Levi Aron Fit To Stand Trial

Updated. Confessed murderer of Leiby Kletzky pleads not guilty. Insanity defense still possible. Move for change of venue likely.

 

Update 11:55 am CDT – Here is a summary of what took place in court today:

1. Levi Aron’s attorneys are still considering an insanity defense.

2. “He understands the nature of the charges and the proceedings and can assist in his defense. [Being found competent to stand trial] is not a rendering on sanity or insanity.…We believe him to have some psychiatric disorders,” Aron’s attorney Pierre Bazile said after today’s hearing. Jennifer McCann, another of Aron’s attorneys, added that it could take two months for psychological experts to evaluate him.

3. Aron’s next court appearance is scheduled for Sept. 19.

4. Bazile and McCann said they will request a change of venue from Brooklyn then. “He may not be able to get a fair trial in Brooklyn because the community’s rancor has been riled, it has been so stirred up against the defendant,” Bazile said.

5. McCann told reporters that this case “was no different than the D.W.I.’s and the traffic tickets and the other murder cases. They are defendants, they have rights and we are here to defend them.” The crowd made up of ultra-Orthodox observers and others, reacted with shock to that statement and challenged McCann. “Is it more emotional, more difficult because of the evidence?” McCann answered. “Absolutely. This case isn’t easy for us to handle, either, but his rights are the same. When I defend those rights, I defend yours, too.”

Comments

[miracalism]

sick fuck

[Chaim]

Why did he take his Kippa off? Is he no longer orthodox??

[Stan]

@ least he has a healthy 3 weeks beard going

[maven]

They wouldn't let him wear a baseball hat so that people couldnt tell he was Jewish *snicker*

[dh]

Being fit for trial doesn't mean he's not, as you so articulately put it. It just means he has an understanding of the system well enough that he can work with his attorneys in his defense, which will be, guess what?

If people don't stop calling other people 'sick fuck' maybe they wouldn't mind taking their medication and seeking help.

What a deep thinker you are.

[A. Nuran]

There goes his last chance of avoiding prison assuming he lives to the end of his trial.

[Hakham Yosef Haim]

Levi Aron is better off pleading guilty and trying to make a plea bargain that he will be eligible for parole in 25 years and even if he won't be eligible to get such a good plea bargain and only be eligible for parole in 100 years when he will be 136 years old, he is still better off spending the rest of his life in jail than spending the rest of his life in a mental hospital because mental hospitals imprison both the inmate's body and the inmate's brain by giving the inmatedrugs to alter the inmate's behavior, jails and prisons just imprison the inmate's body and don't force the inmates to take psychiatric drugs unless the inmate request to see a psychiatrist.

[Eliezer]

I read that this man was born
to a Shiksa. his mother was
of Italian blood but he was
adopted as a baby.

[seymour]

I read that this man was born
to a Shiksa. his mother was
of Italian blood but he was
adopted as a baby.

Posted by: Eliezer | August 04, 2011 at 11:28 AM

stop the BS

he is a YID not secular not reform but frum

get over it

[R. Wisler]

You obviously were born of a psychologically disturbed Khazar whore Eliezer!

[Ah-poshitter-yid]

to Hakahm Yosef Chaim,

I have personal knowledge of the people you refer to. The individual you mentioned is nebach sick and most likely suffering from schizophrenia. But you have a lot of nerve posting posting such personal matters here on FM. Shame on you!

[Note from siiteowner – I deleted that comment and banned him. He's clearly mentally ill himself, and is a troll at any rate.]

[dh]

"He's clearly mentally ill himself,".... aw, come on. Let's not make it sound like we're calling someone a name when we say things like this. It does sound as though there is some delusional thinking, experience with psychiatric involuntary commitments... but if we use a diagnosis as a pejorative, then what are we? Mental illness in and of itself is nothing wrong. It should not be an accusation. Nearly all the great leaders of the free world and scientists suffered from mental illness. Like Churchill, who was the first to understand what was becoming the Holocaust, Newton, Lincoln, and on and on and on. G-d made the mentally ill just as he made all of you critical geniuses.

[Dovit]

eliezer, what a disgusting comment.

[Yehuda S]

Change of venue from Brooklyn? Here's a few choices: Monsey, KGH, Far Rockaway, Riverdale, Enough? Lets be fair. There is not a breathing person who could find this person not guilty.

[Stan]

whichever moron said he's better off in jail than mental hosp obviously has no clue what jail inmates due to child molesters &/or child killers: they rape them repeatedly, beat them, and generally make their jail lives even more miserable than it already is. he's better off having his mind and body taken from him in mental hosp. he should plead guilty to save his old man the money + save Leiby's family the addl anguish

[dh]

That's what they said about Casey Anthony and O.J. Simpson.

[Stan]

Anthony & Simpson much different - only circumstantial evidence in those cases + the defendants didnt admit to killing the victims in a panic. Nor did they have the victims' feet in their freezers & bloody knives in their kitchens

[King of the FRUMAAAAAAA, it is not called frum]

"he is a YID not secular not reform but frum

get over it"

From the Daily News:
The suspect, who is Jewish, also told cops he doesn't keep kosher. He was hungry and told police a meal from McDonald's would be fine. Aron eventually settled on Chinese food.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/08/04/2011-08-04_levi_aron_accused_of_killing_and_dismembering_8yearold_leiby_kletzky_pleads_not_.html

[DF]

To Chaim and Seymour:

It seems Levy Aron doesn't care too much about Kosher food:

"Detective asked defendant if he wanted something to eat. Defendant said "yes". Detective asked if he wanted something kosher. Defendant said "No, I eat anything". Detective suggested McDonald's or Burger King. Defendant stated Mcdonald's was fine. Detective stated that Chinese food was quicker. Defendant agreed."

Quote from here: http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/levi_aron_disclosure.pdf

And lets not forget what his Tennessee wife looked like... short pants, smoking etc... Not the sort of woman a "frum" person will marry.

So Seymour: How about you get over the fact that you don't have another frum jew to attack?

[Shmarya]

He davened three times a day and was seen in shuls all around BP, Midwood and Kensington on Shabbat.

I think you have to understand that at times of severe distress – like murdering a child, cutting him into pieces and then getting caught by police – people do weird things.

He may have been trying not to look frum because of the chillul Hashem.

Or he may have lost his mind.

The point is, what he ate an dhow he acted then doesn't prove anything.

[in the know]

he is a YID not secular not reform but frum

get over it"

From the Daily News:
The suspect, who is Jewish, also told cops he doesn't keep kosher. He was hungry and told police a meal from McDonald's would be fine. Aron eventually settled on Chinese food.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/08/04/2011-08-04_levi_aron_accused_of_killing_and_dismembering_8yearold_leiby_kletzky_pleads_not_.html

Posted by: King of the FRUMAAAAAAA, it is not called frum | August 04, 2011 at 02:38 PM
========================================
I know plenty of kj yolis and boro park yolis who dress the dress and walk the walk and eat in burger king . whats your point

[afewthoughts]

Neither does davening 3 times a day make him frum. Why is it important to classify him as frum?

Isn't one the points of this site to expose the inconsistencies within the Orthodox community? Aren't you looking for people who claim to be good frum Jews yet violate the ethics and laws of the religion?

Is Orthodox Judaism at fault or the people who purport to be members and then disgrace themselves and it's name by committing heinous acts?

Based on what you experienced with Chabad I understand the frustration and desire to not allow coverups in the community. But does it mean that Orthodox Judaism is a flawed philosophy and practice? Or is it just fraught with too many poor examples?

[Aliza T.]

This kind of bullshit is why i left the retarded frum community; who gives a damn if he's "frum" or keeps kosher. He MURDERED a child!!! he's a sick murderer no more no less. he obviously isn't about to be concerned with eating kosher!(what is sickening however, was the comment that his mother isn't jewish, that's pure, undiluted nazism saying that being born jewish is better, so of course you couldn't kill someone.)

[DF]

Shmarya

Answer these question honestly:

Do "typical frum Jews" marry the sort of woman he married in Tennessee?

Do "typical frum Jews" post pictures of themselves with no beard or yalmukah?

Do "typical frum Jews" when offered Kosher food say "No, I eat anything"?

A detective asked him about his religion and he answered "he was trying to get back to Judaism" (Thats from the same document where the kosher food quote came from)

Sure this guy hung around a frum neighborhood and the fact that he went to shul sickens me but you know he was not "Hasidic" and he was not "ultra-orthodx". He was barely orthodox - at best he kept that appearance but did not live that life 24/7/365.

And lets say he was a frum Jew in and out... I still never get your point...

Look "frum Jews" commit horrible crimes!.... OK... So? Whats your point? Non Jews with no religious upbringing commit horrible crimes too.

There are sick people in this world and they come in all shapes and sizes.

[Shmarya]

Posted by: DF | August 04, 2011 at 04:41 PM

Do typical frum Jews use prostitutes?

Do they run mortgage scams?

Commit mail fraud?

Wire fraud?

Stock fraud?

Steal money from their poor employees?

Do they fleece poor illiterate peasants out of their life savings?

People who have done all of these things are leading members of haredi communities.

Some have published sefarim and are even published by…ArtScroll.

Levi Aron grew up frum. He went to yeshiva. He worked in the community, davened on Shabbos in several different shuls and was known as a frum person.

He married a girl less frum than he is?

So what?

It's not like he had many choices in the frum community, and he has no halakhic obligation to marry a haredi girl.

On the other hand, the people I mentioned above have the halakhic obligation not to steal.

But they're all still considered frum and even chashuv.

[DF]

Shmarya in your estimation what percentage of "frum Jews" are kind, decent, hard working upright citizens? Just give me an idea of what you believe.

Also I would like to like to know - even if he was a typical frum jew - what does that say?

Is someone who grows up frum more likely to go on to kill and dismember children?

When you reveal things that are not spoken about on other sites - your site is wrote something.

But when you run around screaming about how nasty and bad frum people are - you just sound like someone who has some personal issues with frum people.

Do "frum" people commit crimes? Yes. Do non-relgious people commit crimes? Yes.

So should I make a blog with posts such as this: "Atheist robs bank at gun point"?

What in the world is your point?

[dh]

DF, do you think the defense could cite the same sort of 'non frummish' behavior of Aron as an example of his state of mind when he gave the confession? It could be the Frummish Fermish theory of getting a confession thrown out.

[sara maimon]

Of course Levi Aron should get a change of venue. Even the Brooklyn DA visited the victims parents and promised to take a personal involvement to pursue the case to the max. His chances for fair trial are low here. NOTE: No one, not he either, is claiming he didn't do it. He's either pleading insanity or trying to get the minimum sentence possible under the law.

[dh]

Or he'll get his confession thrown out and the State will be forced to make a plea. Personally, I think he will like jail. It will appeal to his sense of organization, solitude and psychosis. He will fade away down the looking glass. And then we will have to find someone else to hate because he either is or is not orthodox. And next time everyone will say that the orthodox self segregation either is or is not the cause because, hey, it hasn't happened since that nut in Boro Park - what was his name again?

[anonymouse]

Just got off the phone with my mom. she's convinced that Levi Aron wasn't from a 'regular' family but rather a Russian immigrant. Another cousin of mine (also from boro park) claims he's a sephardi. on Israeli message boards he's been labeled a 'baal teshuva'...yet another moron is spreading a rumor that he's the son of a catholic italian mother and his real name is 'Dewopa' (no such name in italian). basically the FRUMMA are unable, nay unwilling to admit that the murderer came from their own midst.

I know the Arons, they are neither Italian, nor Russian, nor baal teshuva, nor Sephardi, they are a regular (relatively) 'litvish' family from Kensington (with relatives in Lakewood and other haredi centers). both Levi and his father attended Torah Vodaas (do a search and you'll find Levi Aron's class from 1985). Levi also attended the now defunct Yeshiva Bais Isaac Zvi in boro park, that was once headed by Rabbi Helberg.

hopefully the haredim can PROCESS all that....

[shish]

Also I would like to like to know - even if he was a typical frum jew - what does that say?

What in the world is your point?

Posted by: DF | August 04, 2011 at 05:39 PM

Moron, the entire "point" of this blog is to broadcast the many ways that the frum community is, as a general rule:

1) hypocritical
2) exploitative
3) opportunistic
4) repressive of dissidents
5) intolerant of and condescending to outsiders
6) monolithically interested in their own welfare to the exclusion of non-Haredi and non-jewish communities
7) misogynistic
8) biggoted
9) arrogant (believing their constituents are less susceptible to misbehavior)
10) completely unwilling to admit or rectify any of these pervasive tendencies

The Levy Aron case highlights points 9 and 10.

By broadcasting these tendencies of the Ultra-Orthodox communities, this blog, ultimately, can serve to reverse point 10. Once point 10 is acknowledged by the Ultra-Orthodox communities, the other points mentioned above can eventually be addressed and rectified.

Atheists do not need a blog to broadcast their misbehavior because as a community, they are not guilty of the above tendencies.

You're a moron for not realizing this, and the fact that you are mystified that the readers of this blog "care" that Levy Aron is frum points to your violation of point 10 above.

Instead of criticizing those who criticize your community, how about being a trailblazer and start doing things to heal the pathology rampant in your diseased synagogues and homes.

However, before doing anything to heal your community, of course, be sure to get a heter from your local rabbi.

Dufus.

[Morris the Katz]

DF is right. Shmarya goes overboard, and has turned his blog into a hatefest of all things ultra-orthodox. Just remove the word "Haredi" or "Orthodox" from some of his posts and you have the Internet version of Der Stuermer, written and maintained by a Jew, no less.

There's a big difference between pointing out intolerence in say, New Square than there is in putting up a headline that "Charedi Man Arrested for Molesting Child." The first is a direct result of religious intolerance, the latter, an attempt to smear ultra-orthodox Jews. There's no evidence that child abuse is any more or less rampant in an ultra-Orthodox community than elsewhere, and you don't have to be frum to molest a kid.

[shish]

@morris the katz,

You may be right that child abuse is just as rampant in Haredi communities as it is in non-Haredi communities (I don't know the statistics, so I can't say for sure). However, the difference between Haredi communities and most other non-Haredi communities is that the Haredim:

1) do not acknowledge the prevalence of child abuse within its communities, and

2) more distressingly, refuse to take the same meaningful steps to prevent child abuse that most other communities have taken. On the contrary, we find that Haredi rabbis tend to cover up instances of child abuse.

Given these two factors that distinguish the Haredi community from other communities, it is actually very important to highlight that Levy Aron functioned within a Haredi community. As such, it should serve as a wake-up call to the Haredi community to address point 2 above. It is thus critical that Shmarya continue to put up headlines like ""Charedi Man Arrested for Molesting Child".

The fact that you think this blog even remotely resembles Der Sturmer points to your complete inability to distinguish rabid and violent antisemitism from legitimate and necessary critique of a subgroup within Judaism (i.e. Haredim). Your flippant analogy to Der Sturmer is not only wrongheaded but disturbingly offensive.

[Tzivia]

For a brief moment, little Leiby's disappearance and death united us.Now, these hateful postings??
Let's stop this now and work on our own middos,please.