotes HONESTY and i suppose PEACE amongst Jews hehehehe.
Going to eat dinner.

Posted by: Deremes | August 30, 2011 at 05:43 PM

You seem to be killing the messenger because you do not like the message. It is perfectly honest to report, for instance that a yeshiva school bus got bogged down in a flood. You know, as well as I, that NO SCHOOL (none) that is run by a governmental agency would be transporting children in a bus amidst flood from a hurricane. Why the frumma? It may hurt to hear. It may be a message you do not like. But it is an honest message. G-d forbid the children should have drowned.

Reporting this story may be salt in the wounds but maybe also a lesson would be learned. Maybe lives would be saved in the future. And if some children drowned (G-d forbid) would the Rebbe say it was Beshert? Would he indeed learn the lesson. And that is the sad part.

Rubashkin was warned for years. He ignored all critiques. Stories appeared on Rubashkin here on FM but in many other newspapers and blogs. He did not follow the law in keeping with Jeremiah's exhortations.

All of these stories are reports of factual events.

The dishonesty is yours. You seek to obscure, omit, cover-up, deny.

[facts]

Mesirah about moeny is not muttar but about false allegations of child abuse is muttar. you are a real winner.

your one line says it all:

A number of articles have been published that purport to prove that many, if not most, allegations of sexual abuse in divorce are false.

Thanks Seymour. Hoydaas baal din ke'meah eidim domi.

and don't respond to me about the anecdotal crap you made up.

AGAIN SHMARYA OR SEYMOR OR HERSCHEL OR POPE BENDITCT or osama for all i care, FALSE ALLEGATIONS IN A DEMOCRACY ARE MESIRAH WHETHER MONETARY OR OTHERWISE. WOMEN WHO GO TO ARKO'OYS ARE RESHOIM HAVE THE STATUS OF LIARS ANYWAY AND ARE ENTITLED TO FLOAT ON THE HUDSON RIVER.

[seymour]

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 07:07 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about i said that many rovs say in a case of child abuse one must go to the police.

you are stupid a person who is going to make a false accusation is not about to ask a rov
-----------------------------------------------
your comment

A number of articles have been published that purport to prove that many, if not most, allegations of sexual abuse in divorce are false.
-----------
Please provide links to any study that backs you up, how about one study

we all know it happens time to time but because of the 4% that prove to be false we should not mossar the other cases that are true about molestation and give the the molesters a free pass to roam the mikvas

wow you are a molesters best friend Kolco, mondrowitz, and all the others worship people like you

[seymour]

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 07:07 PM

are you stupid or just crazy

show me one post by any person on fail messiah that says it is ok to file or tell authorities about abuse when you know it is false

come on do a search

[OMG]

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 07:07 PM

Get a grip of yourself, stop Fuming at your mouth, like a crazy dog.

[jancsipista]

facts seems to me lost his bearing on reality, raboisay facts went of the deep end.

[seymour]

here is a story that makes the frum look really sane

and from the comments on vin many if not all really believe if you cut a fruit tree a family member will die

The fear of god kept an observant Jewish family from chopping down a despised fruit tree, so it took an act of god — Hurricane Irene’s winds of fury — to answer the prayers of neighbors on a small Midwood block.

On Saturday, Irene huffed and puffed and blew down a giant mulberry tree on E. 27th Street between Avenue I and Campus Road that for years had dropped sticky fruit on neighbors’ cars and littered the sidewalk with a tacky, dark-purple paste that made residents walk in the street to avoid stepping in the mess.

“Everybody hated that tree,” said Ralph Davidson, 73.

Including the people whose property it stood on, who for years refused to take the ax to the behemoth out of fear that god would smite them.

“If you cut down a fruit tree, you can — god forbid — lose a family member,” said homeowner Daniel Roth. “It’s a Jewish thing. People don’t do it.”

To some Jews, custom dictates they not chop down living trees that bear fruit.

But no good deed goes unpunished, and when Mother Nature knocked the tree over, it downed the block’s power lines, leaving the neighbors without electric for 20 hours as the wires sizzled in the street. On top of that (literally) the tree’s remains blocked off their dead end street, pinning neighbors in — and when it tumbled, it took a piece of Roth’s foundation with it, and landed on a parked car in a final act of aggression against its embattled human foes.

“Yes, we wanted it gone — but not this way,” said neighbor George Weill.

On Monday, workers with heavy equipment labored to part the dead tree to free the people, who’ll be happy to see it gone.

“This is the one last annoyance this is causing me — it’s [the tree’s] the last hurrah,” said Roth.

[seymour]

ps the reason for not citting down a fruit is

"When you besiege a city for many days to wage war against it to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by wielding an ax against them, for you may eat from them, but you shall not cut them down" (Deuteronomy 20:19).

how this means any fruit tree in any situation is beyond me. and how it indicates thatb a person will die is beyond me again.

In reality it is simply when the Jews waged war they destroyed everything from their enemies however the torah just says do not destroy the fruit tree since you might need it for food

simple explanation

[flailed]

oh, the painful irony. "od yishama be'arei yehuda uvchutzot yerushalayim..."

[Office of the Chief Rabbi]

If I can go back to the question of the time on the invitation:

When it says "7th hour = 2 o'clock European" I understand that to mean that the seventh halachic hour is 2 PM (actually it will be at 1:42 PM that Shabbat in Jerusalem).

[A Halakhic hour takes the daylight and divides it by 12. See Talmud Berachot, B'roches to the masses].

Candle lighting time is 6:44, so it gives them time for the Huppah, the shtuppah, then the onset of Shabbat, and more eating for Shabbes, since that's probably the one time a week they eat a decent meal.

[Adams]

Tear gas won't help, they should give these sub humans life in prison for these types of shannagins, this and the riots, life in prison, you'll see it will stop.

[facts]

the facts are that anyone who is oyver mesirah goes to gehoinom. the only one who is foaming at the mouth is shmarya who went balistic about his potentially being investigated by the IRS. it is only muttar to go to the police when you are genuinely concerned about safety issues. most of these divorce whores are only concerned about one thing: breaking as many issurim as possible by lying and finding themselves in gehonom as quickly as possible.

I look forward to the day that all you feminists are thrown into a pot of excretement together with yoshka, hitler and arafat for your mesirah.

[seymour]

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 09:10 PM

yes we know but do not care since gehenom is just a figment of your imagination

[Adam Neira]

Human's need language so as to sort the concepts out in their heads, but when a label becomes self-defeating it is a problem. Identity is much deeper than the surface of things. Humans get way too stuck on the superficial. In Cecil Roth's book "A Short History of the Jewish People" published in 1937, 436 pages (Not that "short") he uses the word Palestine to describe the area also known as the Holy Land.

Vexillologically speaking the State of Israel's is a good one. Should flags fly on the Temple Mount ? Nyet, or maybe for only special occasions.

Which of these names suits the 150,000 sq.m. trapezoid platform in the Old City ?

(a) Temple Mount
(b) Noble Sanctuary
(c) House for All Nations
(d) Centre of Unfolding Potential

Which of these names sounds suitable for the athletes representing the area at the 2020 Istanbul Olympic Games ?

(a) Israel/Palestine

(b)Israel/Westbankistan/Settlertown/Gazaville.

(c) There will not be any teams from the area as a nuclear war would have got rid of them all in 2012.

(d) Israstine. (The Gaddafi proposal which sounds like a mouthwash.)

[seymour]

Posted by: OMG | August 30, 2011 at 05:28 PM

thanks

i figure now people can discuss it rationally

but i guess i was mistaken

[Adam Neira]

To Seymour,

Many people are going a little crazy at the moment. So many things are being stirred up in their subconscious and with the geo-political changes people are having trouble getting their bearings. Calm is required. Any subject can be discussed and decided on if people are reasonable and fair. When abuse, slander or violence kicks in it is a problem. Difficult listening is hard to do and that is not an oxymoron.

[Motti]

fuck these neturei karta imbeciles. I wish pain on their genitals

[OMG]

Posted by: facts | August 30, 2011 at 09:10 PM

From your rantings, I surmise, that you are divorced, no wonder, there is no way a female could live with you, let alone copulating with you.

[OMG]

Posted by: seymour | August 30, 2011 at 09:39 PM

Pepole yes, but not *facts*, he has special needs. `

[jancsipista]

facts- you are trully a very very disturbed person go for help the sooner the better di farrikter beheime.

['Yechiel']

Ummm... don't the indians have their reservations and are immune to taxation and some other US laws? What's up with that? How dare they not considet themselves Americans?

[george]

Guest

You are right, I do not know these people, so all I know is what I read. The persons in question appear to belong to the "Hirsch" faction, and following is what wikipedia states:

> Neturei Karta nowadays consists of two branches: a larger and more moderate faction led by Zelig Reuven Katzenellenbogen, and a smaller and more radical faction led by Moshe Hirsch in Jerusalem and by Yisroel Dovid Weiss and Moshe Ber Beck in New York. The latter branch, though it is significantly smaller than the more moderate branch, is more widely known and often referenced to as "Neturei Karta", leading to adherents of the larger and more moderate branch to be subjected to criticism for the actions of the radical camp.

Those names that wikipedia associated with the Hirsch faction are indeed that small radical Iranian-visitors group.

[facts]

"yes we know but do not care since gehenom is just a figment of your imagination" seymor opely admits he is an apikores. he has now eligible to join both YU as rosh yeshiva and the BDA applying normative abnormal haochoh.

AGAIN, POST YOUR INCOME TAXES SHMARYA ONLINE SO THAT WE CAN ORGANIZE FOR A FORENSIC AUDITOR TO CHECK IF YOU ARE PAYING YOUR TAXES ALREADY.

[Raphael Kaufman]

This thread is very confusing. There seems to be an awful lot of comments that have no relation to the original post. What is this whole geschichte between "Facts", Shemarya, Semour, et al about, and what does it have to do with the NK, YMSV'Z? Is it about whether or not it is muttar to masser on the NK because they are not Jews?

[Guest]

Raphael Kaufman,

The NK are Jews as much as you a Jew.

That said, if you have any questions about the NK, please go back and read all my comments on this thread from the beginning.

"facts" and "Shmarya" and "Seymour" are discussing an issue of mesira from other threads, that has nothing to do with this thread.

[Shmarya]

AGAIN, POST YOUR INCOME TAXES SHMARYA ONLINE SO THAT WE CAN ORGANIZE FOR A FORENSIC AUDITOR TO CHECK IF YOU ARE PAYING YOUR TAXES ALREADY.

Posted by: facts | August 31, 2011 at 08:41 AM

As soon as Agudath Israel of America's entire moetzet gedolei hatora rabbis and all its staff, along with every rosh yeshiva and posek in Brooklyn, posts their tax returns, and as soon as every haredi organization (Ohel, Agudath Israel of America, shuls, yeshivas, etc.) post third party forensically audited financials for the past five years, I'll post my financials, too.

And I'll go one step further.

You go to a licensed psychologist who is not frum and who does not practice in or nearby a frum neighborhood, and take the MMPI (newer version). Have it scored by the recognized bonded scoring agency, and then post all of the results online.

When you do that, I'll do the same.

Until then:

1. Confine your posts about and relating to divorce to posts dealing with divorce.

2. Get back on your meds or, if you refused to take them or be evaluated, go back to your doctor or psychiatrist, get a new prescription, and take the meds.

3. Go to counseling/therapy with a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist at least 1x per week.

4. Give your wife the get she wants, and stop torturing her and extorting her.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: Guest | August 30, 2011 at 03:09 PM

If I remember correctly, Hirsch *did* go to Iran and kiss its leader.

[facts]

SHMARYA

JUST A FEW FACTS FOR THE RECORD. NOT ONLY DO I NOT RESPECT THE FAKES AT THE AGUDAH, I THINK THEY ARE VERMIN SO DO NOT MAKE ANY OFFERS TO ME REGARDING THE CORRUPT AGUDAH MOVEMENT.
ALL THE AGUDAH IS INTERESTED IN IS $$$$ AND THEY WILL COZY UP TO THE LOWEST OF THE LOW FOR MULLA.
THEY HAVE SHOWN TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR THE BIGGEST CHATOIM INCLUDING THE MENUVOLIM AT THE BDA JUST FOR A FEW $.
SO DON'T MAKE SOME DISINGENIOUS OFFER TO ME ABOUT THE AGUDAH PEOPLES FINANCES, NO YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO THEM, NOW SHUT UP AND PROVE IT OR YOU ARE FAIR GAME FOR non-mesirah to the IRS BECAUSE WE HAVE A HETTER FROM YOU THAT WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY.
FURTHERMORE

[facts]

I THINK PILLS ARE A JOKE FOR YOU. YOU NEED ELECTRIC SHOCK TREATMENT TO OVERCOME YOUR HATRED STILL LINGERING ON AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS AFTER RUBASHKIN K'OD YOU FOR HIS FAMILY.

GET THE PSYCHOTIC TREATMENT YOU REALLY NEEED.

[jancsipista]

facts-only a hussid can be this stupid as you, vile and full of hate nonstop you better get help before youre hate consumes you
youre lower then an animal a dog is human compared to you.

[seymour]

facts

are you married, divorced, refuse to give you wife a get whats the story.

PS nowhere in the Torah or tanach does it even remotely mentions the afterlife

[facts]

Seymour ever heard of halochoh le'moshe mi'sinai?

Ever heard of the Rambam and his 13 principles?

Ever learned the 1st rashi on oz yoshir?

Hopefully not otherwise you are a full blown apikores?

[Adam Neira]

To Facts,

Wasn't "Ramban and the Thirteen Principles" a cool jazz act from Haight Ashbury in 1968 ?

I'm sure I have their album somewhere. Thanks for reminding me.