More Proof The Lubavitcher Rebbe Was Wrong?

It sure seems that way. An engraved stone found in a network of tunnels under the Old City of Jerusalem shows a menorah that looks nothing like the 'authentic' menorah Chabad's rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, claimed was the true, correct menorah.

I've done many posts on this issue before (most linked at the bottom of this post – read them before you comment), noting that all ancient depictions of the menorah – even those linked to kohanim, priests, who served in the Temple and saw it, look nothing like the Lubavitcher Rebbe's drawing and his claims.

(Click on the links I posted below and you'll see many pictures of these depictions and finds, along with much more information.)

What the Rebbe did is base his fantasy on a clear misreading of the Rambam, whose own drawing is a schematic, not a literal representation of the menorah.

The Rebbe incorrectly understood the Rambam's drawing as literal.

Even so, the Rambam lived 1000 years after the Temple was destroyed, and he did not have the advantage of the many archaeological finds we have today – and that the Rebbe ignored.

Here's an article about the most recent finds followed by links to some of my previous posts on this issue – posts that show 7 branched menorahs, NONE of them looking anything like the Lubavitcher Rebbe's claim:

Glimpse of ancient war in Jerusalem tunnel
Archaeologists present Roman legionnaire's sword and sheath believed to date back to around 70 A.D., when Rome put down Jewish revolt
Associated Press

Archaeologists say artifacts discovered in an ancient drainage tunnel under Jerusalem are left over from war 2,000 years ago.

On Monday archaeologists presented a Roman legionnaire's sword and sheath found in the tunnel late last month. They believe it dates to around 70 A.D., when Rome put down a Jewish revolt, razing the second biblical Jewish Temple and much of the city.

Accounts of the battle say Jewish rebels fled to tunnels in a futile attempt to escape the Romans.

Israel Antiquities Authority archaeologist Eli Shukron says diggers also found clay lamps, pots, and a bronze key. He thinks rebels left many of those items.

The newly excavated tunnel is part of a growing network of subterranean passages under the city.

Update 12:19 pm CDT – I'm adding one of the many posts on the menorah and the Rebbe's error here because too many readers – primarily Chabadniks – seem to have difficulty following the links posted at bottom.

From September 11, 2009:

Ancient Synagogue Found: Among Oldest In World, It May Reveal Secret Lost For 2,000 Years

What secret does this ancient relic hold for today's Jews, especially today's Chabad Jews?

 

One of the Oldest Synagogues in the World was Exposed in the Israel Antiquities Authority Excavation

A synagogue from the Second Temple period (50 BCE-100 CE) was exposed in archaeological excavations the Israel Antiquities Authority is conducting at a site slated for the construction of a hotel on Migdal beach, in an area owned by the Ark New Gate Company. In the middle of the synagogue is a stone that is engraved with a seven-branched menorah (candelabrum), the likes of which have never been seen. The excavations were directed by archaeologists Dina Avshalom-Gorni and Arfan Najar of the Israel Antiquities Authority.

 

The main hall of synagogue is c. 120 square meters in area and its stone benches, which served as seats for the worshippers, were built up against the walls of the hall. Its floor was made of mosaic and its walls were treated with colored plaster (frescos). A square stone, the top and four sides of which are adorned with reliefs, was discovered in the hall. The stone is engraved with a seven-branched menorah set atop a pedestal with a triangular base, which is flanked on either side by an amphora (jars).

 

According to the excavation director, Dina Avshalom-Gorni of the Israel Antiquities Authority, “We are dealing with an exciting and unique find. This is the first time that a menorah decoration has been discovered from the days when the SecondTemple was still standing. This is the first menorah to be discovered in a Jewish context and that dates to the Second Temple period/beginning of the Early Roman period. We can assume that the engraving that appears on the stone, which the Israel Antiquities Authority uncovered, was done by an artist who saw the seven-branched menorah with his own eyes in the Temple in Jerusalem. The synagogue that was uncovered joins just six other synagogues in the world that are known to date to the SecondTemple period”.…

 

The synagogue holds the secret of the Temple Menorah.

 

What did it look like?

 

Does it look like the menorah on the Arch of Titus which depicts the aftermath of the Destruction of the Second Temple?

 

 

 

 

Or does it look like the Rambam's understanding of the menorah?

 

 

Or does it look like the late Chabad-Lubavitch Rebbe's understanding of the Rambam's version of the menorah?

 

 

Or does it look like the menorah on the Hasmonean coin?

 

 

Which menorah does the one found carved in this 2nd Temple-era synagogue resemble?

 

As you can see, the menorah looks a lot like the menorah in the Hasmonean coin:

 

 

 

 

The feet of the menorah from this newly-discovered synagogue are almost identical to the feet of the menorah on the Hasmonean coin. But the synagogue menorah is resting on a square base, and the coin's menorah is not.

 

I think this answers the question raised about the menorah on the Arch of Titus.

 

That menorah has what appears to be a double six sided base, one base resting on top of the other and then the menorah on top of that.

 

If you look closely at both the coin and the synagogue menorahs you can see that the depiction of the feet shows that the menorah had six or eight feet: 

 

1 or 2 pointing left
1 or 2 pointing right
2 pointing forward
2 (unseen) pointing back.

 

Here is what is think took place:

 

The Temple menorah was placed in the Temple on a square base of gold. This may have been an addition during Herod's rule, or it may have been added during the original rebuilding of the Temple after the return of some Jews from Babylonian captivity.

 

Because Hasmonean coins don't show the base, I think it is likely the base was an addition during Herod's time, but it is also possible the hasmoneans – who were kohanim, priests, and who served in the Temple and clearly saw the menorah up close – viewed the base as added decoration, and therefore saw its historical and religious value as being much less than the menorah itself. That could be an alternative explanation for why the base is not depicted on their coins.

 

When the menorah was captured by Titus, it may have been permanently joined to the base or it may have been joined to it with a temporary or semi-permanent join. I believe the latter is more likely because permanently joining the two objects would, in effect, change the biblically-mandated design, something that I find unlikely.

 

That menorah and its base were taken to Rome by Titus, carried by Jews captured in Judea when the Temple was sacked and destroyed.

 

In order to keep the menorah safely together with its base – which may have been viewed by Titus as more impressive and/or by the Jews as being necessary for the honor of the holy objects – the menorah and base were joined together, perhaps by fusing them with gold melted down from other Temple objects or from the Temple treasury. This fusion may have been viewed by the Jews as temporary and therefore permissible and, under the circumstances, desirable. 

 

When the menorah got to Rome, the artist whose sketches (or whose memories) were used as the basis for the Arch of Titus would have seen the six or eight feet of the menorah fused by this additional gold to the base, which could have given this structure a look similar to the structure of what we see depicted on the Arch of Titus.

 

I think this might answer the question of the shape of the base of the menorah in the Arch of Titus.

 

I also believe this find shows clearly that the Rambam's understanding of the menorah's shape is incorrect, as is the late Lubavitcher Rebbe's.

Extensive Proof The Lubavitcher Rebbe Was Wrong:

Ancient Synagogue Found: Among Oldest In World, It May Reveal Secret Lost For 2,000 Years – And Prove The Rebbe Wrong.

The Little Menorah That Didn’t.

The Little Menorah That Didn’t, #2.

The Rebbe And The Menorah.

The Rebbe And The Menorah, 2.

An Early Hanukka Present: The Rebbe and the Menora.

[Hat Tip: Dus Iz Nies.]

Comments

[Shmarya]

And you still didn't answer the first question. Aren't you being not nice???
Acc to you, the rebbe was not nice to you and pushed you away.
What about you???

Posted by: Whyaich | August 09, 2011 at 09:01 PM

Idiot.

I came to the Rebbe about an issue of pekuakh nefesh, saving lives. And I was very nice to him until I he didn't answer my first letter and I found out some of the games he played with other people that asked for help with that same issue. So I wrote a stronger letter. The Rebbe answered. He was rude. But more importantly, he was wrong halakhicly and morally.

And you, being what you are, compare that to me calling someone like you and idiot.

And, again, there is no infallibility in Judaism and no prophesy in Judaism today.

Anyone, no matter who he or she is can be questioned and challenged. That is normative Judaism.

Your Judaism is a cult with no Jewish basis at all.

[Adam Neira]

To Shmarya,

"There is no nevuah (prophesy) today."

Are 100% sure about that ?

Would you bet your life on it ?

Just asking...

[Whyaich]

You know Halacha better than the rebbe??? How do u know his basis for his position???
Who the he'll are you?
Obviously the rebbe had his reasoning why he chose his path.

The rebbe wasn't rude. He answered the way you wrote. I love the way you put it. A strong letter. I would venture to say you wrote the rude letter and the rebbe wrote the strong letter
You idiot!
Challenge by who? By some shmarya. You make me laugh :)

[Adam Neira]

To Whyaich,

Do you belive in the Twelfth Article of Faith and if so do you believe M.M. Schneerson was/is Moshiach ?

Simple answer please.

P.S. Did you know that it is a psychological condition that some people desperate for a father figure will substitute a certain authority figure into their frame of reference and idealise this person as compensation for the lack positive role modelling in early childhood ?

[Adam Neira]

Correction...

"believe" and "lack of positive role modelling"

Wrap on the knuckles for me. Adam, write on the blackboard 100 times. "Thou shalt spell properly and improve one's typing or get a secretary."

[Whyaich]

Adam Neria. I see you are from the same cult as shmarya.
To answer your question:
1. It's not relevant to this topic, we can start another discussion somewhere else.
2. Yes I believe he is moshiach. (please let's start a new place for this discussion)

Your PS Is quite funny. It's true, that's why shmarya has a low self esteem (as evident from his posts and name calling AND from the way he reacted when his letter wasn't answered. Maybe it got lost in the mail.) and that's why he's looking for a fatherly figure. Maybe you can be it. You are a great person albeit in hiding

[Adam Neira]

To Whyaich,

My responses...

(1)I'm sorry to have to tell you but a dead man cannot be Moshiach.

(2)You shouldn't cast judgment on another's self esteem. Pigeonholing people is adolescent behaviour. I'm sure Shmarya could hold his own in most settings.

(3)The father figure thing is off the mark. I am only going to be a father figure to my children, bizrat hashem I am blessed with them in the not too distant future. Instead of a pure patriarchal system of counsel, think friendships based on mutual respect. So the Messianic command structure is not really like a pyramid structure, more like a series of concentric circles even though there are levels of awareness and healing in the world akin to a mountain. Poor leaders also create dependency in their followers. I like people to be able to stand on their own two feet. We all need a bit of help sometimes.

“A friend is someone who helps you up when you're down, and if they can't, they lay down beside you and listen.”

(4)It is true I am hiding a little but I value my freedom more than anything. Fame, power and money are as interesting to me as a dead duck although I do seek influence as it is part of my mission. Unfortunately sometimes one becomes so influential one cannot avoid becoming well known. I think I want to operate from a tropical island somewhere with my girlfriend/wife, an internet connection, an occasional party with friends and a few good books. Northern Section of the Temple Mount as a place for a home amidst the Noble Sanctuary might be a good second choice.

We will see what unfolds...

[Truth Hurts]

The Rebbe has backing from one of the best sources there can be - the Rambam. You don't agree - fine. However, none of us were ever in the Beis HaMikdash so the answer is not clear.

The Rebbe did everything to see that we would have a chance to see the Beis haMikdash.

Shmarya does everything to spread sinas chinam.

Even in this age of redoubled darkness, I know whose side I'm on.

[tudris]

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=36824

[Adam Neira]

To Truth Hurts,

Like those neon blue lights in a fish and chip shop on a summer night the mosquitoes are really buzzing around this discussion. A question for you as well...

Do you think M.M. Schneerson was/is Moshiach ?

Clear answer please. Sitting on the fence is uncomfortable, nu ? It also takes a certain level of intellectual and spiritual courage to abandon one's false beliefs. It is scary to see the clear light of day sometimes but as your name implies, truth does hurt. Now please don't besmirch Maimonides by implying that he would ever agree that Moshiach would come from the realm of the dead.

[Shmarya]

And you still didn't answer the first question. Aren't you being not nice???
Acc to you, the rebbe was not nice to you and pushed you away.
What about you???

Posted by: Whyaich | August 09, 2011 at 09:01 PM

Please.

I answered your "questions" twice.

That you are too dull understand the answer speaks poorly of you and those who educated you – including your dead rebbe.

The Judaism you practice is foreign to the Judaism practiced throughout history through the time of the Rishonim.

But you're way too ignorant to know that, or to understand your theology is as great (or greater) an innovation than the Reform Movement's is.

Jews do not have or need intermediaries. No one is infallible. No one is perfect. And no one is beyond criticism or questioning.

That is what Judaism teaches. What you practice is not Judaism.

[Shmarya]

You know Halacha better than the rebbe??? How do u know his basis for his position???
Who the he'll are you?
Obviously the rebbe had his reasoning why he chose his path.

The rebbe wasn't rude. He answered the way you wrote. I love the way you put it. A strong letter. I would venture to say you wrote the rude letter and the rebbe wrote the strong letter
You idiot!
Challenge by who? By some shmarya. You make me laugh :)

Posted by: Whyaich | August 09, 2011 at 10:11 PM

There are halakhot of pekuakh nefesh. The Rebbe violated them.

Who am I to question the Rebbe?

I am a Jew, and as a Jew, I have and had every right to do so.

Under halakha, the Rebbe had to cite his sources. But he didn't. He just lied.

He lied to me, to other activists – and even to Rabbi Moshe Feinstein.

[whyaich]

agin shmaraya you are such a first class idiot. How do you know he violated halacha when you dont know halacha.
you dont know halacha better than the rebbe so please dont base your position on halacha.

as for your ultra smart comment of "Jews do not have or need intermediaries. No one is infallible. No one is perfect. And no one is beyond criticism or questioning"
What about the first leader Moshe Rabeinu??????????????
The yidden asked him to be the intermediary between them and G-d by har sinai.

As for questioning Moshe, i recall a passage in the bible (correct me if i am wrong) '...Bechol Beisi Ne'eman Hu" ( Hashem scolded Moshe's brother and sister for questioning Moshe's judgement)

YOU WRITE:
"Who am I to question the Rebbe?

I am a Jew, and as a Jew, I have and had every right to do so.
Again you have not answered the question. you just said i am a jew...please explain to me the reasoning. It's like someone goes and steals, and then when asked why he says b/c i am jewish...that's not an explanation. I mean i hear the words but there is "0" comprehension on my part, maybe it's me, or maybe it's just you, that don't want to explain it to me.
Why do you have the right?

[whyaich]

To Adam Neria:
1. A Dead man cannot be moshiach? where do you get that from?

2. You say B'izrat Hashem you will be a father in the near future with your girlfriend? why do you mix G-d and girlfriends together?

I really like your fantasies of becoming popular one day... :)

You know, there is a saying 2 ways:
"Dont be so closed minded"
"Dont be so closed minded about being open minded"

You say i am in a cult, I say you are in a cult ... prove to me otherwise.

[whyaich]

to shmarya and Adam Neria:

To add fuel to the fire:

Who said the Rebbe is Dead???

Do either you recall the Gemara that speaks of Rebbi, after he passed away (say it with a little more respect for someone) would come home to his wife on friday night and make Kiddush for her?
And as Shmarya always so lovingly brings Halakha, Only one that is obligated in a mitzva can moitze (the english word slips my mind, but i am sure you guys can translate) someone else.
And only living people are obligated to in the mitzvos.

So tell me how did Rebbi Make kiddush for his wife on friday night?

[Shmarya]

agin shmaraya you are such a first class idiot. How do you know he violated halacha when you dont know halacha.
you dont know halacha better than the rebbe so please dont base your position on halacha.

as for your ultra smart comment of "Jews do not have or need intermediaries. No one is infallible. No one is perfect. And no one is beyond criticism or questioning"
What about the first leader Moshe Rabeinu??????????????
The yidden asked him to be the intermediary between them and G-d by har sinai.

As for questioning Moshe, i recall a passage in the bible (correct me if i am wrong) '...Bechol Beisi Ne'eman Hu" ( Hashem scolded Moshe's brother and sister for questioning Moshe's judgement)

YOU WRITE:
"Who am I to question the Rebbe?

I am a Jew, and as a Jew, I have and had every right to do so.
Again you have not answered the question. you just said i am a jew...please explain to me the reasoning. It's like someone goes and steals, and then when asked why he says b/c i am jewish...that's not an explanation. I mean i hear the words but there is "0" comprehension on my part, maybe it's me, or maybe it's just you, that don't want to explain it to me.
Why do you have the right?

Posted by: whyaich | August 10, 2011 at 08:00 AM

~~~~~~~~~~~~

to shmarya and Adam Neria:

To add fuel to the fire:

Who said the Rebbe is Dead???

Do either you recall the Gemara that speaks of Rebbi, after he passed away (say it with a little more respect for someone) would come home to his wife on friday night and make Kiddush for her?
And as Shmarya always so lovingly brings Halakha, Only one that is obligated in a mitzva can moitze (the english word slips my mind, but i am sure you guys can translate) someone else.
And only living people are obligated to in the mitzvos.

So tell me how did Rebbi Make kiddush for his wife on friday night?

Posted by: whyaich | August 10, 2011 at 08:10 AM

These comments by whyaich should serve as a warning to all Jews that Chabad is no longer practicing Judaism.

Now to answer your points:

1. If you think what the Rebbe did is justified by halakha, please explain how.

Of course, you won't be able to that.

2. Moses is in a different category than all the prophets, judges and kings who came after him. Even so, the reason Jews asked for Moses to be the intermediary (of sorts) was because they could not see God and live – but Moses could.

Even so, prayers, sacrifices, etc. did not have to go through Moses to reach God.

After that time, there are no intermediaries allowed.

And, as I pointed out above, there is no prophesy since the destruction of the First Temple.

2. Judaism allows and encourages questioning of religious leaders. Rabbis who decide halakha must present their sources and their reasoning and must be able to withstand challenges to them.

A rabbi of a community can rule on communal customs and on laws that impact everyone, and generally those rulings must be followed.

Indeed, one of the halakhic complaints against the hasidic movement was that it set up its own prayer rooms in defiance of rabbinical rulings and clear halakha.

Hasidim violated halakha in that and many other ways, and challenged the authority of the existing rabbis.

But Mendel Schneerson was not a posek. He did not decide Jewish law. In fact, in his letter to me he states that.

When I challenged the Rebbe in my letter to him, he lied. He did not deal with the halakhic points. He cited no sources.

You don't know this because you're poorly educated and in a cult, but when the Frierdiker Rebbe spoke in 770, he was regularly interrupted by hasidim who questioned him and challenged him.

This behavior was also common in Litvish yeshivas and in YU.

3. The Rebbe is dead. We don't paskin from aggaditah and we don't generally interpret it literally.

Moses wasn't 15 feet tall. Yehuda Nasiah is dead. So is the Rebbe.

[whyaich]

1. I did not claim to know how the rebbe is justified by halahka, all i asked you is: who are you? do you know so much halahka?

2. Please explain how moses was different from all other prophets. not only in his level in prophecy but in his position and job. As far as i know G-d appointed Joshua to take moses place...

I dont recall saying sacrafices go through Moses, at least we agree on something.

Reagrding the Preivous rebbe, i am actually well aware of this.
Were you around to know what those questions were about?
How were those questions asked? Were they asked with a tone if you don't satisfy me with a good answer i will forever damn you?
You also fail to mention how the Chassidim of the Previous rebbe gave up their lives for the Rebbe, just a small point to see how they were given over to him.

Please do not ridicule my education.

3. i never claimed otherwise, i added fuel to your fire.
Can Moshiach come from someone that is dead? If not please cite your source.

4. Who says Moses wasn't 15 feet tall?

[Shmarya]

Please.

You can't explain or cite any halakhic justification for what the Rebbe did.

You are ignorant of halakha which clearly states that Moses was and is different from all prophets.

I ridicule your education and your intelligence – and I will continue to do so.

Moshiach cannot come from the dead. The Rambam is very clear about this. Look in the uncensored version of Hlikhot Melachaim.

Moses could not be 15 feet tall because it is physically impossible. The human skeleton cannot support that much weight. Bones break and joints give out. People that approach 8 feet tall have massive physical problems, become crippled at very early ages, and then die young because their hearts cannot handle pumping blood for so much body mass.

No Litvish rabbi of any note says the midrash saying Moses was 15 feet (or 18 feet) tall is literally true. No Modern Orthodox rabbi of any note does, either. And the Rambam is very clearL if science shows something in aggaditah (or even in the Torah itself) cannot be literally true, we have the obligation to ACCEPT THAT SCIENCE and interpret the aggaditah (or the Torah itself) allegorically.

Now toddle off to 770 little shoteh, and bow down to the empty chair of your dead idol.

[whyaich]

As I clearly stated before i cannot justify or need to justify the Rebbe.
My question was and still is, who are you to Question such a great torah giant??

You didn't answer my point, i actually stated that he was diffrent in the parentheses but you fail to see that. He was different in prophecy.
In addition, even if he is different, does that make the future leaders of the Jews not intermediaries? was Joshua not the intermediary between G-d and the jews?

I knew you would bring the Rambam :)
in this article itself you say you don't hold of him and now you cite him as your source :)))))
What a hypocrite, low life!
You don't adhere to torah and mitzvoth and you bring them as your proofs, what a low life.

Moses can't be 15 feet tall???? Can people live till 180, or 969? Maybe things changed?
OH right, the bible is no proof for you, or is the bible not literal????

Please tell me know, how old is the world according to you? Does the rambam hold it's a million or a billion years old.

Your statements are so full of hot air, and so easy to expose, I am glad you are allowing me to show everyone what you are all about.

It's all on your personal hate filled adgenda. (As we can also see from Todays post on the Shliach in Ecuador, Do you mention one nice thing about him??? about how he gave up his life to live there???
And you post a story that has no source and not verifiable to the public? All it is, is slander....)

I don't bow to an empty chair, nor do i idolize the Rebbe, Chas Ve'shalom.

[Shmarya]

You are a complete shoteh.

Process: if you can't explain the Rebbe's halakhic reasoning or state what it is, then you cannot attack me for challenging the Rebbe or saying the Rebbe was wrong, because you clearly have no idea what he held and why.

Joshua was not an intermediary between G-d and the Jews.

We have bones from men who lived 3300 years ago and they're no different from the bones of men who live today.

The Rambam did not pasken on the shape of the menorah, and his drawing is really a schematic, not a literal depiction of it.

Even so, one can reject one halakhic opinion of a rabbi but accept another. So, for example, we almost never hold like Rashi, but sometimes we do (waiting six ours after meat to eat milk, for example).

The Rambam's Hilkhot Melachim is largely unchallenged by other Rishonim. And the Rebbe whom you worship very famously said that when no Rishonim argue on the Rambam, then the Rambam's halakha is what we all follow.

Rishonim did argue on his drawing of the menorah, which anyway was not a pesak din.

But they did not argue on the section of Hilkhot Melachim that rules out dead messiahs. There fore that is the halakha.

Your rebbe is dead. You are a shoteh. Go worship your dead idol.

[whyaich]

lol...a shoteh is you

1. I am attacking you for being an ignoramous in jewish law and nowhere close to even touching on the Rebbe's knowledge and yet you challege him. It's like you would challege einstien on the theory of relativity and say i am a shoteh for questioning how you can argue with einstein. any idiot would question you, you would be a fool to argue with einstein unless you are an authority on a subject.

Who has bones? WE???? you have skeletons? Scientists?? they are the ones that claim to read bones that claim the world is billions of years old, in this area i cannot trust them, excuse me.

How do you know the intention of the Rambam???? If his drawing was specific or not? His son says that it is specific, in alachson - angle (Straight).
Rishonim can argue with the Rambam, i never said not, and i know there are others that disagree, that's not the point. The point is firstly maybe change the title, the Rambam was wrong? and also Rishonim can argue, not you.

You say you can reject the opinion of one Authority and accept another, that was not my point any idiot knows that, as evident from the fact that you knew it, my point is that you use opinions as you see fit, you like it you take it, you don't like it, you trash it.
Besides who are you to accept or reject Great scholars opinions? Maybe you are some hidden saint like adam neria? Please tell me more.

[Shmarya]

Again, you're a shoteh gamur.

I've clearly written why the Rebbe was was wrong. All the information is linked above and is clear – and it comes with pictures as part of the proof.

But you're too foolish to read any of that or understand it if someone read it to you.

Your Rebbe was wrong about many things. This was one of them.

And you cannot win an argument with circular reasoning. You can't say, "The Rebbe has to be right because he's rebbe, therefore everyone who disagrees with him has to be wrong."

That's an idiotic, un-Jewish argument. It makes no sense. And it proves nothing.

God gave us minds to use and the ability to reason to use it.

Judaism is not a cult. Sadly, Chabad is.

Now toddle off.

[A E ANDERSON]

"... the Rebbe was a jerk."

Shmarya,

Finally, Shmarya's true colours come out.

For all Mr Shmarya might fault Rebbe Schneerson, he was a decent, gracious, well-mannered man who did not speak of people in the same gutter terms that Shmarya likes to use with anybody who dares disagree with him.

To Shmarya, we are all 'liars" and "jerks.' And so is the Rambam, it now seems for having a deah with which the Rebbe agrees.

It's nice to be in such august company.

[A E ANDERSON]

Could this fixation on Rebbe Schneerson be a manifestation of OCD on the part of the blog owner?

Any comments from those in the psych community?

[Shmarya]

Please.

Look what the Rebbe did to Rabbi Rivkin, or to an NRP pol who would not follow the Rebbe's orders, or to anyone who disagreed with him or questioned him – unless he thought he could get big money from them for Chabad, in which case he tempered his anger.

If you treated the Rebbe like a demigod, he was nice to you.

Otherwise, look out.

To those people who dared to challenge him, to question his behavior or his lies, the Rebbe was most certainly a jerk.

But you never had the balls to do it.

[Shmarya]

Could this fixation on Rebbe Schneerson be a manifestation of OCD on the part of the blog owner?

Any comments from those in the psych community?

Posted by: A E ANDERSON | Auckland, New Zealand | August 10, 2011 at 06:11 PM

Idiot.

You're a person with a long, years long record of leaving asinine, deranged and illogical comments that ignore facts and often logic.

You do it over and over and over again, making the same factual omissions, the same errors – and often the same lies.

On the other hand, I almost never post about the Rebbe, and when I do it almost always relates to a topical event – in this case, the etched menorah from 1950 years ago found in Jerusalem.

You're a sick man and a dishonest man.

And your time expressing your illness here is about to end.

[Yair Davidiy]

More than a decade ago a picture was published in the Israeli Press of an etching in stone found near the Western Wall of a 7-branched menorah with straight branches.
It was dated to the Second Temple Period.

This was well-known at the time and was widely publicized.

A quick Google Search however failed to show any remembrance of this finding?

[Adam Neira]

To Whyaich

Again...Did you know that it is a psychological condition that some people desperate for a father figure will substitute a certain authority figure into their frame of reference and idealise this person as compensation for the lack positive role modelling in early childhood ?

You have expressed so much here with these posts. I think if you read what you and others have written you will have a shift in your worldview in a few weeks time.

To A.E.Anderson,

Slanderers were cut down in First Temple times. Perhaps as at 2011/5771 we have become a little too PC. Suggesting someone's well reasoned views are a result of a pathological mental condition is slanderous. I have read some of your comments. I think you have reached a dead end in your conceptual realm and need some new information to update frame of reference. Cognitive dissonance is scary, and some people are quite happy to stay put on a certain conceptual ledge. Takes courage to inquire and question one's assumptions. Shmarya probably shouldn't call M.M.Schneerson a jerk but we are all allowed to vent. Calling someone a jerk is far less of a problem than your mental health aside.

To Yair Davidiy,

Can you post proof. I generally find if I remember an important fact that I can dig out the truth. I quite enjoy being a detective/archaeologist.

[Chicago Sam]

What else would one expect from a man who believes the sun revolves around the earth? The rebbe's anti-science stance is peculiar and pretty strange. If Maimonides would have had access to modern archaeological data, would he not have endorsed science over the superstitious attitudes of Rabbi Schnersohn, who preferred not to be challenged with the facts?

[Leible]

You write, "The Rebbe incorrectly understood the Rambam's drawing as literal." The Rambam's son, R' Avrohom (perhaps slightly more aware of his father's sketch than you) writes, "The six candles... extend from the body of the Menorah..in a straight line (b'yosher)as my father drew it, and not in a curved manner as others have drawn it." The menorahs found in digs do not present any evidence to the contrary as they are likely depicting other menorahs that were in the courtyard of the Temple- look at the Al-Hanisim prayer for Chanukah that mentions these other menorahs. You notice that there's no reliefs or depictions of the Show Bread table or the Mizbeach- it's stands to reason that there's none of the Menorah on the inside of the Heichal. The books that claimed the Ramabams's figure is not to be taken literally did not have access to R' Avrohom's comments and likely would not have misinterpreted the sketches had they been privy to his writings. I hope this email doesn't get you going on another site called FailedRambam.com May I be so bold as to suggest that you channel some of your venom towards real problems such as murderous Arabs- just a suggestion.

[Shmarya]

What you fail to understand is that even menorah depictions made painted or mosaiced while the Temple still stood and owned by kohanim show curved branches as do ALL extant depictions EVER found.

And there is no Jewish tradition like the one you state – that was made up to defend the Rebbe's craziness.

And there are depictions of the Showbread.

The mizbeyach was seen by hundreds of thousands of people, but it was not a national symbol. It was basically the same as the altars found throughout the Middle East.

It isn't clear if the Rambam's son discussed the menorah with his father or if he was just defending his understanding of the drawing.

Either way, the Rambam lived 1000 years after the Temple was destroyed.

He never saw the menorah or these ancient depictions of it, and his opinion on its shape means nothing.